Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing

miksmi

already paid the sales tax on the car .. and that they can not get the $ back

bzzz -- FALSE! File an amended Sales & Use Tax return. MD, VA, and DC have this; I'm sure NY does too. Sure, it's a pain but it's quite doable. Actually, what's more common is to make a general ledger entry to adjust the internal books and report the correct amount when the next payment is due. Very above board procedure and GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Procedure). I'm not an accountant but I deal with state Sales & Use Tax in my business.

The owner means "I don't want to go through the hassle of getting the $ back." BTW he doesn't need to receive the tax money before repaying your niece -- he is using this excuse as leverage (and is getting the float). His statement is excellent legal fodder.

Glad she's doing the right thing. Please tell your niece I empathize with her.

the local news station Hehe, that'll get the dealer's attention. Good for her.

..Mike

paisan

99% chance it won't make the news, which means it will likely not be that meaningful. The BBB and attorney generals office will be more helpful to her.

-mike

paisan

I bet they didn't pay the sales tax yet.

In NYS you pay the sales tax on a car when you register it at DMV, or proof that you paid the dealer the tax. The dealer doesn't pay the sales tax until the end of the quarter. Unless they prepped the car, and it has her plates and registration on it, they didn't pay any taxes yet.

-mike

bat1161

Miksmi-She called the dealer and told him the forms for a tax credit were available online, and would he like her to print them out and fax them to him, but he declined.

Paisan-The dealer said they had started the paper work with DMV, but no plates yet.

We'll wait and see. Getting back on topic- I told her next time a Subaru so that we don't have to go through this garbage!

Mark

ateixeira

I'm with my paisano on this one. I seriously doubt they ever paid any tax. They're just bluffing.

-juice

p0926

There's no reason to let the process frustrate you. I just treat it as a kind of sport and actually enjoy doing it. For example, I look forward to telling the sales person that I'm not paying one cent, much less a $1,000 for their useless dealer add-on "undercoating and paint protectorant" package. In fact, I was somewhat disappointed when I purchased the Forester cause the dealer's initial offer was so close to invoice that it kinda took all the fun out of it.

For those of you that want car buying to go the milk buying route, you can get milk for different prices depending on whether you have a member card, which store is running a sale etc. Doesn't it frustrate you if the guy across town bought his gallon of milk for 50 cents less?

One final thought. Those car buyers who are unwilling to haggle are subsidizing those who are and enable us to get a better deal. Therefore, when BigFrank says "You are not going to make a lot of money off of me, but I am perfectly willing to help your volume, if you make this easy", the dealer more often than not will deal with him because he knows that some other sucker will soon walk thru the door and pay MSRP.

-Frank

bigfrank3

Absolutely right. I have never had a dealer chase me away. They don't offend easily.

It's also supply and demand. There are a LOT of cars for sale and only a relatively few buyers. It's a cutthroat business and they know if I walk away, someone down the street will give me exactly what I want. They also know if I buy down the street, I might start there next time, and tell my friends, so they _really_ want the sale. Much more than they let on.

Hagglers know the advantage is ours.

Regards,
this Frank

kullenberg

I have to agree with "big frank3". There is an element of sport involved, plus it needs to be said there is always the holdback. In the case of Subaru, it's 3% of the total MSRP. That's a healthy shot. In the case of a VDC, it's around $12-1300! He can afford to haggle! Now, you really want to get tough, start digging in to the hold back and watch them scream. If new car dealers had to depend on the profit of new car sales to survive, none would. They make the dough on service, finance kickbacks ( if the rate is good, you can do a win/win here by using the dealer's financing)and used car sales. Don't ever think any sales mgr is going to make a deal in which the dealership doesn't make money somewhere.

Cheers Pat in NC

ateixeira

Good point, Frank. Milk is $2 at Costco, $2.75 or $2.85 at Shoppers, depending on the brand, and over $3 at the convenience store near me. That's a 50% markup!

Can you imagine a Forester L for $20k at one dealer, and $30k at another?

You're also right about the suckers. One of my wife's old high school buddes dropped $36 grand on a Durango. Now I don't care how much you load it up, THIRTY SIX GRAND? I found them a bit pricey at $28 grand when I looked!

-juice

rsholland

a waste of time and energy. It's frustrating and stressful. I'd rather pay a few extra bucks and avoid the whole mess. I've got better (and far more enjoyable) things to do with my time.

Bob

p0926

Gee Bob, wish I was as financially independent as you ;-)
As it is, I'm willing to spend a couple of hours haggling if it'll save me a couple of thousand dollars off the price of a new car cause that's certainly alot more than I make on an hourly basis!

-Frank P.

rgarbaccio

Located in Bridgeport, only Subaru dealer in the area that has loaner cars.

Also - spoke to Becker on the phone....they sound like they have great prices indeed.

Can't wait to start shopping next weekend. Going to get a Legacy L almost for sure...just can't decide on new vs. used.

Any opinions on program cars?

kens

A lot of times, simply asking (vs. heated debate) is enough to lower a price. It's suprising how many people are even hesitant to even question a given price.

On the other hand, some people lose objectivity and forget that there's more to bargain on a product than price. I'll sometimes gladly pay a higher price on a good/service if I know I'll be getting better customer support.

Ken

ateixeira

Rob: I don't know about program cars. You never know how it was broken in.

Depends on the price, I guess. Usually Subies do not depreciate much, so the price break isn't worth it.

For example, I see used 1998 Foresters for $14-15k, when new ones start as low as $19k. Doesn't seem worth it to buy used.

-juice

rsholland

I just find "one price dealers" like Fitzgerald's, which offers very good prices. Yeah I could probably save a bit more if I went to some other dealer and haggled. For me the experience is not worth the hassle.

I find haggling a very unpleasant (and for me—unnatural) way about doing business, and conducting life in general. It has nothing to do with being financially independent (which I'm not).

It may float your boat, but it sinks mine.

Bob

ateixeira

Fitz prices are pretty good to begin with. I'd venture to say that generally people pay more, not less, than their no-haggle prices. Though this may be due to our region having 7 dealers competing with each other.

There are very few exceptions, but not many.

-juice

rsholland

the absolute best bottom-line price—you got to haggle. I'm looking for a good low price. What I do is a lot of research first. Then I make my decision. It's probably not the lowest price, but it's generally still good price. I can live with that.

Bob

wmiller4

Does anyone remember the post explaining what really happens when you "order" a vehicle from a dealer? I seem to remember you have to get the dealer to configure (order) one of their quarterly allocation cars with the options you want. Am I right? How long does it take to get the "ordered" vehicle in? Anyone remember?

Thanks in advance for the help. (Getting ready to take the plunge!)

paisan

6-8 weeks is what it takes to get a car fully ordered from the factory through a dealer. If it is a common configuration it may take less time, since the dealer may have one already on order and in the process of being delivered to him.

-mike

miksmi

Bill, my profile (the hyperlink "miksmi" above) contains a hyperlink to fudd2be's factory order post. What are you going to buy?

..Mike

wmiller4

Thanks for the link!

I am looking to purchase a Granite Black 2002 LL Bean.

Options: Rear Spoiler, Rear Gate Bar, Hood Deflector (Acrylic).

I will use the Subie points I accrue in the future to get other options
and install them myself, thanks to the amount of information available
on this board.

You are all fantastic. (Yes even you paisan! )

miksmi

IMO having the gate bar and spoiler installed at the factory is a good idea. Though DIY items, I wouldn't relish compromising the sheet metal and the factory-applied rust inhibitor.

I'd order as many factory-installed options as affordable. Aftermarket accessories are more expensive than factory-installed options due to the different pricing structure. Plus, installation is included in the factory option price. Aftermarket, you pay for installation unless you DIY. E.g., subaruparts.com sells a 2001 spoiler for $214 + S&H + installation (if not DIY); the Edmunds invoice price on a 2002 spoiler is $192 (I used the most recent MY available on the respective websites).

What future options are you considering? Just curious.

..Mike

wmiller4

I agree with you totally. I am very shy about drilling holes in a brand new car. The future options I am considering: Trailer Hitch, Rear Differential Protector, Cargo Net, Wheel Locks, Weather Tech Mats. ( I have a pair of them for my current truck and they are great!)

I want the factory to do the hard ones and I should be able to do the rest.

originalbitman

What options are factory installed vs port installed vs dealer installed? I think things like the gate bar are in fact done at the dealer.

bit

ateixeira

I think most are port installed. The dealer adds a labor charge to any option they install, so you'd know it if they did it.

William: the hitch and skid plate bolt on, no drill required. The cargo net does require drilling through plastic. The rest is a piece of cake.

-juice

miksmi

bit,

In 2000, Edmunds listed DIO (dealer installed option) or PIO (port installed option); curiously, no longer. Fortunately, CarPoint does. Here's the rundown per CarPoint:

PIO Rear Spoiler
PIO Rear Gate Bar
PIO Hood Deflector (Acrylic)
PIO Trailer Hitch
PIO Rear Differential Protector
PIO Cargo Net
PIO Wheel Locks

All (of the above) options are also available as DIO.

Bill (or is it William? - I thought you once signed as Bill),

I considered the Rear Bumper Corner Molding (#BCM) to protect the bumper from parking lot dings but decided I wouldn't like the look on a GT wagon. Might look fine on your LL Bean (but I'd prefer to see one first). Knock on wood, no dings yet.

..Mike

nygreg

was installed by the dealer. Nice job. Love it.

Greg

bigfrank3

When I ordered my Forester some of the options were dealer installed even though I paid the factory/port price. When the port gets backed up they just throw the parts in the back and ship to the dealer. The dealer likes it when this happens because they get paid by the port to "finish" the job.

Regards,
Frank

paisan

I'd never want a dealer to install a PIO available option. 90% of the dealers are not competant to install that stuff.

-mike

wmiller4

Juice: Have you installed the cargo net? On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the hardest what degree of difficulty would you rate the DIY install of the cargo net?

Mike: Rear Bumper Corner Molding! I forgot about that. That is a great idea. Thank you. I should have the dealer do that so it gets put on right (read straight!)

Paisan: I agree. The port will be very practiced at putting on those options and will most likely get it right the first time. The dealer? Who knows how many Rear Gate Bars they have installed?

My plan is to wait until September 27 to go into dealership (end of month, end of quarter) I hope to get a great price on both LL Bean and my trade in.

bigfrank3

mike - In my case it was just the armrest and security system. They did a great job and I wouldn't have known if I hadn't seen it come in with the parts in the back. My wife's stuff was all port and there is no apparent difference. YMMV

William - One point from my previous note is that you may think it is installed at the port, but it might not be.

Regards,
Frank

miksmi

You're welcome. Time to revisit that option list. Read it when you're not in a rush. The option photos in the back of the brochure helped me. You're in MD, as I recall; what dealer?

..Mike

wmiller4

Frank: Good point. I still want someone other than myself who can be held responsible to fix the part of the car that is drilled improperly or replace the part that is installed improperly.

Juice: Thanks I will go for the OE one. Thanks for the install info.

Mike: Michigan, near East Lansing home of Michigan State University. RBC Molding is not in the 2002 book! That's why I missed it. I plan on going to Williams Auto World in Lansing. I really hope to be able to purchase there but I am a little concerned about Edmunds reported TMV right now. I want to pay no more than 28,000 not including TTL. Edmunds TMV is around 29,400. I am willing to go 1000 below the trade in value on my truck per NADA Guide trade in value. That's the plan any way. If it doesn't work there I keep looking. Some one out there wants to sell me a LL Bean.

Thanks again everyone. Ain't the Internet wonderful?

miksmi

MD, MI, whatever. Try updating your profile to see if "MDA" goes away.

Here are LL Bean accessories and Rear Bumper Corner Molding:



Yup, da net r00lz.

..Mike

pattim3

Port installed options are installed at a dealer due to availability issues. If an option is delayed, there is no sense in holding up the car. Dealers are provided with detailed instructions on installation and the options are shipped direct to the dealer to avoid delays. They usually end up at the dealer around the same time. It's unusual to hear that a dealer did poor installation, but we want to know about it if they do.

Thanks!

Patti

paisan

I'd probably rather get caned than get 90% of the dealers I know of to install any options. Maybe I'm jaded due to poor service from most dealers, but if I had a choice to wait 5 weeks to get the PIO I'd take it rather than a PIO installed by the Dealer. Just my feeling though.

-mike

ateixeira

Given the choice, I'd take PIO, but a dealer installed my cruise control and the job was perfect.

Everything else I installed myself. It's a mircale nothing's fallen off, eh? :-)

-juice

tincup47

Most port technicians have less training and make less money than dealer techs. I have never had a problem with a dealer installed accessory.

ateixeira

Maybe, but these guys are doing the same thing over and over again.

My rear diffy protector was hard to install, but it would be a snap the 2nd time around.

-juice

paisan

I'm going by the outstanding service I've recieved at 90% of the dealers I've brought my cars (rude, arrogant, forgets items, dirty condition of vehicle upon return) just shows me that the dealers techs don't care about the cars. I wouldn't want these guys installing options in my car, at least not cosmetic ones.

-mike

msuvet

I purchased my VDC from William's in February. They didn't seem to have any problems meeting my price, which was based on Fitgerald's internet price at the time (not the exact Fitz's price, but close). Come to think about it, they probably would have taken less... Being they sell other up-market brands, maybe they can make their money on the Audis, Porsches, BMW(?), etc! I was very happy with them, took time to explain everything. I only wish I was closer (live an hour+ away in Bay City, which btw does have a Subaru dealership) to bring in for maintenance, etc.
Go Spartans!
Christina

wmiller4

I remember when you posted before and after you bought. Thanks you very much for sharing your experience. How do you like your VDC? How did it perform in the winter? I hope to have a great time with Williams Auto World myself. (Did you see MSU is going to put turf in Spartan Stadium next year? They are growing it in a fenced-in area south of the Turf Grass School East of the MSU pavilion. Do you have your tickets for the "Cold War"? Go Green! Go White! Go Spartans!) Sorry about that folks.........

msuvet

I do like my VDC alot. I got it after most of the worst (best?) winter weather was finished, though. I did drive it in a sleet/freezing rain condition, & it was great. I haven't noticed any of the problems mentioned in the VDC group (hesitation, cold start problems). I *love* the H-6! Much more power than my old car, which I still have & drive to put miles on (imagine the willpower to do that when you have a Subie sitting in the garage!)

I hadn't heard about the natural turf - I always thought it silly that they had artificial turf when the Turfgrass school was right there!
Didn't get tickets for the big Cold War - I didn't get around to it before they stopped selling them.

OK, back to regularly scheduled programming...
christina

web3

We just got a new 2002 Subaru Outback Limited 5 speed from Beechmont Subaru in Cincinnati, Ohio. The staff at the dealership couldn't have been nicer. When we went to pick up the car they spent time explaining all the options and features of the car and had the gas tank filled to go. We recommend them for their good prices and availability. We hope their service is as good as their sales.

rochcom

Has anyone heard of any recent special promotions from Subaru such as the 3 year free maintenance plan they once offered through affinity groups?

ctcar

Can you recommend a good Subaru dealer in CT? Has anybody dealt with Schaller Subaru in New Britain or Mitchell Subaru in Canton for their new car purchase...........Thank You

raybear

I prefer Mitchell over Schaller, I think the latter has gotten a little too big.

twinrotts

I just needed to jump in the middle here.
We in greater Rochester NY area are extremely fortunate to have a dealer in Victor NY named Van Bortel Subaru.
This is one of those one price dealers who leave all cars on the lot (BTW this is the highest volume dealership in the USA) unlocked with the keys inside.
Mention to a sales person you are interested in a test drive and they hand you a dealer plate.
Just walk to the car you are interested slap on the plate and drive away.
I spent almost 2 hours today moving between a WRX, a Impreza RS, an Outback SUS H6 and a Legacy Sedan GT. No dicker prices are posted on the windshield plus they will hand you a price list with all options listed showing dealer cost, MSRP and VB cost. Nice way to purchase a car!!!
Buy a car from them and get rewarded with competent service, free loaners, and lifetime $10 oil and filter changes.

ateixeira

Jeff: I think LL Bean models get free maintenance, and the Legacy line has a $750 incentive on 2001 models in some markets.

That's all I'm aware of, besides the Subaru credit card.

-juice

rochcom

Thanks, Juice. Subaru seems to keep some promotions, such as the free maintence deal they offered a few years ago through affinity groups, a secret. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me -- how will a promotion help sell cars if no one knows about it?