Synthetic motor oil

shipo

1) After only 33,000 miles your engine is barely broken it and is HIGHLY unlikely to have any leaks what-so-ever. Said another way, there's no need to stress about it.

2) Don't worry about the sludge either.

3) With such a short drive cycle, I'm not at all sure that I'd even bother changing to synthetic oil. In fact, were I in your shoes, I'd definitely opt for something like Havoline 5W-30 and stay with the 3,000 mile OCI. Keep in mind; I am a dyed in the wool advocate of synthetic oil, so for me to recommend that you stay with conventional is very much against my nature. That said, I think in your case conventional oil is the better bet.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dchen2003

I appreciate your help shipo and ruking1!

ruking1

You are welcome! Let us know what you decide to do.! As you round out and further define some of the issues you deal with, what you do depends on ultimately what you are comfortable with.

So for example, I would have no issues so called "extending" even conventional oil. Indeed I ran the first full 10,000 miles OCI (as recommended by the OEM) on the Honda Civic, again 5w20 CONVENTIONAL oil. If all you wanted to do was to run YOUR full recommended OCI, then run the recommended conventional oil. So in that sense I would be in full agreement with Shipo. No real sense in "wasting" money, time, and resources.

dchen2003

I decided to give Mobil 1 a try, but now I have one more question. If I use Mobil 1 with 7500 OCI can a Fram filter ($4 at Walmart), Toyota OEM filter ($5 unknown brand), Pure One ($5.88 at AdvanceAutoParts), or Bosch ($5.99) handle 7500mi? Because I don't want to pay $10 for a filter (Mobil 1, K&N), so I narrow down my decision to Bosch and Pure One. Would you please let me know which one is better since the price are closer my budget?

ruking1

Any and all of them can easily handle a 7,500 mile OCI. I would buy on price.

hangaralf1

about changing to synthetic after 3 oil changes?  i have a 06 civic and an 07 odyssey - both of which i changed to synthetic right after the 5000 mile break-in period with "break-in" oil from the factory.did i do something wrong? what kind of damage might i have done?btw - it was royal purple for the civic (now at 30k) and castrol syntec for the odyssey (now at 15k)?is 5w20 what i should be using? (recommended for both) (I CHANGE OIL AT 5K no matter what)what brand of synthetic oil is best for these cars?(WE ARE THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!)

shipo

I'm not at all sure what you're stressing about. Your engine is fine. Don't believe me? Fine, take an oil sample and have it sent in for analysis. The results will prove that your engine is in great condition and that the oil and filter that you’re using will be good for at least 10,000 miles, assuming that you're using synthetic oil.

Best Regards,
Shipo

chetj

i noticed they changed it for the 2008 model year...last year it was 5,000 miles...honda is 10, 000...for normal driving conditions....i would imagine synthetic would be 10,000....2 major auto companies say 3000 miles ocis are obsolete...just as long as oil it has that API symbol on it...of course everybody should check their oil and add when needed...in europe they go even longer i think...i think 7,000 is reasonable

chetj

mobil clean 5000 and a oil filter are only 8.99 at autozone...and 5qts valvoline synthetic with filter is 16.99 last i knew...or M1 w/ M1 oil filter is 29.99 for 5 quarts...mabye they would knock off 5 bucks for reg filter..M1 is so good is doesnt need that premium filter anyways...cant beat $9 for a oil change....clean 5000 also has a c on api label which is rare for a regular oil...so it must be pretty rugged...c stands for comercial use right?

ruking1

..."about changing to synthetic after 3 oil changes? i have a 06 civic and an 07 odyssey - both of which i changed to synthetic right after the 5000 mile break-in period with "break-in" oil from the factory.did i do something wrong? what kind of damage might i have done?btw - it was royal purple for the civic (now at 30k) and castrol syntec for the odyssey (now at 15k)?is 5w20 what i should be using? (recommended for both) (I CHANGE OIL AT 5K no matter what)what brand of synthetic oil is best for these cars?(WE ARE THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!) "...

Except for changing the OEM conventional, so called "break in oil", 5,000 miles TOO early, the answer is NO! I also take it the Royal Purple is 0w,5w20 for the Civic is Honda/Ford specified oil.

chetj

my buddy has it on his cavalier after 8k on oil...what is it?

highmiler650

This time of the year I would guess it is a foamy deposit (oil and water), caused by insufficient operating temperature of the engine. Unless the car is driven at least 20 miles under normal operating temperature you can expect water condensation in that area.

In winter especially, change the oil sooner, according to the instructions in your manual for severe driving conditions.

Consider using synthetic oil and make sure your car is driven at highways speeds for at least 30 minutes every week.

chetj

actually i bought some wal mart synthetic for him and made him change the oil 8,000 miles ago...i used to own car and i dont want to see engine damaged because he doesnt care about oil changes..car has 167 k on it...i just bought some clean 5000 for him...we will change this month...thanks very much for your helpful advice

dchen2003

Shipo,

I read your common on message 6266 about the low mileage on a VW, I have very simular driving condition about my camry except it is not a turbo. You mentioned need to bring the car to exercise at least once a week, does that also apply to 90F in summer and average above 40 in winter of Alabama weather? My commute to the campus is 100% city stop and go city driving and less than 2 miles, just barely enough to bring the car to normal operating temperature. I just changed my oil to M1 5w-30 which is recommand by Toyota, do I also need to bring my puppy out exercising all year round, and how do I make sure there is no water in my oil? Is it possible to know this just by looking at the exhaust (smoke due to water vapor)? If the answer is yes, can your describe how to do the exercise, is interstate the only way or just drive long enough when there is no smoke coming out from the exhaust? I will change the oil once a year since I drive less than 10000 miles a year,is it a good idea.

Thank you in advance for suggestions

shipo

My concerns about your driving regimen is that unless you overtly take your car on the road for at least five miles in the summer and more like eight to ten miles in the winter (preferably more), you will accumulate so much water in your oil that even Mobil 1 will start forming acids well before the 1 year mark.

As for how to tell if the water has boiled off, there is no indicator per-se (unless your car has an oil temperature gauge, something that very few cars have these days), so it's more of a time/distance guesstimate thing. FWIW, just because the engine is "up to normal operating temperature" doesn't mean that your oil is. Your coolant temperature gauge can easily be showing normal while your oil is barely above 100 degrees.

Were I in your shoes, every weekend I'd do at least one ten mile drive so that you effectively purge your oil of water weekly.

Best Regards,
Shipo

chetj

i think the oil companies add something to gas in winter that seems to hurt our mileage...i live in new england...am i right?

ruking1

That is absolutely correct. You might want to look to your states' regulations. CA for example is a (10) % of ethanol: which is (surprise) more costly This of course causes fuel mileage to fall, in addition to the more consumptive nature of operating in winter conditions ANYWAY!!!

shipo

Well, yes and no. In many areas of the country the oil companies are required by law to oxygenate their fuels for the winter months, especially in urban areas. That said, some time during the 2006-2007 winter the new EPA regulations for the metropolitan areas of New England (i.e. Hartford, Boston, and Portland) and the surrounding counties were required to convert from good old gasoline to gasoline with a 10% ethanol mix (often referred to E10).

The good news (errr, sort of) is that we get the same fuel here year-round. The bad news is that E10 is generally considered to reduce fuel economy from three to five percent. Keep in mind that due to the temperature of the intake charge in the winter time, fuel doesn't atomize as well and your mileage will suffer as a result. Said another way, here in New England, we get a double whammy in the winter time with both cold air and E10 fuel.

ruking1

Yes, one of the reasons why your states' regulations are important for example is I had read in passing that in the USA, there are a at least 29 separate blends of RUG !!! And we wonder why RUG costs so much!?

dchen2003

I just switched to M1 for my 03 Camry. I read through all the post about synthetic oil is to extend the OCI on milage basis. But in my case, I have owned my Camry since 03, with only 33000 mi (2 mi commute in the morning and 2 mi in the afternoon, and about 1 or 2 vacations a year). That is about 6000 mi a year. So, before my car hit the 5000 mi, 7500 mi, or 10000mi that will take me one year or more. Based on the manual, it recommends to change oil 5000 mi or 6 month (the dealer uses dino), before I reach the milage, the time already pass 6 month. I am pretty confident to run M1 for more than 7500 mi but how about the time factor, stick to 6 month or more?

Thanks for any suggestions in advance

ruking1

I have run Mobil One 5w30 as long as 3 years (I have a 15,000 mile OCI's ) so as you can see, app 5000 miles per year. So 6,000 miles or 12 mo is really not a concern.

However if you have 3 years/36,000 mile warranty concerns, you can either ask for warranty fulfillment at the 33,000 to 36,000 miles period or just proceed as you had planned.

dchen2003

Thanks for your help! One more thing, do I need to worry about the water in the oil which shipo mentioned can cause forming of acid?

ruking1

If you do not change your operating conditions to so called "burn" off the water, using synthetic oil will not change the dynamic. What will change is the increased TBN from 7 (conventional oil) to 12., this means you will have greater acid fighting resistance with the synthetic, but the production of acids will NOT change So let me join with Shipo in highly recommending 30 mins to 60 mins of sustained highway operation to burn that off!!!!!

smokey75

Is anyone else that subsribes to this discussion having problems? For the last week or so when I click on "Read New Posts" it keeps pulling up this forum even though there is no new posts. It keeps doing it until I click "Mark As Read" but then later it's back to doing it again. Engine Oil Part 2 is doing it also.

ruking1

Same here.

altair4

I was having the same problem with the "Diesels in the News" thread. I cancelled it from my "watched items."

imidazol97

To all:

try using the My Watched Items to navigate to forums. If I keep repeating the Mark As Read it will eventually catch that I've read them all and I click on Read New Posts and we're all set.

Mr_Shiftright

Edmunds is aware of this issue and is working on it as we speak. Should this persist, use the "help" tab at the bottom of the page to report specifics to the Help Desk.

cliffs

I just got hit with a $900 repair bill to replace the intake manifold dexcool ate on a 2001 malibu. I changed the dexcool out at 30K and 60K, but still got nailed. Local Chevy shop confirmed this is common! What a bunch of crap! Warning to GM owners, replace your dexcool with the new universal coolant as soon as you can. If not, you risk my fate. Just one more reason why GM continues to screw their customers and wonders why they are losing business to competitors ( my garage has Hondas now!).

Cliff

shipo

He-he, now you just need to worry about your transmissions. Honda's not been doing well in that department for a number of years now. :P

Best Regards,
Shipo

cliffs

I too have started to used Wal mart brand 100% synthetic. I believe it's made for them by Quaker State I have read. I change every 6,000 miles and use purolator pure one oil filters which have been highly rated by a number of testing services. The oil runs $15 for 5 quarts and the filter $6. For $21 every 6,000, I think it's an unbeatable combination of value and long term insurance. My best testimony is my daughter got a little nuts and put 10K on her '99 Camry before I knew it. While the oil level was down some, it never skipped a beat. With a car so infamous for sludge problems, there has been no ill effects I can tell. Good luck all!

Cliff

cliffs

This was just the latest in a long line of issues I have had with GM cars. Alternators that go out almost like clock work at 60K, electrical problems, NorthStar engines that eat 1-2 quarts every 1,000 miles ( of course, "normal" according to GM), transmission problems, on and on and on! The dexcool was just the latest problem. Once the 2001 Malibu is out of the house, never again!

Cliff

mickeyrom

What exactly is "dexcool"?

richardson

Five year antifreeze installed by some car companies at the factory.

imidazol97

STrange you have had so many problems. I've had 9 GM cars. I had one alternator go out at 70K on 93 leSabre. Currently have 160K and 65 K on two GMs. No problems with alternators or transmissions. It sounds like you're indicting cars when it's not everyone's experience. Note the person mention sludge and
transmssion problems. Sludge occurs in several cars, some more, some less,

Good luck and change your transmission fluid often.

shipo

"I too have started to used Wal mart brand 100% synthetic. I believe it's made for them by Quaker State I have read. I change every 6,000 miles and use purolator pure one oil filters which have been highly rated by a number of testing services."

There's nothing "100% synthetic" about either Walmart or Quaker State oil. The "synthetic" oil offerings available under either brand name are actually hydrocracked Group III conventional oils.

Best Regards,
Shipo

humblecoder

I was wondering if anyone had any comments/opinions/experiences with Motorcraft Full Synthetic motor oil. I've read good things about their Synthetic Blend oil, but I haven't heard much discussion of their Full Synthetic offering.

roadburner

2.3 DISI Turbo I4
Miles on engine 9838
Miles on oil 5046
Date sampled 12/31/07
Make Up Oil 0
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5w30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 40
Copper 83
Lead 2
Tin 0
Moly 80
Nickel 1
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 38
Silicon 12
Sodium 6
Calcium 2634
Magnesium 11
Phosphorus 624
Zinc 808
Barium 2

Sus Visc @ 210F 56.2 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 9.13 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 375 should be >365
Fuel % 1/3 to 1/2 of what some other owners are reporting. Silicon is a bit high as well, but again it is in line with other UOAs of this motor. Blackstone believes that all three numbers will settle down by 15K-20K. At least the motor isn't completely wrecking the oil like the M54 in the X3...

shipo

Any idea what the TBN was?

Okay, let's see here:
- The Iron looks a bit high, however given that your engine is still breaking in, no red flag there.
- I'm thinking that the Copper looks pretty high as well, probably also due to the break in process.
- Contrary to what Blackstone says, I think the Silicon looks perfectly fine, especially given how young your engine is.

All in all, a most promising UOA. Given that I'm a "0W" bigot, I am of course going to suggest that you start using the new "Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy" even though you don't live up here where it can get seriously frosty.

roadburner

Any idea what the TBN was?

Got a little hasty with the cut and paste; the TBN was 2.9. Boy, I wonder what conventional oil would look like after 7.5K miles, like some folks are doing...

ruking1

The comparison issues might be how your results compare with other Mazdaspeed3 engines.Since this topic's web site does not specialize in posting make and model results, a more obviously place to look for those comparisions would be bobistheoilguy.com. I would swag your results are in keeping with other Mazdapeed engine results (pretty average),: unless you ae one of the those that drives hard and/or got the statistically more consumptive engine or both.

My sense from your (normal) results are Mazdaspeed engines are more consumptive of oil/oil additives than say Honda Civic. So for example, my Civic oem recommendation is 10,000 miles OCI's with conventional oil.

shipo

Hmmm, a TBN of 2.9, sounds a little low, however, that too may change as your engine breaks in a little more. Keep us posted.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ruking1

What oil does the oem recommend for the gasser TURBO?

roadburner

Boy I REALLY did mess up the cut and paste. To clarify, I have posted the results on BITOG as well as a couple of the Mazda forums. My iron numbers are a bit higher than what some owners have reported, but incredibly, my copper number is 1/3 to 1/2 of what others are seeing. Fuel dilution was low as were the insolubles.
It seems that the new direct injection engines are prone fuel dilution issues, particularly the twin turbo BMW I6 as well as the normally aspirated V8 in the Audi RS4. Since my fuel % was <0.5 I must be living right, as Blackstone considers anything <2.0% to be accepatble.

ruking1

I am glad. As I looked at the first post, the fuel dilution LQQKed high, even for the a motor breaking in. So given your newer post, I need to modify the odds to REMOTE.

roadburner

What oil does the oem recommend for the gasser TURBO?

The manual says that any SM 5W-30 is acceptable. I selected Mobil 1 because of the good results I've had in other engines as well as the fact that this Mobil 1 grade meets the Honda/Acura HTO-06 standards.

bear78

I heard of a product called le that could solve your problem

bear78

I can send you a link of a great lubricant that can work for you called le

imidazol97

What's the name of it?

ruking1

This is not sound bite able, but the other thing that is PROBABLY happening, other than the newness and break in of the engine, and you the new owner getting used to the vehicle, is (measured) chemical reaction/s when you switched from OEM fill to Mobil One 5w30. So this switching of/to/from/back/mix, ETC/ different oils can and does make a (measurable) difference. This of course shows up (among other places) in a spike in the copper readings. So once you settle in on a particular brand and of course model number (i.e., Mobil One 5w30 ) your reading should settle down. The utility of UOA's are snap shot to TREND in nature and NOT to measure the difference in BRANDS (oil chemistries). You can actually get the differences on the virgin UOA section of bitog.