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mdecampsyou will need to wait awhile for the results of the supersyn. Probably 6 months. I will to a 3 rd one for sure on a 2002 Daewoo. That won't be ready until the end of the year.
bigorange30: I hope you are not serious about going 30K on a filter. Filters are so quick, easy and inexpensive. I left the K&N in for 6 months and 6K and that was enough for me.
So, you can go one year on a fitler, after 6 months though my experience is that the drain back valve fails but on a vertical mount who cares.
I stated that the design that Toyota incorporates is excessivily hard on any oil due to the shearing effect by the addition of gears driving the ohc's. This in my book has Never been a design flaw. It has worked prior to 97 with no problems but after the lubrication industry started to incorp the "new" oils out, that's when toyota started to incur more than frequent oil sludge issues. I honestly don't think many were determined to be anything more than ownership's abuse and improper maint until just recently since these numbers had started to increase and internet conectivity giving others the ability to ban together and be heard as one.
with his new 2400 mile oil analysis showing his 30wt oil to be 20wt in that short time supported what I had been saying about tearing most oils up by 4k miles. I have always contributed this problem due the quality of the oil with the design of this engine. This engine has been proven out as an excellent engine but as someone else said, is less forgiving about neglect of maint.
The other point I bring out is sssssoooooo many people pay 20,30 and even up to $40,000 for a vehicle and yet look for the cheapest 9.95 oil change they can get. Man that just really blows my mind on this logic. Kinda like hey doc, I know I need a blood transfusion so you got some cheap stuff?.
I guess there will always be that cheap mentality on oil changes and there will continually be sludge in engines. I just hope that what I have brought to light here was that in my investigations on the toyota v6's, they 1... have an excellent motor. 2... This motor requires a little more attention than most due to its design but has never been an issue of design flaw and that the pcv valve issue they propose was nothing more than a way to inact a little more forgiveness incase of neglect and not a fix for a supposed design flaw...3...Oil quality vs Oil change intervals are a very important factor for proper maint. 4....driving habits are also very critical in selecting drain intervals.
ADC,
I too am interested in your results on the new mobil supersyn but I won't put any weight on the first 2 drains as you'll still have plenty of barrier lube residual from the prior oil and that will be supporting your first 2 oil drains. So by the 3rd oil drain with supersyn, I'd suspect you may see the difference in wear if you do drive like a lot of others and stay up with traffic from light to light If you are like Those that barely ever touch the gas when first taking off, you'll never see much wear due to this not ever breaking the oils hydrodynamic properties.
This is why so many can use one type of oil and so many different analysis will be so different.
Just the same, it should prove out interesting for everyone how it will work out for you.
My personal thoughts on this is that if your wear numbers do not increase by the 3rd oil drain, You are not one that gets on it in traffic much and just take your time accellerating. But if you do stay up with others from light to light, those numbers will increase. Just my opinion and predictions.
Given one is using a good synthetic thats not prone to allow for sludge that would be the only reason why the filter would plug, I don't think that one would generate that much dirt to fill a filter to capacity during everyday driving. I think that the filters limitation is not the synthetic media or construction of filter, yet it's the rubber seal that gives way and looses its holding properties as the rubber seal is constantly exposed to high heat and cold it's grip is sure to loosen additionally depending on the additives used in the oil this may have a bearing on how well that seal will hold up, if one using a synthetic that seal could easily hold up to a year
However if one is using a petrol oil the sealing property may be compromised coupled with high heat and cold to only a 6month limitation.
Anyway I've asked to have the tech sheets for all SuperTech oils dino and syn. sent to me. Will post specs when I get them. Always heard that QS was PAO and Pennzoil wasn't. Don't know if I'll be able to tell that from the spec. sheets or if it really makes any difference.
i think it might have been that i was using ur viewpoint to see something that u were not trying to show.
once more accept my apologies.
Couldn't agree with you more on the over-infatuation (IMO) with sub $1 oil prices. I'm pretty much of a miser. But I'm not penny wise and pound foolish.
Later,
Al
BTW adc100: These oil filters are not cheap. They cost $10-12 each. We're not talking about cheapo Fram filters at $2 each.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
have featured quite a lot of discussion by people much more astute than I am about whether an oil is synthetic unless it's PAO (polyalphaolefin). If you're a Mobil 1 lover you think that this is the definition and that Castrol is the antiChrist for getting their bogus definition of syn. lubricants through the court. Frankly, I've never been convinced that Castrol isn't just as good, even if their oil isn't the real thing.
As far as store brands like SuperTech, their oil filters are first rate, so I have no reason to believe their oils to be bad. Personally I use the $11.99 SuperTech special oil change demanding that the Champion Labs filter be substituted for the Fram. With the exception of never using Fram filters, I have few rules in life.
I was suprised, however, to find that SuperTech oil was a different formulation than Quaker State. I e-mailed the tech because I read in another forum that SuperTech was Pennzoil.
I remember a report several years back that some auto supply sources were relabeling junk (SA non detergent) oil and selling it as name brand stuff in small auto supply stores. At least there's no chance of that happening with Wal-Mart.
http://analystsinc.com/about/locations/analysts_atlanta.htm
bigorange30: You can remove the filter without draining the oil sump as long as the engine isn't running. The oil is pumped from the sump to the filter which is higher than the sump. You will get some oil spillage though, depending on the filter arrangement.
bottgers I still think that 15K is too long to go with a high efficiency filter. I would think there will be a noticable reduction in flow. That could be more critical during very cold weather. There is probably a margin of safety but I would prefer not to test it.
I would also pay the extra to get your TBN included in the analysis.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/auto.html
The cost is $18.50 w/o the TBN analysis. I don't know yet how much the TBN is extra.
There are a couple of things you can look for that would help you determine how long you can go between oil and filter changes. If you have an oil pressure gage, notice where the gage usually reads, during cold weather and warm, when you first start the car, after it's been running for a while, etc. If you do this right after a fresh oil and filter change, you'll see where the normal indications should be. As you start to get a few thousand miles on the oil and the filter, when the filter starts getting saturated, you'll notice a change in the pressure. Note the mileage, and plan to make your filter changes prior to that mileage from then on.
If you don't have a pressure gage, keep an eye on the color of the oil. Notice how the oil is almost perfectly clear right after an oil change? As you put the miles on that oil, it slowly starts to darken in color. When I change my oil at the 10K mark, whether it's in my Honda or my Intrepid, the oil is a tannish brown color, but you can still see the dipstick through the oil. I never let my oil get any darker than this. If your oil is jet black when you change it, you've gone too long. At that point, the filter is saturated and the only thing it's filtering is rocks. Note the mileage for your next oil and filter change.
These methods aren't scientific, but they've been put to the test, and the results have been favorable.
Later
I don't claim enough knowledge on this subject to even case a vote on this issue. I'm simply learning from the other folks here.
Jet black, well that would probably bother me. Mine is still amber after 7,500 miles. Makes a huge diff when you look also... Hot oil much clearer then oil sitting overnight.
The headline ready Toyota handled "sludge" poorly. After quoting a share of the letter Tom and Ray responded this way.
"Toyota says Sludge happens -- and that it only happens to people who don't change their oil and who do a lot of stop and go driving."
But other independent engineers claim that there is a design problem .... Furthermore it shouldn't happen on low mileage engines."
"But it looks like whatever the cause Toyota handled it poorly by trying to blame it on its customers....."
Toyota should have said "We're sorry you bought a Toyota because you thought it would be worry-free.... We'll fix it. It took Toyota too long."
"These are still excellent cars, in our opinion, and well continue to recommend them."
"We don't expect carmakers to be infallible. We just expect them to own up to their mistakes."
A family from USSR. A professional couple, PhD and MS if I remember it right, but they never had a car before immigrating. The first car they bought was very old, and a friend suggested not bothering with maintenance, even oil changes: fresh immigrants have too many thing to learn, in so short time...
About a year later, already with a decent job(s), they bought another car. Something small and cheap, but new. However, they had an impression that cars do not need maintenance. Just did not realise that the suggestions concerning the previous car was for the special surcumstances only.
To make a long story short, the engine run with the factory oil for several years, and died only on 70k+ miles. The couple did not bother with replacing engine, and bought a new car. Bigger, better, and more expensive. Fortunately, could afford.
Small cars with small engines generally are more sensitive to oil quality. So, I firmly believe that many cars would survive to 100k, and even more, with natural oil and 15k miles between changes.
However, I would not experiment with my car.
That's a pretty strong statement. I'm sorry to disagree with you again, as you appear convinced it's because I'm argumentative or don't like you (both not true). But I don't see how anyone could make such a statement and have anything with which to back it up. What makes you so sure?
Would I be willing to test my opinion, that a car would last 100k+ miles with 15k oil change intervals, on a vehicle I owned? No, because I think that is too many miles for oil to last.
I'm thinking there are lots of vehicles on the road whose oil is changed very infrequently.
Why are you so down on conventional oil?
yurakm: Please buy a dictionary for goodness sakes and look up the word CIRCUMSTANCES.
And my spoken English is even worse, I would say much worse :-(
I don't like dino for several reasons. It just doesn't hold up. There isn't a dino made that I'd run for more than 3K or 4K, and in some small cars, it's not even good for that long. After that, they just turn to crap. They don't resist breaking down in high temps like syn does. They don't flow in the cold like syn does. They don't have the combustion contaminant resistance that syn has. It's more expensive to change dino oil and filter every 3K then it is to change syn oil and filter every 10K. And it's been my experience that engines last longer when full syn is used.
Hopefully someone else will get the synthetic oil data that's also a little more uptodate.