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Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Personally; If it were my vehicle, I would go the full 7500 miles with synthetic. I personally use Mobil 1 because I have read a lot of stuff that they publish in SAE papers. The amount of abuse the oil can take vs conventional oil is amazing. The problem with the Toyota seems to be centered around the cooling passages where temperatures get around 50 degrees higher than accepted temperatures. Since synthetic oils can function in atmospheres well beyond 100 degrees past conventional oil there is more than enough breathing room here. I personally just think you are wasting time and money by changing syn at 5K. But if it makes you feel better go for it!!
  • gslevegsleve Member Posts: 183
    I would concur with adc100 additinally one who is fimiliar with synthetics know that they have a higher tolerance to heat they are thermally stable and therefore are not prone to high oxidation there molecules are universal whereas the crude oil varies in sizes and the lighter molecules break down and oxidize giving way to a sludge or varnish issue, if you comply to a regiment of 5k to 7.5k with mobil 1 or another viable synthetic not hydrocraked (preferably mobil 1,amsoil,redline,maybe a parasynthetic schaeffers)you'll be in the safety zone.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I have been following this Toyota Sienna with interest. It would seem that most of the Sienna's with the sludge problem have been with conventional oil. Again please correct me if I am wrong.


    The problem seems to highlight two of six important properties of synthetic oil. (there are app 6 total)


    One being: % sulfated ash (lower # being better).


    "% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life."...


    Two being: flash point (higher # being better),


    "Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil....The higher the flash point the better"....


    Parts of the article quoted and the full text of an interesting article is at:


     http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-overview.html


    The bottom line is that: 1. synthetic has a very very low % sulfated ash content (not measurable)

    2. synthetic oil has a higher flash point than conventional oil.

  • brucer2brucer2 Member Posts: 157
    The definition and flowdown of requirements os a formal, documented process. This is the sort of thing system engineers do for a living. The way I stated it is the way its done.
    An MSDS indicates what's in a chemical product. Unless you really know something about chemical additives in an oil, including their interaction and what amounts do what, you may as well be picking oil by taste, because you can't predict how it will perform.
    The only thing of much use to an informed laymen is the technical data sheet for a particular oil. There are also some standard oil tests done in running engines. They are however done in a lab with only several different engines, following a standardized sequence. It's not real world and may not have been done on the type of engine you have.
    The only valid testing is to have the oil analyzed periodically for a particular engine. Then you know if the oil is doing what it's supposed to.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #2753
    "The only valid testing is to have the oil analyzed periodically for a particular engine. Then you know if the oil is doing what it's supposed to. "

    The other thing that is not mentioned much is this can be said for both synthetic and probably more importantly for conventional oil.
  • charlesb_lacharlesb_la Member Posts: 37
    From the API website


    "API intentionally omitted “SI” and “SK” from the sequence of categories because the letters are commonly associated with other organizations or systems."


    http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/ACF28.pdf

  • coonhoundcoonhound Member Posts: 174
    There are a lot of post here where the agenda is to trash a certain product or vehicle. For instance jgriff is on many sites with opinions on everything. On Oldsmobile Intrigue site there is many many post about brakes for instance. Becoming concerned, today I checked the brakes at 38,000 miles. The pads are only down about 40% at this mileage. I have many more examples but for sake of brevity suffice it to say that you must take most of this info. here with a grain of salt. There are some good post, but scan for the repeat names and credibility.
  • canccanc Member Posts: 715
    Intrigues are nice cars... too bad they'll be discontinued soon. I hate to see Olds go.

    What kind of synthetic oil do you use in your Intrigue? When do you change it?
  • acelinkacelink Member Posts: 106
    I was looking at Mobil 1® Tri-Synthetic™ Formula 0W-40. Mobil says, "European ACEA A3/B3/B4-98 Approved." Anyone tell me what these standards mean and/or show me websites explaining them in English?

    Also, anyone heard or used Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40?
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Stands for European Automotive Manufactures Association. These are performance standards imposed on automonive manufactures. They are performance standards which must be run in certified labs.


    Basically:


    A=Gasoline


    B=Light Duty Diesel


    1=Low Friction,Low Viscosity


    2=General Purpose General Purpose Normal Drain


    3=High Performance Extended Drain


    4= This is a diesel spec for I think stable viscosity


    5=High Performance, Extended Drain, Low friction/viscosity,


    98 for example is the year of the spec


    Link:

    http://www.acea.be/acea/oilsequences2002.pdf

  • coonhoundcoonhound Member Posts: 174
    I use Mobil 1 oil, and try to have 5w/30 in it for the winter months, and 10w/30 in it for the summer months. Change it per the light but no more than 6000 miles between changes. It is a 2000 model and had the intermediate shaft and rack replaced under warranty. Just because GM stands behind there product. Have not had defective brakes, flickering head lights, and noisy jounce bumpers, whatever that is. Obviously I think it is the best vehicle GM has ever produced. They spent so much money in design and producing the short star that they didn't have any advertising budget left etc. etc.
  • canccanc Member Posts: 715
    Yeah, and now I heard they'd kill the Shortstar?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I have a 2000 Buick with this engine, with the SC. Using synthetic 10W30 as recommended, I am using a 12,000 mile change interval, filter at 6000 which is when I reset the indicator light. Analysis looks good for 12,000 miles. Of course, I live in a moderate climate in Virginia
  • canccanc Member Posts: 715
    I think the Intrigue has the DOHC 3.5L V6, and not the 3.8 OHV.

    Why does GM recommend 10W30 for your Buick, yet Toyota recommends 5W30 for my Solara? Would 10W30 offer anything more than the 5W30?
  • seguyseguy Member Posts: 133
    who makes a 5w-20 grade in synthetic. No luck at the auto parts stores, only 5w-20 conventional oils found.
    thanks.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Well, Amsoil does make a 5W20 synthetic in their XL series

    As to why the 10W30 is in the manual for the 3.8L, no idea. 5W30 is suggested if temp is really low, consistently around zero.

    Even in my Mercury wher the 5W is recommended I used a 10W for two years and now use a 0W but I see no diff in start up etc. Maybe just not cold enough here
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Early Intrigues had the non-supercharged "3800" 6-cylinder. At some point (don't remember when) they switched over to the 3.5L V6.
  • woodwjwwoodwjw Member Posts: 2
    Has anyone done oil analysis on their vehicles comparing a quality dino oil vs synthetic? I never did a conventional oil analysis before I switched to synthetic but wish I had.
  • catcher09catcher09 Member Posts: 7
    After reading this post about Sienna owners having sludge problem, I wonder if these owners are using conventional motor oil and changed their oil at every 7,500 miles or 6 months interval?

    Does anyone using 100% synthetic (not blend) motor oil and changed their oil at above stated interval also experiencing engine sludge problem?

    I have a 2001 Sienna and I had my first oil change at 2K. I replaced with Mobil 1 oil & filter. I changed the oil 6 month later using Amsoil oil & filter. I have no problem. I changed from Mobil 1 to Amsoil because Mobil recently changed their formula in their production of Mobil 1.

    Maybe using 100% synthetic motor oil might avoid sludge problem because synthetic oil can absorb a higher tempeture so the oil would not breakdown so easily. Any comments welcome and will definitely help all Sienna owners.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    with a quality PAO oil even with extended drain intervals. I've posted information on a test vehicle doing 2 very short trips per day (not warming up) and no oil/filter changes for 5 years. Clean engine when torn down.
    And again the notion that Mobil was recently changed-if true- would probably occur to improve additive package. Still looking for information-as yet-no proof. But again-nothing wrong with Amsoil.
  • brucer2brucer2 Member Posts: 157
    On the Maxima board, there was an oil analysis spreadsheet with both types of oil. You can run synthetic longer. The caveat is that you have to drive under the same conditions as the person who had the analysis done. If you live in a city, do lots of short trips in cold weather and don't drive on the hwy much, no oil should stay in the crakcase very long.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I have analysis on several cars where the OEM (assume it was dino) was analyzed at the first change and then later with synthetic. However, the problems are several in doing this. My experience is that it takes about 20,000 miles for all signs of silicon gasket wear to get out of the picture and engine still breaking in over the first 5000 miles or so so the wear metals are much different. As expected the second oil change has lower wear metals etc. and the additive packages cannot be compared either. Ihave not done this comparison on engines I have switched to synthetic later in life
  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    I have had 2 Intrigues. The first was a 1998 (that got totalled) with the 3800 engine. The current one is a 2001 with the 3.5 engine. The reason why GM switched was because, in usual GM fashion, they released the car before it had the engine it was supposed to have. The 3.5 is a twin-cam designed to compete with the twin-cams from the Japanese. 1998 and 1999 Intrigues came with the 3800 engine with the exception of the top of the line 1999 GLS models that got the 3.5. Later during the '99 model year the other two models gradually got the 3.5 installed.

    Now that the history lesson is out the way, back on to this thread's topic.

    The 3.5 uses 5W-30. I was surprised because my '98 w/3800 used 10W-30. While the owners manual says that 10W-30 can be used, it is not the "recommended" grade. I've been told that the switch to 5W-30 was because it has more moving parts than the 3800 pushrod so the thin oil would better work its way thru the engine better and easier. I don't know. One "characteristic" of the 3.5 is that it tends to burn one quart of oil between changes. Since 5W-30 is for colder temps, Pennsylvania doesn't get cold enough to justify 5W-30 all the time. So I'm going to try 10W-30 to see if the thicker oil stops the oil consumption. One thing I did notice is that when it is cold (temps below 40 degrees F) there was no oil consumption at all. The 3800 never used a drop by the time it was hit at 80,000.

    I used the oil life monitor and still do. It usually comes on between 3,000 and 5,000 miles. At 80K it purred like a kitten. Only time will tell how the 3.5 will endure.
  • seguyseguy Member Posts: 133
    where do you get this stuff, and how much per quart?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    My 3800 uses some oil, maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of a quart in 12,000 miles (filter change at 6000 not counted in that added amount. Filter is about 20 ounces additional). So, uses some oil but very minimal.


    Go to www.amsoil.com or http://www.pecuniary.com/pecuniary.html


    for the 5W20.

  • jerryajerrya Member Posts: 6
    I just sent this email to Mobil. Any thoughts/comments?I own a 1999 Cougar with the 2.5 L V6 and 104,000 miles on it. I have always changed the oil every three months (approx. 7-8000 miles), using conventional Mobil 5W-30. This winter the engine developed a rattle for the first 5 to 10 minutes after a cold start. The noise is audible only under load while accelerating thru the gears above about 2500rpm. There is no noise revving the engine in neutral or while driving at a steady speed.

    The last oil change I switched to Mobil 1 5W-30 and the noise disappeared immediately and has not returned. Could I have been hearing piston slap or bearing knock? If so, how did the synthetic oil silence the noise? Incidentally, the engine otherwise runs perfectly and uses no oil between changes.

    Your diagnosis and advice would be much appreciated.

    Thank You
    Jerry Agresti
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    Jerry, it's hard to say. My car (Honda Civic) developed piston slap at around 80,000 miles despite using Mobil 1 throughout most of its life. But, with mine, it was audible at idle in freezing weather. After 3-5 minutes of warming up, the noise would gradually disappear.

    The only way I could quiet it was to use Red Line synthetic oil which has moly in it. Other oil which use moly as an extreme pressure lubricant might do the same thing. The car now has 114,000 miles on it and still runs great.

    I've heard of Pontiac Gran-Ams (3.1L v-6?) having the same piston slap problem ... but at ridiculously low mileage like 20,000 miles or so.

    --- Bror Jace
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Is almost routine. It doesn't appear to affect the life of the engine.
  • brucer2brucer2 Member Posts: 157
    The two most probable reasons for the noise are the cam chain tensioners and HLA (Hydraulic Lash Adjusters). The synthetic oil flows better at low temps, and so the oil pressure comes up faster. Also, the oil change spec on the Duratec is 3K or 5K miles. Going to 7-8K on conventional oil may not have been a good thing: oil gets thicker with use.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well, wish me luck you all. I will put Mobil One Synthetic ATF in my six speed Corvette Z06. I will also put Mobil One synthetic 75w-90 gear oil and limited -slip diff lube additive in my differential. While it is up on jackstands, I will also do the oil, Mobil One 10w-30.
  • kczmudzinkczmudzin Member Posts: 39
    I just got this from Mazda.

    "With regard to the interval at which you should change the oil in your
    2002 Mazda MPV, the Owner's Manual states on page 8-4 to "change engine
    oil and replace filter - every 6 months or 7,500 miles". The Owner's
    Manual also states on page 8-3 if your driving habits include one or
    more of the following conditions: (a)repeated short-distance driving,
    (b)driving in dusty conditions, (c)driving with extended use of brakes,
    (d)driving in areas where salt or other corrosive materials are being
    used, (e)driving on rough or muddy roads, (f)extended periods of idling
    or low-speed operation, (g)driving for long periods in cold
    temperatures
    or extremely humid climates, change engine oil and oil filter every 4
    months or 5,000 miles whichever occurs first.

    With regard to using synthetic oil in your 2002 Mazda MPV, Mazda does
    not recommend synthetic oil for any Mazda vehicles."
  • woneilwoneil Member Posts: 8
    synthetic oils will decrease engine or gear wear but they also increase your oil pressure in your engine, diff, transfer case or what ever you use them in

    i have used synthetic oil in 4 different vehicles and in 3 of the 4 i was blowing out gaskets etc.
    (96 trans am, 51 pontiac, 85 toy 4x4)

    the 4th car was a 98 corvette that comes from the factory with mobil 1, no problems with it

    if your vehicle can handle it, great, it will decrease the wear but i wont take a chance on blowing any more seals
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmmm, "...but they will also increase you oil pressure in your engine..."

    It seems to me that, if anything, the oil pressure should be exactly the same or a little lower (unless you switched from 10W-30 dino juice to 15W-50 synthetic). Given that at cold temperatures, synthetic oil flows better that dino juice of similar specs, the synthetic will have LOWER oil pressure than regular oil, assuming that the pressure check valve limit has not yet been reached, in which case, both will have the same pressure.

    “…i have used synthetic oil in 4 different vehicles and in 3 of the 4 i was blowing out gaskets etc.”

    Precious few gaskets on a typical engine are exposed to high pressure oil, if you were having problems with pan gaskets or valve cover gaskets, then I submit to you that you need to look for another cause given the fact that oil pressure has no effect on those types of gaskets, a head gasket on the other hand might be a different story.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    The oil pressure is dictated by the resistance to flow in a dynamic system like that engine, the thicker the oil, the higher the pressure and the synthetic flowing better at low temp shows less resistance to flow. If the oil is too thick (or if there is a total blockage with no bypass available) then the pressure would go way up if measured AT THAT POINT of blockage.
    Pressure is highest at the pump and gradually decreases through the engine and finally is the least in the sump just before the pump.
    Woneil could have had some seals start leaking (possibly start leaking faster) after starting to use the synthetic oil that was able to clean some deposits at those seal interfaces and start getting out,,,that could be considered "blowing out" a seal,,,if any seal was physically dislodged then there was obviously some SERIOUS pressure increase, hopefully not from any dislodged large pieces of carbon/crud that blocked a passage and REALLY backed up some flow.
    Sounds more like it was just seal seepage gone bad, we all hear about valve cover/timing gear gaskets leaking when changing to synthetics

    Woneil, if you want to use the synthetics, they seem to do better for people that have lower mileage engines at the time they start using it, on older engines it may not buy you much anyway because much of the engine wear may have already occurred and it can't be undone (check out the STP conversations about THAT subject :^) I get killed on that one he he...
    I imagine one of these days all engine oil will be synthetic and all engines will be made expecting it to be used in them.
    Don't write synthetic oil off yet, I'm sure they are just beginning to really get better, and they are already pretty good
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    It was not designed for Mazda's rotary engine. Even Mobil 1 doesn't recommend synthetic for that motor. Other motors should be fine.

    Quite frankly most manufacturers don't outwardly admit to either extended oil drains, or recommend driving with synthetic oil.

    I currently use 3 quarts Maxlife, and 1 quart Synpower in my Mazda. No noticible difference. Like anti sludging, anti-wear, and extra cleaning properties of Maxlife. Will test in 5-6k and post results here.
  • yettibuttyettibutt Member Posts: 98
    What exactly is a synthetic blend? My Civic has 93K on it and I just recently bought this car. I run Mobil 1 syn in my wife's Jetta but started it on that at 20K, with the Civic, Im hesitant b/c of the higher milage. Would a blend do well in this car? Do these oils meet the manufacturer recommendations? Who makes a decent one? Should I just say "screw it" and go with fully syn and just hope I don't get leaks?
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Mth: Mobil 1 can't be used in Mazda rotary engines.


    Fact: While Mazda doesn't recommend synthetic oils in general for its rotary engines, experience and testing have shown that Mobil 1 provides superior performance in rotary engines. Check with your Mazda representative concerning warranty questions.
  • wayn1wayn1 Member Posts: 69
    Hello everyone! I am an Amsoil dealer and I have a customer who owns a 1990 Mazda RX-7 with the rotary engine. This person bought the car new, I put in Amsoil 10W-30 when the car had about 2,000 miles on it. Today, it has over 75,000 miles on it, runs like it was new. The oil is changed once a year and the filter changed every 6 months. This engine has had no work done on it except regular tune-ups and maintanance. So as far as that statement saying not to use synthetic oil,its just a bunch of talk when people don't understand what they are talking about or don't fully understand the product they are talking about.
  • kczmudzinkczmudzin Member Posts: 39
    This is the latest (and last as I don't intend on arguing any more; I will simply start using synthetic with the first oil change after 5k miles.) BTW, I have 2002 MPV so it's definitely not a rotary engine. It seems to be Ford's 3L Duratec.

    "The Mazda MPV is manufactured in Japan. Although Ford had a hand in the
    type of engine equipped in the vehicle, they have no further
    involvement
    with this vehicle. Unfortunately, there is no contact person at Ford
    that I can refer to you. Our position stands, Mazda does not recommend
    using synthetic oil in any of our vehicles."
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    I haven't found a syn blend that doesn't meet SJ, or SL classifications. They are usually 20% conventional, and 20% synthetic. With Mobile and Quaker State, these are a PAO blend, not hydrocracked.

    As expected they are in between conventional and synthetic oils in performance. Cost about $2.25 per quart. Lab tests show that this mixture gives about 80% of the anti wear protection of full syn. No great benefit in startup. No extended intervals. I've used a syn blend for years in 2 of my cars.

    Recently converted one to a higher mileage oil. Will see how it performs.
  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    After reading the post here I decided to give synthetic a try. I had Sears do it and used Castrol 10W-30 (they were out of 5W-30, manual says 10/30 is fine and it doesn't get cold enough to justify using 5/30 all the time where I live), replaced both the air and oil filters. There was a clear, improved difference in the car. Much more power throughout the rev range. This is of particular note since the 3.5 Intrigue w/the 3.05 axle doesn't get off the mark as quickly (typical of most DOHCs) as the 3800 Intrigue w/3.05. In fact, one would have to purchase the Intrigue w/PCS to get the higher 3.29 axle. But after changing to synth, it moves from a light as quickly as my old pushrod Intrigue. But there's more.

    Shift points "seemed" to have changed. I know they didn't; the reason for the perception is that the engine has such a noticeable increase in power that I don't lay on the pedal as hard as in the past to get the same result. I atttribute this to the synth reducing friction so the energy that formerly was being transferred as heat is now being used efficiently by the engine. Am I on the right track?

    Now the question. Mrdetailer is right on with the price of syn blend. From his experience it is better than regular dino. But why? How much better is it than regular syrup? And is it close enough to full syn to save myself $12 (Intrigue 3.5 uses 6 quarts)? Mobil and QuakerState were mentioned. What are your thoughts on Castrol? Pensoil had a synth but the price was the same as syn blend and the labeling made it look like it was a no frills brand (marketing does work). Has anyone used Pensoil syn or heard anything about it?
  • tntitantntitan Member Posts: 306
    After spending days reading all of the hoopla on oil and filters I have decided to go with Mobil 1 and Purolator Pure One filters. To justify the cost I will get off my lazy butt and change the oil myself instead of paying more for inferior products. Where can I get my old oil tested?

    My 2000 Accord SE has 27,000 miles and I have had the oil changed every 3,750 miles as suggested for severe conditions (7,500 regular conditions) by the owners manual. I only drive 4.5 miles to work and figure this qualifies me for severe. I want to compare the oil analysis of my old dino oil to the synthetic after 7,500 miles and see if there is any bad news. If there is I plan to stick with synthetic and change the filter every 3,750, run another analysis and if necessary change both the oil and filter every 3,750 miles.

    My dilemna is simple. I don't know jack about testing oil. Where do I go? How much should it cost? What am I looking for when I get the analysis? Is my whole plan feasible or am I just spinning my wheels?
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    I used Blackstone labs, but there are many good ones.

    Make sure you pay extra to get the TBN, total base number because that shows the amount of additives remaining. They should be no lower than 2, but I prefer no lower than 3.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    As mentioned in previous posts: Pennzoil and Castrol are severely hydroprocessed mineral oil. The courts have allowed to call them "full synthetic". Blends do give improved performance over conventional oils- how much??????????? Don't know. Cheaper to blend syn with conventional oil.
  • hlltdhlltd Member Posts: 61
    Does anyone know and is able to explain what the differences are between the older, now obsolete SJ (American Petroleum Oil) oil and the newer SL ratings are?

    I have several jugs of the SJ oil, and am wondering IF I should give it away, and purchase the latest SL rated Mobil 1?

    DHG
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Your onwers manual probably says SH OR SJ so I would not worry about having to use an SL rated oil. When you use up the Sj switch over, will not make a hill of beans diff.
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/ACF28.pdf


    should show as a hyperlink but go to this page and it shows the differences. SL basically has decreased the zinc componant in an effort to help catalytic converters last longer,,,zinc is also a metal protector also, by the way

    I agree with ARMTDM, just use up the oil you have on hand, next time you buy any it will be the SL grade on the shelf (already is in most places)

  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Happened to graze the display for Messerati and Ferrari, asked about oil and both come from factory with synthetic. Not sure but he believed Mobil 1.

    Ah, in love, now if only I had the $225,000!
  • bobistheoilguybobistheoilguy Member Posts: 270
    The standard synthblend oil only requires 10% PAO to quailify as a blend and depending on the base oil can use a standard group II or group III hydro-finished mineral base stock.

    You will find very few to exceed that percentage.

    The blend I use is a solvent refined, severely hydro-finished 100% paraffin base oils and 28% polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base fluid.

    Even if you were to "mix" or "blend" your own as some seem to do, can you tell what % of pao is in a "full" synth? did you realize that a "full" synth isn't a true "full" synth and has a "blend" of mineral in it as well? Like castrol, most all synth's are a blend. some have higher levels of esters than some others.

    since base stock is the issue your talking about here, lets talk about that.. do u know how to tell from the tech data sheet what kind of base oil is used?.. often times the flash point shown on the tech data sheets gives and indication of what base oil is used.

    basic naphthenic flashpoint 350-370..

    naph/parhf,mix called paraffinic, flashpoint 410..

    100%pure paraffin base flashpoint 475-500..

    pao synth flashpoint 495-525..

    ok, now u have a base of flash points for the type of base oil now look at the flash point on your oils,

    AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil (ATM)..Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92) ..230 (446)

    now taking that into consideration, that shows to fall somewhere in the 100% pure paraffin base flash point. ok, that means it's not a full synth.. it has a blend of sorts, cause if it was a full synth it would be higher flash point,..

    here's one.. SynLube™ over 500°F (260°C)

    now that shows pure synth.

    mobil tri synth Flash Point, ASTM D 92, °C (°F).. 243 (470).. it to most likely doesn't have a pure full synth.

    ok, schaeffers full synth..Flash Point °F/°C (ASTM D-92) 465°/240.5° .. it too, isn't totally a full synth without some mix.

    so point being, don't fall into the trap thinking it's nothing more than a full synth with no other mix.. out of all of these posted, synlube seems to qualify as the only true full synth.

    now there is exceptions to all this but i think u can see what i'm saying. again, base stock is important, but.. it's just one part of the mix and it isn't the part that really protects the motor from wear.

    Another thing i constantly hear people stating that synth flows easier than it's mineral counter part. in cold weather starting visc i understand that the synth will flow to lower temps, but lets look at this.

    we know that the rate of speed in which oil flows past 2 given points at a set temp dictates the Cst or SUS which converts to a specific weight classification of an oil in terms of viscosity (operating temp).

    so if oil is measured at the 100deg C, a 10w30 mineral oil timed a flow at 12.4 cst, and a synth 10w30 is measured at 100 deg C and produces also a 12.4 cst, how is it that the synth oil flows easier than the mineral? the measurements are the same, time and viscosity(reffering to operating viscoisty only not cP lower visc)..

    bob
    Lubricant Specialist
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    According to Mobil,

    Mobil 1 is a fully synthetic motor oil for automotive engines. It is made from a mixture of polyalphaolefin (PAO), synthetic ester and an alkylated aromatic fluid.

    http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp

    To the best of my understanding, it means that the oil is synthetic in the sense, that the all three main components in the mix are artificially (chemically) synthesided from more simple molecules.

    However, Mobil does not claim that the base oil is PAO. Just the opposite: Mobil want everybody know that it is not simply PAO, and that the manufacturer is proud of this. Mobil even named the oil brand "Tri-Synthetic", for nobody have any doubts.

    Most probably, the oil contains more PAO than other components. At least it must be so "linguistically", because PAO was listed on the first place. Linguistically it does not necessary contains even 50% of PAO, though.

    Mobil is avoiding to publish the ratios in the mix. Would a competitor decide to "reverse engineer" the oil, though, it can hire competent chemists to analyse the fluid...
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