No, it isn't. You failed to absorb the whole part a couple weeks back about some "synthetics" not actually being what folks here consider true synthetics. Do you remember that conversation? Unfortunately, the regulars here declined to explain more about the differences between a true synthetic and a pretender, which was disappointing. Do these 'pretender synthetic oils' fall into your synthetic category or your non-synthetic category?
Some of these hydrocracked 'synthetics' seem to share some basic characteristics of some of the petrol-based oils.
I guess my point is, you cannot just go to the store, buy anything that says "FULL SYNTHETIC" on the label, and rest assured that you are getting an oil with superior (however one wants to define that term) abilities versus all oils marketed as conventional oils. I'm not saying synthetic isn't better, because the evidence seems to say it is. But your blanket statements are taking it a little too far, in my opinion.
Well, I was changing the oil in the Club Sport using (as always)Mobil 1 15W-50. I was using up the rest of my Trisynth stock and had bought a couple of extra bottles to supplement. I noticed the oil in one bottle was significantly darker, and that bottle turned out to be Supersyn...
I agree. The blurry notion of synthetic is such that there is no guarantee that it is always better than any nonsynthetic. Philosophically, does "better" exist when two entities both deliver the desired result? An example would be car A using syn, car B using nonsyn, and both give totally satisfactory results of (say) 150K miles at which time both vehicles are sold for the same price each. This is an easy example to nitpick, but again-- philosophically, the results were the same.
In the lab reports I've read, all of the syns that have been discussed in this topic were tested, including the ones that some have questioned about actually being synthetic. All of them were found superior to dino, even the so called pseudo syns. I guess the bottom line is, use the oil and the change interval you feel the most comfortable with. You seem to have taken in enough info to believe that all syns aren't necessarily superior to all dinos. I've seen enough data to believe that they are.
Like I said, I'm quite comfortable with my 10K change intervals using SuperTech full syn, or 15K change intervals using Mobil 1 (and using a top notch filter, of course).
My wife's '86 BMW 528e used to make some noise on startup. I was using only dealer service with dino. 10 years ago, at about 60k, I switched to Mobil 1 and the noise went away immediately. Now have 185k on it. A few months ago, the car was at the dealers for major service and the mechanic said the innards were very clean. Reason for Mobil 1: Oil seems to get to the top of the engine quicker.
I have a 4 Runner v-6 that I switched to Mobil 1. Why? Because the oil is a major pain to change. Also, oil always leaks onto the skid plate and drips for a long time. I change the Mobil 1 at 8k w/ premium filter vs. dino at 3k with Toyota filter. Costs about the same. Reason for Mobil 1: To extend the drain.
I use MaxLife in my '83 Dodge Ram thats gets light use. Reason for dino: I change oil based on time and I don't want to disturb the seals.
My point. We all have valid reasons for using what we use, syn or dino.
The "best" oil for a specific car depends on many factors. Climate, driving style, mileage per year, and type of engine are all factors that should play a major part in determining your decision. However, I believe that most would agree that only periodic oil analysis actually confirms if you are using the proper oil for your specific vehicle and driving conditions to accomplish your goals.
That's not exactly the complete story. OK, let's say that it will make some engines last longer and may not help others. You could even assume that it will make no difference at all in engine life. As long as it is not worse than dino, you should use synthetics. Why? Well, because it doesn't cost you any more (2X the oil change cost and 2X the drain interval) and you spend half as much time at the oil change shop or under your car. Then the extra engine life is just a bonus IF it does happen.
>>>What about one of the other shockproof fluids that may have as much slippage?<<<
I didn't get ur point.
and regarding friction modifiers, is it safe to use them in trannies calling for dexronIII/mercon? where can I get them, the ones that are safe to use where dexronIII/mercon is specified?
You made a very good point about the synthetic not actually costing more. In fact, when one factors in his time, it can cost a whole lot less.
There is another aspect to the use of a real synthetic that I believe to be important, engine cleanliness, especially where an older vehicle has been switched over to synthetic from petroleum. Deposits are the slow death of an engine, many engines are torn down for rebuild really because of stuck rings etc. Synthetic will keep your engine clean when used from the start, and will clean out built up deposits over time when used in a high miler.
Now again, this may may not pertain to you if you upgrade your vehicle on a regular basis, but you can still realize a cost (and time) saving if you extend your drain interval out to 2 or 3X.
Skeptical about extending drains? So was I until I tried it in a high miler. (over 200,000 mi.) I am now at 16,000 mi. on the same oil and my latest analysis has given me the green light to keep going. Now, I will tell you that I have been spinning on new filters and topping up, as they are filling up with an unreal amount of crud in 6000 mi. The second filter I left on for 10,000 mi. and when cut open, it was obvious that it was left too long. It was so loaded up that the pleats were starting to fold over! This may not be the case for all vehicles, but it certainly is for mine.
So here is an oil that is getting the sh** kicked out of it and is holding up well in an extended drain situation with no increase in oil consumption, (in fact there has been a decrease) low wear metals, and great fuel economy in an old engine that gets driven hard.
I've already bothered the techs at Pennzoil/QS about SuperTech dino. Since you use their synthetic, I'd be curious about the SuperTech synthetic data sheets, if they exist. If I remember correctly QS is supposed to be PAO and Pennzoil severely hydrocracked. At least in dino, the SuperTech oil looked slightly superior to Quaker State, but not as good as Pennzoil.
BTW--Even though I use dino, I would never argue it to be the equal of syn, merely good enough to keep the engine going longer than the rest of the car is 4000 mile changes are adhered to. I also think that the PAO purists may be straining at gnats and that Castrol is probably as good a synthetic as Mobil. What's the difference between an oil that starts out as oil or natural gas? They've both been sliced and diced so much that they bear little resemblance to the real thing.
>>>What's the difference between an oil that starts out as oil or natural gas? They've both been sliced and diced so much that they bear little resemblance to the real thing.<<<<
Everyone knows that Maxlife oil is just as good as some synthetic brands out there even though it is non api certified, but what about maxlife atf? I currently switched from a conventional atf to Redline synthetic atf in my auto tranny to the tune of $7 a bottle. I did a flush so it cost me 49 bucks. Does anyone know if maxlife atf would be just as effective as the redline atf ? The maxlife atf doesn't cost much more than the maxlife oil. However, with the maxlife antifreeze that came out. It makes me weary that Valvoline is trying to cash in on the maxlife name. What do you guys think? any opinions?
As I have said in the past, I spent over ten years using nothing but synthetics. There is no sense reiterating all the reasons that caused me to "see the light" and just go back to the ever-improving petroleum based oils. I still prefer using synthetic hypoid, by the way.
only (my opinion)that if an individual wants to use a synthetic he should establish a trend wear and do a few oil analysis and see how far he can go after about 2 or 3 analysis he has established a trend and can thereafter extend the oils life premised on his analysis and stick with that particular brand if he so wishes.
If one finds a synthetic he/she prefers that's fine, yet in the final analysis it's an oil analysis for that particular car that wil give credence on how that particular brand of oil is holding up, that in itself speaks volumes both for that oil and that car
However everyone does what they feel is comfortable for them, yet in the long run time has a way of establishing if the decision or choice was a wise one or not
Synthetic seems to hold up better for a longer time than petrol-based oil, if you believe what you read. However, I don't think that alone proves synthetic oil is inherently better. After 3,000 miles, is synthetic preventing bad things from happening that conventional oil would not? Perhaps. But I'm not convinced that this will have any meaningful and/or measurable effect on the engine's life or its performance during that useful life.
I agree with gsleve. If you are going to use synthetics for more than 5,000 miles or so, you should be doing oil analysis to make sure the oil's characteristics are still good after extended mileage. This blind faith that I see in synthetics is naieve, in my opinion. I.e. people using 10-15k drain intervals and being confident that everything is fine, simply because they are using something that says "Synthetic" on the label.
Just curious to know how badly, and how quickly, some of the newer/improved/well-regarded SL-rated conventional oils break down and become dangerous to use.
Well I suppose that depending on how you view you you may actually have that backwards? When you recommend for engine oil analysis for synthetic oil should indeed be done for conventional oil as well! Why do we REALLY change it at 3000 miles? Is conventional oil as bad as they claim? Me, personally, I have over 550k miles on 15k intervals with Mobil One synthetic. If it was done merely on blind faith, trust me, I would have had to put out big dollars for unscheduled maintenance because of it! Really that is one of the last things I want to do!
Unless you do oil analysis you are changing oil based on car manufactures' recommendations, Jiffy Lube recommendations, or judgement based on your own comfort level. As was indicated perhaps 3K is a good interval based on quality of conventional oil. Still-auto manufactures indicate you can go further than that-7.5K-on dino. Europe, I beliefe goes 10K. There is evidence that 7.5K is too low even with Dino oils in some driving conditions. Especially since the SL spec is out.
Amsoil indicated 25K or one year. Mobil has tested to 25K with excellent results. Mobil 1 has run numerous tests with oil drain at 15K and almost no wear at 200K. Armdtm who posts here has been running oil analysis since forever. He is probably the one on these boards who who has the best feel for extended drain intervals on his cars with Amsoil. So it would seem to me that based on the above facts you could change a good quality syn (Mobil 1 ot Amsoil) at least 10K intervals on "blind faith"- with probably a lot of reserve. I just took a sample at 5500 miles on my 2002 Sentra before spinning on a new filter. (Note-did not crawl under said vehicle for this job) After a few more samples I will have the history to "validate" once a year oil changes.
Up til now I, like ruking1 have a 10 year history with Mobil 1 and Amsoil with once every 10 to 12 months on 9 cars and probably at least 500K-no problems. "Blind faith" in Amsoil and Mobil 1 seems to have served me well up til now.
In my application, I note that my gears run at a cooler temperature using synthetic hypoid. My evidence is nonscientific, but the touch test convinces me! If my assumptions are correct, I have lower friction in the hub when running synthetic. By extension, I assume that is better.
I haven't based my opinions of syns on blind faith either. It's based on lab test results. I have yet to read any that didn't find syns being superior to dinos in every aspect. You might as well stop trying to convince me that syns aren't superior to dinos, because I know they are.
No, I had one with app 250k miles! I did app 17 oil changes where 84 would have normally completed the task! The rest are on other vehicles! Incidently Porsche, MB, BMW,Corvette,(sorry if I left anybody out) etc. all run factory synthetic. In the two cases that I am personally familiar, MB and Corvette run extended oil change intervals with synthetic oils. Corvette can run as high an interval as 15,000 miles. (which I change between 13-15k)
Then-- Would you choose Royal Purple over Chevron SL? Just wondering... Would you buy Castrol synthetic instead of Havoline SL? Some posters in this thread indicate they would avoid the above two synthetics, but I guess you would not.
Chevron and Halvoline SL are now one and the same company(ChevronTexaco). If I was getting a conventional SL rated oil. I would have no problem with either product. For the synthetic, since Mobil One has app 60% of the synthetic market, it is up to the consumer whether or not they think the extra premium is worth it for the likes of Royal Purple, Castrol, Redline, Amsoil, etc etc.
With the NEW SL rating, conventional oil, I think the real new standard is 7500-12,000 mile intervals. I think that the oil analysis can in effect soothe the concerns for individual cases! Truly the new SL standards set the standard bar a lot higher than even the very stringent SJ standard!
In my case, since I own one of those Toyota 1MZ engines, with gears, I have two choices to avoid oil shear-down:
1) Seek an oil formulated without polymer viscosity-index improvers (ie. synthetic); or
2) Change my dino oil frequently (less than 3000 mi).
This engine illustrates a benefit to synthetic oils: many ("true" synthetics, now) contain no VI improvers. My personal choice has been to go with dino (Chevron Supreme) and change-out often...
(There is no consideration given to wear package above...only analysis would tell)
That is the type of question I've been trying to ask, but I guess I wasn't being specific enough because I have been getting only standard fare about how synthetic is superior. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing it. I anxiously await the answer of the brand-doesn't-matter synthetic lovers.
This is what I find disingenuous. Folks will say that there is no difference between using conventional and synthetic oils. I would say that we are comparing apples to apples if say we are close in oil change interval between conventional and synthetic, then even the bang for the buck argument doesn't hold up. Yet the ones who claim that synthetic is "no better" or except for are the ones who change oil at 3000 miles????!!! And I have been forthwith in telling you I do a 15,000 mile oil change? I say fine I challenge you to extend to 12-15k then the longevity issue and bang for the buck issues are totally moot! Another way of putting it is: it isn't that synthetic is sooooooooo good, it is that the conventional is so bad!!!?? So I bet that youd be less than thrilled to try extended intervals with conventional oil?! Specifically 12k-15k?
I don't think you will find many on this board to argue the superiority of syns vs. dinos. However, many (myself included) do feel uncomfortable with extended oil drains. A lot of people believe that for most driving applications dino works just fine. You will find loads of posters all over the web debating this issue. Hell, I just read a post by a guy who claims to work in the oil industry, saying that 7k oil drain intervals with dino are more than adequate.(He also questions the usefulness of oil filters)I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. A couple of years ago a TV news magazine (20/20 I believe) did a story on oil changes with NYC taxis. At 7500 miles, dino changes there was no additional wear with API certified oils, regardless of brand. These taxis had no cold startups, but were driven in mostly severe conditions. I don't know the length of the study. it may have been 35-50k miles. I guess my logic is that 3/4k oil and filter changes are a small part of my overall expense. I feel comfortable with them. It's easier for me to remember (old age you know!) I glad those who use synthetic, in an extended drain environment, have experienced so much success. May it always continue!
It seems your responses are to MY posts. We are not quite in sync in terms of the way the discussion is going. Personally, I have not said I'd be comfortable with a 10,000 mile change interval, with ANY oil. If you really want to respond to the questions I've been asking or the statements I've been making, you'll probably need to read my last 2-3 posts.
I really was hoping for some responses, but so far there haven't been any.
#3640 "I glad those who use synthetic, in an extended drain environment, have experienced so much success. May it always continue! "
Thanks with the advent of the SL standard for synthetic also I am very temped to do 20-25k drain intervals. But like you say 15k is like once a year whether it needs it or not! Also 15k is a very conservative interval for synthetic oil!
#3641 "It seems your responses are to MY posts. We are not quite in sync in terms of the way the discussion is going. Personally, I have not said I'd be comfortable with a 10,000 mile change interval, with ANY oil. If you really want to respond to the questions I've been asking or the statements I've been making, you'll probably need to read my last 2-3 posts.
I really was hoping for some responses, but so far there haven't been any."
Perhaps if you communicate better what you are looking for, it might help. I will tell you this: synthetic is NO magic bullet, if that is what you are really looking for!? And it might also help to ferret out what you are looking for, if you would respond to the synthetic vs conventional oil point I made in the near above post/s.
The higher temperature tolerance, better lubrication, low ash %(less tendency to form sludge), longer drain interval and subsequent lower cost(25% cheaper per mile of lubrication) are the most important to me. I have 4 vehicles and it lets me change oil once per yr or once every one and half years instead of 5 times. What is important to you?
The truth is that you can change synthetic on the same intervals as convention oil and it will operate just fine! The other truth is is that you can change the oil after EVERY time that you use the car and it will not hurt it it at all! So once again, what is important to you?
Let's put it this way, when it comes to giving my engine the best protection it can get, I would use ANY full synthetic over ANY blend, or ANY dino. ANY full synthetic is superior, period. Anyone whos says othewise is full of $hit! I choose to use SuperTech full syn, because it's the least expensive. It's still better than ANY blend or dino available.
I also went back and read your posts and you asked a number of questions but then speculated the answer. I am not really sure which question(s) you are not getting answers for. Perhaps you could clearly frame the question(s) without answering them yourself. I'll take a stab at what I think your quandary(s) is(are).
#1. I think SL oils are very good oils but will not take the higher temperatures of a PAO/Ester syn. We'll have to wait for someone to submit analysises over a period of time don't hold your breath here. Perhaps could do this?? (Lets only discuss "full syn" - no hydroprocessed Castrols). #2. Not all syns are equal-Mobil tested their oils against quality syn, dino and hydroprocessed oils. They did not perform equally. #3. " After 3,000 miles, is synthetic preventing bad things from happening that conventional oil would not? I think that even ardent syn supporters would say that there is very little difference and that if 3K oil changes is your bag - go for the dino. However if you loose a radiator hose or have a stuck thermostat at 2500 miles with dino don't try to get to the next exit or drive to a more secure location without a huge risk to your $3000 engine. That little extra protection for my wife and daughter and the added benefit of not crawling under the car every 3k works for me. The rest of the arguments are immaterial (for me)
Happy Memorial day-Lets hope we can remember those who gave their lives so we here can indulge in such foolishness!!
As a scientist I would not choose to say that any synthetic is superior to any petroleum. Have you ever noticed how flamboyant statements tend to come back and haunt us? There are many of us out here that have "gone the synthetic route" and have eventually come to realize that there is a lot of gamesmanship and hype in the synthetic lube business. The rules are not well established, even for simply defining the products. We detect a lot of apparent hiding of information, and therefore the risk factors are difficult to assess. The prices on synthetics seem to generally be out of line, in the sense that you pay way too much for a somewhat superior product, and you may be getting fooled by a company that is hiding information in order to stay deep in your pocket. If it makes you feel better about your situation to buy and use "synthetics", please do. I don't think the gain is particularly worth the price, so I will continue to use petroleum based engine oil for the time being. If the dynamics shift in this scenario, I'll join you. But in the meantime, I think the smart money is betting on the dinosaurs.
How can the over seas population get away with 7500 or 10k drains on conventional oil?If I have been reading correctly many auto manufactures mostly high end ones recomend these drains not specifing synthic Well some do and some don't.I just had a new engine put in my montero at $4,349.00 and I think the chevron delo400 10w 30 will do the job since it has been proven for longer drains and better protection as a dino product.I have a Question? Why does'nt heavy Industry use synthetics for extended drains? They push oil to the max for drains and cleaness.I would say the majority use delo/rotilla or some other dino industrial lubricant.I've never heard of amsoil,mobilone,shaffers,or any other consumer popular synthetic in the DC10 cat or the John deer back loader or that thing at the county dump that has (4) 60 inch metal wheels. They won't let me drive it either I asked.I work for Overhead Door and do plenty of commercial service work and I talk to the shop people and not one has said Oh hay I use Amsoil in are Equipment.I look around their shop and see mostly chevron products/shell/texico and thats about it.And chevron makes a synthetic delo400 too.Pao based.Tony
#3646 You have really hit the nail on the head. Since I also have long experience in "driving vehicles" professionally, I have seen the side of which you talk. Both the EURO long drain perspective and the heavy duty arena. The consumer area is almost prissy by comparison. The real kicker is that diesel is actually HARDER on oil than unleaded gas and as you know most of industial motor products are DIESEL. Actually I laugh when I hear some of the posters get self righteous and pompous! Judas Priest, we are talking lubricants and bang for the buck!! If one looks at the specifications for some of this equipment let us say it takes WAY more than 7 quarts to do the job! So to get operative, industrial folks talk in terms of what will it take to go 1 million plus miles on this piece of equipment. Most consumers are more concerned with changing the vehicle when 6-8 yrs have gone by with 72k miles. Why do folks insist on making the already known "UNKNOWABLE!!"
So yeah, I have nothing against folks doing 3000 mile interval oil changes! To be honest, I thank them from the bottom of my heart for they will help send my kids to medical and business school from all the dividends and income! The fact that synthetic and long interval issues are ill received indicates to me that I am on the beam.
The industrial arena does a much better job of filtering than the consumer section! Things like preoilers, etc etc. And cost is a huge consideration, and not surprisingly bang for the buck.
It was a dino product(Like you said) that let the cummins/detroit/cat and others go a million miles on extended drains (compared to 3k drains) without a overhaul. And I can buy this stuff for 1.67 a Quart.Tony
I'm not bashing you synthetic lovers,I'm 32 and used synthetic oil for 4 years,I started with castrol then mobil then chevron supreme synthetic.I've never had a car more than 40k, so during this time I never experenced any oil related problems.I like this thread and while some people make sence and some don't I don't mind. Look at myself I tried to post on the oilfilter board recently and made no sence at all?The car I have now I will keep till I get the house payed off 15 years.So I'm going to give my oil theores a test.Tony
Where's the hype in actually seeing the results of synthetic oils? Where's the hype in reading the lab test results? This isn't hype, this is reality. The reality is that synthetics are superior.
Comments
Some of these hydrocracked 'synthetics' seem to share some basic characteristics of some of the petrol-based oils.
I guess my point is, you cannot just go to the store, buy anything that says "FULL SYNTHETIC" on the label, and rest assured that you are getting an oil with superior (however one wants to define that term) abilities versus all oils marketed as conventional oils. I'm not saying synthetic isn't better, because the evidence seems to say it is. But your blanket statements are taking it a little too far, in my opinion.
Like I said, I'm quite comfortable with my 10K change intervals using SuperTech full syn, or 15K change intervals using Mobil 1 (and using a top notch filter, of course).
I have a 4 Runner v-6 that I switched to Mobil 1. Why? Because the oil is a major pain to change. Also, oil always leaks onto the skid plate and drips for a long time. I change the Mobil 1 at 8k w/ premium filter vs. dino at 3k with Toyota filter. Costs about the same. Reason for Mobil 1: To extend the drain.
I use MaxLife in my '83 Dodge Ram thats gets light use. Reason for dino: I change oil based on time and I don't want to disturb the seals.
My point. We all have valid reasons for using what we use, syn or dino.
May all your oils protect,
Jack
I didn't get ur point.
and regarding friction modifiers, is it safe to use them in trannies calling for dexronIII/mercon?
where can I get them, the ones that are safe to use where dexronIII/mercon is specified?
There is another aspect to the use of a real synthetic that I believe to be important, engine cleanliness, especially where an older vehicle has been switched over to synthetic from petroleum. Deposits are the slow death of an engine, many engines are torn down for rebuild really because of stuck rings etc. Synthetic will keep your engine clean when used from the start, and will clean out built up deposits over time when used in a high miler.
Now again, this may may not pertain to you if you upgrade your vehicle on a regular basis, but you can still realize a cost (and time) saving if you extend your drain interval out to 2 or 3X.
Skeptical about extending drains? So was I until I tried it in a high miler. (over 200,000 mi.) I am now at 16,000 mi. on the same oil and my latest analysis has given me the green light to keep going. Now, I will tell you that I have been spinning on new filters and topping up, as they are filling up with an unreal amount of crud in 6000 mi. The second filter I left on for 10,000 mi. and when cut open, it was obvious that it was left too long. It was so loaded up that the pleats were starting to fold over! This may not be the case for all vehicles, but it certainly is for mine.
So here is an oil that is getting the sh** kicked out of it and is holding up well in an extended drain situation with no increase in oil consumption, (in fact there has been a decrease) low wear metals, and great fuel economy in an old engine that gets driven hard.
BTW--Even though I use dino, I would never argue it to be the equal of syn, merely good enough to keep the engine going longer than the rest of the car is 4000 mile changes are adhered to. I also think that the PAO purists may be straining at gnats and that Castrol is probably as good a synthetic as Mobil. What's the difference between an oil that starts out as oil or natural gas? They've both been sliced and diced so much that they bear little resemblance to the real thing.
Right on!
pjksr - thanks - I'll try to find the trisynth oil, as per your suggestion.
Thanks all.
I thought quite a few already did
If one finds a synthetic he/she prefers that's fine, yet in the final analysis it's an oil analysis for that particular car that wil give credence on how that particular brand of oil is holding up, that in itself speaks volumes both for that oil and that car
However everyone does what they feel is comfortable for them, yet in the long run time has a way of establishing if the decision or choice was a wise one or not
Yeah, I have even seriously heard: What? This thing uses oil?...
I agree with gsleve. If you are going to use synthetics for more than 5,000 miles or so, you should be doing oil analysis to make sure the oil's characteristics are still good after extended mileage. This blind faith that I see in synthetics is naieve, in my opinion. I.e. people using 10-15k drain intervals and being confident that everything is fine, simply because they are using something that says "Synthetic" on the label.
Well I suppose that depending on how you view you you may actually have that backwards? When you recommend for engine oil analysis for synthetic oil should indeed be done for conventional oil as well! Why do we REALLY change it at 3000 miles? Is conventional oil as bad as they claim? Me, personally, I have over 550k miles on 15k intervals with Mobil One synthetic. If it was done merely on blind faith, trust me, I would have had to put out big dollars for unscheduled maintenance because of it! Really that is one of the last things I want to do!
Amsoil indicated 25K or one year. Mobil has tested to 25K with excellent results. Mobil 1 has run numerous tests with oil drain at 15K and almost no wear at 200K. Armdtm who posts here has been running oil analysis since forever. He is probably the one on these boards who who has the best feel for extended drain intervals on his cars with Amsoil.
So it would seem to me that based on the above facts you could change a good quality syn (Mobil 1 ot Amsoil) at least 10K intervals on "blind faith"- with probably a lot of reserve. I just took a sample at 5500 miles on my 2002 Sentra before spinning on a new filter. (Note-did not crawl under said vehicle for this job) After a few more samples I will have the history to "validate" once a year oil changes.
Up til now I, like ruking1 have a 10 year history with Mobil 1 and Amsoil with once every 10 to 12 months on 9 cars and probably at least 500K-no problems. "Blind faith" in Amsoil and Mobil 1 seems to have served me well up til now.
No, I had one with app 250k miles! I did app 17 oil changes where 84 would have normally completed the task!
Would you buy Castrol synthetic instead of Havoline SL?
Some posters in this thread indicate they would avoid the above two synthetics, but I guess you would not.
1) Seek an oil formulated without polymer viscosity-index improvers (ie. synthetic); or
2) Change my dino oil frequently (less than 3000 mi).
This engine illustrates a benefit to synthetic oils: many ("true" synthetics, now) contain no VI improvers. My personal choice has been to go with dino (Chevron Supreme) and change-out often...
(There is no consideration given to wear package above...only analysis would tell)
I really was hoping for some responses, but so far there haven't been any.
"I glad those who use synthetic, in an extended drain environment, have experienced so much success. May it always continue! "
Thanks with the advent of the SL standard for synthetic also I am very temped to do 20-25k drain intervals. But like you say 15k is like once a year whether it needs it or not! Also 15k is a very conservative interval for synthetic oil!
#3641
"It seems your responses are to MY posts. We are not quite in sync in terms of the way the discussion is going. Personally, I have not said I'd be comfortable with a 10,000 mile change interval, with ANY oil. If you really want to respond to the questions I've been asking or the statements I've been making, you'll probably need to read my last 2-3 posts.
I really was hoping for some responses, but so far there haven't been any."
Perhaps if you communicate better what you are looking for, it might help. I will tell you this: synthetic is NO magic bullet, if that is what you are really looking for!? And it might also help to ferret out what you are looking for, if you would respond to the synthetic vs conventional oil point I made in the near above post/s.
The higher temperature tolerance, better lubrication, low ash %(less tendency to form sludge), longer drain interval and subsequent lower cost(25% cheaper per mile of lubrication) are the most important to me. I have 4 vehicles and it lets me change oil once per yr or once every one and half years instead of 5 times. What is important to you?
The truth is that you can change synthetic on the same intervals as convention oil and it will operate just fine! The other truth is is that you can change the oil after EVERY time that you use the car and it will not hurt it it at all! So once again, what is important to you?
#1. I think SL oils are very good oils but will not take the higher temperatures of a PAO/Ester syn. We'll have to wait for someone to submit analysises over a period of time don't hold your breath here. Perhaps could do this?? (Lets only discuss "full syn" - no hydroprocessed Castrols). #2. Not all syns are equal-Mobil tested their oils against quality syn, dino and hydroprocessed oils. They did not perform equally. #3. " After 3,000 miles, is synthetic preventing bad things from happening that conventional oil would not? I think that even ardent syn supporters would say that there is very little difference and that if 3K oil changes is your bag - go for the dino. However if you loose a radiator hose or have a stuck thermostat at 2500 miles with dino don't try to get to the next exit or drive to a more secure location without a huge risk to your $3000 engine. That little extra protection for my wife and daughter and the added benefit of not crawling under the car every 3k works for me. The rest of the arguments are immaterial (for me)
Happy Memorial day-Lets hope we can remember those who gave their lives so we here can indulge in such foolishness!!
If it makes you feel better about your situation to buy and use "synthetics", please do. I don't think the gain is particularly worth the price, so I will continue to use petroleum based engine oil for the time being. If the dynamics shift in this scenario, I'll join you. But in the meantime, I think the smart money is betting on the dinosaurs.
You have really hit the nail on the head. Since I also have long experience in "driving vehicles" professionally, I have seen the side of which you talk. Both the EURO long drain perspective and the heavy duty arena. The consumer area is almost prissy by comparison. The real kicker is that diesel is actually HARDER on oil than unleaded gas and as you know most of industial motor products are DIESEL. Actually I laugh when I hear some of the posters get self righteous and pompous! Judas Priest, we are talking lubricants and bang for the buck!! If one looks at the specifications for some of this equipment let us say it takes WAY more than 7 quarts to do the job! So to get operative, industrial folks talk in terms of what will it take to go 1 million plus miles on this piece of equipment. Most consumers are more concerned with changing the vehicle when 6-8 yrs have gone by with 72k miles. Why do folks insist on making the already known "UNKNOWABLE!!"
So yeah, I have nothing against folks doing 3000 mile interval oil changes! To be honest, I thank them from the bottom of my heart for they will help send my kids to medical and business school from all the dividends and income! The fact that synthetic and long interval issues are ill received indicates to me that I am on the beam.
The industrial arena does a much better job of filtering than the consumer section! Things like preoilers, etc etc. And cost is a huge consideration, and not surprisingly bang for the buck.
Is soneone familiar with this oil? How does it compare? Where are the facts on Castrol Syntec?Is there a downside to the 5-50?
Thanks-Ron