SAE Technical Paper Series #951026 (Advances in High Performance Synthetic Oil Technology)Unfortunately it costs money. 10 or 20 bucks-can't remember. If you are interested in that section of the paper email me.
My experience with short trips and synthetics is that it makes no difference, childrens cars while in high school did under 5 mile trips to school and not much else, changed oil once a year filter at 6 months, oil analysis fine, no problem, no excessive moisture, acid or anything. In fact, the TOY I purchased a year ago had Mobil 1 in the crankcase for 1 1/2 years but only 3,500 miles in it. I changed it and had it analyzed, good as new. I will concede that I live in a moderate climate, winters down to 10 degrees above zero at the worst!
And filters, well, at start up oil is thicker and in winter may be too thick (regardless of drain back valve keeping the oil in) to move through the filter so I believe going via the by pass and lubricating the upper areas is by far more important then instant filtration.
My Mazda Protege 98 has 76.000 km. on it. Time for a new oil change is approaching and since the local wal-mart has a nice deal on synt oil and filter change, I was wondering if it makes sense to switch to synt. I've heard stories about leaks, etc. so I'd like to receive your input on this.
It was hard on seals when it first came out 20 years ago. Not anyimore. The reason it causes leaks now is on old seals that are already cracked. Gunk in conventional oil plugs these up. Syn cleans gunk out and holds it in suspension, and this may give the impression that it causes leaks. Not true. It's just cleaning the engine out.
I have a 120,000 mile car that runs pure syn. I first put it in 6,000 miles ago after running blended for years. No leaks. It runs cleaner, the engine has more power, and oil consumption is much lower. My syn is still the color of honey.
It is best however, to use a 25% blend for one oil change then convert over.
When your timing belt is up for changeout, just make sure you change out your cam and crankshaft seals It's just a few dollars more, and will save a duplicate repair bill to replace a soaked timing chain.
The syn won't deterioriate gaskets/seals. If you have a seal/gasket that has some seepage now it will likely be worse with syn. Switching makes sense if you wan't a higher level of protection than conventional oils and /or wish to extend oil changes. Just go back and read previous posts, then decide for yourself.
Meaning, I currently use Valvoline and I'm thinking of switching to Mobil 1. I heard through a not so reliable source a long time ago, that it's not wise to mix two different crudes (Texas and Pennsylvania) any thoughts?
The only reason I'm considering the change, is cost. Wal-Mart is selling M1 for about 40% less than Valvoline for now, but that could change in the future. I don't know if it's a promo or what.
I have a '99 Jeep GC with at-the-time-of-the-switch mileage of 27,500 & decided to go synthetic, but not just with the motor oil. As the Jeep was almost due for the 30,000 mile maintenance anyway, I decided to also change the automatic transmission fluid in the tranny & transfer case as well as the gear lube in the front & rear axles. I found a GREAT mechanic who had previously installed my Gibson cat-back & Edelbrock IAS shocks. He also happens to be an Amsoil dealer, so after reading the posts here, Amsoil's own site & speaking with friends who have switched to syn, I was convinced that this was the right thing to do, so I had him drain everything & fill 'em up with Amsoil. I've since put on about 500 miles, taking trips to the Jersey Shore & up & down the PA Pocono mountains & The NY Catskill mountains, & I'm happy to report that I picked up 1 mile per gallon! Doesn't sound like much, I know, but that's with the a/c on & 4-wheel drive engaged some of the time. Usually that combination costs me a couple of miles per gallon, so this was a pleasant surprise. I suspect the mileage improvement would have been greater had I kept on driving, but unfortunately I had to go home sometime. :-)
I intend to do my next oil change in 7,500 miles, the max "allowed" in the owner's manual. I'm under warranty & I don't wanna take any chances with Chrysler in case there's ever a problem down the road...
Sorry to ramble so much, but I tend to get excited about these things. Just thought I'd share...
for you that's probably better than 5%. Given all the variables its probably as good as it gets. You'll really see the benefits in winter. With starting out in the morning. I have a '94 Toy 4WD (syn throughout) also had '88 Ranger 4WD with syn. Starting out on a 0 Degree winter morning in 4 WD with conventional oil would be brutal to that little 4 cyl. Its good to see someone switch and be able to see results. I'm happy for 'ya.
I am not sure what brand of tranny fluids you used but make sure that it is "Chrysler 7176 approved". I know that Mobil 1 synthetic tranny fluid is recommended for Dexron/Mercon only as it says clearly on the bottle that it is not intended for use in Chrysler tranny requiring type 7176. To learn more about why you need to use type 7176 tranny fluid in your Chrysler product, go to:
"There is no universal automatic transmission fluid. Chrysler four-speed automatics only use Type 7176+ (9606 for 2000 and up vehicles), regardless of what the dipstick or owner's manual says."
"Regardless of what the owner's manual says" Not sure I would trust that information. Sounds like that site is selling their "7176 BRAND"
Mobil1 doesn't say "Dextron/Mercon" only. Its good for Type CJ, Type H, Allison C-4. It can also be used where most high quality hydraulic oil is required (meets Vickers, Sundstrand, Dennison) Also says "compatable with conventional ATF fluids. Isn't CJ the Chrysler spec???
This is what I pulled off from the data sheet on Mobil1.com for their tranny fluid.Applications
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is a superior Dexron® III-qualified product which meets or exceeds the requirements of:
Ford Mercon Allison C-4, Caterpillar TO-2 for on-and off-highway heavy-duty transmissions Denison HFO pump test Vickers 35VQ25 vane pump test Sundstrand piston pump test
It also can provide good performance in cars originally requiring Ford Type H (M2C166-H) and CJ (M2C138-CJ) fluids. It is not a substitute for Chrysler Type 7176 ATF.
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is compatible with mineral oil products and all common seal materials.
Regardless, I do frequent that allpar.com website and people there are very knowledgable. They are not selling anything, just a place where Chrysler owners can post problems and questions and get answers. My 1st tranny fluid change on my Chrysler minivan I used Quaker State ATF3 which is specifically for Chrysler trannys. The change after that I just had the dealer do it. The owner's manual even said clearly thet it does not "recommend" using Dexron/Mercon fluids.
I bought a '96 Chevy Caprice Classic last november with 71,000 miles. It has the LT-1 350. The car is mechanically similar to the Impala SS.
I switched to Mobil 1 at my first oil change. The next day I noticed a steady drip from the oil filter. It was leaking Mobil 1 like a sieve.
It drove it to Walmart and had the oil changed, again, but this time I used regular Valvoline and the leak stopped in a couple days.
I was so annoyed at the oil leak from Mobil 1 that I took the car to my Chevy dealer and he replaced the oil cooler adapter under an extended warranty. The old oil cooler may have been okay but I wanted to be sure... and I did have the extended warranty.
Turns out that the LT-1s in the both the Impala SS and the Caprice Classic have an oil cooler adapter that fits between the oil filter and the engine block. The oil cooler adapter in the Impala SS is designed for "Mobil 1 only". These engines came from the factory with Mobil 1.
The LT-1 in my Caprice does not have the "Mobil 1 only" adapter. My car has the same engine as the Impala SS but it came from the factory with conventional oil. The Caprice is the "family car" version and I guess Chevrolet assumed the average buyer would not want to spring for synthetic oil. If I had known about the whole "Mobil 1 only" thing when I took my car to the dealer I would have asked him to replace my oil cooler adapter with the "Mobil 1" unit. I only learned about it later on an Impala SS website.
Anyway, the standard oil cooler adapter was replaced under an extended warranty and the Chevy dealer told me "DO NOT USE MOBIL ONE".
So, Mobil 1 can cause a leak, depending on the car.
the "o" ring on the old filter might not have been removed. It would cause an oil leak just like you had (been there done that). Mobile 1 or any other oil will not by itself cause a leak like that in such a short time. Walmart probably also changed the filter, which fixed the problem. I'm not an expert on oil coolers, but I have never heard of one for a specific oil.
Actually, Amsoil synthetic ATF is universal, first one to do this. Including the Chrysler products. So far I have used it on Toyotas, Fords, Chevys, Isuzu with no problems.
yea ... Even though I am a Mobil 1 fan. I have no beef with Amsoil. I have their syn gear lube in in my Toy front/rear pumpkin and trans. Works for me. trifivenomad: I'm confused (probably 'cause I just finished a gin/tonic) Are we talking auto trans or engine??? Reason being - when I switched to Mobil 1 ATF in my '94 Corsica the one hose started leaking- coincidence-who knows??? What "adapter" are we talking here??
Here's what the Amsoil site says about the Amsoil ATF that I used: "For DEXRON®III, MERCON®, Ford M2C138-CJ, Ford M2C166-H and Chrysler ATF Plus, MS-7176B Applications"
Further on it also says: "Meets or exceeds the following performance specifications: GM Dexron II, Dexron III Ford Mercon, Mercon V Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4 Allison C-3 & C-4 Caterpillar Powershift Transmission TO-2 & TO-3 Voith Commercial Transmissions GM Strasbourg (European Imports) and Opel
I think you are OK, nothing to worry about. I was just bringing that up because that was brought to my attention a few years back before I was going to change my tranny fluid in my Chrysler. After reading that, I returned the Dexron/Mercon and bought the Quaker State ATF+3.
I have a 99 Toyota camary with almost 60k miles on it. does it make sence to switch to Synthetic? if it make sence, what step should I take? should I use blend first? I also have a 2001 Sennia with just 1000 miles. when is the good time to switch to synthetic?
See the entry I made yesterday in Oil Filters What is best and Why.and the entries following it.
Here's my take on both of your cars. They are probably using a Toyota 2.2 or 3.0 engine. If these engines are neglected in any way, black sludge forms. 3-5 thousand dollars to repair it. Sienna's are especially prone to this problem. New engines are not as tolerant of oil problems as older ones. Synthetic for both of those cars is pure protection. Toyota gives the impression that severe driving is rare when in fact it is the norm for many drivers. If you have not followed the severe schedule and have a problem Toyota will blame only you.
Use synthetic for 5,000 miles, but change the filter every 2500. That way you will have exceeded the warranty.
Don't follow the owners manual. I would never run anything but a synthetic or hydrocracked oil in any Toyota with these engines.
Yes, before you convert you should run a 20-25% synthetic blend for 3,000 miles. Change the oil at a specialty store or the dealer so you will have independent proof that the oil changes were done regularly.
The Sienna. After 3,000, put in a blend, and after 6,000 run pure synthetic. This vehicle is especially prone to sludge. See www.carreview.com
Is it ok to switch synthetic oil for winter and back to conventional oil in the spring? Will the switch back and forth cause leaks? My '99 Maxima has 28,084 miles at the present time.
I have some Canadian friends who do that every year. They don't have problems. At 28K Seals should not be worn.
Remember synthetic doesn't dry seals or cause leaks. However, being uniform size molecules it will exploit any existing leaks. Just change a valve gasket when leaking becomes evident, and replace the cam and crankshaft seals when the timing chain is replaced.
Are you folks so strapped for cash that you actually consider going from synthetic to dino seasonally to save what?? $40 a year?? Good grief! What do you think an engine overhaul costs? I am constantly amazed at how CHEAP people are--how "penny wise and pound foolish"! Okay, I'm ready for your stupid replies.
I have used syn for a long time and wouldn't use anything else. But I also know that a heavy majority like 95+% including some very intelligent people do not wish to pay $5 a quart when they can pay $1.25 a quart for some very good oil that is certified to lubricate their engine effectively. You can tell them all of the benefits yada yada yada....ad infinadum. But I've been to the mountain on trying to convince people to switch. The majority ain't buying it. I can live with that and so can they.
I hear you loud and clear. I would guess that max about 2% might be avid users. For me, the benefits are: 1. superior lubrication 2. longer intervals between changes.
I have done well with 15k intervals and have engines at various high(240k) and low(14k) miles with no bad effects.
The cars are Toyota Landcruisers and a Z06 Corvette. I really like not having to get done or do myself, conventional oil changes at 3000-5000 when I can get them done at 15k
I use synthetic oil in both of my cars, and I'd like to use it in my lawn mower. The current oil is Craftsman SAE 30 Motor Oil. Is there a synthetic equivalent, and does anyone have any experience using it in their mower?
I found the following artical from toyota web site. I think what toyota saying is: API grade SJ petroleum-based engine oil is good enough to protect my car. If I want to use synthetic oil, I still need to change the oil every 5000 miles (toyota do not buy that synthetic can protect the engine longer than petroleum-based engine oil) to keep my car covered by toyota warranty.
All Toyota vehicles come from the factory with natural petroleum-based engine oil. Toyota is currently recommending American Petroleum Institute (API) grade SJ petroleum-based engine oil. In moderate climates, this oil should have a Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) viscosity rating of 5W-30. In our high mileage tests with preventative maintenance performed at the recommended intervals, the recommended natural petroleum-based oil has provided excellent service.
If you decide to use synthetic oil for the engine, it is best not to switch until the first scheduled oil change. Synthetic oil should meet or exceed the above specifications. Even if synthetic oil is used, we do not recommend a longer oil change interval. Also, once synthetic oil is used, you should keep using it and not switch back and forth with natural petroleum-based oil.
If the engine oil that you use, whether natural or synthetic, does not meet the above specifications or is defective, any resulting damage to the engine will not be covered by the Toyota New Vehicle Limited Warranty. You can protect yourself against this possibility by having your maintenance performed by a factory-authorized Toyota dealer.
Yep, I use synthetic in my mower and lawn vac. I use the cheapest I can find, usually Havoline at $3.19/QUART and change it once during the season, been using it for years a 10W30. Craftsman mower and the 10W30 is fine.
For my cars I use exclusively Amsoil and Toyota Camry SE V6 a 92 model has 135,000 miles and I change oil and filter every 7,500 and have for past seven years. Oil analysis great. On other cars I go once a year with a filter at 6 months. Just changed the Camry tranny and diff ATF fluid using Amsoil ATF, been doing that since new and switched the ole Toyota at 1,000 miles. Granted, a 92 when Toyota still made great cars!
I have also given up converting non believers, I show them oil analysis reports after 12,000 miles since last change to no avail. They only see $5/quart and continue to go through the hassle of a quick lube and pay the $25 to keep their baby under warranty every 3000 miles. So, let them continue.
The following quote is interesting from previous post "if the engine oil that you use, whether natural or synthetic, does not meet the above specifications or is defective, any resulting damage to the engine will not be covered by the Toyota New Vehicle Limited Warranty. You can protect yourself against this possibility by having your maintenance performed by a factory-authorized Toyota dealer. "
To prove defective the dealer "must" perform an oil analysis because that is the only way the dealer could prove the oil was defective and the cause of the failure. The failure to change oil cannot void a warrant, only the failure of the oil itself can void the warranty. Under most 36,000 mile warranties almost all engine failures would be manufacturing problems as wear occurs over long period of time. Only not changing oil every 7,500 with dino couild cause failure under 36,000 miles. The worst oil and filter made if changed every 7,500 would not blow an engine at 36,000 miles. This is a great guise to get Toyotas in to the dealership for oil change service.
Toyotas can sludge on occasion. See engine sludge topic, and the vast majority are Toyotas.
The problem with extending service to 7500 is that if you have sludge then the rep will say you should have changed it according to the severe schedule of 5000. Absolutely accurate records of oil changes must also be maintained. Since you didn't they will justifiably say "It's not Toyota's problem." While armtdm is correct philosophically, the sludging is small but serious problem. Toyota will do whatever they can to not have to pay for essentially an overhaul.
Toyota was recently listed as #19 in company and dealer customer service satisfaction. This contributes to the problem.
On other vehicles it is a very rare occurence, most often solely attributable to owner neglect.
When I buy a Toyota (strongly considering a Highlander) I will only run synthetic, and change it at 5,000 mile intervals to stay within warranty.
They cannot "justifiably " say it if the oil did not fail. Simply not changing it at 5000 mile intervals does not mean the oil failed!!!! Not changing it at a dealer is ot a cause either. Oil is not covered under warranty so the dealer cannot state that it must be done there or using Toyota oil or filter (filters not covered undeer warranty either) Toyota must prove the oil failed. Thus, (and I have been reading the sludge issue for months) before any work was done on a sludged (alleged) engine I would get an oil analysis. If the oil good Toyota and I would see each other in court! As noted in the sludge forum by catgem, oil changed at 5000 mile intervals causing a sludged engine under 20,000 miles, sorry, either oil not changed or manufacturer has a problem. Simply should not happen!
Myself, I never go back to dealer once car is purchased, change own oil using synthetics, keep receipts, oil analysis once a year and have not had an issue. I do keep tabs though via frequent dipstick checks and look inside if filler neck makes this possible.
I put 185,000 miles on a '96 Neon before selling it in May. I only used dino oil and I didn't have any engine problems. Sure, I am sure that I could have used synthetic and done just as well, but since dino works why would anyone pay the extra money on Synth? Aren't you guys who use synth being just a little nutty?
Yeah I use a Toyota dealer for my 15,000 mile interval oil changes. I asked them about the engine warranty. The service manager looked me dead in the eye and said it was absolutely no problem. On the practical side 36,000 miles clicks away pretty quick and the odds of engine failure due to oil failure of conv or syn is HIGHLY remote. The way that they legally and marketing wise phrase it, while it does not say it, would lead one to believe that disaster is immenient.
#1793
The dealer charges 30 bucks for 3k oil change x 5= $ 150.00(divided by 15000) or .01 cents a mile.
The (same) dealer charges me 18 bucks and I supply oil filter and oil or 45. total or .003 cents a mile.
While you may call it nutty, I have no problem with one paying upwards of 3.33 x more for the same protection. Plus you are going under the vehicle 4 less times not to mention the time involved.
3k oil change? Why change oil at 3k? My owner's manual on my new Taco says 5k or 7.5k. On my neon I had my oil change more frequently, somewhere between 3.5k and 4k. There is really no reason to change dino at 3k.
Most of the people who've been posting to this forum seem to be changing their oil more frequently than you. I can understand using synth if you are changing oil as infrequently as you are (assuming the engine holds up) but if you change oil more frequently I don't see the point to synth.
I actually crawled under my car zero times but who's counting? :-)
So what you guys are saying is the reason to use synth is that it lasts significantly longer and it is cheaper if you change it infrequently?
Has anyone seen an idependent study that shows how long dino oil can last before it needs changing? I know that oil can last much longer than 3k. Toyota is telling me that I should change my oil in my new truck at either 5k or 7.5k depending on severity. I wonder if it would be fine at 10k?
#1795 I am sure that doing the math for a 5k oil change would not be a stretch for you. So I won't bore you with it.
Also as a practical matter, synthetic lasts between 3-5 x longer (depending on how you drive and your conditions) than already wonderful conventional oil. So if you go 7.5k with conventional, the truth is going 3 to 5x longer will work. I change mine at 15k because that usually is app a yr.'s worth of driving. So in a real sense I am underutilizing the oil product. Also, as we know, there are no real standards for oil filters, but you can change that almost at will. Most folks just rather do it all at once for a whole host of reasons.
The same oil analysis can also be done with synthetic and conventional oil. A series of them can serve as a base line.
I went app 240k on syn, but go rid of the truck because I got bored with it. Plus the fact that it was approaching 16 yrs old.
to the rest I too purchased a new ISUZU and totally trusted the dealer to perform all of the required services. Literally 6 months after I paid for the car the transmission went out. But the dealer said that when they did the maintenence check it was clean. No responsibility.
New engines run hotter. Oil in new engines can fail sooner. This quote is from blackstone-labs.com
Automotive engine technology has been improving rapidly and engines are costly to replace and repair. Most consumers aren't aware that new engines are more sensitive to oil quality. New engines tend to die if the oil is over run.
If I spend $20-$30K on a new vehicle, I'd rather be conservative. Deviating from the severe schedule during the warranty period gives the carmaker a decisive excuse. "Well you obviously should have changed the oil more frequently." And it's a valid argument if a problem arises.
I'm not trying to bash Toyota. Like a mentioned, I'm seriously considering purchasing one. But Toyota's oil situtation is not bulletproof. I'm not going to mess with.
On a Mazda, or Ford I would immediately have the dealer drain out the conventional transmission fluid and put in synthetic, and seriously consider a transmission cooler. Why, these vehicles have serious transmission failures. These, like Toyota's sludge problem are caused by excessive heat. Synthetic, while not perfect has better resistence to degradation at higher temperatures. It's cheap insurance on a major investment.
If I did run conventional, I would change it every 3,000 miles like do in the cars I run conventional in.
If I've done my part to be more than reasonable, then if I have a failure and complain against Toyota I can have a better chance of success.
To Sentrafan: Keep the faith, baby! I'd like to put Mobil 1 in my 17hp, V-twin John Deere lawn tractor, also. It would probably be okay. Look, I fly turbine-engined helicopters for a living, and they use synthetic in everything--engine, transmission, gearboxes. And I change the Mobil 1 and filter every 3000 miles in my Ford Explorers and don't worry at all about $4 per qt. What is money, anyway? What we buy stuff with. And I'm running out a set of Firestone Wilderness ATs on one of them. Wear 'em out and get a free set of tires next year. (Life is a risk--fall down in your bathtub and break your back). Don't sweat the small stuff!
Comments
Al
And filters, well, at start up oil is thicker and in winter may be too thick (regardless of drain back valve keeping the oil in) to move through the filter so I believe going via the by pass and lubricating the upper areas is by far more important then instant filtration.
Thanks in advance.
I have a 120,000 mile car that runs pure syn. I first put it in 6,000 miles ago after running blended for years. No leaks. It runs cleaner, the engine has more power, and oil consumption is much lower. My syn is still the color of honey.
It is best however, to use a 25% blend for one oil change then convert over.
When your timing belt is up for changeout, just make sure you change out your cam and crankshaft seals It's just a few dollars more, and will save a duplicate repair bill to replace a soaked timing chain.
go wrong?
armtdm... I think he was just making an analogy to the practice of not changing from oil brand to another.
I've since put on about 500 miles, taking trips to the Jersey Shore & up & down the PA Pocono mountains & The NY Catskill mountains, & I'm happy to report that I picked up 1 mile per gallon! Doesn't sound like much, I know, but that's with the a/c on & 4-wheel drive engaged some of the time. Usually that combination costs me a couple of miles per gallon, so this was a pleasant surprise. I suspect the mileage improvement would have been greater had I kept on driving, but unfortunately I had to go home sometime. :-)
I intend to do my next oil change in 7,500 miles, the max "allowed" in the owner's manual. I'm under warranty & I don't wanna take any chances with Chrysler in case there's ever a problem down the road...
Sorry to ramble so much, but I tend to get excited about these things. Just thought I'd share...
http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
"There is no universal automatic transmission fluid. Chrysler four-speed automatics only use Type 7176+ (9606 for 2000 and up vehicles), regardless of what the dipstick or owner's manual says."
"Regardless of what the owner's manual says" Not sure I would trust that information. Sounds like that site is selling their "7176 BRAND"
Mobil1 doesn't say "Dextron/Mercon" only. Its good for Type CJ, Type H, Allison C-4. It can also be used where most high quality hydraulic oil is required (meets Vickers, Sundstrand, Dennison) Also says "compatable with conventional ATF fluids. Isn't CJ the Chrysler spec???
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is a superior Dexron® III-qualified product which meets or exceeds the requirements of:
Ford Mercon
Allison C-4, Caterpillar TO-2 for on-and off-highway heavy-duty transmissions
Denison HFO pump test
Vickers 35VQ25 vane pump test
Sundstrand piston pump test
It also can provide good performance in cars originally requiring Ford Type H (M2C166-H) and CJ (M2C138-CJ) fluids. It is not a substitute for Chrysler Type 7176 ATF.
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is compatible with mineral oil products and all common seal materials.
Regardless, I do frequent that allpar.com website and people there are very knowledgable. They are not selling anything, just a place where Chrysler owners can post problems and questions and get answers. My 1st tranny fluid change on my Chrysler minivan I used Quaker State ATF3 which is specifically for Chrysler trannys. The change after that I just had the dealer do it. The owner's manual even said clearly thet it does not "recommend" using Dexron/Mercon fluids.
I switched to Mobil 1 at my first oil change. The next day I noticed a steady drip from the oil filter. It was leaking Mobil 1 like a sieve.
It drove it to Walmart and had the oil changed, again, but this time I used regular Valvoline and the leak stopped in a couple days.
I was so annoyed at the oil leak from Mobil 1 that I took the car to my Chevy dealer and he replaced the oil cooler adapter under an extended warranty. The old oil cooler may have been okay but I wanted to be sure... and I did have the extended warranty.
Turns out that the LT-1s in the both the Impala SS and the Caprice Classic have an oil cooler adapter that fits between the oil filter and the engine block. The oil cooler adapter in the Impala SS is designed for "Mobil 1 only". These engines came from the factory with Mobil 1.
The LT-1 in my Caprice does not have the "Mobil 1 only" adapter. My car has the same engine as the Impala SS but it came from the factory with conventional oil. The Caprice is the "family car" version and I guess Chevrolet assumed the average buyer would not want to spring for synthetic oil. If I had known about the whole "Mobil 1 only" thing when I took my car to the dealer I would have asked him to replace my oil cooler adapter with the "Mobil 1" unit. I only learned about it later on an Impala SS website.
Anyway, the standard oil cooler adapter was replaced under an extended warranty and the Chevy dealer told me "DO NOT USE MOBIL ONE".
So, Mobil 1 can cause a leak, depending on the car.
trifivenomad: I'm confused (probably 'cause I just finished a gin/tonic) Are we talking auto trans or engine??? Reason being - when I switched to Mobil 1 ATF in my '94 Corsica the one hose started leaking- coincidence-who knows??? What "adapter" are we talking here??
Further on it also says:
"Meets or exceeds the following performance specifications:
GM Dexron II, Dexron III
Ford Mercon, Mercon V
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
Allison C-3 & C-4
Caterpillar Powershift Transmission TO-2 & TO-3
Voith Commercial Transmissions
GM Strasbourg (European Imports) and Opel
So I think I'm ok...
if it make sence, what step should I take? should I use blend first?
I also have a 2001 Sennia with just 1000 miles. when is the good time to switch to synthetic?
Here's my take on both of your cars. They are probably using a Toyota 2.2 or 3.0 engine. If these engines are neglected in any way, black sludge forms. 3-5 thousand dollars to repair it. Sienna's are especially prone to this problem. New engines are not as tolerant of oil problems as older ones. Synthetic for both of those cars is pure protection. Toyota gives the impression that severe driving is rare when in fact it is the norm for many drivers. If you have not followed the severe schedule and have a problem Toyota will blame only you.
Use synthetic for 5,000 miles, but change the filter every 2500. That way you will have exceeded the warranty.
Don't follow the owners manual. I would never run anything but a synthetic or hydrocracked oil in any Toyota with these engines.
Yes, before you convert you should run a 20-25% synthetic blend for 3,000 miles. Change the oil at a specialty store or the dealer so you will have independent proof that the oil changes were done regularly.
The Sienna. After 3,000, put in a blend, and after 6,000 run pure synthetic. This vehicle is especially prone to sludge. See www.carreview.com
Remember synthetic doesn't dry seals or cause leaks. However, being uniform size molecules it will exploit any existing leaks. Just change a valve gasket when leaking becomes evident, and replace the cam and crankshaft seals when the timing chain is replaced.
seasonally to save what?? $40 a year??
Good grief! What do you think an engine overhaul
costs? I am constantly amazed at how CHEAP people
are--how "penny wise and pound foolish"!
Okay, I'm ready for your stupid replies.
--- Bror Jace
I hear you loud and clear. I would guess that max about 2% might be avid users. For me, the benefits are: 1. superior lubrication 2. longer intervals between changes.
I have done well with 15k intervals and have engines at various high(240k) and low(14k) miles with no bad effects.
The cars are Toyota Landcruisers and a Z06 Corvette. I really like not having to get done or do myself, conventional oil changes at 3000-5000 when I can get them done at 15k
I use synthetic oil in both of my cars, and I'd like to use it in my lawn mower. The current oil is Craftsman SAE 30 Motor Oil. Is there a synthetic equivalent, and does anyone have any experience using it in their mower?
Thanks.
All Toyota vehicles come from the factory with natural petroleum-based engine oil. Toyota is currently recommending American Petroleum Institute (API) grade SJ petroleum-based engine oil. In moderate climates, this oil should have a Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) viscosity rating of 5W-30. In our high mileage tests with preventative maintenance performed at the recommended intervals, the recommended natural petroleum-based oil has provided excellent service.
If you decide to use synthetic oil for the engine, it is best not to switch until the first scheduled oil change. Synthetic oil should meet or exceed the above specifications. Even if synthetic oil is used, we do not recommend a longer oil change interval. Also, once synthetic oil is used, you should keep using it and not switch back and forth with natural petroleum-based oil.
If the engine oil that you use, whether natural or synthetic, does not meet the above specifications or is defective, any resulting damage to the engine will not be covered by the Toyota New Vehicle Limited Warranty. You can protect yourself against this possibility by having your maintenance performed by a factory-authorized Toyota dealer.
For my cars I use exclusively Amsoil and Toyota Camry SE V6 a 92 model has 135,000 miles and I change oil and filter every 7,500 and have for past seven years. Oil analysis great. On other cars I go once a year with a filter at 6 months. Just changed the Camry tranny and diff ATF fluid using Amsoil ATF, been doing that since new and switched the ole Toyota at 1,000 miles. Granted, a 92 when Toyota still made great cars!
I have also given up converting non believers, I show them oil analysis reports after 12,000 miles since last change to no avail. They only see $5/quart and continue to go through the hassle of a quick lube and pay the $25 to keep their baby under warranty every 3000 miles. So, let them continue.
"if the engine oil that you use, whether natural or synthetic, does not meet the
above specifications or is defective, any resulting damage to the engine will not
be covered by the Toyota New Vehicle Limited Warranty. You can protect
yourself against this possibility by having your maintenance performed by a
factory-authorized Toyota dealer. "
To prove defective the dealer "must" perform an oil analysis because that is the only way the dealer could prove the oil was defective and the cause of the failure. The failure to change oil cannot void a warrant, only the failure of the oil itself can void the warranty. Under most 36,000 mile warranties almost all engine failures would be manufacturing problems as wear occurs over long period of time. Only not changing oil every 7,500 with dino couild cause failure under 36,000 miles. The worst oil and filter made if changed every 7,500 would not blow an engine at 36,000 miles. This is a great guise to get Toyotas in to the dealership for oil change service.
The problem with extending service to 7500 is that if you have sludge then the rep will say you should have changed it according to the severe schedule of 5000. Absolutely accurate records of oil changes must also be maintained. Since you didn't they will justifiably say "It's not Toyota's problem." While armtdm is correct philosophically, the sludging is small but serious problem. Toyota will do whatever they can to not have to pay for essentially an overhaul.
Toyota was recently listed as #19 in company and dealer customer service satisfaction. This contributes to the problem.
On other vehicles it is a very rare occurence, most often solely attributable to owner neglect.
When I buy a Toyota (strongly considering a Highlander) I will only run synthetic, and change it at 5,000 mile intervals to stay within warranty.
Myself, I never go back to dealer once car is purchased, change own oil using synthetics, keep receipts, oil analysis once a year and have not had an issue. I do keep tabs though via frequent dipstick checks and look inside if filler neck makes this possible.
Yeah I use a Toyota dealer for my 15,000 mile interval oil changes. I asked them about the engine warranty. The service manager looked me dead in the eye and said it was absolutely no problem. On the practical side 36,000 miles clicks away pretty quick and the odds of engine failure due to oil failure of conv or syn is HIGHLY remote. The way that they legally and marketing wise phrase it, while it does not say it, would lead one to believe that disaster is immenient.
#1793
The dealer charges 30 bucks for 3k oil change x 5= $ 150.00(divided by 15000) or .01 cents a mile.
The (same) dealer charges me 18 bucks and I supply oil filter and oil or 45. total or .003 cents a mile.
While you may call it nutty, I have no problem with one paying upwards of 3.33 x more for the same protection. Plus you are going under the vehicle 4 less times not to mention the time involved.
Most of the people who've been posting to this forum seem to be changing their oil more frequently than you. I can understand using synth if you are changing oil as infrequently as you are (assuming the engine holds up) but if you change oil more frequently I don't see the point to synth.
"I can understand using synth if you are changing oil as infrequently as you are (assuming the engine holds up"
These statements are contradictory.
Anyway in 185,000, you crawled under your car 52 times while I will have crawled under mine 16 times. Who's nutty?
So what you guys are saying is the reason to use synth is that it lasts significantly longer and it is cheaper if you change it infrequently?
Has anyone seen an idependent study that shows how long dino oil can last before it needs changing? I know that oil can last much longer than 3k. Toyota is telling me that I should change my oil in my new truck at either 5k or 7.5k depending on severity. I wonder if it would be fine at 10k?
I am sure that doing the math for a 5k oil change would not be a stretch for you. So I won't bore you with it.
Also as a practical matter, synthetic lasts between 3-5 x longer (depending on how you drive and your conditions) than already wonderful conventional oil. So if you go 7.5k with conventional, the truth is going 3 to 5x longer will work. I change mine at 15k because that usually is app a yr.'s worth of driving. So in a real sense I am underutilizing the oil product. Also, as we know, there are no real standards for oil filters, but you can change that almost at will. Most folks just rather do it all at once for a whole host of reasons.
The same oil analysis can also be done with synthetic and conventional oil. A series of them can serve as a base line.
I went app 240k on syn, but go rid of the truck because I got bored with it. Plus the fact that it was approaching 16 yrs old.
to the rest I too purchased a new ISUZU and totally trusted the dealer to perform all of the required services. Literally 6 months after I paid for the car the transmission went out. But the dealer said that when they did the maintenence check it was clean. No responsibility.
New engines run hotter. Oil in new engines can fail sooner. This quote is from blackstone-labs.com
Automotive engine technology has been improving rapidly and engines are costly to replace and repair. Most consumers aren't aware that new engines are more sensitive to oil quality. New engines tend to die if the oil is over run.
If I spend $20-$30K on a new vehicle, I'd rather be conservative. Deviating from the severe schedule during the warranty period gives the carmaker a decisive excuse. "Well you obviously should have changed the oil more frequently." And it's a valid argument if a problem arises.
I'm not trying to bash Toyota. Like a mentioned, I'm seriously considering purchasing one. But Toyota's oil situtation is not bulletproof. I'm not going to mess with.
On a Mazda, or Ford I would immediately have the dealer drain out the conventional transmission fluid and put in synthetic, and seriously consider a transmission cooler. Why, these vehicles have serious transmission failures. These, like Toyota's sludge problem are caused by excessive heat. Synthetic, while not perfect has better resistence to degradation at higher temperatures. It's cheap insurance on a major investment.
If I did run conventional, I would change it every 3,000 miles like do in the cars I run conventional in.
If I've done my part to be more than reasonable, then if I have a failure and complain against Toyota I can have a better chance of success.
and don't worry at all about $4 per qt. What is money, anyway? What we buy stuff with.
And I'm running out a set of Firestone Wilderness ATs on one of them.
Wear 'em out and get a free set of tires next year. (Life is a risk--fall down in your bathtub and break your back). Don't sweat the small stuff!