No big surprise that a person who likes Toyota does NOT like Chrysler. Could the corollary be that a person who loved his 2002 Chrysler T&C does not like his 2006 Toyota Sienna?
IF Toyota or Honda had offered a Lifetime Powertrain Warranty, the same people who mock Chrysler would be writing praises of Toyota or Honda.
My daughter's 1999 GC SE has over 101,000 miles and has NEVER needed a repair. My sister had zero problems with a 1986 Caravan that had 170,000 miles before it was sold to their friend.
No I'd say the same thing about Toyota--in fact, I'd be even more skeptical, because Toyota doesn't need to extend its warranty. So I'd be really puzzled why they'd add extra expense to boost a product whose image is already flying high apparently.
I mean, I UNDERSTAND why Chrysler is doing this, I just don't think it's going to do them any good---or should I say, not enough good to justify the expense or the embarrassment of having to withdraw the offer later on.
I could see Lexus possibly extending warranty since the competition on the very high luxury end is pretty vicious.
RE: not needing repairs: Could be sis is the luckiest woman alive, right? I mean, people fall off buildings and land on a mattress truck--that doesn't make it normal
All I'm saying is that I think whatever Toyota's reputation, Chrysler's is worse in the public eye at the moment. Having a wart or two isn't the same as internal injuries.
Thats when the decline starts. I have said this before here. Toyota is heading down the same road Ford went. On top of the world thinking you are 10 foot tall and bullet proof and then you wake up one morning and your market share has dropped 15%.
All the signs are there, so far this year they have recalled more then sold and have very quietly gone through a sludge problem.
I am not knocking Toyota, just saying that what it takes to be #1 can be the down fall of your product
WHEN was Ford #1? Ford has been # 1 only in pickup and sedan sales in the past few decades with the F-series and Taurus.
Wasn't it GM who was #1 for many years?
Toyota is having problems because recent Toyota buyers who owned another brand have learned by personal experience that Toyota vehicles are NOT better than other brands. I will NOT be a repeat Toyota buyer even though I like the dealership and the salesman who sold me the Sienna. I think the Odyssey is a better product than the Sienna.
This is anecdotal, but as I said in another forum I have been much more impressed with the build quality of our 2001 Ody at work then the build quality of the two 2005 Siennas we have. They Ody has 130 or 140 K on it by now but still feels rock solid on the inside, whereas we have lots of little trim pieces loose or broken already on the Siennas.
I think another factor is managing all that. when you get a company that big, with that many plants, employees, suppliers, and dealerships; it's got to be a challenge to keep control over all of it. Doesn't seem to me that it would be hard for things to spiral out of control real fast.
But all the surveys and all the magazines suggest they ARE better in longterm reliability. How do we explain that Toyota wins time and time again? How does Toyota get all those stars and red circles and green dots that keep saying "buy me, buy me?"
I'm not referring to "initial quality" surveys, which are pretty meaningless if the car falls apart in 2 years.
And how do we explain the substantial resale value of a Toyota vis a vis an older Chevy Ford or Chrysler?
Now in the case of Mercedes, people were saying some years ago "they aren't the car they used to be" and the data backed that up. But it's not backing up any claims about Toyota.
But all the surveys and all the magazines suggest they ARE better in longterm reliability.
Maybe in the past but now with a simple google search you see they are really no better off then any of there competitors.
From 04-06 there recall #'s doubled and through the second quarter they had recalled more then what they sold.
My point being is not to bash Toyota, they make a fine car. But when you start running with the big dogs there will be more problems and quality will suffer.
What's interesting though in those stories about Toyota's quality control problems is that "these reports have alarmed Toyota executives AND ANGERED THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT" (my caps inserted).
Now honestly, can you imagine the US government getting mad at Chrysler or Ford or Chevy for bad marks on consumer surveys and Big Three executives making a slight bow to the president and offering an apology?
My point, or opinion I mean, is that Japan, and Toyota, still has the corporate culture to CHANGE and improve, but American automakers apparently don't....given that they've had 40 years to try already.
So yes, every company has the potential to slip but no, not every company has the resources at hand to change.
As a percentage of ACTUAL PURCHASE PRICE when NEW , the Toyota or Honda probably retain no more.
I learned that Toyota retained value is NOT very high when I tried to trade off my 2006 Sienna and was told by the Toyota used car manager it was worth only $19,000 when it had less than 3,000 miles on it and was still in mint condition. :sick:
Oh well the dealer always tries to steal the car. You should check with Edmunds True Market Value and I think you'll be shocked how much the dealer low-balled you. They of course will clean the car up, perhaps certify it, and make thousands more on it. Trading in a new-new car to a dealer is suicide IMO.
I've had a different experience. I'm going to sell my 2006 Scion xA for $11,500 with 30K on it, and I paid $12,500 in Nov. 2005. I think that's outstanding...of course my out the door price with T&L was higher, but still.....and the buyer of my car sold their 1995 Corolla for $4,600!!
IF they are having "major" problems (the same is said about Honda, etc.) is still somewhat debatable. I completely agree with Mr. Shiftright's comment: "So yes, every company has the potential to slip but no, not every company has the resources at hand to change."
Yes, do not trade it to a stealer, oops, I mean dealer. Toyota resale value is great! My experience has proven this time and time again.
Back to the topic, I think the warranty will help Chrysler. They have had some problems in the past, but it looks like things are getting better for them, and this will certainly help people who may have had doubts about buying one.
Oh c'mon. You know better than that! As if WE stockholders have the power to get our transmission swept off the street and put back in the car by voting? I think the "free market" is not the type of remedy I want to trust when my brakes are failing. That is WAY too longterm a solution for my problems. So I kill the company that is killing me by divesting? Seems a bit...well...counter-productive to both parties.
Anyway, I think the consumer is already doing what you suggest the stockholder do...but voting with their checkbooks, not on a proxy ballot.
There is only one way to get any major corporation to do the right thing, be it foreign or domestic, be it cars or blenders or your TV set. Hit them in their wallets, hard fast and often.
This can be expressed effectively in the new car showroom.
While a high number of recalled cars obviously is not good, it's not necessarily all bad as it may at least indicate the manufacturer is trying to fix problems correctly.
I have an '06 Mustang GT that was built in 5/06 after Ford issued a TSB on their fuel pumps. The problem was that the cars would hesitate after sustained highway driving. Mine was built after the problem surfaced and a TSB was issued.
Did Ford put a revised fuel in my car? Nope - it was built with a known problem as I found out one day after exiting the freeway and trying to pull out into heavy traffic when the car bogged and I came close to being broadsided.
IMHO, this is a safety issue for which a TSB is insufficient. But it's one less recall for Ford.
Yeah the resale value is stupid. Makes you want to blow your brains out when you look at used ones.
In a few years I would like to find a 2005 MINI Cooper S with the factory LSD and no sunroof to make into a rally car.
That might be impossible to do for a reasonable amount of money so if I can't find one I will get a 2003 or 2004 without a sunroof and then have a quaife LSD put in.
I would still like to know if it is a good idea for those of us who have the opportunity to purchase the Lifetime Powertrain warranty for $750 ($100 deductible for each visit) or $ 900 (no deductible) to do so, especially if we keep our vehicles for only three of four years and put on less than 100,000 miles.
tguild, I will cut and paste my response to the same question a guy asked 2 or 3 pages back.
Why don't you compare the cost of buying a 4 yr 75K mile bumper to bumper (bad terminology but I don't know what Chrysler calls there best warranty) warranty. No reason to pay for time you know your not going to use and you may be able to get complete coverage for the same cost for the time you will actually have the truck.
It's funny. Not long ago, you were crowing about your sienna and now you don't seem to like it?
I'm the guy who has to deal with Chrysler trade-ins. I'm the person who has to explain to customers that they are NOT sought after as used cars by ANYONE.
For that reason, they can be a lot of car for the money if you can find a good USED one!
I haven't mocked the warranty. I just think it's desperate act and I don't think it'll stick around long. We shall see, I suppose?
I am very satisfied with the Sienna gas mileage (that is slightly better than my T&C got) and the LARGEST cargo space of any minivan but I have NEVER been satisfied with the HVAC, stereo, and controls for these items.
The Chrysler had more complete controls for both HVAC and stereo AND separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger. I was happy to see Honda add the better HVAC to all Odysseys but the LX in 2005 and I have always written that the Odyssey has THE most comfortable seats of all minivans.
Sadly, I was lied to by the Honda dealership when I asked for the salesman who sold my nephew the 2005 Ody EX when I was told he was no longer at the dealership. He later told my nephew that he has heard from more than one person that customers have been told he no longer works there. I would probably be driving a 2006 Ody EX instead of my 06 Sienna LE if I had originally met the Honda salesman who sold my nephew the 05 Ody and 07 Accord. :shades:
WHY would salesmen LIE to customers when they ask for a specific salesman? :confuse:
I agree regarding the "comfort," or lack thereof, of the Stow n' Go seats - not comparable in any way to the comfort of the thick, and deeply padded, seats in our 1994 Grand Caravan ES. Although we had trivial problems with our Grand Caravan (Infinity radio's fluorescent display died, rear vent wing motors died, and other minor things), the van was the most mechanically reliable vehicle we've ever owned, and that includes a history with Honda and Toyota vehicles. When we sold it at 162K miles, the 3.3L V6 was still delivering 26MPG on the highway, using no oil, and the 4-speed ECT automatic was original. I don't think there are a majority of Ody owners who can make a similar statement, especially regarding the transmission. Oh, and no timing belt replacement either, as the 3.3L OHV uses a timing chain, of course. Heck, even the exhaust system was still in fine shape after 12 years.
I don't think you want to compare transmission problems between Chrysler Vans and Odysseys. Odysseys had some problems that got overblown in forums such as this one.
With Chryslers, people expected transmission problems. Hondas are expected to be perfect and when Honda stumbles people are up in arms.
You had good luck with your Chrysler as a lot of other people do.
I don't understand the big deal over a timing belt. Timing chains wear out too. So you replace the T-belt every 105,000 miles?
Odyssey transmission problems weren't "overblown" to those, like myself, who were affected. The one in my '99 failed twice in 71K.
That said, Honda stepped up to the plate and covered the problem when the vehicle was out of warranty.
And earned at least one customer's loyalty.
IMHO, the one critical thing that American car manufacturers fail to understand is that they must exceed customer expectations. Instead, they seem content to only lower them.
Why's that? You think ccccompson was hot rodding in his Odyssey?
I came close to buying the Odyssey in 04'. Didn't care much for the exterior or interior styling. The ride and handling didn't seem to match up with the stellar reputation either. I decided to go for more power, performance and style in the Mazda MPV. :shades:
That said, I think the 05' and up models are much nicer. Honda seems to have corrected the transmission problems.(chiming out)
LOL, it made me wonder too! The first one went at 40K and was fixed free of charge before Honda officially extended the warranty on them at a time when others were reporting that they either paid for it all out of pocket or split the cost with Honda.
The second failure happened right when it was being traded on an '04 Pilot and the dealer just billed Honda for the repair. The salesman said the damned thing just wasn't beefy enough to pull the weight of the Odyssey.
90% of the miles on that '99 were driven by my wife. While not known for a light foot, she didn't hot-rod it!
Of the 60 plus cars I've owned the only other transmission failures were a pair of '70s GM products with lots of miles on them.
Not a powertrain problem, but this VERY COSTLY to repair MAJOR defect with the Sienna power sliding door does not exist on any Chrysler minivan. :shades:
Yeah okay but did you notice that the complainant says that this "defect" normally occurs "outside the warranty period"?
How can a part breaking at 100K be a "defect"? I'm sorry but I gotta slap my head when I hear this kind of thing.
You know, we have to look at the idea of "lifetime warranty" with a bit of sobriety.
It's like the _______ Muffler Company's "lifetime guarantee".
Yeah, so? What it says is: "If you buy our lousy cheap muffler and it rusts through or falls off, just come in and we will give you another lousy, cheap muffler until you get tired of coming in or sell the car".
I am NOT implying that Chryslers are per se lousy or cheap---what I'm saying is this:
Putting a lifetime warranty on a product does not improve it one little bit. It's still what it is when you buy it.
Me? I don't want a lifetime warranty first and a good car second. I want a GOOD car first.
The very reason they offer a lifetime warranty is the reason I would NOT buy that brand.
Try to collect on it when the vehicle has 170k on it. I am sure there is a clause which states the monetary expense cannot exceed the value of the car. Which for a Chrysler product can be 5 years Thereafter they won't cover a new engine,
It would be great to get a copy of the ENTIRE warranty, with fine print, to see what's what here. Right now, we are sort of reviewing a movie we've only seen the trailer for (not that that doesn't work sometimes) :P
I followed the link and scrolled down the left side to Toyota Fans Forums and also Siennaclub.org Forums and read where 2004 Siennas were having the very expensive power sliding door problem in early 2005 with fairly low mileage. :shades:
I agree that Toyota has had a better reputation for reliability than Chrysler. However, Chrysler does not have a monopoly on iffy reliability. My nephew's wife had automatic transmission failure on a Honda Accord when it was a few years old. She had purchased the Accord NEW.
I understand but this really isn't a big issue. ALL cars have known defects. BMW convertible tops were known to jam. Porsche Boxster convertible top windows broke frequently. This doesn't hurt the car's reputation because it is a)infrequent and b) if not infrequent, doesn't disable the car.
Even SERIOUS known defects don't seem to hurt a car's reputation, because again they might be isolated to a small fractional percentag, and then soon enough corrected the next year. I'm thinking of things like Porsche 996 rear main seal leaks.
Where defects DO hurt a company's reputation is when the defect is running rampant for one thing, and is NOT corrected in a reasonable amount of time.
GM V-6 intake manifolds corroding, comes to mind. The notorious VW ignition coil fiasco is another.
So you see the difference? A jammng door isn't going to bring a company down but a decade of frequent and varied defects will. That's why Toyota is #1 and Chrysler and VW aren't IMO.
Mr ShiftThat's why Toyota is #1 and Chrysler and VW aren't IMO
VW is #1 in Europe. Chrysler is not #1 in anything!
Think of the warranty costs if customers purchased the lowest cost Caliber and kept them for a "lifetime".
It is almost tempting to buy a Caliber to drive my commute except eventually I'd get so irritated at the non-powertrain failures I'd get rid of the darn thing anyway.
Comments
IF Toyota or Honda had offered a Lifetime Powertrain Warranty, the same people who mock Chrysler would be writing praises of Toyota or Honda.
My daughter's 1999 GC SE has over 101,000 miles and has NEVER needed a repair. My sister had zero problems with a 1986 Caravan that had 170,000 miles before it was sold to their friend.
I mean, I UNDERSTAND why Chrysler is doing this, I just don't think it's going to do them any good---or should I say, not enough good to justify the expense or the embarrassment of having to withdraw the offer later on.
I could see Lexus possibly extending warranty since the competition on the very high luxury end is pretty vicious.
RE: not needing repairs: Could be sis is the luckiest woman alive, right? I mean, people fall off buildings and land on a mattress truck--that doesn't make it normal
If you haven't noticed, Toyota's image, in terms of quality and reliability, isn't flying quite so high these days.(link)
All I'm saying is that I think whatever Toyota's reputation, Chrysler's is worse in the public eye at the moment. Having a wart or two isn't the same as internal injuries.
http://www.financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070820/REG/70817026/10- 36
could make that lifetime warranty kind of risky for chrysler.
Thats when the decline starts. I have said this before here. Toyota is heading down the same road Ford went. On top of the world thinking you are 10 foot tall and bullet proof and then you wake up one morning and your market share has dropped 15%.
All the signs are there, so far this year they have recalled more then sold and have very quietly gone through a sludge problem.
I am not knocking Toyota, just saying that what it takes to be #1 can be the down fall of your product
Wasn't it GM who was #1 for many years?
Toyota is having problems because recent Toyota buyers who owned another brand have learned by personal experience that Toyota vehicles are NOT better than other brands. I will NOT be a repeat Toyota buyer even though I like the dealership and the salesman who sold me the Sienna. I think the Odyssey is a better product than the Sienna.
Not #1 in Truck in the past few decades, it is for the past few decades.
But that was not the point. The point is if Toyota is not careful they will continue down the same road the domestics went.
I'm not referring to "initial quality" surveys, which are pretty meaningless if the car falls apart in 2 years.
And how do we explain the substantial resale value of a Toyota vis a vis an older Chevy Ford or Chrysler?
Now in the case of Mercedes, people were saying some years ago "they aren't the car they used to be" and the data backed that up. But it's not backing up any claims about Toyota.
And least not yet....
Maybe in the past but now with a simple google search you see they are really no better off then any of there competitors.
From 04-06 there recall #'s doubled and through the second quarter they had recalled more then what they sold.
My point being is not to bash Toyota, they make a fine car. But when you start running with the big dogs there will be more problems and quality will suffer.
What's interesting though in those stories about Toyota's quality control problems is that "these reports have alarmed Toyota executives AND ANGERED THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT" (my caps inserted).
Now honestly, can you imagine the US government getting mad at Chrysler or Ford or Chevy for bad marks on consumer surveys and Big Three executives making a slight bow to the president and offering an apology?
My point, or opinion I mean, is that Japan, and Toyota, still has the corporate culture to CHANGE and improve, but American automakers apparently don't....given that they've had 40 years to try already.
So yes, every company has the potential to slip but no, not every company has the resources at hand to change.
I learned that Toyota retained value is NOT very high when I tried to trade off my 2006 Sienna and was told by the Toyota used car manager it was worth only $19,000 when it had less than 3,000 miles on it and was still in mint condition. :sick:
I've had a different experience. I'm going to sell my 2006 Scion xA for $11,500 with 30K on it, and I paid $12,500 in Nov. 2005. I think that's outstanding...of course my out the door price with T&L was higher, but still.....and the buyer of my car sold their 1995 Corolla for $4,600!!
I hope you didn't trade that Sienna in
Back to the topic, I think the warranty will help Chrysler. They have had some problems in the past, but it looks like things are getting better for them, and this will certainly help people who may have had doubts about buying one.
No, but they have a more formidable force to contend with - the shareholders.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Re: The Sienna tell me what trim level you got, the color, etc and I will tell you what it is really worth.
If I can't someone at RWTIV can
Anyway, I think the consumer is already doing what you suggest the stockholder do...but voting with their checkbooks, not on a proxy ballot.
There is only one way to get any major corporation to do the right thing, be it foreign or domestic, be it cars or blenders or your TV set. Hit them in their wallets, hard fast and often.
This can be expressed effectively in the new car showroom.
I'm looking at a 2003 Mini Cooper S, black on black, 15,000 miles, custom wheels, premium package. Pedal to the metal. Fear no man!
You wanna talk RESALE VALUE? Geez, Minis are strong, strong, strong!
I have an '06 Mustang GT that was built in 5/06 after Ford issued a TSB on their fuel pumps.
The problem was that the cars would hesitate after sustained highway driving. Mine was built after the problem surfaced and a TSB was issued.
Did Ford put a revised fuel in my car? Nope - it was built with a known problem as I found out one day after exiting the freeway and trying to pull out into heavy traffic when the car bogged and I came close to being broadsided.
IMHO, this is a safety issue for which a TSB is insufficient. But it's one less recall for Ford.
In a few years I would like to find a 2005 MINI Cooper S with the factory LSD and no sunroof to make into a rally car.
That might be impossible to do for a reasonable amount of money so if I can't find one I will get a 2003 or 2004 without a sunroof and then have a quaife LSD put in.
And this WITHOUT a warranty.
Of course, MINI is a specialty car and can't be compared to bread and butter cars from the Big Three.
Why don't you compare the cost of buying a 4 yr 75K mile bumper to bumper (bad terminology but I don't know what Chrysler calls there best warranty) warranty. No reason to pay for time you know your not going to use and you may be able to get complete coverage for the same cost for the time you will actually have the truck.
I'm the guy who has to deal with Chrysler trade-ins. I'm the person who has to explain to customers that they are NOT sought after as used cars by ANYONE.
For that reason, they can be a lot of car for the money if you can find a good USED one!
I haven't mocked the warranty. I just think it's desperate act and I don't think it'll stick around long. We shall see, I suppose?
The Chrysler had more complete controls for both HVAC and stereo AND separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger. I was happy to see Honda add the better HVAC to all Odysseys but the LX in 2005 and I have always written that the Odyssey has THE most comfortable seats of all minivans.
Sadly, I was lied to by the Honda dealership when I asked for the salesman who sold my nephew the 2005 Ody EX when I was told he was no longer at the dealership. He later told my nephew that he has heard from more than one person that customers have been told he no longer works there. I would probably be driving a 2006 Ody EX instead of my 06 Sienna LE if I had originally met the Honda salesman who sold my nephew the 05 Ody and 07 Accord. :shades:
WHY would salesmen LIE to customers when they ask for a specific salesman? :confuse:
Or maybe it's one of those places that has so much turnover the sales staff doesn't get a chance to know each other.
I'm serious.
Agree with you about the seats. My preference was a Sienna but the damned seat cushion simply wasn't long enough so I ended up with an Odyssey.
With Chryslers, people expected transmission problems. Hondas are expected to be perfect and when Honda stumbles people are up in arms.
You had good luck with your Chrysler as a lot of other people do.
I don't understand the big deal over a timing belt. Timing chains wear out too. So you replace the T-belt every 105,000 miles?
That said, Honda stepped up to the plate and covered the problem when the vehicle was out of warranty.
And earned at least one customer's loyalty.
IMHO, the one critical thing that American car manufacturers fail to understand is that they must exceed customer expectations. Instead, they seem content to only lower them.
Two in 71K? This makes me wonder. As a 16 year old, I managed to tear the transmission out of my parent's Buick!
Why's that? You think ccccompson was hot rodding in his Odyssey?
I came close to buying the Odyssey in 04'. Didn't care much for the exterior or interior styling. The ride and handling didn't seem to match up with the stellar reputation either. I decided to go for more power, performance and style in the Mazda MPV. :shades:
That said, I think the 05' and up models are much nicer. Honda seems to have corrected the transmission problems.(chiming out)
The second failure happened right when it was being traded on an '04 Pilot and the dealer just billed Honda for the repair. The salesman said the damned thing just wasn't beefy enough to pull the weight of the Odyssey.
90% of the miles on that '99 were driven by my wife. While not known for a light foot, she didn't hot-rod it!
Of the 60 plus cars I've owned the only other transmission failures were a pair of '70s GM products with lots of miles on them.
Could it be because (a)they can be expensive to replace and (b) their failure can be VERY costly?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That has GOT to be good on a transmission!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Not a powertrain problem, but this VERY COSTLY to repair MAJOR defect with the Sienna power sliding door does not exist on any Chrysler minivan. :shades:
How can a part breaking at 100K be a "defect"? I'm sorry but I gotta slap my head when I hear this kind of thing.
You know, we have to look at the idea of "lifetime warranty" with a bit of sobriety.
It's like the _______ Muffler Company's "lifetime guarantee".
Yeah, so? What it says is: "If you buy our lousy cheap muffler and it rusts through or falls off, just come in and we will give you another lousy, cheap muffler until you get tired of coming in or sell the car".
I am NOT implying that Chryslers are per se lousy or cheap---what I'm saying is this:
Putting a lifetime warranty on a product does not improve it one little bit. It's still what it is when you buy it.
Me? I don't want a lifetime warranty first and a good car second. I want a GOOD car first.
Try to collect on it when the vehicle has 170k on it. I am sure there is a clause which states the monetary expense cannot exceed the value of the car. Which for a Chrysler product can be 5 years Thereafter they won't cover a new engine,
In other words, the car limps in with 170,000 miles and the engine is just worn out. Nothing "broke" but the rings are shot, it needs a rebuild etc.
Is THAT covered?
I agree that Toyota has had a better reputation for reliability than Chrysler. However, Chrysler does not have a monopoly on iffy reliability. My nephew's wife had automatic transmission failure on a Honda Accord when it was a few years old. She had purchased the Accord NEW.
Even SERIOUS known defects don't seem to hurt a car's reputation, because again they might be isolated to a small fractional percentag, and then soon enough corrected the next year. I'm thinking of things like Porsche 996 rear main seal leaks.
Where defects DO hurt a company's reputation is when the defect is running rampant for one thing, and is NOT corrected in a reasonable amount of time.
GM V-6 intake manifolds corroding, comes to mind. The notorious VW ignition coil fiasco is another.
So you see the difference? A jammng door isn't going to bring a company down but a decade of frequent and varied defects will. That's why Toyota is #1 and Chrysler and VW aren't IMO.
VW is #1 in Europe. Chrysler is not #1 in anything!
Think of the warranty costs if customers purchased the lowest cost Caliber and kept them for a "lifetime".
It is almost tempting to buy a Caliber to drive my commute except eventually I'd get so irritated at the non-powertrain failures I'd get rid of the darn thing anyway.