Subaru Crew - Meet The Members

texsubaru

I went with the Forester mainly for the styling (I had a preference for the SUV look over the Outback's more obvious station wagon look) and the acceleration (because the Forester is lighter, I found that it felt notably better for things like speeding up to merge into highway traffic).
But on the other side, the Outback has better back seat room (which, to me, is likely the Forester's weakest point; it's pretty lacking in back seat leg room) and, I think the Outback has better cargo space for longer items, so long as you don't need to haul something tall (the Forester arguably has the better space for tall, awkward cargo).

mikef11

One thing that isn't discussed often in the Forester vs Outback debate is the design of the chasis. The Forester was designed based on the older Imprezza platform, the Outback has a brand new design. I would expect the Outback to be stiffer, stronger and maybe safer.
I think you'll be happy with either choice.

MikeF

fvkllr

Found this on the Subaru.com web site, and thought I should share. I for one did not know to do this.

"If your vehicle is AWD (All-Wheel Drive) with an automatic
transmission and the temporary spare tire has been installed, put a
spare fuse (15 amp) inside the FWD (Front-Wheel Drive) fuse holder
(refer to your owner's manual for location). Confirm that the
Front-Wheel Drive (FWD) warning light comes on before you drive
the car. Installation of this fuse deactivates AWD to prevent possible
damage to the drivetrain components that can result due to the use
of the smaller temporary spare tire. After re-installing the
conventional tire, remove the fuse from the FWD fuse holder to
restore AWD operation."

locke2c

Yep, that's in the owner's manual too. ;-)

-Colin

royallen

Eugene: I'm very surprised because this is NOT in my '95 Legacy owners manual. I also don't see the problem. My spare is 3.5% smaller, a difference in axle rotation speed well within the systems capability. After all, in a U turn the inside axles turn about 30% slower(30% smaller circle) and the rear axles turn 14% slower(14% smaller circle) than the front. Not only that, if I were to get on an upward sloping driveway with both tires on one side on ice, those tires and axles can turn (if the tires slip) while the other side axles are still or even turn the opposite direction, as can any vehicle with open differentials. It is made to work that way and off roaders often choose limited slip or more often, locking differentials to increase traction. I'll take a look at the web site.

lucien2

Forester more agile and faster than an Outback.....see ya at the track, friends.

Oh that's right, I keep forgetting we are talking about the heavier '00 OB. And I keep reminding myself why I love my Phase I DOHC mill....

At the time I was going to buy a forester (and must remind the court that we might still), but I play upright bass and it just wouldn't go in. too long. So, outback it was.

c_hunter

Did anyone see the Forester review in Sunday's Washington Post (front page of section N). It is one of the most favorable reviews I've seen -- the guy (Warren Brown) really loved the car.

I imagine it's online somewhere -- definitely worth a read.

Craig

amishra

your upright bass .. jeez that's one big instrument!

c_hunter

Crew, I posted some Soob pictures from my recent road trip out to the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia. Here's a sample:




The rest of the images are located at:

http://homepage.mac.com/craig_hunter/shenandoah/

This is the same area where the upcoming SCOA Fall Foliage Tour will be taking place, and I highly recommend it this time of the year. In addition to the breathtaking scenery in the Shenandoah National Forest (leaves are just starting to turn), there are many wineries and apple orchards around Charlottesville that make for great auto touring. Plenty of other things to do too, like hiking and sight-seeing. If you don't mind spending a little extra dough, the Boar's Head Inn is a really nice place to stay, but there are many nice hotels, B&Bs, and Inns in the Charlottesville area.

Needless to say, my 2000 OB/5-spd performed great -- plenty of power in the mountains, and an awesome highway cruiser. We scored 26mpg over about 600 miles, which is good considering the terrain and varied driving conditions. I was really surprised how the OB handled on the all the curvy back roads with aplomb -- it was a blast to drive. I did some minor off-roading in a pick-your-own apple orchard (who needs tractors for a hay ride?) and the OB was great there too. First gear had enough grunt in the steep sections, and kept me under 10mph on the downhills.

Overall, the OB proved to be a comfortable go-anywhere do-anything vacation wagon -- just load it up and go. I was very impressed to see this side of the Outback -- it really allows you to just get out there and do it all, while also enhancing the driving experience. Great car!

Craig

paisan

All I know is that the 3 hyundai owners I know (a small sample albeit) 2 Excels went over 100,000 miles w/o a major repair @ $6K each. And a sonata is going over 100,000 @ $13K or $14K w/o any major repairs. The $/mile is extremely high. They aren't luxurious or AWD, but for a city beater car, you can't really knock em.

-mike

lark6

...Foxboro to be exact. Up here for business this week, and I wish I had my slinky muumuu - I mean, Forester, or some kind of Soob. I asked for an Outback from Hertz, and ended up with a Taurus wagon. What a pig - it wallows like my mom's (and my) old Buick LeSabre. Fortunately the client's office is about 1/2 mile from my hotel and I can walk to and fro.

Forester did yeoman duty this weekend. Hauled 7 5-gallon buckets of driveway sealer, crack fill, brushes, blacktop patch from the Home Despot in the AM, strapped the kayak on top and went for a 7-mile paddle down the Delaware in the PM. I even stopped at Washington Crossing, paddled over to the PA shore and crossed over to the NJ side just like the father of our country. The Forester stayed on shore.

Patti - good luck with house stuff. I will email you later about the resolution of case #264427 (whell bearings et seq.).

Ed

miksmi

Craig, great trip report and photos! Hopefully you've whetted the appetite of fence-sitters for the SCOA Fall Foliage Tour.

Drew, Good attention to detail in that Mistu article! Given that Mitsu and Subaru paid paltry fines, I guess the Japanese government considers the infractions minor. I consider "secretly repaired", without the details, to be sensational journalism. I wonder what really happened. Good find. Now go dig up the facts

..Mike

ateixeira

Lark: I love it - "fortunately" you can walk! LOL!

What, no Forester river crossing?

-juice

PS Pardon my ignorance, but anyone want to elaborate on the slinky muu muu humor? Was it before my time? Inside joke? I don't get it...

stevek

Yesterday I took delivery of my 2001 Legacy GT Limited sedan. Anything I should do/look for??
Thank you
Steve

miksmi

Drive it, it's a hoot! Seriously, the only issue with our 00 GT wagon 5MT was a minor alignment problem (pulled to the left on most roads) that the dealer corrected. Also check the tire pressure, as they are shipped over-inflated. Not that we had problems, but I'd check the operation of all lights (dash, stereo), AC, heater, and seat belt latches. WDB also has a GT sedan and might have other suggestions. (and we all know juice will others, if he hasn't already beat me to the punch

Time to update your profile (5MT or 4EAT, color if you want, etc.)! Welcome aboard!

..Mike

ateixeira

Congrats, Steve.

The pre-delivery inspection is important, but I guess we're a day late.

Still, take a very close look all around the car in bright sunlight. Walk around several times, checking panel gaps, and paint texture and gloss. Look for dings, orange peel finish, and scratches.

Then hop in and check inside panel gaps. Try all the gizmos (you have plenty), and inspect the window and door seals. Get comfortable in the seat, and adjust all the mirrors.

I'm sure you've driven it, but take it out and turn off the radio and close all the window. Listen for any errant squeeks, rattles, or wind noise.

Test the acceleration, observe the tranny shifts closely, and try out the brakes in a panic stop (make sure there's noone behind you first). They should stop straight, not weave to either side. Any pulsing you feel is normal - it's the ABS.

If you find anything even slightly out of whack, mention it to your dealer. My dad's Outback was almost perfect - the rear bumper had slight indentations from another license plate. The paint didn't chip so he didn't want the bumper repainted, but at least we were able to indentify it, and the dealer said he'd repaint the bumper if it ever became any worse.

-juice

Katmandu

I mean 1983!!!!!!!! What a deal for a '93!!!!!

ateixeira

I was gonna say, I'd have given you at least $30 even with the exhaust!

Given the pounding through the weeds and trees, and the trails you tend to take, you may want to consider a Forester.

You'll get a bit more ground clearance, and less weight getting tossed around on those bumpy trials. It's also more narrow to squeeze between the brush with fewer scratches.

I'm not sure I'd want to pound a freshly painted Soob on those trails, but at least the Forester L has plastic cladding all around to resist scratches.

Get the fender flares, side step bars, and the rear differential protector on your basic L model.

Just my 2 cents'.

-juice

dsackman

Eugene,

Yes, you are right. There is a fuse required to change the Legacy based cars from AWD to FWD when the spare is fitted. This is not needed for the Forester, as the Forester has a FULL SIZE SPARE. The FWD after a flat in the OB defeats the whole idea behind having AWD.
Imagine the following scenario: I go skiing at Tahoe for the weekend. There is a storm and chains are required. I laugh at the poor sods fitting chains as I pass them. I get a flat. What now? Not only do I not have AWD, I also do not have chains, and I am stuck in the stormy mountains late on a Sunday night!

PLEASE SUBARU, give us a full size spare for the Outback Sedan and Wagon.

Thanks,

Daniel

carltom

Hi,

First time poster and I need advice. I am very interested in a '98 Forester S. It has 26k miles on it. I ran a carfax full history check and it came up clean. The dealer will put in a CD player and moonroof, albeit not the huge 2001 moonroof, for $17995. This semms like a good deal, but I would like opinions?

Thanks,

Tom

ateixeira

Since both options are new, a power moonroof is worth about a grand, and the CD player is $250 at wholesale, so let's say the asking price is $16750 for the Forester.

Sounds like a deal to me. They ran anywhere from $22 to $25k in the first year.

Edmunds lists the value at $16,790 plus options and a mileage credit (yours is low mileage for its age).

-juice

proulo

For about $1000 more you can get a 2001 Forester L which comes with a better engine and you have their warranty.

Phil

ateixeira

The '98s carry a 5/60 powertrain warranty, so you'll have the remainder. The S also has more equipment, so you may not consider the alternative an "equivalent".

Consider both, though.

-juice

p0926

carltom- Need some more info in order to decide if 18k is a good deal. What other options does the Forester have (auto trans, etc)? Is the dealer going to install a power or pop-up moonroof? Use Edmunds and KBB to come up with an estimated price after adjusting for the above factors.

As Juice mentioned, Edmunds lists the retail price as $16,790. If the car's in "excellent" condition and if the value of the options add up to over $1200, then 18k is a good deal. Otherwise, I'd use it as a begining negotiating point. However, used car values vary significantly from region to region so you may not be able to talk'em down any. But I'd certainly try! :-)

-Frank (middle name McLeod) P.

carltom

Juice, Phil,Frank, thanks for your responses. Phil, I thought about the "L" but I wanted a moonroof and I like the "s" looks a bit better. BTW, The moonroof is power and it has automatic trans. Power window, seats, A/C. ETC.

Thanks Again,
Tom

lark6

>Lark: I love it - "fortunately" you can walk!
>LOL!

Yeah, handling really stinks - worse than the loaner Sable sedan I had when getting the wheel bearing repair. It's 82 degrees here at 1:00 pm - amazing for New England in early October. I hope it cools a bit before 5:30 - I can stand the exercise.

>What, no Forester river crossing?

It's about 4 feet deep at that crossing. I'd have to have a Safari Rally-like snorkel (NOT "snorkus") to ford that stream. Speaking of which, can ANYBODY get us more pix of that rally Forester parked next to Richard Burns' WRC Impreza at the Paris show? My curiosity is piqued!

>PS Pardon my ignorance, but anyone want to
>elaborate on the slinky muu muu humor? Was it
>before my time? Inside joke? I don't get it...

Can't remember where I saw it (Wagons or SUVs forums), but someone mentioned that a Jeep Wrangler-driving friend dismissed the Forester as ugly. The poster went on to say that good looking SUV was sort of an oxymoron, like slinky muumuu. At least that's how it came off to me. If I find the reference later I'll post it.

Ed

ateixeira

Tom: price sounds even better for an S auto.

I should measure how high off the ground my intake is. A few feet of water may be helpful in removing all the leftover sand from the beach! (yes, still)

I'd like to see that Forester up close too! Anyone?

I remember the context, but I still don't understand the significance of the phrase. I'm thinking slinky as in the toy, muumuu as in the noise a cow makes? Am I nuts?

Don't answer that last one! %*}

-juice

lark6

Slinky - not the toy, but like a silk or satin garment - slides easily over the skin.

Muumuu - a large, shapeless grament worn loosely by large, shapeless people.

I can't think of any sensitive, PC way of elaborating. Can someone please help?

Ed

aling

I think you've probably written it as PC as possible already! :-) Some may beg to differ though ;-0

Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference

miksmi

Hehe, Ed, great muumuu definition. I'll seek guidance from you the next time I need a word defined. large, shapeless.. hehehe.

juice, Per nvy's suggestion, install GuruNet and you'll have definitions at your fingertip (well, Alt-left mouse button).

..Mike

jeno2

The term SLINKY does not mean SILKY rather, skimpy or revealing. Hence the joke.. since a mumu covers everything... get it?

silly boys...

ateixeira

Thanks for the lesson, folks.

We were discussing vanity plates over in the Wagons topics, but I'll ask the folks here. Any creative suggestions?

So far I like GR8AWD or SNOPRBM. Any thoughts?

I have Friday and Monday off. Too much time on my hands, I guess!

-juice

ateixeira

Forgot one of my favorites - PLEZSNO!

-juice

lark6

...I stand corrected. Maybe I was thinking slinky as in somthing that you can slink around in, slinking being moving without making much noise. Either way, the slinky muumuu oxymoron works - sexy or revealing big, shapeless tent-like garment. The original point (I think?) was that SUVs used to be more utilitarian or industrial in appearance, whereas now styling is taking on ever greater importance.

Ed

abhidharma

"Gosh darn, that Aztek sure ought to be wearing a muumuu."

as opposed to:

"Gee willickers, that's some sexy, slinky Subaru."

ateixeira

Nooo...keep them boxy. The utility of a square shape is incredible!

Look at the new Outback. It's TOO good looking. I'm serious! The aggressive angle on the rear hatch looks sporty, but you can't fit a tall box or two large dogs in there!

Let the sedans and coupes lead in style, while the wagons pay the bills.

-juice

ateixeira

Nothing like an example...

-juice

docdoowop

What's the North American intro date? Couple of
interesting pics here: http://www.subaru.net/

originalbitman

5,500 miles and currently in Panama City Beach, FL. Had to bail out on the New England excursion as we are now into the 5th week and need to start heading back west.

Mileage has dropped to 25-28mpg. Still pretty good considering we are now in states with fewer open roads and spending more time in urban areas. My earlier best of 31mpg was coming out of Colorado and through Kansas which is pretty much downhill.

Sticking to the 2 lane other than some city stuff. Excellent trip so far. Loved the southeastern side of the Smokies. Been camping most of the time other than the occasional motel and a week with relatives in Wisconsin and a few days here. For anyone considering a road trip I highly recommend 2 lane vs interstate if you have the time. Lots to see, great little towns, people to meet and no traffic. The way to see America!

The 00 GT wagon has been superb. What a great road car... just can't say enough about it. Fun car on mountain roads and a real cruiser on the open stretches. 5 speed adds to the fun as well as the performance. Taken a few hard hits to the windshield from stones but the glass is barley chipped... wonder if that extreme windshield angle helps?

Spending so much time in this car has had my wife Vicki and I often commenting about the following:
Seats are very comfortable.
Great visibility.
Love the dual moonroofs... use them all the time.
Glad we did window tint on all windows.
All doors close so easily... barely a touch.
Plenty of room in cargo area.
Handling is terrific.
We have zero complaints.

Finally got to change my own oil today at the inlaws. What a relief after that sad dealer experience in Appleton, WI (overfill). It kept me checking oil all the way to Florida as i just didn't trust what they had done. Dipstick on the Soob is a little hard to get a good reading unless on perfectly flat surface and engine is cold. Checking hot in service station can give mixed results and got me worried as I added oil when I probably didn't need to (worried dealer drained too much after overfill... or worse!) Anyway, back to knowing exactly what is in the crankcase now.

Heading up through Miss tomorrow and then back to New Mexico, Colorado and southern Utah again for more camping.

Till next time,

Bit

rsholland

Bad News:
Wife's terminally ill '91 Explorer on death bed. Family decided it is too costly to revive. R.I.P.

GREAT News!
Put a deposit on new '01 white Forester S Premium today, at Fitzgerald's. It's an automatic, has wheel flares, spoiler, auto/dim mirror, cargo cover and security upgrade. Should pick it up Friday. It's our second Sube.

Bad news.
Wife and daughter leave Saturday (with new Forester) to visit colleges in North Carolina. Won't be back till late Tuesday. RATS!! I want to drive it!

Interestingly, my wife also saw a new Mazda Tribute -- and thought it was too big! Go figure.

Bob -- a.k.a Suba-duo

ateixeira

Bit: sounds like a fun trip! Take photos to share later!

31mpg in a GT? Wow.

Bob: congrats, man. I know you looked long and hard.

Hope the Forester can pull your trailer nicely. That auto and the extra torque on the Phase II ought to help. No hitch, though?

Nice color. The white with mostly back trim (including the flares) looks sweet.

Was that the Explorer you brought over? Or did you have two? It didn't look that old. I'm surprised.

Tribute too big - yeah, it's close the the current Explorer. Maybe it's tall so it seems bigger than it is. You wouldn't want to have to keep coming in for recalls anyway!

Way to go. Love to see repeat customers.

-juice

miksmi

Hehe, great subject, Bob. Congratulations are in order, woo-hoo! Will we see a white Forester on the Fall Foliage Tour on 23 October or the OBS?

Bit, thanks for taking the time to post from the road. Sounds you are having a great time.

..Mike

jeno2

I am 2 weeks into the intolerable 8 week wait for delivery on my new 2001 Forester S. tick.. tock.. tick.. tock... will this never end?

Since ordering I've read a few posts on window tinting. I didn't see it in any of the Subaru literature when I ordered.

Is that an after market thing? And if so, what are my options?

rsholland

Juice
We have (had) two Explorers, Mine's a '98, which is what you rode in. The wife had a '91 with close to 200K on it. We got our money's worth out of it. In recent years, the repair bills kept getting bigger and bigger. This last one, if we got it repaired would have been about $1000.00 That's hard to justify on a vehicle that old.

Mike
Fall Foliage Tour. Don't know yet. I really haven't been paying close attention to the specifics of that tour. My fault. Sorry. Could you fill me in as to the where, when, etc. Maybe I can convince the wife, Annie and the kids. Kids? Hell, they're 21 and 17 now! My, how time flys!

Bob

rsholland

Originally my wife thought the Forester was way too small, after having been used to driving an Explorer for 10 years. So... you would think that the Tribute would be the perfect size. Right? Wrong!

Women! Never been able to figure them out! And... I've been married over 30 years!

We also drove an Outback wagon and a Legacy GT Limited sedan. She also considered the Outback sedan too. She didn't like the low headroom of the sedans -- and she's only 5'3". She also didn't care for the two-tone treatment of the Outbacks. She liked the Outback wagon, (didn't like the power seat, and it didn't fit her bottom very well, or so she said) but really felt more at home with the smaller Forester. Oh well.

Bob

royallen

I visited the SOA web site and the instructions for disabling the AWD on AT when limited service spare is used. I sent an email regarding my '95 owners manual lacking this info. In reply, the recommendation is a change in operating instructions which I had not been sent as I was not on file as the vehicle owner.
Now I wonder if it would be better for the drive line to wire a switch from the dash to the AWD disable circuit and drive with the AWD off when on dry pavement, given the apparent stress on the system when axles turn at different rates in the many turns per day of city driving. What do the sages think?
On the other hand, I would not be too worried to use AWD with a slightly smaller tire in conditions requiring AWD such as ice, snow and sand. That is pretty analogous to the SUVs with locking diffys that are OK to engage off pavement but not on pavement. Again a switch to put it on when needed and off otherwise would be handy.

aling

That's what differentials are for! To cope with the axles spinning at different rates. There is no need for such a swtich; Subaru designed the AWD system for full-time use in mind.

WRT the spare tire + AWD issue, please read this Edmunds.com article. Note that they had a flat tire with the Outback Limited: http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/wardlaw/97Subaru.Legacy.Outback.Ltd.rt.html

Hope this helps!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference

royallen

Drew: I certainly agree with the logic of differential function. I'm also impressed that a top gun at SOA didn't think the limited service spare would cause a drive line problem - though it would be more convincing if he were an enginerd instead of a PR guy. Then there is a little nagging doubt from another SOA web site statement that it is somehow a bad thing for tire diameters to vary more than 1/2". This too must be balony....or? maybe there is this rubber band that gets tighter and tighter.

c_hunter

I have a hard time swallowing the 1/2" tolerance on tire diameters -- I would think 4 inflated and loaded tires would vary by at least 1/2" all around on a typical vehicle with varying passengers and differently distributed cargo loads. Are we supposed to adjust the tire pressure every time we load up luggage or drop off a passenger? And how do you define "diameter" on a deformed tire that is most certainly not round??

I am guessing that the guidline applies to the nominal tire diameter calculated from the rim size plus 2 x sidewall height. Maybe Subaru is really recommending that you stick to the same tires all around, with the proper inflation. Sounds like common sense to me, AWD or not.

Craig

lucien2

Congrats! MY wife's '91 explorer (124K and counting) is nearing the same fate. We looked at soobs yesterday. IF she settles on soob, it will be either forester or Outback. They had a 5-speed, basic OB on the lot for a good price. Still, we are a few months away from doing anything. BTW, what became of the '91? Trade-in? If so, what did they give you for it?