in my 89 Honda Civic, which has 232 000 trouble freemiles on it. i have changed oil and filters every 3 K since new. i buy the cheapest (highest SAE rated) petroleum i can find. i am not against synthetics, but i think some of you people here are anal about oil. CHANGE OIL OFTEN and your engine will last a LONG TIME. bottom line....
87 TLC 240k, I changed synthetic oil and oem filters at 15,000 intervals. Bottom line is: extended drain intervals also work.
While you change oil 80 times, I will change it 16 times. (whose being anal here?) Or from a marketing perspective: Why change it 16 times when 80 times will do?
If you change it often enough. At 3000 miles if you could cap the filter housing you could avoid buying a filter a well, at 3000 mile changes there is nothing to filter that would do damage.
That's how the Quick Lube places stay in business, use crappy products but at 3000 miles it makes no difference!
Everyone has to live with their beliefs and for most people it is 3000 mile changes as noted in the bible, (Luke (Pres of Pennzoil) Passage 14.2)
As I said earlier, it's wasted effort pushing some folks to go to syn. I can understand it. Many years ago a friend of mine who used Amsoil, was into 25K or longer changes with the additional bypass filter. He had a Chev Citation and when he retired he had close to 200K on it. I really was unimpressed though, because I felt that more frequent changing was best-purging out the old oil and putting in fresh. In short I was a Na-Sayer. But in connection with my job, I had an opportunity to talk to Lube engineers and our corporate Lube Oil guy concerning oil related problems we were having. I then became aware that I might be wasting valuable time doing more frequent oil changes, putting in inferior products. I then saw more confirming information information in connection with Mobil's testing with extended oil drain intervals and essentially no wear after 200K. Most folks really don't have the accessibility to the information I received or the inclination to research the subject. For most- oil comes in a plastic container-some of it costs $1.25 some costs $5.00. I certainly understand where they are coming from. Armtdm has some good posts on the subject above. Syn simply just isn't for everyone.
Well, having ruined a cam in my 1990 Ford Probe (religiously changed at 3K with Castrol GTX to that point) at about 100K after driving it in minus 26 Fahrenheit to pick up my wife (stranded at work) I'll "waste" the $$ on synthetic oil. FWIW I switched the Probe to Mobil 1 after the damage was done. (At the time it made an annoying tapping when cold. Now it misses under load and sounds really bad unless the engine is hot.) It is still running, just turned 186K, and headed for the bone yard as soon as the kids go back to college and I can drive my new Civic. That was a record low temperature even for Syracuse and the Probe was parked outside all night, but I have NO doubt that my engine would still be like new had there been Mobil 1 in the crankcase. The rest of the car is another story.
I agree with you, subject should be clear, but someone always fires up the crowd with posts like #1801. Hey, it gives us something to do instead of going outside for a smoke.
There are new folks coming on these boards all of the time that are looking for information. The subject of motor oil and especially syn is important. There are several knowledgeable posters here who can answer any reasonable question. This topic has been one of the most successful. Also-I believe everything known to man has been said about the "forbidden to mention product" And I wouldn't suggest that it go away. Besides one of us will keep starting up a new topic on it anyway.
Let's keep it going with this question for those who support a 3K oil change:
What benefit does a 3K oil change have over an extended drain of say 15K with a quality synthetic and analysis? I have asked this question many times, but still have not seen an answer.
BTW, if you say the 3K is cheaper, that is not necessarily true. Depending on the yearly mileage, extended drains may be less expensive.
If you say there is better protection, please specify why, and don't give us the old song-and-dance of "my car ran 800,000 miles on 3K oil changes, therefore they is the best!" Post some actual information that someone can use.
If the answer is because that's what the car manufacturer's recommendation is for severe duty, I can respect your decision. However, that does not supply an answer to the question, and is simply a warm-and-fuzzy for the owner.
In trying to convince friends etc. of the value (not to mention protection) of synthetics and extended drains it appears that 99.9% of owners have a tremendous fear of the manufacturer and simply refuse to budge from the severe service drain interval due to warranty loss fears (fear of warranty loss is heavily implied by all dealers) and get their service done at dealers for this reason. I am convinced that if manufacturers gave 5 year warranties in lieu of 3 the dealer serrvice departments would recieve a huge benefit.
Anyway, even after the warranty period is up most people just do not want to spend the money for synthetics. Cost is reasonable if done by owner but $40-$50 if done at a shop and people just do not see the benefit.
So the fear factor may be two-fold. First, many owners will not deviate from a 3K change due to warranty concerns. Secondly, if they are not going to deviate from 3K, then there is no benefit achieved from extended drain intervals, and therefore little incentive to use synth. I can understand this dilemma, but it still does not answer my question of #1816.
The real culprits then are the auto manufacturers/dealers who will not take the initiative to extend the recommended drain intervals knowing full well that they can safely be done, especially if using synths. This is not all auto makers mind you, and the ones who are extending the drain intervals, namely Volkswagon, GM, etc. should be commended.
VW, GM well, sort of. My new 2000 Buick Regal hass the oil indicator light and the manual says to chagne when it goes on but never go beyond 7,500 miles. At about 3000 miles the dealer sends me a note that it is about due for a change at that 3000 is the recommneded interval. I sent him a letter noting that he should read the manual!
On the BMW side when owners had to pay for oil changes the interval was 3000 miles, now with the first 3 years free the manuals and dealers all say, come back at 15,000 we don't want to see you. Mercedes now at 15,000.
As I noted before, we have 5 year 150,000 miles coolant, 100,000 mile spark plugs, 50,000 miles severe service tranny fluid life (100,000 normal) but dealers still push 3000 mile oil changes. No doubt the technology and products are here to permit extended drains but dealer service depts would be hurt dramatically, and quick lubes. Also, I think that manufacturers, fearing that owners never check under the hood, with 15,000 mile changes would never check the oil level and they would be hit with a ton of claims. Easy to document a oil change, more difficult to document the oil level was checked and it was okay or added some etc. If dealer salesmen actually instructed new owners on how to check fluids and drive home the need to do so it would be great. All they care about is the sale and most do not even know the maintenance requirements of the cars they sell, at least from my experience. Oh, sure 87 octane okay but look in the manual it says 91, no concept what a timing belt vs chain is etc.
Yep! you have hit the major points on the head. When it is on the customers nickel, 3k intervals or invite engine disaster! When on the dealers nickel, dont see us before 15k (synthetic oil) or you pay for it!!
You surely did not see the posts about oil analysis or chose to ignore them? Just like urine or blood samples, but for cars. Draw a sample and sent them off to the lab, if so in doubt. If a new oil change is 100% useable life left, oil change anaylsis will give you the useful life left, at the mileage snap shot (when you draw the sample).
Sorry, my analysis does not give that info and I have been doing this for 9 years. Only states that the oil is okay and acceptable for continued use. I do get the wear metals and chemical analysis as parts per million and the solids and fuels as % of volume etc but never seen a statement that the oil is good for another XXXXX number of miles on the print out!! My key factor has been the silicon level which my company flags at about 32 ppm regardless of mileage. This usually occurs for me around 12,000 miles. It seems that the silicon and the % of volume numbers are absolutes with my analysis company and cannot be exceeded regardless of miles whereas the wear metals are proportionate to mileage, that is if 15 ppm of iron are okay at 5,000 miles then 30 ppm of iron is okay at 10,000 miles.
Without getting too technical you can easily extrapolate the remaining useful life given the trend analysis.
I would gather that the oil analysis you do is "repair trend analysis" for lack of a better word.
In a former life, I used to have a NDI (non destruct inspection) section reporting to me. While we had strict jet engine hr maint and repair guidelines, we also did periodic inspections for a whole host of trend analysis. As a matter of fact the consumer version is a trickle down tech version of this military version.
I use syn oil just based on flow, no matter What anyone says the syn lube gets to the parts faster than petrol based.I change every 5k. 90% wear is aledged just on start up's. As far as I'm concerned thats where the oil needs to perform.
Who wants filthy oil circulating in their engine? This entire topic has an emotional value in it that cannot be overlooked. Changing at 3K intervals keeps the scene clean.
Do you have analysis done? If not, then how do you know when the oil is "filthy"?
Obviously, those who do analysis know that the oil is perfectly clean even after 20,000 miles. If I changed at 3K, I would be throwing away perfectly good oil. I wouldn't feel very happy about that.
Obviously wtd44's definition of filthy oil is that it is no longer clear or amber in color. Having had oil analysis done for years the color has no bearing on the ability of the oil to continue performance. had it both ways, oil still amber but wear metals or solids etc. too high and very dark looking but analysis looked great. Oil is filthy when the solids are too high as a % of volume, when the TBN drops down to 3 or lower and when it is contaminated with something. Many cases the black color is due to good ole dirt. A 3000 mile oil change can hide many evils like a poorly operating PCV valve, air filter, injectors, etc. etc.
#1826 Ah, it reminds me of a subtle but maybe obscure point. As I have stated in previous posts, I change at 15,000 intervals with oem oil filters and Mobil One synthetic 5-30W to 10-30W. One thing I have noted, is that I am down app 1/4 to 1/2 a quart at roughly the 14,000 mile mark. The point is that if you are changing oil, at say: the 3k interval, you really have no idea of your oil consumption over the longer haul. (in excess of say 3k)
Evaluating oil condition by the color is, in my mind, akin to evaluating gasoline octane by smell. The 3K change DOES provides a benefit however- to the profit margins of oil companies, quicky lubes,and other garages that scare motorists into changing oil at absurdly short intervals.
I just started following this board because I just bought a Toyota Highlander (4cyl) and my brother insists I should put synthetic in it. I'm having a little trouble sorting through all the "facts" here, but one thing that jumped out at me is the references to Oil Analysis. How do you get one? What do you do with the results? Does the lab explain what the results mean?
I think that if I could get an meaningful analysis of the oil in my 4 cyl 94 Accord with 110000 miles, that I changed (dino) oil in every 5000 miles, it would go a long way towards helping decide what to do with my new vehicle.
It is really trend analysis so one sample does not say much unless you have several to compare it to. Initial sample is sort of a baseline as each engine is different. The purpose is to see over time if one indicator goes haywire, ie: iron content goes from an ave of 20 parts per million to 75 on next sample and silicon is also way up. Could indicate a bad air filter, etc. etc. Or chemicals found in coolant begin to increase which may indicate a wearing head gasket. Also, fuel as a % of volume indicates too many starts wiht engine not heating up.
Sample kits can be obtained in many auto parts stores etc, I use Analysis Inc and if you call them they will sell you the plastic suction container( and box to mail back etc) etc. for $.75 each to draw the sample and then return to them. Prove wear metals in PPM as well as chemical analysis of oil fuel, solids and water as a % of volume. 800 222-0071
I alway suggest synthetic oil but that is my pref. Just got a smaple back on my Camry, 135,000 miles, oil changed at 7,500, showed an increase in lead but all others very normal compared to prior years, lead content has slowly been increasing and I need to find out why?
Great answer, thanks. So running a sample on my 110000 mile Accord won't tell me anything about what kind of shape the engine is in. Guess I'll have to read some more on synthetics to make a decision on my new car. thanks, Gary
Being a techno junkie, over twenty years ago I became an Amsoil dealer at the behest of a close friend and associate. He sponsored me in this seeming good opportunity to acquire a dealership so that I could get the far better purchase price compared to the retail. Over the next decade plus a bit, I used synthetic lubricants exclusively in my motor vehicles. I located and tried several brands, ending the period using Red Line-- having abandoned my Amsoil dealership many years before. I found no fault in any of the synthetic brands I tried, but found the effort to acquire synthetics with a minimum of hassle a bit of a challenge. I often changed simply to enjoy a new dimension in the endeavor, and I always kept a keen eye out for better pricing and "more bang for the buck." In the early to mid '90s, I found my enthusiasm for true-believer status waning. I recognize that the current marketplace is replete with brands, and supply is not a problem, but I covet my new status of being free of the dogma that leads all comers into paying far too high a price for the product. For the past oh, seven or eight years, I have been using various brands of (mostly) major oil company motor oils refined from crude. I made this round trip back for several reasons. Not the least of which was that I admitted that the real beneficiary of the low, low levels of wear on my engines was the next owner of the vehicle. I seem to enjoy wasting money on new vehicles. For me to run a car or truck 100K miles from purchase just doesn't happen. I find that I can easily justify changing oil and filter on a 3K basis. The expense is nothing compared to synthetics. Yes, I like clean oil, and I can afford it AND new filters, and still save money over going synthetic. Black oil is dirty whether or not it is perfectly capable of protecting the engine-- as proven by a $20 analysis that must be repeated time and again for trend analysis. I do not want my oil to be black. Like I said, there is an element of emotional satisfaction running through all this. If you are a commercial fleet operator, you may have business justification for synthetics and analysis. For the vast majority of us, it is just a variety of hobby. If any of this reasoning rings true for you, then also consider the capabilities of "SJ" oils to protect. I realize that I leave many bases uncovered as I discontinue this response...
Why do them unless you have a question about performance in lieu of changing oil? The ones I have seen cost about $25 plus the cost of shipping. I can get a basic oil change and filter for just about that. Why pay the extra money to continue to run dirty oil when for just a little more anyone can get completely clean oil.
Why synthetic in a Toyota? One word -- Sludge. See this topic in Edmunds. The vast majority are Toyotas. Now, if you religiously change your Toyota at 3,000 miles, it should not be a problem. But even going to Toyota's severe recommendation of 5,000 can cause SOME vehicles to sludge. If you want to go 5,000 miles between changes, go to synthetic and protect your very expensive investment.
The sludge site shows the grief owners get if they have exceeded the severe schedule and their engine sludges. During the time of the guarantee, change conventional every 3K, and synthetic every 5K. Then you will have done your part.
Don't forget good quality filters changed every 3K.
Yep, if you are going to unload a car under 100,000 I would not even change it with dino every 3000 but go to at least 5000. The second owner will live with my decision.
To each his own and I can live with that. With me, I say that, but I also never know what the future may bring and I may just have to keep the car I have a very long time so I go the synthetic route.
In the years I used synthetics exclusively, I must say that Red Line struck me as the "best of breed." By the way, I do not EVER get oil changes at commercial places. I do them myself, having seen too many ridiculous errors committed by the "EXPERTS."
If obtaining an oil analysis may sound absurd yet it has been likened to a blood analysis how often we have known individuals that have blood analysis periodically to check blood pressure chelosterol (may spelled incorrectly) whether arteries are clogged indicatiing stroke is iminent possibly heart failure.. Could not oil analysis be likened to this offering closer look to the internal workings of the motor indicating failures that may be iminent. A $25.00 petro change will not tell you what could be failing just satisfaction you have clean oil, yet serious problems are on the horizon, a synthetic oil will help allay the problem better not abate yet analysis can give a clean bill of health on the motor or aprise you to possible problems.
I've seen many posts refering to the "high cost" of synthetics. I thought I would mention once again that I use Amsoil synthetic, change once a year with analysis, and the cost is less than if I changed with dino at 3K without analysis.
So I have ruled out the cost factor. I'm still searching for the benefit of a 3K oil change.
When you change your oil and filter at 3K, and your air filter never past 10K, you have the comfort of knowing that you are NOT contributing to accelerated engine wear by neglecting these common maintenance factors. The oil and filter job costs me about $8.00 in supplies and a lot of time lying on concrete. I commune with my tools and vehicle during these interludes , and enjoy the tranquility. I check around the undercarriage for indications of problems, and often examine tires, disc rotors, etc. I kind of like that. Now, the folks that see no attraction in this may well want to avoid it altogether. I do not fault them for that at all. If I just went out to the garage and laid under my car doing nothing productive, well, what would people think? I might end up involved with psychological analysis, and that costs a lot more than oil analysis...
Even though I go about a year between changes I also commune with the engine by crawling underneath every few weeks to check for problems, I guess the difference is I don't pull out the pan to drain the oil and create the mess you do but simply inspect the situation.
I am proving by analysis that I am not contributing to accelerated engine wear. No benefit in a 3K change there.
I spend enough "quality time" under the hood of my vehicles to warrant mechanics status. No problem there. I would much rather be installing go-fast goodies though then slopping around in an oil pan looking for my drain plug.
wtd44, I hear ya! The only way to avoid spills is to use someone else's garage!
I once used the oil mat that Summit racing sells when I was tearing apart my tranny. Works very well at absorbing any spilled fluids, and when you are done, you simply roll it up and toss it, or try to get more uses out of it if you didn't spill too much.
While I find polyolesters to be the ultimate lube, I find molybdenum disulfide the ultimate stink in your garage when you spill gear lube (e.g., GL5). I just never could justify buying Mobil One. For the money, go for diester base, or the more expensive spread, polyolester (such as Red Line).
I just started using Redline and so I'm heartened by wtd44's comments that it's the 'best of the breed'. So far though, I don't see a difference and I've had it in my crankcase for 2 tankfulls.
We'll see ...
I have a buddy with a similar car (Honda Civic) and he uses Mobil 1. Since you can find that stuff around here in 5 quart jugs for $18, I recommended he stick with it and just use Redline MTL in his tranny.
I get a good feeling babying my car ... at least a little. And, since I usually sell my cars to friends and/or family, the payoffs are not merely in my head. >;^}
If you car is well maintained you will not see any difference going from a dino to synthetic or a tougher scenario, one synthetic to another. I use RedLine gear oil in manual tranny where it works wonders but Amsoil motor oil and ATF in everything else. As my supplier is local, no shipping cost, as a dealer ($20/year but I do not resell) I get the 10W30 for $4.35/quart plus tax. With five cars I save the $20 fee plus get tehir marketing hype as well. But if I switched to another oil, regardless of what it is I doubt I would see any changes. Protection is the great unknown in all of this.
There was an article in a Mopar mag a while back where they swapped the engine, tranny, and gears from dino to synthetic, and dynoed before and after the swap. They picked up 10hp at the wheels. That is a significant increase. However, I wouldn't except that kind of gain on all vehicles.
When comparing PAO's to polyol esters/diesters, there is not much difference (a few %) in evaporative loss from heat which leads to lower viscosity and grade degradation. However, when comparing any synthetic to dino, the loss can be upwards of 20% difference.
Consider also that a synthetic (PAO or otherwise) 15W-50 and 20W-50 will provide approximately 25% higher actual viscosity in high-shear areas such as bearings than a petroleum-based 20W-50.
Nothing on the market beats a polyol ester for film strength, and thus accomplishing the best results of all lubricants in keeping the lower end and main bearings off the crankshaft journals, and the rings off the cylinder walls. And that is saying a whole lot...
Comments
87 TLC 240k, I changed synthetic oil and oem filters at 15,000 intervals. Bottom line is: extended drain intervals also work.
While you change oil 80 times, I will change it 16 times. (whose being anal here?) Or from a marketing perspective: Why change it 16 times when 80 times will do?
That's how the Quick Lube places stay in business, use crappy products but at 3000
miles it makes no difference!
Everyone has to live with their beliefs and for most people it is 3000 mile changes as noted in the bible, (Luke (Pres of Pennzoil) Passage 14.2)
If 15-30K synth oil changes work just as well as 3K dino oil changes, why does anyone bother to change at 3K? I guess they like wasting time?
What is the benefit of a 3K oil change over extended drains with a quality synth? If you can't answer that, then don't knock the synth users!
But in connection with my job, I had an opportunity to talk to Lube engineers and our corporate Lube Oil guy concerning oil related problems we were having. I then became aware that I might be wasting valuable time doing more frequent oil changes, putting in inferior products. I then saw more confirming information information in connection with Mobil's testing with extended oil drain intervals and essentially no wear after 200K. Most folks really don't have the accessibility to the information I received or the inclination to research the subject. For most- oil comes in a plastic container-some of it costs $1.25 some costs $5.00. I certainly understand where they are coming from.
Armtdm has some good posts on the subject above. Syn simply just isn't for everyone.
A person could simply read any 20 random posts and learn all they need to know.
my dealer charges $19.99 for an oil+filter change
every 3.5K mi... how expensive is that compared to
protecting my $19,999 investment?
Thank you, gentlemen.
Mr Shiftright
Host
Sportscars, Repair & Maintenance and Classics Boards
Should some new development come along that changes the face of the synthetic oil industry, we could always start a new thread.
vguard
Al
What benefit does a 3K oil change have over an extended drain of say 15K with a quality synthetic and analysis? I have asked this question many times, but still have not seen an answer.
BTW, if you say the 3K is cheaper, that is not necessarily true. Depending on the yearly mileage, extended drains may be less expensive.
If you say there is better protection, please specify why, and don't give us the old song-and-dance of "my car ran 800,000 miles on 3K oil changes, therefore they is the best!" Post some actual information that someone can use.
If the answer is because that's what the car manufacturer's recommendation is for severe duty, I can respect your decision. However, that does not supply an answer to the question, and is simply a warm-and-fuzzy for the owner.
Well... what about it?
Anyway, even after the warranty period is up most people just do not want to spend the money for synthetics. Cost is reasonable if done by owner but $40-$50 if done at a shop and people just do not see the benefit.
The real culprits then are the auto manufacturers/dealers who will not take the initiative to extend the recommended drain intervals knowing full well that they can safely be done, especially if using synths. This is not all auto makers mind you, and the ones who are extending the drain intervals, namely Volkswagon, GM, etc. should be commended.
On the BMW side when owners had to pay for oil changes the interval was 3000 miles, now with the first 3 years free the manuals and dealers all say, come back at 15,000 we don't want to see you. Mercedes now at 15,000.
As I noted before, we have 5 year 150,000 miles coolant, 100,000 mile spark plugs, 50,000 miles severe service tranny fluid life (100,000 normal) but dealers still push 3000 mile oil changes. No doubt the technology and products are here to permit extended drains but dealer service depts would be hurt dramatically, and quick lubes. Also, I think that manufacturers, fearing that owners never check under the hood, with 15,000 mile changes would never check the oil level and they would be hit with a ton of claims. Easy to document a oil change, more difficult to document the oil level was checked and it was okay or added some etc. If dealer salesmen actually instructed new owners on how to check fluids and drive home the need to do so it would be great. All they care about is the sale and most do not even know the maintenance requirements of the cars they sell, at least from my experience. Oh, sure 87 octane okay but look in the manual it says 91, no concept what a timing belt vs chain is etc.
Yep! you have hit the major points on the head. When it is on the customers nickel, 3k intervals or invite engine disaster! When on the dealers nickel, dont see us before 15k (synthetic oil) or you pay for it!!
You surely did not see the posts about oil analysis or chose to ignore them? Just like urine or blood samples, but for cars. Draw a sample and sent them off to the lab, if so in doubt. If a new oil change is 100% useable life left, oil change anaylsis will give you the useful life left, at the mileage snap shot (when you draw the sample).
Without getting too technical you can easily extrapolate the remaining useful life given the trend analysis.
I would gather that the oil analysis you do is "repair trend analysis" for lack of a better word.
In a former life, I used to have a NDI (non destruct inspection) section reporting to me. While we had strict jet engine hr maint and repair guidelines, we also did periodic inspections for a whole host of trend analysis. As a matter of fact the consumer version is a trickle down tech version of this military version.
Obviously, those who do analysis know that the oil is perfectly clean even after 20,000 miles. If I changed at 3K, I would be throwing away perfectly good oil. I wouldn't feel very happy about that.
Ah, it reminds me of a subtle but maybe obscure point. As I have stated in previous posts, I change at 15,000 intervals with oem oil filters and Mobil One synthetic 5-30W to 10-30W. One thing I have noted, is that I am down app 1/4 to 1/2 a quart at roughly the 14,000 mile mark. The point is that if you are changing oil, at say: the 3k interval, you really have no idea of your oil consumption over the longer haul. (in excess of say 3k)
I'm having a little trouble sorting through all the "facts" here, but one thing that jumped out at me is the references to Oil Analysis. How do you get one? What do you do with the results? Does the lab explain what the results mean?
I think that if I could get an meaningful analysis of the oil in my 4 cyl 94 Accord with 110000 miles, that I changed (dino) oil in every 5000 miles, it would go a long way towards helping decide what to do with my new vehicle.
Also, fuel as a % of volume indicates too many starts wiht engine not heating up.
Sample kits can be obtained in many auto parts stores etc, I use Analysis Inc and if you call them they will sell you the plastic suction container( and box to mail back etc) etc. for $.75 each to draw the sample and then return to them. Prove wear metals in PPM as well as chemical analysis of oil fuel, solids and water as a % of volume. 800 222-0071
I alway suggest synthetic oil but that is my pref. Just got a smaple back on my Camry, 135,000 miles, oil changed at 7,500, showed an increase in lead but all others very normal compared to prior years, lead content has slowly been increasing and I need to find out why?
Hope this helps.
thanks,
Gary
Why synthetic in a Toyota? One word -- Sludge. See this topic in Edmunds. The vast majority are Toyotas. Now, if you religiously change your Toyota at 3,000 miles, it should not be a problem. But even going to Toyota's severe recommendation of 5,000 can cause SOME vehicles to sludge. If you want to go 5,000 miles between changes, go to synthetic and protect your very expensive investment.
The sludge site shows the grief owners get if they have exceeded the severe schedule and their engine sludges. During the time of the guarantee, change conventional every 3K, and synthetic every 5K. Then you will have done your part.
Don't forget good quality filters changed every 3K.
To each his own and I can live with that. With me, I say that, but I also never know what the future may bring and I may just have to keep the car I have a very long time so I go the synthetic route.
So I have ruled out the cost factor. I'm still searching for the benefit of a 3K oil change.
Now, the folks that see no attraction in this may well want to avoid it altogether. I do not fault them for that at all. If I just went out to the garage and laid under my car doing nothing productive, well, what would people think? I might end up involved with psychological analysis, and that costs a lot more than oil analysis...
I spend enough "quality time" under the hood of my vehicles to warrant mechanics status. No problem there. I would much rather be installing go-fast goodies though then slopping around in an oil pan looking for my drain plug.
I once used the oil mat that Summit racing sells when I was tearing apart my tranny. Works very well at absorbing any spilled fluids, and when you are done, you simply roll it up and toss it, or try to get more uses out of it if you didn't spill too much.
I just never could justify buying Mobil One. For the money, go for diester base, or the more expensive spread, polyolester (such as Red Line).
We'll see ...
I have a buddy with a similar car (Honda Civic) and he uses Mobil 1. Since you can find that stuff around here in 5 quart jugs for $18, I recommended he stick with it and just use Redline MTL in his tranny.
I get a good feeling babying my car ... at least a little. And, since I usually sell my cars to friends and/or family, the payoffs are not merely in my head. >;^}
--- Bror Jace
When comparing PAO's to polyol esters/diesters, there is not much difference (a few %) in evaporative loss from heat which leads to lower viscosity and grade degradation. However, when comparing any synthetic to dino, the loss can be upwards of 20% difference.
Consider also that a synthetic (PAO or otherwise) 15W-50 and 20W-50 will provide approximately 25% higher actual viscosity in high-shear areas such as bearings than a petroleum-based 20W-50.