Well, your friends were prophetic. I spoke with Quaker State about their 5W-20 oil and durability. They said that in order to acheive the new SL classifiction for that weight they had to make it a synthetic blend.
Starting in August, all new Q-State produced will meet the new SL designation. Don't know whether that will also have synthetic in it.
However, doesn't that speak well for pure synthetic?
Some early synthetics had drawbacks (leaking, primarily) but I look at people who currently shun synthetics as something akin to "voodoo" as hopelessly out of touch.
If you merely think the slight extra expense isn't worth it, that's another thing entirely. >;^)
Well, I finally got my first oil analysis back. It was from my '98 S-10 that I'm running Mobil 5W30 syn in. I had 6,000 on the oil change and sent my oil analysis to Titan Labratories and requested the PPM report instead of the "dummy" report. My lead content came back at 42 PPM and they considered this high. Any ideas as to what might have caused that? I would like to extend my oil drains up to 10K, but am somewhat afraid to without knowing exactly what this means in the report. I haven't had a chance to contact Titan yet, but just thought I would get some opinions from you all here.
A high lead content could represent bearing wear. Do you tow with the truck, or put a lot of stress on the crank (floor it alot)?
The ppm of lead content should be compared against a universal average for this engine/truck combination. I think a good number for most engines would be < 20.
Remember that oil analysis is "trend" analysis. It is almost impossible to state a problem exists without a base line observation. Thus, if your engine was at 20 ppm for lead and then jumped to 42 (for same mileage driven) that may be an indicator of wear. However, a one time reading of 42 may be normal for this engine. Also, some analysis companies do not consider extended intervals. That is while 20 ppm is fine for 3000 miles then at 6000 40 ppm is also fine, no additional wear. If the company's computer does not recognize this but simply says anything over 20 is high they are wrong. The only absolute values I believe are silicon (perhaps) and fuel, water dilution and total solids. Others are relative based on mileage. Also, my experience over the years is that it is the iron that counts. Even if the silicon were high but iron low it means that little wear is occuring and the silicon may be due to gaskets and seals, not dirt. If this is your first analysis do not be concerned. Hate to cost you money but a sample at 3000 then again at 6000 would be very enlightening but expensive to do. If only lead was flagged by the company I would say you are okay.
I've been reading this board with great interest of late. This question may have been discussed ad nauseum previously so I do apologize for reviving a dead horse!
I took delivery of a new 2001 Pathfinder 3 months ago. First change at 1200 miles done by dealer as a freebie.
I just did 2nd change myself last week with 4000 miles on the odo. Switched to Mobil 1 synthetic with Fram filter (I know, I know...but Fram was easily available at the local Walmart!).
Anyways, my question: HOW LONG CAN I GO BEFORE NEXT OIL DRAIN? This is such a difficult question with so many different opinions but please HELP! Can I go longer or should I stick to the standard 3000 miles/3 month interval?
ballfire, going to a 5,000 mile oil & filter change interval is pretty safe with any brand of synthetic oil. Anything beyond this is the huge debate amongst car guys.
This assumes that you have a long commute or drive the car on an hour-long trip at least once each week to get the engine up to operating temperature where it will purge the moisture and some of the contaminents through the PVC system, etc ...
The ONE application I don't recommend synthetic oil for is any vehicle that just sits and sits ...
Go up to the maximum recommended time/milage. Even Mobil 1 recommends that. Doesn't matter what your driving conditions are IMMO. Get rid of the Fram yesterday!!! Screw on a Pure one or Mobil 1 immediately (or an Amsoil ur Ultraguard if you can find 'em)
BRORJACE >>> Thanks for the input. I guess one cannot go wrong with a 5,000 mile interval. I was hoping for more though to offset the higher synthetic cost (2.5 X to 4.0 X).
ADC100 >>> Where can I purchase Mobil 1 or Pure 1? I've tried looking without success! Also, is Fram that bad?
just thought i'd point out that trending reports are needed to establish a baseline.. if your reading a 42 and 100ppms in the high end of normal then there is concerns. the problem is you need to look at all the numbers, not just the wear metals. by looking at all the numbers, you can tell if your over extending your oils capability to handle the extended drains for you driving habits.
my suggestion is to get all your numbers together, and either post it to www.bobistheoilguy.com site on the forum where there is alot of specialist that can explain what it means. also as the other person idicated, i'd re run the test to establish a trend.
also, if you get a sample, you must make sure there isn't any possible contamination while drawing the sample. make sure the area where the oil drains out is clean, and you allow about a 10 sec count while oil is draining before drawing a sample.
hope this helps. enjoy reading the board. www.bobistheoilguy.com
I think someone just answered my question. I was aware that Syntech was formerly not real synthetic, but now the bottle says "full synthetic." Nothing has changed, right? This is just a refined dino based oil, right?
Anyone know who is making Walmart's "Full Synthetic." Real nice price in my neck of the woods. Less an $3 a quart.
They are taking full advantage of the law with regards to the words "fully synthetic" The subject of Walmart's oil came up once without resolution-I believe. You could read the back to see which European/[non-permissible content removed]/ Mercedes, etc. specs it meets to get some kind of comparison. I'll pay the buck more for Mobil 1. I know what I'm getting.
This is conservative, but you will have fewer problems if you do not extend beyond the SEVERE usage stated in your owner's manual for the period of the guarantee. Consider synthetic a source of better protection, and not a way to save a buck during that time. Using the severe schedule I've been able to get 170,000 miles out of a Dodge Aires, and still going strong.
Regardless, always change a filter out at 3,000 miles. Use a premium filter like Napa Gold (WIX), Pureone, or Mobile one.
Hi, I have a 1993 Lincoln Mark VIII with 118,000 miles on it. I am look for the best possible brand and weight. I base my oil changes on the cars computer which is around 3500-5000 miles. I been considering synthetic oils too. Any suggestions? According to my father that saw something on 20/20 or Dateline, that if you use synthetic oils you only need to change the filter every 3000 miles and add a quart of oil and only do a complete oil change every 30,000 miles or so. He has been telling me that since I first started driving some 13 years ago and now some TV program confirms it. Any thoughts or ideas on this? I appreciate any help on this!
They theoretically back the claim up. Going that length of time makes no sense to me, Unless you do an oil analysis. I think that a year with a filter at 6 months is what some syn fans do. Thats what I do. My milage per year is relatively low though.
Thanks, any suggestions on oil to use? here's my info: "1993 Lincoln Mark VIII with 118,000 miles on it. I am look for the best possible brand and weight. I base my oil changes on the cars computer which is around 3500-5000 miles. I been considering synthetic oils too. Any suggestions?" any recommendations for oil brand and wieght is greatly appreciated from anybody.
I would go with the same viscosity recommended by your manual. There are several very good synthetic oils that you can use. I would choose the one I use by both price and availability. My choices would be: Mobil 1, Amsoil, Valvoline SynPower. There are several others of very good quality, it's just that I've never used them myself. Be careful, however with so-called full synthetics like Castrol Syntec and Pennzoil. They are made using hydrocracked mineral oil and are not made of pure synthetic stocks (PAOs = Poly Alpha Olefins) and therefore do not consist of uniform sized molecules.
Thanks, anybody else has a suggestions on oil preference to use on 118,000 mile Lincoln Mark VIII? I am looking forward to all your thoughts!
Also, I forgot to mention that between oil changes I have to put between 1 to 4 quarts extra. There is no burning just a very slight oil leak but no oil puddle. He suggest going to higher multigrade like 10-30, or 10-40 because it is evaporating. I personally think that it bull but I could be wrong!
I hate to look ignorant here, but I am interested in finding out why I see the trend in this thread to consider nonpremium filters unacceptable for even short use such as 3000 miles. NAPA GOLD is very expensive, as the name implies. Why not use a Fram filter for a mere 3000 miles, when you change oil that frequently? Am I mistaken, or did not Consumers Union state that Fram was a very good choice? Maybe you could give me a posting number to go to, and I will attempt to get caught up. Thanks.
There was a time when Fram filters were one of the better ones. However there have been manufacturing changes (cost cutting) that has changed that.
They are still perfectly fine if you change oil every 3000 miles but questionable for longer intervals.
I have used Fram for many years with no problems. I recently switched to Puralator Pure Ones because I am going to use Mobile 1 with 6000 mile intervals.
Yeah, my last one cost $7.50 instead of 2.00 for a Penzoil. If a bring a lunch from home I can use the difference for a filter. I used cheaper filters and the engines seemed to wear out quicker. I use cars until they are on their last legs.
Fram filters are made with low-grade components like cardboard, and are very susceptible to leakage allowing the dirt back into the engine. Many people have claimed that these filters cause valve train noise and early wear.
If it were me, I wouldn't take a chance and risk the damage for a difference of $5-10 a year. I use Puralator Pure-One or AC Ultraguard. I usually get these filters for around $5-7.
If you haven't seen this already, here is an independent look at oil filter construction:
compared to the value of an engine is zero. The single and multi-pass tests that are performed on filters (mobil and pure one list results-which says something) tell you the percentage of dirt filtered at specified micron levels. What good is a filter which is inferior even if replaced every 100 miles?? You want the one that filters the best. I use Mobil 1 and Pure one. Even though the Pure one is better on the multi-pass. I think the Mobil filter is better because it contains fiberglass media which is considered the best (vs paper). Unfortunately for my Sentra I need to use OEM. But at least it has a superior (like Pure-One) anti-drainback valve, which is important in horizontal and upside-down applcations.
With older cars seals are an issue. They get brittle and crack. Gunk from convention can fill up these spaces giving the illusion that the seal is still good. Pure synthetics have more uniform molecules and can leak easier.
Use a blend for at least 3,000 miles to allow the seals to become accustomed to the newer type of oil.
The new hydrocracked oils like Castrol Syntec, and possibly Penzoil according to the prior posting. Valvoline Max life may also be a consideration. While hydrocracked oils start with basic oil stock they basically rearrange the molecules to a uniform size. This type of oil is very good on seals.
Castrol has an ad on the learning channel that showing tests designed to turn conventional to sludge. Their oil still flowed. It behaved very much like synthetic. A court held that Syntec was so altered that they could sell it as synthetic oil even though it had an oil base stock before processing.
I have some older cars. The one that had the seals replaced recently uses synthetic and doesn't leak. I only used a quart in 6,000 miles. I used to use three in the same distance.
I'll continue to use conventional in another car until I can get some leaking camseals replaced, and have checked the system for other leaks.
It is my understanding and my experience that the tendency for older engines seals to leak was a problem solved with newer synthetics. In fact, it hasn't been a real problem for 10 or more years. I've switched over two high mileage vehicles with absolutely no problems ; 1. 1984 Oldsmobile Firenza 1.8L OHC 182,000 mi, 2. 1985 Dodge Ram 250 Van 360 cid V8 265,000. Yes, you read it right - 265,000. What was my purpose in switching? Dunno, really. An experiment, perhaps to see if it made a difference.
The truth is, that modern synthetics contain adequate compounds in the additive package that work (just like mineral base stock oils) to swell seals. If you already have a leak, perhaps the properties of synthetic oil may further propogate that leak. However, if your engine is already tight, then I wouldn't hesitate using synthetic.
Thanks, I am currently using right now Pennzoil Pure base. I do not like it even though in some reports it say that it very good oil for engines with high mileage. I had the front main seal replaced about a year ago. I was looking into either Mobil 1, Valvoline SynPower, or the Valvoline MAX Life. and thoughts on any of these?
Wow! 265,000 miles!!! The wierd part with mine is that there is no drip leak on the ground, just glazing undernearth the engine and pan. I also, thought about going to Valvoline's Durablend for a couple of times the completely switching to SynPower
Taaas. Yes I agree with you that syn doesn' harm seals. However it truly cleans gunk from inside of the engine, including seals that may be blocked. At least it seems to have in my car. I also understand that the hydrocracked oils also causes these seals to soften and swell. I'm taking a conservative tactic and won't change the car that leaks to Syn until I have fixed them.
As for the hydrocracked, you're right that I am following the hype from the manufacturers of the hydrocracked stuff. But after that Castrol ad I may consider it. It was impressive.
8track. If my Mazda mechnic has his way every car would run Valvoline, of any type. It should be a good choice.
Many thanks for the web site citation. There is some very interesting information there, though one must always remember that the "results" are not scientific. The value I took away was getting a good grounding in who manufactures which filters, and how they compare to each other. Let me add that during this day I have returned my last two FRAM filters, which my Advance Auto parts store counter man happily exchanged for PUROLATORs of my choice.
8track, when going with a synthetic, go with a name brand like those previously mentioned. If you go with an off-brand synthetic, they might not have the same amount or quality of additives in them and there you might get into trouble with leaks, etc ...
I have no problem recommending Mobil 1 or Valvoline Synpower as they are easy to obtain (at Walmart, K-Mart, etc ...) and reasonably priced. The Walmart deals where you get 5 qts for around $18 are especially good.
I would just caution you to avoid the real small-time charlatans like Royal Purple, Synergy, etc ... as you never know what they put in their oils ... and often, they are not 100% synthetic.
If you want something really, really special, I'd strongly consider Redline:
www.redlineoil.com
I'm switching over to this stuff in the next couple of weeks.
Today's passage is from the book "Synthetic Lubricants and High-Performance Functional Fluids."
"In diesel engine testing a PAO-based formulation outperformed a commercial oil based on severely hydroprocessed mineral oil. Superior deposit and wear results were found for the PAO-based engine oil. Double-length VW 1431 turbo diesel tests demonstrated the superior thermal-oxidative stability of the PAO-based formulation.
"Durability of an optimized PAO-based synthetic formulation compared with a commercial high quality mineral oil was also measured. Chassis rolls testing was done at 55 and at 85 mph with 15,000 mile (24,123 km) oil drains intervals. Wear for the engine having the PAO-based formulation was essentially nil.
The engine run on the commercial mineral oil formulation showed several wear parameters that exceeded factory limits. Final proof of performance was evaluated using over-the-road extended drain vehicles tests. In recent extended drain fleet testing studies, PAO-based fully formulated full synthetic oil outperformed mineral oil by having better viscosity control, less oil consumption and better end-of-test vehicle engine ratings.
"An added benefit from using synthetic oils over mineral oils (including hydrocracked oils) is the improved performance in regard to filter plugging. Goyal has shown that overall filter life was improved using synthetic oils. The synthetic oils tested showed no filter plugging in extended drain over-the-road tests running up to 25,000 miles (40,000 km).
"Synthetic fluids, such as poly(a-olefin)/ester blends, offer a number of inherent performance advantages over conventional petroleum-based oils for the formulation of modern automotive engine oils. Another important feature that must be considered in automotive crankcase applications is low-temperature performance. The most widely recognized property benefit of PAO-based fluids is excellent low temperature performance.
Tables 12 and 13 compare the low temperature characteristics of base fluid PAOs with HVI and VHVI mineral oils of comparable viscosity. Highly refined mineral oil stocks are improved over conventional mineral oils’ however, they suffer in low temperature performance even with the addition of pour point depressants. The cold crank simulation test is of vital interest to any car owner who has ever lived in a cold climate.
The advantage of a PAO-based formulation in the crankcase is immediate and obvious on a cold winter morning – it is the difference between being able to start the car and not. The superior low temperature operation of synthetic automotive lubricants in automotive engine oils, gear oils and automatic transmission fluid formulations has been demonstrated."
For more information about "Synthetic Lubricants and High-Performance Functional Fluids"
you are certainly right abought that link on filters (IMO). There was good information there though. I would have a hard time quantatively proving Fram filters are not as good as say Pure one/Mobil 1. But I also feel better about those two. Did you get the "Pure One", line-they are not available for all sizes.
gsleve.. Interesting about filter life vs syn. Really hadn't thought about that before. Good to see posts that make an attempt to list objective information.
For the everyday driver with the everyday car, I believe regular dino oil is fine.
I don't think anyone can make the claim that Synthetic increases the life of the car. Numerous studies have been conducted with respect to this topic, and most, if not all, cannot offer conclusive proof that Synthetics extend the life of an engine. In my opinion, your wasting your time unless you are driving a higher performance car.
There are three primary choices for an oil filter that I have used: Motorcraft, AC Delco, and Mobil1. Generally I'll go for the Motorcraft or AC depending on price, and if Autozone is having one of their periodic oil change specials (5 qt M1 + M1 filter), then I'll use the Mobil1 filter. Honestly, I've noticed that oil pressure comes up the quickest with the Motorcraft on cold starts. I'll crank it over and BAM! I've got pressure. The Mobil1 filter isn't bad, but I have noticed that oil pressure doesn't rise as nearly instantaneously as the Motorcraft.
It would seem that having good oil pressure soon after a cold start would dictate longer engine life. Maybe the difference is significant, maybe it's not. Either way, those are my observations.
I use it because I can safely go up to a year on a change. Mobil 1 writing for SAE papers has documented multiple 200000mile tests where all engine wear parts came up to specs for new parts. (oil change every 15K.) Better winter starting and extra protection when bad things happen. But for me it's really an issue of maintaining 8 vehicles. I'b be out changing oil as we speak. Everyone has his own comfort level.
Can you give references to the "studies" on synth vs. dino and the life of an engine. I think that would be very interesting subject matter for this topic.
The main reason I switched to synth was not primarily for the "life" of the engine, but to offer better protection for longer periods. We know this is a proven benefit of synth oils. I also run synth in my hi-perf. vehicles for the added protection.
I'd considered an electric "pre-lube" oil pump, but didn't really want to get that radical about engine protection. My point was only that I noticed that the Motorcraft filters seemed to show a higher indicated pressure sooner.
I let the Lincoln dealer change the oil in my 2000 LS V8. At 5k miles I changed over to synthetic and have it changed every 5k. I've had excellent results with Mobil 1 in the past, but am now using Motorcraft since the dealer has it in stock. I don't think Ford Motor Company is in the refining business, so they're buying their synthetic oil from someone. Does anyone know who that might be? Any test results/knowledgeable opinions on Motorcraft vs. other brands of synoil?
Scottc8, good luck finding out who makes motorcraft (or any other private label) oil. That sort of information is usually hard to come by.
taass, don't equate oil pressure with durability. It may be that the Motorcraft oil filter is more restrictive ... giving you more oil pressure sooner ... and I wouldn't equate a restrictive filter with greater engine durability.
Hondasmonda, if you live in a temperate climate, change the oil & filter very often AND drive like a ninny for 10 miles at least once per day, you are right. Using just about any current oil or filter might suffice. BUT I drive at high speeds, sometimes for an hour or more at a time, and I like the cold-start advantages of synthetic oil ... especially when it gets down to -25F. The 50-100% longer drain interval is just gravy.
The oil pressure sensor is post-filter, which gives a fairly accurate assesment of pressure buildup throughout the engine. On cold start you would ideally like the oil pressure to come up as soon as possible. If there is no indicated oil pressure for the first 3-5 seconds of engine runtime, it is reasonable to say that if the pressure came up sooner then startup engine wear would be reduced. So, given the monitoring location of the pressure sensor, why shouldn't I equate startup oil pressure rise times with long term durability?
Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it a filter has a by pass in it so that on a cold engine it could [not saying it is] by pass bring the oil pressure up faster then go off by pass when the oil is warmer. What is better not to filter or quick oil pressure? I personally have not put a stop watch on my guage to see what the differance is with differant filters or oils but I do feel syn oil gives me more protection for my engine. Just a thought
Hi Bror You mentioned that you would not recommend synthetic oil for a vehicle that sits. Why is that? What time period to consider long for a vehicle to sit? I have been using Castrol Syntec in my 1992 Stealth since new, it only has 55,000km on it now and there are no problems. I am changing to Mobil 1 at the next oil change and plan to use it as well in my 2002 Envoy.
Obviously one would prefer to get the lubrication to the upper engine ASAP and not worry about filtered oil at first start. Not passing thorugh the filter for a while is immaterial to protection but getting oil to the upper areas is critical to long life.
at the different states of lubrication. you have this fasination about oil getting up pressure during start up. 1.. the oil filters have an anti drainback vavle which keeps the oil on the top end, and once the pressure hits from the oil pump to the oil filter which has oil in it, the top end is lubricated.
2.. most oils will "sqeeze" out or break hydrodynamic lubrication during use..ie, cams, rings,cyl walls. so does synth stay in there better? no, it flows just like the mineral oil does. so does synth oil protect better? well if the oil is squeezed out or hydrodynamic lubrication is broken, then how can it protect?
most people think that synth oils will create less wear. well, it's not the synth that is doing it. that is nothing more than the base oil, so how is synth better?
if you want extended oil drains, then you need synth.if you idle alot, you need synth. if you do severe driving, then synth is needed.
in the prev post about engine wear at 15k mile drains, mineral vs synth, well, basic mineral oil won't hold up that long normally, so does that mean it don't protect as long? no, not really. it means you over extended the oil's life expectency. had you changed it with out trying to extend the drains, then you'd seen that wear would have not been an issue.
oil is oil when it comes to states of lubrication. so where does the real protection come in from... barrier lubrication.
more on states of lubrication at http:www.bobistheoilguy.com
Most antidrainback filters I have used leak. This is based on my observations only with 88 Ranger, 94 Toyota Truck, '96 Cavalier, '78 Subaru, 2001 Sentra. Have used all the common filter names. It may also be coincidence, but vehicles which have horizontao filters seem to run looser quicker in life. Again only a limited observation.
As an aside: Syns *do* seem to give better wear under conditions of less then full film lubrication (boundary). The reason is probably primarily that syn molecules have a greater affinity to stick to the journal and bearing. Can't prove it but was told that by Mobil Engineer. I would pose a question to you: If syn's do not lubricate better why is it accepted that a syn oil can usually be dropped down one level (less viscosity) ?
Taass, I'm really not sure if the location of the sensor has any effect on your theory. I started to think about it ... and then gave up. Fortunately, others had some thoughts. >;^)
Bobistheoilguy, what about certain lubricants having a lower coefficient of friction? I have lots of anecdotal evidence to this effect ... most noticeably using synthetic oil (Mobil 1, I think) in my pull-start lawn mower. You can pull start it much easier because of the synthetic oil. The stuff actually seems to lubricate better. I also think this is why tests show the oil provides superior mileage (MPGs) than mineral oils. Some of it is fewer pumping losses ... but I don't believe that explains the entire difference.
jrsces, Oil that sits in an engine that is only run occasioanlly, gets contaminated with moisture and the byproducts of combustion. So, you should really change the oil more often according to TIME instead of MILES. And swapping out synthetic oil that has less than 3,000 miles on it is something of a waste. That's all I meant by that comment. It isn't actually harmful ... unless you leave it in for a year or longer because of the low miles in between changes.
Mobil performed a test where a 1992 3.1 engine for two years ran two 3 mile trips per day. The top speed was 35 mph and the duration was 9-13 minutes. Oil and filter were not changed in two years. Oil consumption was one quart. (4380 miles) TBN, wear particles, cleanliness turned out OK. Engine cleanliness was excellent.
Based on this information you could maybe make a case that syn would be a good application for this service also. I realize the correct answer though probably is to change conventional oil more often.
Comments
Starting in August, all new Q-State produced will meet the new SL designation. Don't know whether that will also have synthetic in it.
However, doesn't that speak well for pure synthetic?
Some early synthetics had drawbacks (leaking, primarily) but I look at people who currently shun synthetics as something akin to "voodoo" as hopelessly out of touch.
If you merely think the slight extra expense isn't worth it, that's another thing entirely. >;^)
--- Bror Jace
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
PS How high is 42PPM for lead?
The ppm of lead content should be compared against a universal average for this engine/truck combination. I think a good number for most engines would be < 20.
I've been reading this board with great interest of late. This question may have been discussed ad nauseum previously so I do apologize for reviving a dead horse!
I took delivery of a new 2001 Pathfinder 3 months ago. First change at 1200 miles done by dealer as a freebie.
I just did 2nd change myself last week with 4000 miles on the odo. Switched to Mobil 1 synthetic with Fram filter (I know, I know...but Fram was easily available at the local Walmart!).
Anyways, my question: HOW LONG CAN I GO BEFORE NEXT OIL DRAIN? This is such a difficult question with so many different opinions but please HELP! Can I go longer or should I stick to the standard 3000 miles/3 month interval?
TIA
This assumes that you have a long commute or drive the car on an hour-long trip at least once each week to get the engine up to operating temperature where it will purge the moisture and some of the contaminents through the PVC system, etc ...
The ONE application I don't recommend synthetic oil for is any vehicle that just sits and sits ...
--- Bror Jace
ADC100 >>> Where can I purchase Mobil 1 or Pure 1? I've tried looking without success! Also, is Fram that bad?
However, do not know what size/type of the filter is needed for your Pathfinder.
my suggestion is to get all your numbers together, and either post it to www.bobistheoilguy.com site on the forum where there is alot of specialist that can explain what it means. also as the other person idicated, i'd re run the test to establish a trend.
also, if you get a sample, you must make sure there isn't any possible contamination while drawing the sample. make sure the area where the oil drains out is clean, and you allow about a 10 sec count while oil is draining before drawing a sample.
hope this helps. enjoy reading the board.
www.bobistheoilguy.com
Anyone know who is making Walmart's "Full Synthetic." Real nice price in my neck of the woods. Less an $3 a quart.
Regardless, always change a filter out at 3,000 miles. Use a premium filter like Napa Gold (WIX), Pureone, or Mobile one.
I have a 1993 Lincoln Mark VIII with 118,000 miles on it. I am look for the best possible brand and weight. I base my oil changes on the cars computer which is around 3500-5000 miles. I been considering synthetic oils too. Any suggestions?
According to my father that saw something on 20/20 or Dateline, that if you use synthetic oils you only need to change the filter every 3000 miles and add a quart of oil and only do a complete oil change every 30,000 miles or so. He has been telling me that since I first started driving some 13 years ago and now some TV program confirms it. Any thoughts or ideas on this? I appreciate any help on this!
here's my info:
"1993 Lincoln Mark VIII with 118,000 miles on it. I am look for the best possible brand and weight. I base my oil changes on the cars computer which is around 3500-5000 miles. I been considering synthetic oils too. Any suggestions?"
any recommendations for oil brand and wieght is greatly appreciated from anybody.
My choices would be: Mobil 1, Amsoil, Valvoline SynPower. There are several others of very good quality, it's just that I've never used them myself. Be careful, however with so-called full synthetics like Castrol Syntec and Pennzoil. They are made using hydrocracked mineral oil and are not made of pure synthetic stocks (PAOs = Poly Alpha Olefins) and therefore do not consist of uniform sized molecules.
Also, I forgot to mention that between oil changes I have to put between 1 to 4 quarts extra. There is no burning just a very slight oil leak but no oil puddle. He suggest going to higher multigrade like 10-30, or 10-40 because it is evaporating. I personally think that it bull but I could be wrong!
They are still perfectly fine if you change oil every 3000 miles but questionable for longer intervals.
I have used Fram for many years with no problems. I recently switched to Puralator Pure Ones because I am going to use Mobile 1 with 6000 mile intervals.
If it were me, I wouldn't take a chance and risk the damage for a difference of $5-10 a year. I use Puralator Pure-One or AC Ultraguard. I usually get these filters for around $5-7.
If you haven't seen this already, here is an independent look at oil filter construction:
http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html
Use a blend for at least 3,000 miles to allow the seals to become accustomed to the newer type of oil.
The new hydrocracked oils like Castrol Syntec, and possibly Penzoil according to the prior posting. Valvoline Max life may also be a consideration. While hydrocracked oils start with basic oil stock they basically rearrange the molecules to a uniform size. This type of oil is very good on seals.
Castrol has an ad on the learning channel that showing tests designed to turn conventional to sludge. Their oil still flowed. It behaved very much like synthetic. A court held that Syntec was so altered that they could sell it as synthetic oil even though it had an oil base stock before processing.
I have some older cars. The one that had the seals replaced recently uses synthetic and doesn't leak. I only used a quart in 6,000 miles. I used to use three in the same distance.
I'll continue to use conventional in another car until I can get some leaking camseals replaced, and have checked the system for other leaks.
The truth is, that modern synthetics contain adequate compounds in the additive package that work (just like mineral base stock oils) to swell seals. If you already have a leak, perhaps the properties of synthetic oil may further propogate that leak. However, if your engine is already tight, then I wouldn't hesitate using synthetic.
I am currently using right now Pennzoil Pure base. I do not like it even though in some reports it say that it very good oil for engines with high mileage. I had the front main seal replaced about a year ago. I was looking into either Mobil 1, Valvoline SynPower, or the Valvoline MAX Life. and thoughts on any of these?
Wow! 265,000 miles!!! The wierd part with mine is that there is no drip leak on the ground, just glazing undernearth the engine and pan. I also, thought about going to Valvoline's Durablend for a couple of times the completely switching to SynPower
As for the hydrocracked, you're right that I am following the hype from the manufacturers of the hydrocracked stuff. But after that Castrol ad I may consider it. It was impressive.
8track. If my Mazda mechnic has his way every car would run Valvoline, of any type. It should be a good choice.
I have no problem recommending Mobil 1 or Valvoline Synpower as they are easy to obtain (at Walmart, K-Mart, etc ...) and reasonably priced. The Walmart deals where you get 5 qts for around $18 are especially good.
I would just caution you to avoid the real small-time charlatans like Royal Purple, Synergy, etc ... as you never know what they put in their oils ... and often, they are not 100% synthetic.
If you want something really, really special, I'd strongly consider Redline:
www.redlineoil.com
I'm switching over to this stuff in the next couple of weeks.
--- Bror Jace
Today's passage is from the book "Synthetic Lubricants and
High-Performance Functional Fluids."
"In diesel engine testing a PAO-based formulation outperformed a commercial oil based on severely hydroprocessed mineral oil. Superior deposit and wear results were found for the PAO-based engine oil. Double-length VW 1431 turbo diesel tests demonstrated the superior thermal-oxidative stability of the PAO-based formulation.
"Durability of an optimized PAO-based synthetic formulation compared with a commercial high quality mineral oil was also measured. Chassis rolls testing was done at 55 and at 85 mph with 15,000 mile (24,123 km) oil drains intervals. Wear for the engine having the PAO-based formulation was essentially nil.
The engine run on the commercial mineral oil formulation showed several wear parameters that exceeded factory limits. Final proof of performance was evaluated using over-the-road extended drain vehicles tests. In recent extended drain fleet testing studies, PAO-based fully formulated full synthetic oil outperformed mineral oil by having better viscosity control, less oil consumption and better end-of-test vehicle engine ratings.
"An added benefit from using synthetic oils over mineral oils (including hydrocracked oils) is the improved performance in regard to filter plugging. Goyal has shown that overall filter life was improved using synthetic oils. The synthetic oils tested showed no filter plugging in extended drain over-the-road tests running up to 25,000 miles (40,000 km).
"Synthetic fluids, such as poly(a-olefin)/ester blends, offer a number of inherent performance advantages over conventional petroleum-based oils for the formulation of modern automotive engine oils. Another important feature that must be considered in automotive crankcase applications is low-temperature performance. The most widely recognized property benefit of PAO-based fluids is excellent low temperature performance.
Tables 12 and 13 compare the low temperature characteristics of base fluid PAOs with HVI and VHVI mineral oils of comparable viscosity. Highly refined mineral oil stocks are improved over conventional mineral oils’ however, they suffer in low temperature performance even with the addition of pour point depressants. The cold crank simulation test is of vital interest to any car owner who has ever lived in a cold climate.
The advantage of a PAO-based formulation in the crankcase is immediate and obvious on a cold winter morning – it is the difference between being able to start the car and not. The superior low temperature operation of synthetic automotive lubricants in automotive engine oils, gear oils and automatic transmission fluid formulations has been demonstrated."
For more information about "Synthetic Lubricants and High-Performance Functional Fluids"
gsleve.. Interesting about filter life vs syn. Really hadn't thought about that before. Good to see posts that make an attempt to list objective information.
I don't think anyone can make the claim that Synthetic increases the life of the car. Numerous studies have been conducted with respect to this topic, and most, if not all, cannot offer conclusive proof that Synthetics extend the life of an engine. In my opinion, your wasting your time unless you are driving a higher performance car.
It would seem that having good oil pressure soon after a cold start would dictate longer engine life. Maybe the difference is significant, maybe it's not. Either way, those are my observations.
Later
Al
taas.. is your filter horizontal?
The main reason I switched to synth was not primarily for the "life" of the engine, but to offer better protection for longer periods. We know this is a proven benefit of synth oils. I also run synth in my hi-perf. vehicles for the added protection.
taass, don't equate oil pressure with durability. It may be that the Motorcraft oil filter is more restrictive ... giving you more oil pressure sooner ... and I wouldn't equate a restrictive filter with greater engine durability.
Hondasmonda, if you live in a temperate climate, change the oil & filter very often AND drive like a ninny for 10 miles at least once per day, you are right. Using just about any current oil or filter might suffice. BUT I drive at high speeds, sometimes for an hour or more at a time, and I like the cold-start advantages of synthetic oil ... especially when it gets down to -25F. The 50-100% longer drain interval is just gravy.
--- Bror Jace
You mentioned that you would not recommend synthetic oil for a vehicle that sits. Why is that? What time period to consider long for a vehicle to sit? I have been using Castrol Syntec in my 1992 Stealth since new, it only has 55,000km on it now and there are no problems. I am changing to Mobil 1 at the next oil change and plan to use it as well in my 2002 Envoy.
Thanks
Jim
you have this fasination about oil getting up pressure during start up.
1.. the oil filters have an anti drainback vavle which keeps the oil on the top end, and once the pressure hits from the oil pump to the oil filter which has oil in it, the top end is lubricated.
2.. most oils will "sqeeze" out or break hydrodynamic lubrication during use..ie, cams, rings,cyl walls. so does synth stay in there better? no, it flows just like the mineral oil does. so does synth oil protect better? well if the oil is squeezed out or hydrodynamic lubrication is broken, then how can it protect?
most people think that synth oils will create less wear. well, it's not the synth that is doing it. that is nothing more than the base oil, so how is synth better?
if you want extended oil drains, then you need synth.if you idle alot, you need synth. if you do severe driving, then synth is needed.
in the prev post about engine wear at 15k mile drains, mineral vs synth, well, basic mineral oil won't hold up that long normally, so does that mean it don't protect as long? no, not really. it means you over extended the oil's life expectency. had you changed it with out trying to extend the drains, then you'd seen that wear would have not been an issue.
oil is oil when it comes to states of lubrication. so where does the real protection come in from... barrier lubrication.
more on states of lubrication at
http:www.bobistheoilguy.com
As an aside: Syns *do* seem to give better wear under conditions of less then full film lubrication (boundary). The reason is probably primarily that syn molecules have a greater affinity to stick to the journal and bearing. Can't prove it but was told that by Mobil Engineer.
I would pose a question to you: If syn's do not lubricate better why is it accepted that a syn oil can usually be dropped down one level (less viscosity) ?
Later,
Al
Bobistheoilguy, what about certain lubricants having a lower coefficient of friction? I have lots of anecdotal evidence to this effect ... most noticeably using synthetic oil (Mobil 1, I think) in my pull-start lawn mower. You can pull start it much easier because of the synthetic oil. The stuff actually seems to lubricate better. I also think this is why tests show the oil provides superior mileage (MPGs) than mineral oils. Some of it is fewer pumping losses ... but I don't believe that explains the entire difference.
jrsces, Oil that sits in an engine that is only run occasioanlly, gets contaminated with moisture and the byproducts of combustion. So, you should really change the oil more often according to TIME instead of MILES. And swapping out synthetic oil that has less than 3,000 miles on it is something of a waste. That's all I meant by that comment. It isn't actually harmful ... unless you leave it in for a year or longer because of the low miles in between changes.
--- Bror Jace
Based on this information you could maybe make a case that syn would be a good application for this service also. I realize the correct answer though probably is to change conventional oil more often.