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Some of these hydrocracked 'synthetics' seem to share some basic characteristics of some of the petrol-based oils.
I guess my point is, you cannot just go to the store, buy anything that says "FULL SYNTHETIC" on the label, and rest assured that you are getting an oil with superior (however one wants to define that term) abilities versus all oils marketed as conventional oils. I'm not saying synthetic isn't better, because the evidence seems to say it is. But your blanket statements are taking it a little too far, in my opinion.
Like I said, I'm quite comfortable with my 10K change intervals using SuperTech full syn, or 15K change intervals using Mobil 1 (and using a top notch filter, of course).
I have a 4 Runner v-6 that I switched to Mobil 1. Why? Because the oil is a major pain to change. Also, oil always leaks onto the skid plate and drips for a long time. I change the Mobil 1 at 8k w/ premium filter vs. dino at 3k with Toyota filter. Costs about the same. Reason for Mobil 1: To extend the drain.
I use MaxLife in my '83 Dodge Ram thats gets light use. Reason for dino: I change oil based on time and I don't want to disturb the seals.
My point. We all have valid reasons for using what we use, syn or dino.
May all your oils protect,
Jack
I didn't get ur point.
and regarding friction modifiers, is it safe to use them in trannies calling for dexronIII/mercon?
where can I get them, the ones that are safe to use where dexronIII/mercon is specified?
There is another aspect to the use of a real synthetic that I believe to be important, engine cleanliness, especially where an older vehicle has been switched over to synthetic from petroleum. Deposits are the slow death of an engine, many engines are torn down for rebuild really because of stuck rings etc. Synthetic will keep your engine clean when used from the start, and will clean out built up deposits over time when used in a high miler.
Now again, this may may not pertain to you if you upgrade your vehicle on a regular basis, but you can still realize a cost (and time) saving if you extend your drain interval out to 2 or 3X.
Skeptical about extending drains? So was I until I tried it in a high miler. (over 200,000 mi.) I am now at 16,000 mi. on the same oil and my latest analysis has given me the green light to keep going. Now, I will tell you that I have been spinning on new filters and topping up, as they are filling up with an unreal amount of crud in 6000 mi. The second filter I left on for 10,000 mi. and when cut open, it was obvious that it was left too long. It was so loaded up that the pleats were starting to fold over! This may not be the case for all vehicles, but it certainly is for mine.
So here is an oil that is getting the sh** kicked out of it and is holding up well in an extended drain situation with no increase in oil consumption, (in fact there has been a decrease) low wear metals, and great fuel economy in an old engine that gets driven hard.
BTW--Even though I use dino, I would never argue it to be the equal of syn, merely good enough to keep the engine going longer than the rest of the car is 4000 mile changes are adhered to. I also think that the PAO purists may be straining at gnats and that Castrol is probably as good a synthetic as Mobil. What's the difference between an oil that starts out as oil or natural gas? They've both been sliced and diced so much that they bear little resemblance to the real thing.
Right on!
pjksr - thanks - I'll try to find the trisynth oil, as per your suggestion.
Thanks all.
I thought quite a few already did
If one finds a synthetic he/she prefers that's fine, yet in the final analysis it's an oil analysis for that particular car that wil give credence on how that particular brand of oil is holding up, that in itself speaks volumes both for that oil and that car
However everyone does what they feel is comfortable for them, yet in the long run time has a way of establishing if the decision or choice was a wise one or not
Yeah, I have even seriously heard: What? This thing uses oil?...
I agree with gsleve. If you are going to use synthetics for more than 5,000 miles or so, you should be doing oil analysis to make sure the oil's characteristics are still good after extended mileage. This blind faith that I see in synthetics is naieve, in my opinion. I.e. people using 10-15k drain intervals and being confident that everything is fine, simply because they are using something that says "Synthetic" on the label.
Well I suppose that depending on how you view you you may actually have that backwards? When you recommend for engine oil analysis for synthetic oil should indeed be done for conventional oil as well! Why do we REALLY change it at 3000 miles? Is conventional oil as bad as they claim? Me, personally, I have over 550k miles on 15k intervals with Mobil One synthetic. If it was done merely on blind faith, trust me, I would have had to put out big dollars for unscheduled maintenance because of it! Really that is one of the last things I want to do!
Amsoil indicated 25K or one year. Mobil has tested to 25K with excellent results. Mobil 1 has run numerous tests with oil drain at 15K and almost no wear at 200K. Armdtm who posts here has been running oil analysis since forever. He is probably the one on these boards who who has the best feel for extended drain intervals on his cars with Amsoil.
So it would seem to me that based on the above facts you could change a good quality syn (Mobil 1 ot Amsoil) at least 10K intervals on "blind faith"- with probably a lot of reserve. I just took a sample at 5500 miles on my 2002 Sentra before spinning on a new filter. (Note-did not crawl under said vehicle for this job) After a few more samples I will have the history to "validate" once a year oil changes.
Up til now I, like ruking1 have a 10 year history with Mobil 1 and Amsoil with once every 10 to 12 months on 9 cars and probably at least 500K-no problems. "Blind faith" in Amsoil and Mobil 1 seems to have served me well up til now.
No, I had one with app 250k miles! I did app 17 oil changes where 84 would have normally completed the task!
Would you buy Castrol synthetic instead of Havoline SL?
Some posters in this thread indicate they would avoid the above two synthetics, but I guess you would not.
1) Seek an oil formulated without polymer viscosity-index improvers (ie. synthetic); or
2) Change my dino oil frequently (less than 3000 mi).
This engine illustrates a benefit to synthetic oils: many ("true" synthetics, now) contain no VI improvers. My personal choice has been to go with dino (Chevron Supreme) and change-out often...
(There is no consideration given to wear package above...only analysis would tell)
I really was hoping for some responses, but so far there haven't been any.
"I glad those who use synthetic, in an extended drain environment, have experienced so much success. May it always continue! "
Thanks with the advent of the SL standard for synthetic also I am very temped to do 20-25k drain intervals. But like you say 15k is like once a year whether it needs it or not! Also 15k is a very conservative interval for synthetic oil!
#3641
"It seems your responses are to MY posts. We are not quite in sync in terms of the way the discussion is going. Personally, I have not said I'd be comfortable with a 10,000 mile change interval, with ANY oil. If you really want to respond to the questions I've been asking or the statements I've been making, you'll probably need to read my last 2-3 posts.
I really was hoping for some responses, but so far there haven't been any."
Perhaps if you communicate better what you are looking for, it might help. I will tell you this: synthetic is NO magic bullet, if that is what you are really looking for!? And it might also help to ferret out what you are looking for, if you would respond to the synthetic vs conventional oil point I made in the near above post/s.
The higher temperature tolerance, better lubrication, low ash %(less tendency to form sludge), longer drain interval and subsequent lower cost(25% cheaper per mile of lubrication) are the most important to me. I have 4 vehicles and it lets me change oil once per yr or once every one and half years instead of 5 times. What is important to you?
The truth is that you can change synthetic on the same intervals as convention oil and it will operate just fine! The other truth is is that you can change the oil after EVERY time that you use the car and it will not hurt it it at all! So once again, what is important to you?
#1. I think SL oils are very good oils but will not take the higher temperatures of a PAO/Ester syn. We'll have to wait for someone to submit analysises over a period of time don't hold your breath here. Perhaps could do this?? (Lets only discuss "full syn" - no hydroprocessed Castrols). #2. Not all syns are equal-Mobil tested their oils against quality syn, dino and hydroprocessed oils. They did not perform equally. #3. " After 3,000 miles, is synthetic preventing bad things from happening that conventional oil would not? I think that even ardent syn supporters would say that there is very little difference and that if 3K oil changes is your bag - go for the dino. However if you loose a radiator hose or have a stuck thermostat at 2500 miles with dino don't try to get to the next exit or drive to a more secure location without a huge risk to your $3000 engine. That little extra protection for my wife and daughter and the added benefit of not crawling under the car every 3k works for me. The rest of the arguments are immaterial (for me)
Happy Memorial day-Lets hope we can remember those who gave their lives so we here can indulge in such foolishness!!
If it makes you feel better about your situation to buy and use "synthetics", please do. I don't think the gain is particularly worth the price, so I will continue to use petroleum based engine oil for the time being. If the dynamics shift in this scenario, I'll join you. But in the meantime, I think the smart money is betting on the dinosaurs.
You have really hit the nail on the head. Since I also have long experience in "driving vehicles" professionally, I have seen the side of which you talk. Both the EURO long drain perspective and the heavy duty arena. The consumer area is almost prissy by comparison. The real kicker is that diesel is actually HARDER on oil than unleaded gas and as you know most of industial motor products are DIESEL. Actually I laugh when I hear some of the posters get self righteous and pompous! Judas Priest, we are talking lubricants and bang for the buck!! If one looks at the specifications for some of this equipment let us say it takes WAY more than 7 quarts to do the job! So to get operative, industrial folks talk in terms of what will it take to go 1 million plus miles on this piece of equipment. Most consumers are more concerned with changing the vehicle when 6-8 yrs have gone by with 72k miles. Why do folks insist on making the already known "UNKNOWABLE!!"
So yeah, I have nothing against folks doing 3000 mile interval oil changes! To be honest, I thank them from the bottom of my heart for they will help send my kids to medical and business school from all the dividends and income! The fact that synthetic and long interval issues are ill received indicates to me that I am on the beam.
The industrial arena does a much better job of filtering than the consumer section! Things like preoilers, etc etc. And cost is a huge consideration, and not surprisingly bang for the buck.
Is soneone familiar with this oil? How does it compare? Where are the facts on Castrol Syntec?Is there a downside to the 5-50?
Thanks-Ron