Former colleague of my father's was a professor in the U.S. for awhile, from Korea or Japan (can't remember), and bought a new Toyota Camry when he was here. He'd never owned a car before. He never changed the oil, or did any maintenance to the car, just figured it would keep running so long as you put gas in it.
The Camry made it to about 60,000 miles before the engine seized up.
I'm not sure if this says something about the sturdiness of Toyota engines, the general quality of dino oil, or the ignorance of consumers. Probably all three.
Compared to the 3 "name brands" in the PzQS stable, SuperTech oil--
Has the same flash point as Quaker State, but lower than Wolf's Head or Pennzoil.
Has a lower pour point than Quaker State or Wolf's Head, but not as low as Pennzoil.
Has a higher kinetic viscoscity than any of them, far higher than Quaker State.
All of the data sheets are available on the Pennzoil web page. Their oils are SL. Apparently they haven't updated the Wal-Mart data sheets to reflect the SL oil in the stores yet. To my untrained eye, it looks to me like the SuperTech specs are better than Quaker State but not as good as Pennzoil.
Is it safe to say that fresh dino oil with a fresh filter will be outperformed by a full synthetic with 6k miles on oil and filter? Just for my info on extended drain interval.
I would say so. I think your engine is getting better protection by using full synthetic and changing it every 10K, compared to using dino and changing it every 3K. Keep in mind, I wouldn't recommend using a $3 oil filter with the 10K change intervals. I use nothing but Mobil 1 or Puralator Pure One filters.
I'm not sure you understood my question. When the synthetic has 6k on it at that point is it providing more protection on an engine than fresh dino. Or is it that frequent oil changes with dino would be graphically represented much differently throughout the oil life much like a rollercoaster. High protection at the start moving downward until the next change and then shooting upward reprsesenting high protection again. Wheras an extended synthetic change would just look like a gradual downward slope. Graphed overlapping it would be interesting to see the behavior of each discipline over time. Just a thought.
Let me preference my remarks by saying that I am simply a do-it-yourself mechanic on the simple things and have no expertise.
I read over 5000 posts here and researched a few other referenced oil related sites trying to decide which filter and oil to use in my 2000 Accord and 2002 CRV. Based on all of this I decided to use the SL rated Chevron Supreme dino at $.94/quart and a $3 Walmart Supertech filter (made by Champion) and go with a 3-4K mile oil change interval.
I had actually bought Mobil 1 synthetic oil and filters but decided that there was not enough evidence that extended drain intervals with the synthetic would be superior to 3K mile changes with an SL dino. I rarely get over 5000 rpm and the temperature rarely gets below 10 degrees so I just not sure I see any real advantage.
I do plan to do regular analysis of my oil and believe that is the only thing that will really tell you what is going on in your engine. Each car, driver, and situation is unique.
My decision has nothing to do with cost. I am simply not convinced that extended oil intervals are the best thing for my engine or that synthetic oil is superior to dino for my application.
I will be shocked if this system does not deliver in excess of 200K miles on my engines and I doubt that I can stand to drive the same car for any more than 10 years anyway. Just my $.02
I pulled the conventional because the only data I had for SuperTech was dino. The Pennzoil web page has complete data for Quaker, Pennzoil and Wolf's Head. I also requested complete (including syn. from QS/PZ on the SuperTech oil. Will post it when and if I receive it. It's been about ten days.
Personally I think that most SL rated oil is pretty good. I'm using Wal-Mart dino for many of the same reasons listed by tntitan. I'm staying on a 4K interval for my Elantra and pushing close to 5K for a Cavalier and Topaz. Both engines are ancient and should be quite easy on oil.
Your approach to the problem, and the resulting choice for a solution tailored to your needs seems excellent to me.
I enjoyed dabbling in synthetic lubes to the exclusion of petroleum based products for a decade. Then, I tired of that and went through an informal analysis of my own documented vehicle ownership and use patterns. I came to the conclusion, like you, that my best interests could readily be met by a well made "mid range" filter and dinosaur juice-- both to be changed not long after 3K miles, but understanding that 4K was not a moral dilemma! I still use synthetic lube products, but not expansively as before.
One of your statements pretty much sums up my basic feelings on synthetic engine oil. I wanted to repeat it here, to add my name to the list of folks who are thinking along the same lines as you.
tntitan: "I decided that there was not enough evidence that extended drain intervals with the synthetic would be superior to 3K mile changes with an SL dino."
I've gone so far as to continue using Mobil 1 in a vehicle that the previous owner had used Mobil 1, and I even switched over another of our vehicles from conventional oil to Mobil 1 in the past 15,000 miles or so.
I will be switching back and due to my unexplainable excitement at finding what I believe to be excellent oil for about $1 a quart (Chevron Supreme and Citgo SuperGard SL-rated 5W30 and 10W30), I have already stockpiled about 40 quarts of dino-based oil even though I about 6 months' worth of Mobil 1 on hand.
After a diet of 2 years on synthetic I recently converted at my mechanic's recommendation to a synthetic blend. This works great as long as it hasn't sat for a long time. But after sitting for a week it sounded like a thrashing machine. A light flashes in my memory -- oh, yeah, it used to do this before I switched to Quaker State Syn. I'm going to go back to Syn, at least in the winter, to avoid the hard starts.
Ironically the same dino/syn blend oil in another vehicle doesn't have the same problem.
So clearly one answer to this dilemma is to use whatever works best for your particular vehicle.
I guess my thinking is that any full synthetic is better than any dino or syn blend. That's why I go with Super-Tech full syn. At just $2.97 a quart, and 10K change intervals, it's hard to beat. I still think running full syn for 10K provides better protection than dino run for 3K. Just my personal opinion.
to go 10k on a unfimiliar synthetic brand of oil to verify it is capable to handle that many miles by using an oil analysis, than picking and abitrary number.
I read some past SAE articles on Mobil's syn program. It was interesting to see how some syn oils underperform (Mobil's included) due to inferior additive packages.
"I guess my thinking is that any full synthetic is better than any dino or syn blend."
I'm inclined to agree; however, 2 caveats:
How does one define a "full synthetic" oil or a "synthetic blend" oil? Some folks here feel that certain oils marketed as full synthetic (E.g. Castrol Syntec, and an increasing number of other major-brand synthetics) are NOT true synthetics. And some oils marketed as "conventional oil" may in fact be what most people consider a synthetic blend.
When you throw that caveat into the equation, things become much less simple. Just my opinion.
Caveat #2: What does "better" mean? I have a rough idea based on what I hear on this forum, but the things that make synth better than conventional can be hard to explain and even harder to quantify.
That makes it less clear whether synthetic is worth the extra money. I have no problem paying 2-4x more for synthetic; I've done that for a while now. But the benefits are neither clear nor measurable to me, and therefore I cannot justify the extra cost.
Yes, you could minimize the cost difference by extending the synthetic change interval. But you'd need to pay for oil analysis to be safe, and that would widen the cost gap again.
Personally, it seems a little risky to leave ANY oil in for 10,000 miles or more and assume it's okay simply because it's synthetic (or you THINK it's synthetic).
but I just put a clip about a newspaper deliveryman who got a million miles on his Chevy pickup using Pennzoil dino into the "slippery subject" thread. Drove 800 miles a day and changed oil every four days. Get a life...
Lesson-- with a low tech engine, frequent changes, and no temperature extremes dino works just fine.
What's all this stuff about not knowing if the oil you're buying is actually Synthetic or not? Can they actually get away with putting dino in a bottle and marking it synthetic? If it isn't dino, what can it be except for synthetic?
bottgers, I'll let the experts here answer your question in more detail. Basically, Castrol was allowed to market its Syntec as full synthetic even though it didn't meet most companies' definition of synthetic. Since this occurred (3-5 years ago?), others have followed suit.
csandste: how could someone drive 800 miles a day on a newspaper delivery route? That seems like a lot of miles. I think a 4-day change interval is a little too frequent. Couldn't it have been safely stretched to weekly or something? How much could the oil break down in a week?
Seems like a lot. My suspicion is that they may have had multiple drivers covering the route and switched off at midpoint. I think the lesson learned may be that 90%+ of wear is really at start up and once you get an engine running, wear is minimal. That may have been the lesson of the Consumer Reports oil study with taxis as well.
From my research with the oil companies most syn blends are 20-25% synthetic.
Most companies will you give the spiel that we have spent all this time and research for blending oils and configuring weights and you shouldn't do it. However, they also admit that each one of their oils is compatible with every other oil in their line.
I also got an admission last week from one knowledgeable Valvoline technician that they know of many users who do a 50-50 blend of conventional and synthetic oil on their own.
The consistent warning I have gotten is that oils of different weights should not be done. This is not because they are incompatible, but that the resulting mixture may not be what would normally be expected. For example mixing 50% 10W-40 with 10W-30 may not necessarily create a 10W-35 weight.
So clearly while companies don't recommend blending it is anticipated that it is being done.
I have blended in the past on my Subaru, a 50% mixture of 5W-50, and 5W-30 Quaker State synthetic because the 5W-50 was much higher on gas mileage. The blend put mileage close to my conventional 10W-30, and saved me money. I will also be going back to that on the winter oil change because cold weather starts are smoother and quicker than an off the shelf blend.
I'm also custom blending my Mazda right now. 2 quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 Maxlife 2 quarts with 5W-30 Synpower. After extensive study of any information I could glean I am convinced of the following. Maxlife has wonderful cold start barrier protection, not the least of which was Bob's barrier protection test. Maxlife has amazing anti-sludge properties. But Maxlife has seal conditioners that at full strength may be too strong for the seals I just had replaced. The seal conditioner is designed for hardened, not new seals. However, experience shows that Syn doesn't give any advantage to seals at all. Synpower adds durability which Maxlife doesn't have, allowing me to feel comfortable extending the drain interval to 5,000 miles in lieu of my formerly 3,000 miles.
I believe that I will get increased protection and longer intervals with about the same cost as my former off the shelf blend.
Remember the 5w-10w/30 oils have friction reducers, the heavier oils do not. The heavier oils have different protection properties due to the higher weights of the oils is the only benefit that they give. An even mix of 10w/30 and 10w/40 may not be exactly 10w/35 but it will be close enough...if the priority is fuel mileage use the lighter stuff, I tend to lean towards protection is why I add some heavier oil, especially during the summer. see y'all Rando
I guess what I'm saying is if it's not dino, then it has to be synthetic. Dino is oil made by mother nature. Synthetic is man-made oil. What's the confusion?
I am convinced that the mixing you are doing is essentially nonharmful to your vehicle. That is, if harm comes, it won't be due to immiscibility or ingredients combatting one another. On the other hand, I am not convinced that you gain much, either.
It's been a difficult decision. I would run pure syn if I could. But my cars are older so I'm left deciding what to do. I can get a blend that I mix myself for just a little more than a syn blend off the shelf. I'm also trying to feel comfortable about going past the 3K interval. My own blend does that for me.
In a heart beat, I would do the same thing with no fear, if I wanted my own mix. Have you considered using a polyol type synthetic for that side of your brew?
Last week I e-mailed the Royal Purple oil guys about whether (as some have claimed) their standard automotive oils are not fully synthetic like their racing oils. I received the following reply, which is partly marketing-speak but is also interesting for its claim on the use of conventional oil in synthetic oils:
"There are no industry standard definitions of either "full synthetic" or "semi-synthetic" in regard to actual synthetic base oil percentages of a finished product. I'm not involved in formulations so I can't offer exact percentages though I can tell you all Royal Purple products begin with 100% group IV PAO synthetic base oils. However, in finished form they do possess a degree of mineral base oils used as diluents or carrier oils for uniform suspension of the additives as you will find with any fully formulated synthetic lubricant regardless of how the manufacturer may market the product. Due to poor additive solubility of synthetic base oils, additive separation would occur without the appropriate diluents.
Bottom line here; focus on performance not on marketing. These terms are used by major oil manufacturers in an attempt to differentiate themselves knowing the general public has no other means of gauging high end lubricants. As well, RP does not simply rely on synthetic base oil for performance. While synthetic base oils provide benefits in certain regards, additives play the greater role in determining overall performance. The horsepower, fuel economy, operating temperature, etc. benefits RP users repeatedly see over other synthetics are indicative of the Synerlec high film strength additive technology, not the base oil. "
same as I have been saying all along, a "full" synth is usually a mix of base oils. This is one reason mixing your own is kinda waste since you don't really know how much of what you're pouring out of the bottle is really the synth oil and how much is the carrier additive mineral oil that is mixed in there. kinda defeats the purpose of mixing a dino and a synth mix. also again like I have been saying all along, it's not the base oil that protects against wear... it's the additive package that makes the difference. So many people continue to think synth provides better wear protection just because the base oil is "synth" when in fact it does not. synth usually means the base oil will hold up for longer drains and not be prone to sludge as easliy and have better cold weather properties for those that live and work in super sub zero weather.
I have a 2001 Mazda Protege 5sp. I drained the factory gear oil and used Valvoline Synpower GL5. I have heard that some GL5 oil is not meant for use in a manual transmission (only differentials?) because there is something in it that corrodes the synchronizers. Bob, anyone?
What lubricant does Mazda recommend? Yes, some GL5 oils will attack bronze synchro rings and thus are not specified for transmissions so fitted. In any case, use what Mazda specifies and you won't go wrong.
It's enough to strain your faith in the industry, when you think back to the 1980's and the advertising hype for the "new" synthetics. They laid off all the super characteristics to the synthetic base oils, and mentioned the additive packages like they were leak preventers only. Now, the inside info seems to indicate that ZDDP and MOLYBDENUM have been, are, and will be the ingredients of greatest importance, along with other additives.
Mazda recommends GL5. I guess my question is how can you tell which GL5 is suitable for manual transmissions? Does Mazda use a "special" GL5 ( a different GL5 than the GL5 used for differentials)?
I used to run a 100% synthetic GL4/GL5 in a Mitsubishi transaxle. I was very pleased with it. It was a KLOTZ product. I also ran it in a Harley transmission with great success. I currently run the product in the drive hub of my Honda Valkyrie motorcycle. It is simply superb. I just revisited their website, and it is not automotive oriented, so I would recommend calling them at 1.800.242.0489=== The product I use was marketed as "Klotz Flex-Drive."
Be careful about using GL-5 in MTX. Some GL-5 are not intended for use in MTX. Mobil explicitly say that you should not use Mobil 1 75W90 in MTX. I have read good things about Redline MT-90 which is a GL-4 MTX oil. The manual in my 93 626 recommends GL-4/GL-5 but I read from some site that the GL5 part is wrong.
A while back I was curious about the same thing. I use COASTAL brand gear oil. COASTAL gear oil said that it met GL5/4 specs. I sent them an email and asked about why GL5 was specified for diffs but not transmissions, they told me that years ago the extreme high pressure additives would attack the syncronizer gears in the trans and that now most oil mfgrs had changed formulas so that was not true any more, that GL5 is good for all gearboxes now,and protects metal better than GL4 does,,,,just make sure the brand you use says it is good for GL5 AND 4. see y'all Rando
One of the alleged advantages of synthetic oil seems to be its ability to provide better engine protection than conventional oil at cold start up. I've noticed that the general press as well as specific oil companys promote this idea, and claim that is when much, and in some cases most, engine wear can occur. My 2-part question is whether or not this is generally true, and if so, is it the synthetic oil, or the oil's additive package that provides the protection at cold start up. If not synthetic oil, why not just get a good regular, and presumably cheaper oil...or am I missing something here?
I wouldn't wait. As was pointed out many vehicles come with factory fill syn. Your rings were probably seated by the time you got it home. I changed at 30 miles in my Sentra 2L. at 18K it uses about 1/2 oz every thousand miles (almost no oil). I use 10W-30 Mobil 1 all year round.
knapp3 syn is a better natural lubricant than conventional oil and clings to metal better. But having said that, my guess is the antiwear package may be more important. In very cold weather the syn would protect better by virtue of low pumping pressure (obviously). My 2 cents.
petroleum based lube would be a very good oil change product for you, but you WOULD lose the opportunity to spend a lot more on some brand of synthetic. (:oÞ
bottgers, Unlike premium gasolines that *might* have better additive packages, synthetics oils are supposed to have the same additive package as all others ... if they are SL (API) certified.
If they are NOT SL certified, all bets are off. A dino oil with molybdenum could be much better at preventing wear than a synthetic like Mobil 1 with reduced levels of zinc phosphate.
Pepper53 I used to wait ... although I think I was overly cautious. I don't know if it makes a difference anymore. I would hold off using an oil with molybdenum in it for the firts 5,000 miles, though. That may affect break-in of the rings and cylinder walls.
Comments
Former colleague of my father's was a professor in the U.S. for awhile, from Korea or Japan (can't remember), and bought a new Toyota Camry when he was here. He'd never owned a car before. He never changed the oil, or did any maintenance to the car, just figured it would keep running so long as you put gas in it.
The Camry made it to about 60,000 miles before the engine seized up.
I'm not sure if this says something about the sturdiness of Toyota engines, the general quality of dino oil, or the ignorance of consumers. Probably all three.
-Karl
Has the same flash point as Quaker State, but lower than Wolf's Head or Pennzoil.
Has a lower pour point than Quaker State or Wolf's Head, but not as low as Pennzoil.
Has a higher kinetic viscoscity than any of them, far higher than Quaker State.
All of the data sheets are available on the Pennzoil web page. Their oils are SL. Apparently they haven't updated the Wal-Mart data sheets to reflect the SL oil in the stores yet. To my untrained eye, it looks to me like the SuperTech specs are better than Quaker State but not as good as Pennzoil.
I read over 5000 posts here and researched a few other referenced oil related sites trying to decide which filter and oil to use in my 2000 Accord and 2002 CRV. Based on all of this I decided to use the SL rated Chevron Supreme dino at $.94/quart and a $3 Walmart Supertech filter (made by Champion) and go with a 3-4K mile oil change interval.
I had actually bought Mobil 1 synthetic oil and filters but decided that there was not enough evidence that extended drain intervals with the synthetic would be superior to 3K mile changes with an SL dino. I rarely get over 5000 rpm and the temperature rarely gets below 10 degrees so I just not sure I see any real advantage.
I do plan to do regular analysis of my oil and believe that is the only thing that will really tell you what is going on in your engine. Each car, driver, and situation is unique.
My decision has nothing to do with cost. I am simply not convinced that extended oil intervals are the best thing for my engine or that synthetic oil is superior to dino for my application.
I will be shocked if this system does not deliver in excess of 200K miles on my engines and I doubt that I can stand to drive the same car for any more than 10 years anyway. Just my $.02
Personally I think that most SL rated oil is pretty good. I'm using Wal-Mart dino for many of the same reasons listed by tntitan. I'm staying on a 4K interval for my Elantra and pushing close to 5K for a Cavalier and Topaz. Both engines are ancient and should be quite easy on oil.
I enjoyed dabbling in synthetic lubes to the exclusion of petroleum based products for a decade. Then, I tired of that and went through an informal analysis of my own documented vehicle ownership and use patterns. I came to the conclusion, like you, that my best interests could readily be met by a well made "mid range" filter and dinosaur juice-- both to be changed not long after 3K miles, but understanding that 4K was not a moral dilemma! I still use synthetic lube products, but not expansively as before.
tntitan: "I decided that there was not enough evidence that extended drain intervals with the synthetic would be superior to 3K mile changes with an SL dino."
I've gone so far as to continue using Mobil 1 in a vehicle that the previous owner had used Mobil 1, and I even switched over another of our vehicles from conventional oil to Mobil 1 in the past 15,000 miles or so.
I will be switching back and due to my unexplainable excitement at finding what I believe to be excellent oil for about $1 a quart (Chevron Supreme and Citgo SuperGard SL-rated 5W30 and 10W30), I have already stockpiled about 40 quarts of dino-based oil even though I about 6 months' worth of Mobil 1 on hand.
If you want extra protection in off-normal conditions like an overheating engine you should go with syn.
For me changine every 8K with syn vs 4K for conventional:
Costs 100 bucks every 100K
Gives a measure of extra protection
Saves me 25 hours of work
Pretty simple for me, but then again I'm no rocket scientist.
Ironically the same dino/syn blend oil in another vehicle doesn't have the same problem.
So clearly one answer to this dilemma is to use whatever works best for your particular vehicle.
I'm inclined to agree; however, 2 caveats:
How does one define a "full synthetic" oil or a "synthetic blend" oil? Some folks here feel that certain oils marketed as full synthetic (E.g. Castrol Syntec, and an increasing number of other major-brand synthetics) are NOT true synthetics. And some oils marketed as "conventional oil" may in fact be what most people consider a synthetic blend.
When you throw that caveat into the equation, things become much less simple. Just my opinion.
Caveat #2: What does "better" mean? I have a rough idea based on what I hear on this forum, but the things that make synth better than conventional can be hard to explain and even harder to quantify.
That makes it less clear whether synthetic is worth the extra money. I have no problem paying 2-4x more for synthetic; I've done that for a while now. But the benefits are neither clear nor measurable to me, and therefore I cannot justify the extra cost.
Yes, you could minimize the cost difference by extending the synthetic change interval. But you'd need to pay for oil analysis to be safe, and that would widen the cost gap again.
Personally, it seems a little risky to leave ANY oil in for 10,000 miles or more and assume it's okay simply because it's synthetic (or you THINK it's synthetic).
Lesson-- with a low tech engine, frequent changes, and no temperature extremes dino works just fine.
csandste: how could someone drive 800 miles a day on a newspaper delivery route? That seems like a lot of miles. I think a 4-day change interval is a little too frequent. Couldn't it have been safely stretched to weekly or something? How much could the oil break down in a week?
Most companies will you give the spiel that we have spent all this time and research for blending oils and configuring weights and you shouldn't do it. However, they also admit that each one of their oils is compatible with every other oil in their line.
I also got an admission last week from one knowledgeable Valvoline technician that they know of many users who do a 50-50 blend of conventional and synthetic oil on their own.
The consistent warning I have gotten is that oils of different weights should not be done. This is not because they are incompatible, but that the resulting mixture may not be what would normally be expected. For example mixing 50% 10W-40 with 10W-30 may not necessarily create a 10W-35 weight.
So clearly while companies don't recommend blending it is anticipated that it is being done.
I have blended in the past on my Subaru, a 50% mixture of 5W-50, and 5W-30 Quaker State synthetic because the 5W-50 was much higher on gas mileage. The blend put mileage close to my conventional 10W-30, and saved me money. I will also be going back to that on the winter oil change because cold weather starts are smoother and quicker than an off the shelf blend.
I'm also custom blending my Mazda right now. 2 quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 Maxlife 2 quarts with 5W-30 Synpower. After extensive study of any information I could glean I am convinced of the following. Maxlife has wonderful cold start barrier protection, not the least of which was Bob's barrier protection test. Maxlife has amazing anti-sludge properties. But Maxlife has seal conditioners that at full strength may be too strong for the seals I just had replaced. The seal conditioner is designed for hardened, not new seals. However, experience shows that Syn doesn't give any advantage to seals at all. Synpower adds durability which Maxlife doesn't have, allowing me to feel comfortable extending the drain interval to 5,000 miles in lieu of my formerly 3,000 miles.
I believe that I will get increased protection and longer intervals with about the same cost as my former off the shelf blend.
see y'all
Rando
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/columns/2000/November/200011_columns_bedard.xml
"There are no industry standard definitions of either "full synthetic" or "semi-synthetic" in regard to actual synthetic base oil percentages of a finished product. I'm not involved in formulations so I can't offer exact percentages though I can tell you all Royal Purple products begin with 100% group IV PAO synthetic base oils. However, in finished form they do possess a degree of mineral base oils used as diluents or carrier oils for uniform suspension of the additives as you will find with any fully formulated synthetic lubricant regardless of how the manufacturer may market the product. Due to poor additive solubility of synthetic base oils, additive separation would occur without the appropriate diluents.
Bottom line here; focus on performance not on marketing. These terms are used by major oil manufacturers in an attempt to differentiate themselves knowing the general public has no other means of gauging high end lubricants. As well, RP does not simply rely on synthetic base oil for performance. While synthetic base oils provide benefits in certain regards, additives play the greater role in determining overall performance. The horsepower, fuel economy, operating temperature, etc. benefits RP users repeatedly see over other synthetics are indicative of the Synerlec high film strength additive technology, not the base oil. "
very good response from RP.
The product I use was marketed as "Klotz Flex-Drive."
Some GL-5 are not intended for use in MTX. Mobil explicitly say that you should not use Mobil 1 75W90 in MTX.
I have read good things about Redline MT-90 which is a GL-4 MTX oil.
The manual in my 93 626 recommends GL-4/GL-5 but I read from some site that the GL5 part is wrong.
see y'all
Rando
Hardly anything bad will happen if you change oil to synthetic now. Neither if you postpone till the second change.
Personally, I switched to synthetic with my 2000 Buick at second change and 5000 miles.
knapp3 syn is a better natural lubricant than conventional oil and clings to metal better. But having said that, my guess is the antiwear package may be more important. In very cold weather the syn would protect better by virtue of low pumping pressure (obviously). My 2 cents.
If they are NOT SL certified, all bets are off. A dino oil with molybdenum could be much better at preventing wear than a synthetic like Mobil 1 with reduced levels of zinc phosphate.
Pepper53 I used to wait ... although I think I was overly cautious. I don't know if it makes a difference anymore. I would hold off using an oil with molybdenum in it for the firts 5,000 miles, though. That may affect break-in of the rings and cylinder walls.
--- Bror Jace
Thanks.