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It appears to me buying Scamsoil is like buying bottled water instead of the water from the tap in our quality water city.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is exactly it. If you're paying $35.00 a gallon for oil and changing it every 7500 miles, it does not make sense. But, if you are changing the oil every 20,000 - 25,000 miles, versus every 7500 miles for oil that is half the price, you save money using the Amsoil. Not only must you consider the cost of the oil, but also the filters and time involved. I put 23K on my minivan last year on a single oil change, and I had to add about 2 quarts additional during that time frame; not bad for a van with over 200,000 miles on it. If I only put 7500 miles a year on it, though, it would be silly to spend the extra money on the product.
For me, it is all about the total cost.
is there something that actually makes that oil better than one of the synthetics I can now buy at Walmart for my car?
is there a reason to change the oil before 25000 miles due to contaminants in the oil from cold starts and driving especially in cold weather?
Make that three...
is it multilevel marketing?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2. No, I change my oil annually simply because a UOA is, for me, cost prohibitive and the oil's manufacturer recommends annual OCIs. The oil is actually rated for 35,000 miles or 17,500 under "severe" conditions, but the filter is only rated for 25,000. I typically put around 17,000 a year on my vehicles using synthetic, but last year we had a long trip to Pennsylvania and back that put a lot of miles on the van.
3. I don't have a clue about the multilevel marketing. I know they have all of these titles for various dealers, such as "jobbers," "direct jobbers," "dealers," etc., but I don't get into all that mumbo jumbo. I buy all my oil using Amsoil's website, then pick up the product at the regional distribution center when I make a trip to the Palmer area. As I always drive through there at least once a year, it works out pretty well.
Cost-wise, I save about $100 a year compared to conventional oil that I used to use; I spend about $60 per vehicle, which includes the filter and oil for the initial fill, and an allowance for additional oil added during the year (usually about a quart).
It is no oil analysis, but I like that the oil drains (after a whole year) golden brown, only slightly darker than when I installed it, versus the tar black of conventional oil. I have not used other brands of synthetic, but I have quite a few friends who use Mobil 1 and they say theirs looks similar (brown, not black!) when they change the oil, but none of them use longer than 7500-mile OCIs.
I would like to do a UOA, but there is no place local to do it, so it is pretty expensive between the shipping and cost of analysis.
The thing is, it doesn't meet even a single oil specification for any European vehicle manufacturer, not one. If you read the fine print on the Scamzoil web site, you'll see con-man style terms that say things like, "Our oil was designed to meet the stringent VW 502.00 (et.al.) oil specification." Uh-huh, designed to meet but not certified to meet. If you look at the Mobil 1 0W-40 oil that you can find at Napa, Walmart and Autozone, and the Castrol Syntech 0W-30 and 5W-40 that you can find at Autozone and some other retail outlets, you'll see language that says, "Certified to meet...", you'll also find those oils on the VW/Audi list of approved oils, but you will not find even a single Amsoil offering on said list.
Best regards,
Shipo
In the Grand scheme of things, the certification testing doesn't really cost all that much, and given the potential increase in sales they'd see if they were approved, I have to believe that they'd easily recover the cost of the certification testing in relatively short order. Said another way, they know the oil doesn't meet the specifications in one or more areas, and they're hiding behind a smoke screen by claiming they don't feel it is necessary to spend that money. I mean come on already, they have some oils tested and certified, why not others?
Best regards,
Shipo
It does if you care about your car. I do care about my uber-auto:-)
Depends on the car. I wouldn't put it in BMW or Audi, but see no problem to use it with Japanese or US cars.
Absolutely. For me, the value of not having to change oil during the winter months cannot be over estimated.
On the chance that you really don't know, the answer is yes!
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/al_amatuzio_interview.htm
Interview with Al Amatuzio, President and CEO of AMSOIL INC.
Action News: Back to the Dealers. Occasionally you hear concern that AMSOIL will abandon multi-level marketing and move to a traditional marketing program. Any truth to that?
Al Amatuzio: Absolutely none.
I didn't. I saw lots of individual "dealers" selling and advertising anywhere they can stick in a link to their site even in Edmunds discussions. I saw those sites looking like the "Mothership" site Amzoil and all containing information from there. Reminded me of all the MLMs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Does the long life protect the cooling system just as good as the regular antifreeze??
Any thoughts?
As an alternative to the old IAT green stuff for older cars, some folks (myself included) opt for a more environmentally friendly Propylene-Glycol coolant. It costs a bit more, however, it is far less toxic to the environment, and if you have a slow coolant leak into the oil, it is far less destructive to engine bearings.
Best regards,
Shipo
Regarding your cars, if you have 0W-30 you're probably good to go even for the winter, however, if you have 5W-30 I would probably wait until summer to use that oil, errr, unless you have mild winters where you live.
Best regards,
Shipo
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Best regards,
Shipo
The only way an oil will void a warranty, is if the oil fails. Easily proven with parts and used oil analysis. If the oil fails, then the manufacturer of the oil is responsible. The burden of proof of oil failure is on the vehicle manufacturer.
AMSOIL has never voided a warranty in 37 years because the oil never failed and caused a parts failure when used as directed. And if it ever does fail, AMSOIL covers all expenses with their own warranty promptly.
If a dealership or repair shop says using AMSOIL will void a warranty, ask them to put it in writing on company letterhead. At this point, they usually back down from their claim if they know the law. If they will put it in writing, send it to AMSOIL who will firmly tell them they are in violation of the law and will press charges if they continue to tell customers this.
Uh-huh, tell that to the guy that showed up on the VW-Vortex site a year or so ago. He had been using the Amsoil "European" oil that is NOT VW 502.00 certified (although Amsoil's language on the bottle is cleverly written to imply that it meets that spec), and suffered an engine failure. VW denied warranty coverage, and Amsoil did nothing to help him out. In the end it cost him something like $4,500 to have his 1.8T replaced.
The point is that some posters here feel using AMSOIL will void their warranty and it won't and never has. If it does, AMSOIL pays for repairs.
"Uh-huh, tell that to the guy that showed up on the VW-Vortex site a year or so ago. He had been using the Amsoil "European" oil that is NOT VW 502.00 certified (although Amsoil's language on the bottle is cleverly written to imply that it meets that spec), and suffered an engine failure. VW denied warranty coverage, and Amsoil did nothing to help him out. In the end it cost him something like $4,500 to have his 1.8T replaced"
I'll gladly tell that to "the guy". Give me his name and contact info. The BBB shows no consumer warranty complaints against AMSOIL for the past 3 years And they didn't list any for 5 years before that when I checked. Pretty good for the million or so vehicle AMSOIL oil changes during that time. Sounds like an unsubstantiated "urban legend" or someone with an axe to grind. If AMSOIL recommends the oil for an application, they will warranty it. And your proof is an anonymous post on the internet?
Long story short, until Amsoil stops using business practices that are replusive to many, and until they step up to the plate and have their oil certified to meet manufacturer requirements (as do almost all other suppliers of high end oil), regardless of the amount of marketing noise, and regardless of the number of internet drones they have, they're not going to convince the vast majority of folks to try their products.
Since there's no response does that mean each of these is equally capable as a synthetic oil to put in a first time synthetic fill for a 90K mile motor?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What abhorrent and repulsive business practices are you referring to? AMSOIL Inc., has been a highly respected company in the industry by it's customers, peers, API, consumer groups and oil associations for 37 years. They were the first oil to gain API certification for synthetic oil.
AMSOIL does offer 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40 and 15w40 oils certified by API. How many more do you want? No vehicle manufacturer requires oil certification in the US and Canada. AMSOIL has grown on the average of 20% a year for the past 20 years, while the majors have lost market share.
AMSOIL was and is "The First in Synthetics". AMSOIL leads, the others follow.
I took a quick look and was not able to find it amongst the tens of thousands of posts over there, pretty much a needle in a haystack. As for VW dealerships recommending Amsoil, hey, if they want to warrant the engines themselves, then they're certainly welcome to use and recommend that oil, however, VW does not and will not warrant any engine that has used oil that has not been certified. Here's the most recent version of the published list of certified oils; Amsoil is not on the list: http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0- 023.File.pdf
What abhorrent and repulsive business practices are you referring to? AMSOIL Inc., has been a highly respected company in the industry by it's customers, peers, API, consumer groups and oil associations for 37 years. They were the first oil to gain API certification for synthetic oil.
In short, I find all companies that operate as MLMs abhorrent, add to that their highly questionable (and grossly misleading) marketing and advertising practices, and you couldn't pay me to use their products.
AMSOIL does offer 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40 and 15w40 oils certified by API. How many more do you want?
Who cares how many API oils they have, API specifications were completely insufficient for three of my last six cars.
No vehicle manufacturer requires oil certification in the US and Canada.
Did you type that with a straight face? The following is a very short list of manufacturer oil specifications for cars sold in North America that are absolutely required to maintain warranty compliance (which spec pertains to which engine/model is a much longer list):
VW: 502.00, 503.01, 505.00, 505.01, 506.00, 507.00
BMW: LL-01, LL-04
Mercedes-Benz: MB 229.5
AMSOIL has grown on the average of 20% a year for the past 20 years, while the majors have lost market share.
So? Who cares? They sell an overpriced product that based upon independent studies perform as well as (but not better than) products a third to a half cheaper (I assume the cost of maintaining the MLM accounts for the extra cost).
AMSOIL is not on the list because they wish not to pay to be on every list that comes along. It simply is not required to be on any list in the US and Canada. It is in some other countries, but AMSOIL does not market there.
MLM's have thoroughly been investigated. If AMSOIL was shady or fraudulent in anyway, they would have been taken off the market. AMSOIL is an American Company and has been in business for 37 years and provides income for tens of thousands Americans and will provide many more US jobs in the future. Sound better than sending our money overseas to me.
Again I ask for proof of AMSOIL, Inc. " highly questionable (and grossly misleading) marketing and advertising practices".
"Did you type that with a straight face?" Yes, certification and being on a list is not required in the US and Canada. No vehicle manufacturer requires oil certification in the US and Canada. "
The following is a very short list of manufacturer oil specifications for cars sold in North America that are absolutely required to maintain warranty compliance (which spec pertains to which engine/model is a much longer list):
VW: 502.00, 503.01, 505.00, 505.01, 506.00, 507.00
BMW: LL-01, LL-04
Mercedes-Benz: MB 229.5 " Oil manufacturers only have to list that they meet those specifications, which AMSOIL does and has never voided a single VW, BMW, or MB warranty and even offers their own free warranty.
"AMSOIL is not on the list because they wish not to pay to be on every list that comes along"
That is a hoot for someone to say that. I looked for the GM 6094X certifications. Guess they wouldn't want to be on that list.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So in a sense, some of the franchisees/dealers often don't do the product's image a good turn, IMO.
I have nothing to prove against the product but the merchandising of it drives me up a wall.
Dude, you've been drinking way too much of their Kool-Aid. The thing is, it's zealots like you that makes the Amsoil name synonymous with Scamzoil in most people's minds.
As a suggestion; why don't you go away for a couple of years, gain some perspective, and then come back and discuss this with us. :P
You are correct. AMSOIL doesn't want to pay to be on that list. There is no reason to be on that list for GM products sold in the US and Canada. It is not required by GM to be on the list, only to meet GM's specs, and AMSOIL meets GM specs. Why pay to be on some obscure list that only a gullible, ill informed consumer thinks is important? It would only raise the price of AMSOIL.
As a suggestion; why don't you go away for a couple of years, gain some perspective, and then come back and discuss this with us."
Sorry, I don't drink Kool-Aid. I prefer to read technical information, used oil analyses, product specifications, independent testing, and tribology books.
As far as perspective, I've done my own oil changes for the past 36 years, have a chemistry minor, retired from Shell/Pennzoil/QuakerState after 28 years, most of which as a technologist where Shell formulates, tests motor oil, and engine tear downs, and been an independent AMSOIL/NGK/WIX/Donaldson/Mann Direct Jobber for 5 years. I consult to over 330 accounts, including municipalities, retailers, commercial fleets and individuals, providing AMSOIL for over 5,000 oil changes a year with no problems. If anyone here can top that for perspective, please speak up.
I am just clearing up misconceptions stated here that AMSOIL will void a warranty, when the facts are that it never has in 37 years.
Why do you think AMSOIL, Inc. is a scam? Any specific examples? Or is this just another internet forum wives tale....
I guess I've just been insulted as one of those gullible, ill-informed consumers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When Scamzoil representatives say stuff like the following (something that happens all too frequently):
"I am just clearing up misconceptions stated here that AMSOIL will void a warranty, when the facts are that it never has in 37 years."
Going back to the VW example, Amsoil is NOT on the VW/Audi list of approved oil (at least I don't see it on that list and I'm pretty sure you didn't either), however, Amsoil and it's minions keep insisting that the oil can be used with no fear of voiding the engine portion of a new vehicle warranty.
Fact; if the oil isn't on the list of approved and certified oils and an engine fails during the warranty period, VW and Audi (in this specific case), can, will, and more importantly has voided the engine portion of the warranty. Furthermore, until Amsoil gets off their butts and has the oil certified, that situation will not change. As for your assertion that having their oil certified will increase the price, I say, "horse hockey". Why? Two reasons actually, 1) manufacturers all over the world, some smaller than Amsoil, have their oils on the list and said oil is considerably less expensive than Amsoil, and 2) by having their oil certified, they would significantly increase their potential client base, and as a result, sell more oil (which would spread the cost of the certification to the point of it being an irrelevant amount per unit of oil).
So, why doesn't Amsoil step up to the plate and have their oil certified? My guess is that it is incapable of meeting the requirements in one or more areas and it will not pass the tests. Said another way, they'd rather say their oil is 502.00 capable instead of proving that it's 502.00 capable. :P