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So we go from F1 engines to 25 dump trucks.....
Where did I CLEARLY say I had one or both?
..." I find that AMS customers are very open minded, vs M1 customers."...
Another good strategy, dis M1 customers.
..."Yes the Retail price of 11.49 for 0w-50 sounds steep, but when you buy pallets of 200l drums the price is the same or cheaper,"...
Of course, most folks need 200L drums! Oh by the way make that a pallet!?
Lets see @.85 qt or 3.22 liter per OCI, @ 20,000 mile OCI... this drum will last 1,242,236 miles. How many drums to a pallet?
You might have better luck with your approach if you sell to the tuner set. Most seem ok spending 17.69 x more, when 1 will do
Once the moderators and AMS guys saw how much hoopala there was over ENEOS, excitement of the new cool interesting products, that no one else has.
They re-nigged our contract with a 10x increase for sponsorship, Thats the BS in talking about.
And the mud you think im slinging is well known in the industry, and is an industry wide practice. Most oil blenders offer PPB - even Nippon oil, BUT THEY WILL NEVER DETUNE A PRODUCT and sell it under the same brand name, or allow an assumtion that it is the same quality.
These are actuall quotes from XOM
In markets where the law requires it, ExxonMobil appears to be listing products as "synthetic", "semi-synthetic", or otherwise consistent with the pertinent laws. There is, therefore, no confusion as to what is or is not "synthetic".
ExxonMobil manufactures and sells motor oils in various countries worldwide using a variety of formulae. Among the base and blend stocks it uses are hydroisomerized petroleum, polyalphaolefin, diester, polyolester, alkylated napthlenes, and some even more esoteric chemicals such as esterized waxes and vegetable oils.
Depending on what country the products are sold in, they are termed "semi-synthetic", "synthetic", or something else consistent with that country's laws. For one example, a hydroisomerized petroleum is "synthetic" in North America but is not sold as "synthetic" in the European Union.
Fully synthetic M1 in Europe is actally REAL SYNTHETIC 100% not the crap we get here... i guess thats what in trying to convey, even XOM admits it.
There is a BIG difference in the REAL imported M1 you get for your 600s at the mercedes dealer than what you buy at walmart.. Get it
There is also a BIG differnce in price 5.99 compared to 18.00
This no joke, no mud, just reality in the capitolist society we live in to day.
I just liked it alot better when they actually told you on the back bottle that their product was not synthetic. That is honesty
But hey I need an oil change soon. Send me 3.4 quarts (more if you wish to do UOA's at 3, 5, 7.5, 10, 15, 20k- another 24 oz I figure) and I will run it and YOU report the UOA's. You want to control the UOA's? No problem, send someone to take the samples and sent them to a lab of your choice. I can do it for you, but you probably wouldn't trust an M1 user. It will be interesting to see in print what you might happen to find. So what is 4/5 quarts (plus however many UOA's you want to run) going to cost you? (certainly less than the 11.50 per quart and at 4 quarts FAR less than $46.) If it tops M1 from an M1 user of over 850,000 miles, wouldn't that be priceless? (besides you can write it off as advertising)
I wonder if YOU are as open as those AMS and M1 (dealers) customers you rail against?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Regarding your claims that the Mobil 1 0W-40 sold in Europe and the Mobil 1 0W-40 sold here in the States, I find those allegations exceedingly dubious. I also find it interesting that VW, a company that has arguably the most stringent oil standards for gasoline engines in the world has publically stated that Mobil 1 0W-40 meets their 503.01. They didn't say "only European Mobil 1 0W-40", or "only Japanese Mobil 1 0W-40", they said Mobil 1 0W-40 in all markets meets 503.01. Similarly, VW doesn't say "Mobil 1 0W-40 from a Mobil gasoline station and NOT from Walmart".
Until you provide some verifiable substance to the dubious things you've been saying, you will continue to be utterly devoid of credibility around here. That you have a vested interest in discrediting Mobil 1 and advancing the opinion of Eneos doesn't help your cause either.
Not to get off topic
Im going to mosie on down to mobils booth...
They're down at booth 505, looks like 3 aisles over 4 rows down from your booth 134. Be sure to post up that PPB info, mmmkay?
I'm not going to say anything else about M1, as i have it in my garage as well, im not trying to talk bad about M1 just that not all M1 is the same, and the quality of product in the bottle varies depending on where you live, and where you buy it from.
Honestly, i have not said anything bad about there product. :mad:
M1 product is great for 90% of the public, but there are plenty of people willing to spend more money for better product.
Obviously you guys understand the differences im trying to make, but most "NASCAR sheeple" do not. They don't make the connection that just because the bottle says "Fully synthetic" it might not be....
Nor dose it click that the products they buy at walmart are not the same that they use in the actual racecars. The same crowd of people think 750hp out of V-8 that guzzles leaded gas by the gallon is high tech high performance.
If your were looking for eneos you can go to there web site and find a dealer near you, note: Only dealers that stock a min of $2500 are listed as authorized dealers. There are a lot of dealers out there about 1000 in the west half of the USA. You will never see ENEOS in any big chains, as they will not make a product at that pricepoint, but 4-5 years from now you will see Nippon Oil Products in big chain stores near you.
So, if I'm reading between the lines correctly here, Nippon Oil will PPB something for the masses?
Given the ULSD (15 ppm) this certainly does impart much LESS importance on the 5W40 diesel engine/specification products. However I still want a 12 TBN as most of the UOA's show very low consumption (generate low wear and waste products) Given that LSD WAS up to 500 ppm that was significantly greater soot forming potential.
However since RUG/PUG is still 30 ppm (min of 2x greater than ULSD) and the specifications for most engines still have oil change intervals recommended from 3,000 to (MAX) 7,500 miles, for the majority of applications it (TBN) STAYS important.
The ratio is 50 to one!!!!!! (less than 2% of passenger vehicle fleet are diesels)
There are more esoteric issues with 5w40 but this is glazed eyeballs/brain on sleep mode subject matter.
One of the main reasons you haven't seen eneos in North America, is contractual agreements with the OEM's. Untill 2006 if you wanted CVT fluid for your honda/ford/nissan vehicals you would have to go to the respective dealer parts counter, and buy one of those expensive shiny bottles for $24.00 avg. Now you can simply call your parts dealer ie: Baxters or a Myers auto parts and get a replacement fluid for $10. Eneos is also super popular with independant import repair shops that used to have to order there cvt/ATF/0w-20/0w-50 from the dealer and mark it up even more to the customer. Now they buy ENEOS better quality and charge the same price but they get to make the money not the dealer parts counter.
Oem import fluids have been a monopoly in the usa for a while but now there is different branch in the supply line to bypass the OEMS.
Sorry guys if i come off the wrong way, im not really an [non-permissible content removed]. I just had 2 much coffee and diet pepsi, man that caffine gets me really snippy.
Just because i love there product and happen to know alot about there company, and defend em when people say the products crap and is a small no-name snake-oil company.
How are you guys so sure im at the ENEOS booth.
Just mabey im at the Torco Oils booth... Hmmm
1 Mobil reserves the right to change formulation any time they feel like it.
2. Mobil 1 is a brand name not a specific formulation.
3. Due to continual product research and development, the information contained herein is subject to change without notification. (from M1 spec sheet)
4.Typical Properties may vary slightly. This product data sheet is based on global product data sheets for use with products purchased in the U.S.
(from M1 spec sheet)
Damit in supposed to talk about M1 Grrr....
SR-1 and SR-5 series lubricants?
How do you feel about the MPZ FM additive?
100% synthetic motor oil".....
..." Advanced Fully Synthetic Motor Oils..."...
..."Features & Benefits:"...
..."Group III/IV 100% Fully Synthetic "...
link title
What is clear:
group III ("hydrorefined" to use other Eneos references, however hydro refined might be the more "correct" usage (aka hydro cracked) ) and group IV blended ARE being advertised/marketed by Eneos AS 100% synthetic.
What is NOT clear: what are the percentages?!
What is ambiguous: why the no group III/IV references on the Eneos.com web site, BUT on the above link.?!
(sorry for the "cut,cut,cut and paste" job, I did not want to include the other 99% unrelated to the point, so folks can click on the link to see the WHOLE drill) Further one can click on the various other viscosity products (Eneos).
And the eneos web site is new as of about 2 weeks ago, it seems to have a lot of generic information, and hasen't been fully updated with the current product specs. The old website before the update, had current specs.
Clearly those are old non us product specs, as they are specking the ECO-STAGE product that is sold over-sea's. Note: the color of the oil is listed as L3 or and orange color.
ENEOS 0w-20 Is a light golden amber. I have seen the Eco-Stage 0w-20 it's bright orange in the sun.
I belive the ebay link is correct, as it looks like he cut and pasted from the old website, with correct spec.
Clearly that perception is CLEARLY wrong, as the Eneos 0w20 product would ship from Henderson NV, which as you know is REAL close to LAS VEGAS (Conventions Center), where you currently are manning a BOOTH @ the SEMA Show!? Just LQQK at the link!? Since Eneos controls WHOM the dealers are .... does the left hand know what the right hand......?
Now the OTHER side of this means that whatever ExxonMobil hydrocracks (being as how they are one of the worlds most HUGE oil companies', they can now call EVERYTHING group III and hydrocracked = 100% synthetic!!!!????
They do not !! But...
Perhaps Eneos feels good about calling their products 100% synthetic because it contains an unknown % of group IV PAO while Castro only uses 100% hydrocrack group III and still calls it 100% synthetic !!?? :shades:
"For those interested, here is my latest UOA with specifics listed below.
Lab used was Predictive Maintenance Services
Car: 2004 Jetta GL (PD)
Miles on car at time of sample: 110,490
Oil used: Mobil Delvac 1 5w40
The oil was in the engine from September 28th, 2006 until April 7th, 2007
Fuel used was almost exclusively BP #2 ULSD (plus 2 tankfuls of Sunoco B20)
4 ounces of Stanadyne Performance Formula were added at each fill up
Driving style: easy, with shifts between 2000 and 2500 rpms, and with fewer highway miles than previously driven.
Iron 57
Chromium 2
Lead 6
Copper 7
Tin 0
Aluminum 10
Nickel 1
Silver 0
Boron 21
Sodium 6
Potassium 6
Magnesium 322
Calcium 2617
Phosphorus 1143
Zinc 1260
Molybdenum 1
Fuel A
Water <0.1
Glycol N
Visc @100c 14.5
TBN 7.52
Soot 0.4
Oxidation 15.00
Nitration 10.00
Comments from Predictive Maintenance Services:
...
Attached is the UOA for your vehicle. If this sample represents a 20K OIC,
then all is doing extremely well. TBN is surprisingly strong for this
mileage.
Wear levels and contamination appear normal. No corrective action indicated by tests performed. Continue normal PM and sample interval.
Thanks for continuing to choose AV Lubes and Predictive Maintenance for your
oil testing needs."
xxx xxxxxxxxxx
Chief Analyst"...
www.bobistheoilguy.com
Do a search for
Mobil Delvac 1 2004 VW Jetta PD 20,250 miles.
Interesting reasons why I like Delvac One 5w40?
Question: How many "make-up" quarts did you put in over those 20,250 miles (if any)?
Comment: Geez, after more than 20,000 miles, your Delvac One had a higher TBN than the ENEOS 0W-50 stuff that's been hawked around here recently has when it's fresh out of the bottle (7.52 versus 6.4). Not too shabby.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Typical Properties of ENEOS Motor Oil Eco Stage
Quality grade API SM
SAE viscosity grade 0W-20
Appearance Orange
Density (15°C), g/cm3 0.854
Flash point (COC), °C 230
Kinematic viscosity
(40°C), mm2/s 41.5
(100°C), mm2/s 8.5
Viscosity index 199
Pour point, °C –45.0
TAN, mgKOH/g 2.4
TBN (HCl), mgKOH/g 5.1
Color (ASTM) L3.5
Note: The typical properties may be changed without notice. (December 2004)
Those specs are not the same as the product that is being distributed here,in the USA.
The ECO-STAGE, ULTRA-HYPER formulations are for japan and Europe repectively and are not the same formulations as we have in the usa. Im sure Eneos is in the process of updating the website to the current US specs.
And the russian specs are different yet. I want to get my hands on the ENEOS flush and the 2-stroke oil that they run in the moto GP
However if the cited oils do meet the standards mentioned, I.E., ..."Quality grade API SM "... etc, then I am really not sure what the effects of your distinctions REALLY mean.
So should I be glad I didn't order Eneos products based on the errors you describe? Did I avoid Eneos ROT GUT products? :lemon:
link title
..."Also Compatible with Diesel Engines
ENEOS Motor Oil 5W40 meets the API CF standard, so it can also be used in passenger cars and small trucks that have diesel engines."...
link title
..."Note: The typical properties are subject to change without notice. (December 2004)"...
As GSR1 has so noted, Eneos 5w40 has NOT kept up with even the (old) Delvac 1 5w40, diesel side:
off a container of Delvac 1 bought in Jan 2003 ..."api service CI-4, CH-4, CG-4 CF-4,CF, SL/SJ warranty requirements"...
Here are the current specifications (Delvac One 5w40)
API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ
link title
You guys think what im saying is some mud slinging then you gotta check out the artical on pg 38 titled "A Cause for Concern" It outlines the some of the horrible practices the US oil blenders are doing.. There is ONE major and very respectable blender( You and i probably have there product on the shelf in the garage) that is turning out absolute crap.... They also make a very poular expensive synthetic?
It's amazing what a manufacture will do with there own blend once they have a name brand established. Once people start assuming that they are getting a good product becase they are buying a brand name, then the product quality just takes a crap, because we are sheeple.
I belive you can download the magazine in PDF format
Lubes 'n' Greases
March 2008 Volume 14 Issue 3
Also note that the crap product is PPB for major retailers, with the same product at different automotive based retailers is of good quality. :lemon:
1. The web site you link does not seem to allow a look at the issue you mentioned
2. While I am no copyright lawyer, it seems you can post the relevant text and give the proper references, with no violation.
2. How do the practices you mentioned show up in VOA and UOA tests by independent labs doing these types of tests?
3. Is that why there is a distinct lack of Eneos VOA's and UOA's?
Now your last sentence is interesting in that on a Mobil Delvac One 5w40 UOA (if that is one of the blenders you are implying) had SI (silicon) of 5 after app 10k OCI. (which i linked) .!!! WOW! So if what you are saying is true, this Mobil One/Delvac One 5w40 stuff is far far far better AFTER UOA's than even I suspected!!!! :lemon: :shades: NOT!! The testing really is the proof.
Also there are a lot of graphs and cool comparisons, that would just be so much easier to look at the actuall artical.
All the test were VOA's and were ment as a "State of the Industry test" they regularly test the big 8 oil companys standard product's to see when and how the new additives are being used. And the reason to bring this to readers attention was the inconsistancy's of Blending practices to the Large Retailers, and bulk oil that is distributed to lube shops, that carrys the Big Brand names, like Q state, Pennsoil,mobil,castrol.
If you use proper language you come out as more reliable source. I have hard time believing you because of persistent misspelling:
(articals, companys, carrys, caffine, mabey, basicly) and grammatical errors ("about there product", "Nor dose it click", "peddle there product there").
If you cannot write, can you read all the info about oil and then share it with us?
I doubt it.
Best regards
Krzys
PS There is "Spell Check" button next to "Post My Message"
Like it or not, your credibility is severely diminished by poor spelling and bad grammar.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
SO i'm sorry if i sound uneducated, usually when im on here or any forum im in a hurry when typing, and my laptop keyboard dosen't help.
Ester Yamalube
This new product is hot!!!! Its a very similar in formulation to the ENEOS 0w-50 non SM Pro-Race, but without the Friction Modifier. and less VI improvers. It contains aprox 40% complex ester base. Which is about twice as much as the ENEOS 0w-50 SM formulation!!!
I hope you are NOT saying you'd put Yamaha motorcyle oil in your Ferrari F1 racer.
Given appropriate standards, its all in the UOA's,lessening of wear-higher mileage intervals, better mpg, etc. and real world longevity.
Really the new 3,000 miles OCI's has become 10,000 miles OCI's !!!!
In the case of VW 507.00 it is variable up to 30,000 miles OCI's.
I belive the motivation behind the 0w-50,0w-60,0w-70 formulations are because they can, In most high performance applications, there has always been a trade off. High-temp protection vs startup/warm up protection. ie: with 20w-50 product you give up startup protection.(unless oil heaters are used) Until recently, technologies didn't exist to allow a blender to blend a UHV range oil that actually is something you would want to put in to your engine.
And the trend toward 0w-20 oils is based on Fuel eff. and cafe #'s. 0w-20 has been the norm in japan for years since 2000.
Quaker state was putting the API donut on the bottle, when the PPB product didn't even come close to meeting the specs.
All the product was pulled from the shelves, and re packaged.
Now Quakerstate has been banned from using the API donut on the 5w-30 product that is sold at walmarts.
These PPB practices are finally catching up. See for your self at your local walmart. There is no more API donut on q-state 5-30 high mileage. Untill recently most of the oil tested was obtained from the manufature. Its about time the consumer protection people started sampling and comparing what is being distributed to the masses.
I know you guys are going to ride me for this one. See for your self at your local walmart, q-state has lost it's api certifcations for 5w-30 (only the walmart blend)
"LOST" might indeed be relative. They might have simply decided NOT to pay the costs of the freight to TEST and wear whatever applicable certifications.
They might have simply decided to do what folks like (I have read across several sources) Amsoil does. They say they conduct their own R&D and tests: They also add their own internal tests conform to XYZ applicable certifications. They are NOT the only ones to do so. I have read in passing that Redline does the same. Both state openly bang for the buck economics are prominent drivers. They also say they will write letters to your OEM/oem authorized dealers in case you use their oil that does not REALLY carry the specified specifications under the anti trust provisions, which Auto man/auto dealers can prove was caused by their oil product.
As I have said before, the proof is in the UOA's. The VOA's are of course (ONLY) the baseline. In Quaker State's case, the savings are potentially HUGE HUGE HUGE. I mean what % of Quaker State customers run a UOA on WalMart's QS products????????!!!! So really it is a slam dunk bet. If that is not insult to injury, it is even better than that for them. They can just give you a free oil change for your now sludged engine or give you the WC Fields line: go away boy, you're bothering me.
..."It contains aprox 40% complex ester base. Which is about twice as much as the ENEOS 0w-50 SM formulation!!! "...
It is a bit like the words "100% synthetic." Mobil One defined it as PAO group IV/V. Castrol called 100% synthetic hydro refined/cracked Group III. Since Mobil One lost the arbitration case to Castrol, no one is going to get sued (successfully anyway) to claim a hydro cracked group III is NOT 100% synthetic. I would hope Mobil One still keeps to calling 100% synthetic Group IV/V. Legally, as you can see, even they are not bound.
I remember not too long ago posters saying Eneos was 100% synthetic (group IV PAO).. Funny the ENEOS web site said and STILL SAYS hydro refined and listed III and IV are defined as 100% synthetic. Interesting now we have come off the 100% group IV/V PAO ENEOS assertion.
So yes there is flux and change, as a result UOA's will continue to influence me, as these are definitive documentation of changes from the changes (VOA) :shades:
specifically
Super GPO
Super GPO is nonsynthetic however, I had OCI of 10K verified by Blackstone Labs who suggested that I run it a bit longer. They didn't have a base sample so I had to send one along with my used one.
I know that some of their greases are spec'd by GM for use in their vehicles. Just wondering if anyone else out there has tried them?
The motor oils no. Anymore without comparing the oils specifications with the oem owners manual, would require more time and research, testing and ultimately risk, than I would be willing to do.
The company's local distributor seems to cater to the high tech and industrial trade. While they do sell 1qt containers, they seem to favor 5 gal pails to 55 gal drums.
Best Regards,
Shipo