Juice,how many Chocolate Labradors can fit in the back of your car? My brother has two dogs and just moved to Anchorage with a five year old Montero. I predict he will be on the market for another car soon for all the trouble he's had w/the mits. Anyway, I'm so stoked about our OB that I am seriously thinking about the Forester as a second car (Have to sell 2 motorcycles first, however.) How much utility overlap do you think the two subes would have?
Sorry I don't have any pics of that last trip. Maybe next time.
By the way, congratulations on the new washing machine.. Chris
Well in exactly 4 months I have put on 9100 miles on my Trooper! the kicker is that I take the train and ferry to work everyday, so Zero of those are commuter miles... not to mention another 2000 on my XT6! Think I drive enough?
Escape humor (from Escape thread here at Edmunds):
>But, I think you will find the Escape >problems from the summer dwindling down now that >the summer assembly line help from St. Mary's >School for the Blind is back at school.
Aztek humor (from letter in C&D):
>"That huge tent cover for the rear of the Pontiac >Aztek is pretty nifty. Do they have one that can >be used to cover the front end,too?"
Finally, my first sighting of the Aztek with real plates (not test-driven from dealership)! The plate says "PAPNFUS", and the driver was a young woman. Attitude, attitude...
Okay, twenty push-ups done (with kids since they always distract me when I'm on line - it's an attention thing). Okay - tired now. Flight from Maine tough. Can't answer anymore 'cause I did my punishment. Is there anything else I can do for my friends at Edmunds today?
our female Border collie/Aussie Shep mix underwent surgery yesterday for a torn ligament. Today the vet says she is awake and doing o.k. Miss our dog though- won't be home until tomorrow. Everybody give yours a pat on the head.
Hey guys, I've e-mailed bonnie@edmunds.com about starting an Isuzu Owners section on here but to no avail. Do you guys have contacts for her? Thanks in advance.
From plain curiousity I went to Acura MDX party on 10/11/00. I was pleasantly surprised that it was a full-catered event, with hot food, wonderful snacks, etc. Food is my secret passion ;-).
I did not get to drive MDX. All three on the lot were sold already, and we could only sit in those not drive.
I was disappointed in exterior looks. Way too minivan-ish for my taste. The interior is nice, but not superb. Ebony (black) leather looks elegant, but may get too hot in CA climate. But another interior choice is Saddle (beige) color -- brrr! Looks like a certain product of human exhaust system (you see, I'm trying to stick to automotive tunes here).
Side-steps get in the way when stepping out of the car. I got my jeans dirty right away.
3rd row seat is for 2 small kids only, or maybe 1-2 adults for short (10-20 min) drive, not for a long family trip.
2nd row seat: seat cushion is abnormally short. People on the long trip will get unhappy. Front seats were nice and supportive, but not as nice as in Volvo XC70.
With 3rd seat up, cargo area is minuscule, but this is probably expected. When 3rd seat is folded away (nice feature, btw), cargo area is good: about the same as in my old Loyale ;-)
So for my $40K+ I'd probably choose ML but don't care for its looks either. Ok, will wait for "Grand Forester" from Subaru first.
and I hated how new Isuzu Axiom (with 3rd row seats) looked on the pictures... but I do like boxy look of the Trooper. What kind of mileage do you get?
See Lucien swoon to the fumes of the Foggy Dew fog machine! See him sparkle in the luminous glory of the disco ball! Dodge the laser beams that shoot like thor's lightning from Baltimore mayor Martin O'Malley's biceps!
(actually, I think he ditched all that stuff. I hope)
I week or so a go I picked a brochure on the MDX. They didn't have one in stock yet.
The brochure made no reference as to a spare tire. There were no pictures or words on that subject. I'm assuming it has one?? Probably a temp?
Tow rating is interesting: You can tow a "boat," up to 4500 lbs. All other towing is 3500 lbs. I believe you need trailer brakes on all trailers, if I read the footnote correctly.
Kate - I agree, the styling is the usual Honda-boring.
I also agree, if I were to be in the market for an SUV in that price range, it would probably be the Mercedes ML, if for no other reason, the ML is the only "new-generation" SUV with a low range. However, unfortunately, it too has a temp spare tire.
Had a chance to drive an MDX just the other day. Overall, I was impressed with the vehicle, but for $3000 over MSRP plus a wait time of 3-4 months, I would seriously consider other options.
The acceleration and handling of the MDX impressed me. The VTEC engine in it is willing and helped the MDX feel relatively spunky. Handling was most impressive -- it has a very tight turning radius for a vehicle of that size. Other things that were neat were the 3rd row seat that folds down as well as the Navi system.
What I didn't like about it (other than the $$ and wait times) were the looks. The exterior kept reminding me of it's Odyessey heritage, especially the back. The interior, while tastefully appointed, doesn't have quite the "luxury" feel of it's competitors. It seemed more high-end Honda than Acura.
I get 19mpg on the highway @ 65, flat terrain. With my driving, I get 14-17 depending. (and that is in AWD/TOD mode). It has a full size spare tire externally mounted. The AWD is basically opposite the AWD of the subarus (15/85 up to 50/50)
There is no stock 3rd row available, but there are a few aftermarket manufacturers who make em. Also outside the US you can get 3rd row seat that fold against the walls. A number of us are looking into importing them.
10/120K powertrain warranty 3/50K bumper to bumper.
These trucks are tough, and can tow 5000lbs. I routinely tow a 3500lb boat trailer w/o so much as noticing it's there til I go to change lanes.
Auto-climate standard, sky-light availble, 8 way power driver seat std on the LS, and power pass seat as well. Overall it's a little known secret that the trooper has exceptional value for a $27K SUV.
0-60 in 9s flat also for those speed demons out there.
I am with you on this one. I agree with Kate that the MDX looks more Astek than Lexus. I personally feel that an SUV SHOULD be boxy- keep the "U" in "SUV."
There is not enough room in the ML between the last frame crossmember and the rear axle for a full-size spare tire. The compact spare (and its carrier) has been designed to absorb energy and break away in a severe rear-end collision, so as to redirect as much of the impact forces away from the cabin as possible.
Only Canadian and Euro. MLs have the option for a full-size externally mounted spare tire carrier.
Towing is a weak spot with the MDX. Acura is now saying that all trailer hitches (about US$349 for the hitch) MUST be installed with the transmission cooler (an extra US$250-300 for the cooler, excluding installation costs) if towing is 2000 lbs or below. Above 2000 lbs, the power steering cooler (this is a first for me, I've never even heard of such a thing - another couple hundred bucks) must be installed in addition to the transmission cooler. Towing with a loaded weight (trailer + your stuff) of 1000 lbs or more requires electric or surge activated trailer brakes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's worse than what Subaru recommends!!!
Looks like Acura brings in the vehicle at a good price undercutting the competition by a couple of thousand dollars, but wacks you with these basic accessories. US$150-$250+ for a rear deflector!? US$150-$200 for a hood deflector!? Unpainted fender flares for US$700!!?? These prices exclude installation costs, BTW. Even the cargo covers (either the retractable kind, or the soft fold up kind - if you use the 3rd row seats often) are optional.
My ML's hood deflector was CDN$150 (price includes installation - when installed by dealership it includes a 1 year warranty, so I thought why not for extra $15), and the rear deflector was US$69 + $US15 shipping (installed by myself). My Class 3 trailer hitch (hitch receiver heavy duty rubber cover included) including installation and electrical connection was $500. Coolers not needed; vehicle was designed to tow 5000lbs (or 7000lbs in Europe with different hitch, trailer brakes and speed restrictions).
The MDX has an interesting CRV-like exhaust pipe setup. About 10" of the exhaust pipe runs underneath the rear diffy, and then pops back up and is routed along the rear wheel's lower control arms. So, actual ground clearance is only about 7".
WRT the MDX's AWD system, there doesn't seem to be a centre differential. Vehicle is 100% FWD over 18 mph, until slippage occurs. There is a lock mode that splits power evenly front and back, but you have to be in first, second or reverse gears. The lock is fully active until only 6 mph, and gradually diminishes until 18 mph where it shuts off.
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Whoops, mistake...in Germany, you can tow up to 7700lbs with the ML270 CDI (Common-rail direct injection diesel), ML320, ML430. The ML230 (2.3L I4 engine) can tow up to 6600lbs.
Just got back from a 5-hour road trip in 00 OB w/ 2 brothers and father. 3 over 6' and over 900 lbs total. Car drove great. Definately less oomph than when I drive alone, but handled I5 grapevine with relative ease. My dad was surprised it was a 4-cylinder, as we cruised uphill at 75 mph, which provided me a great opportunity to talk about merits of the Phase II engine. No complaints from backseat passengers. Could've used a little more legroom, but they all liked the high seat position and headrests. Also would've like to recline. Hopefully SOA is listening.
Also found a great site: here. First try at HTML for posting, so it probably won't work.
Your comments on the new MDX and ML are spot on - especially those regarding the towing capability and accessory prices.
It's funny all this talk about the MDX prompted me to go out and test drive one, which I just did about a 1/2 hour ago. So my memory is very fresh. The dealer I went to had one on the showroom floor with just about every dealer-installed option available. I have to admit that the MDX looks much better with the optional wheel flares, even if the cost is absurd.
It drove beautifully, and was extremely comfortable in both the front and second row seats. The third row seats are strictly for children, or for adults with no legs. It has a temp spare tire, but was told a full-size will fit. If that's the case, why isn't a full-size spare standard?
Also, the 4WD is really not much different from that used in the CRV, from a concept standpoint. It is still basicly FDW until slippage occurs, then it kicks in. Yes, it does have a locking feature, and it's certainly beefed up to handle much more power, but that's about the only difference.
Re: The ML Mercedes
I am really looking forward to the next-generation ML Mercedes, which is due out around 2004-5. I'm hoping (praying!) that they resist the trend to drop the low range in the transfer case. That low range is one of the features that makes the ML standout against vehicle like the MDX, RX300, etc.
I'm also hoping the that next ML will be more off-road capable. By that I mean offer some sort of locking 4x4 mode for really tough situations, more suspension travel, a height adjustable suspension (something like the rumored "Overland Suspension" which is rumored to be offered on the next-generation Grand Cherokee), and a full-size spare.
I've also read reports that the next ML and the next GL will share quite few parts. In fact, one report stated that the next GL will be basicly a ML sitting on top of a super-heavy-duty chassis.
You're the first person that I know that liked the MDX with the fender flares. Everyone else thinks that they look absurd, with the different colour and all.
WRT the ML, I'm sorry to have to disappoint you but the next generation ML will be unibody. It will have an air suspension system and be available in two different wheelbases. I don't know about its off-roadability though (low range will probably stay). I can tell you that it is likely that the next generation G-class (Gelandewagen) will be available for North America. It will have body-on-frame construction, just like the current M-class.
Why would you want a 4WD lock? The current system already allocates equal amount of power to all wheels. For '01, the system is known as 4ETS+, and there is a new 2 footed mode (one foot on the brake pedal, the other for the accelerator) in low range that allows ABS/4ETS to be active. This mode is mainly for crawling over obstacles, or accending steep slopes. '01 also brings in a downhill traction mode in 1st gear low range, which basically automatically activates between 2-12 mph to slow the vehicle down even more so.
Suspension travel is limited by the fact that it is a 4 wheel independent system. Currently, all wheels have 20 cm of travel. I think that the current setup gives most people way more off-roadability than they'll likely put the vehicle in anyway.
I think you may find these clips quite entertaining. If you pick up your ML at the factory in Alabama, you'll get a chance to experience this off-road track: http://www.mbusi.com/offroad/offroad_map.htm
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Chris: 2 Soobs would be sweet. Will the labs fit? Well, the Forester's cargo hold isn't as wide or as long, but it's taller than the OB's. I'd try it at the dealer.
Thanks, Kate, for the regular quota of Aztec humor.
Hey Ash: don't buy Ford.
The thought of using recalled Firestones as spares is scary. What are they thinking? Don't some people include them in tire rotations?
Loosh: hope the pup recovers well. Just took mine for a nice, long walk. Hadji is a loyal friend. When I leave he sits by the window for hours, whining. He won't even eat. I envy that kind of loyalty.
Do you ever play earlier in the day? Or on weeknights in the DC area? I'd like to check it out, but we only have the nanny during the week.
paisan: e-mail me off-line. I have her (Bonnie's) e-mail at work and I'll get it for you tomorrow.
MPG isn't exactly a bragging point for Isuzu. Just remember, gas is still relatively cheap. It's more of a brute with room to spare type of thinking. I agree a 3rd row seat would be a big selling point.
soon2be: I'd keep it at 30-33 psi or so. Subaru's specs are a bit low for my tastes, but if you find the ride too stiff, go with their specs.
I had seen that best handling article. I love that the Impreza is quicker in the wet than it is on dry pavement in some cases.
I'll have to try the MDX for the heck of it. Too bad the accessories are so pricey. You know me, by the time I equipped one the way I like, it would probably cost $50 grand!
A friend dragged me to a Volvo dealer and we drove an S40. Didn't get to wring it out, 'since she was scared, but drove enough to make an impression.
Or not. Not impressed, I mean. Gimme a break, that is no Volvo. Shiny plastic on the doors, with thin padding, hard plastic surfaces. Vinyl on the backs of the seats, for chrissake! CHEAP - that interior would be out of place in a Corolla!
It's also very, very small. I got back in my Forester and it felt like a limo.
The moonroof is also small. I'm too used to looking at Forester S Premiums. Power is good, but it's auto only, and the tranny is slow to respond. Didn't get to try the handling or braking, but the ride was only so-so. We bottomed out pulling back into the dealership. Once you've had the ground clearance, I'm not sure you can go back and give that up.
She wants to buy safety, but I tried to convince her it's really just a Mitsubishi built in Holland. I think I'm going to show her the IIHS scores for the Legacy, and get her to drive a GT. She has owned VWs and they were lemons so she would not touch a Passat. She is bored with Accords (has one now).
I'll let you guys know how it goes. I have another co-worker shopping for a Forester.
<<A HREF="javascript:openResponseOnlyWindow('SUV',3130,'565',1)">Post #565> This is what happens when someone tries to tout the Discovery II as a real competitor to the ML. I think this repSonse posted in the ML topic will get a chuckle out of all of you (I'll have to remember it). I was ROTFLMAO! :-)
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
I don't mind a unibody stup. Jeep has done just fine with such a setup with both the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. A unibody ML will probably be lighter than the current body-on-frame setup.
Why would I want a 4WD lock mode added? Read any off-road magazine test of the ML, and you'll find most of the editors complaining about the ML's inability in really tough off-road situations -- where a locked 4WD mode is not only desired, but mandatory. I haven't read one off-road road test by any of the "true" off-road magazines where the ML's 4WD system was universally praised. In every test I've read, the editors have found problems with the ML inability to send power to the wheels that needed the traction the most.
I want to see the next ML to be as good or better off road than any solid axle Jeep, Land Rover, etc. The current ML is great on road, and just okay off road. I want it to be great off-road too. In order to reach that goal it needs more suspension travel and the availability of some sort of a locking 4WD mode.
Now, having said all that, I know the current ML was never intended to be a pure purpose-built, rock-crawling, off-road specialist. That's the GL's role. But I think the ML could be better off-road than currently it is. Adding a locking 4WD mode, and offering more suspension travel would go a long way towards that end.
Drew, don't get me wrong. I "LIKE" the ML. Always have. It just could be a bit better offroad. I'm hoping Mercedes will address some of those shortcomings with the next generation model.
The '01 model's 4ETS+ is supposed to address some of the concerns that you have (the activation threshold has been lowered even further). The 4ETS on my '00 ML is tuned mainly for snow/ice use, and less so for off-road use.
By lock mode, you want locking differentials, right? Won't happen without solid axles...only the MB Gelandwagen currently has the 3 lockable differential setup. Yup, it has solid front and rear axles.
BTW, Jeep is moving to an independent setup (for at least the front wheels) for the Grand Cherokee. The next generation Range Rover (based on the same platform as the BMW X5) will have a 4 wheel independent suspension.
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
We both know the ML was designed (like most SUVs) to be primarily used as an on-road vehicle, with off-roading to be be secondary. The ML is excellent on road, as we all know. Off road it's better than many, but not as good as the best.
You may be right about the locking differentials. I don't know. All I know is that from what I've read about the ML (which is a lot), is that the folks who really use these vehicles off road, have had problems with the ML. Most of what I've read was when the ML was first introduced. You say Mercedes has revised the 4WD calibration, to be better off road. That's great. I hope it works.
Interestingly, the new 2001 Montero -- which has both a full-time 4WD mode & a part-time 4WD mode, as well as IFS/IRS, has been praised as an off roader. Maybe what I'm talking about is a part-time 4WD mode, and not locking differentials.
Re: new Jeeps
From what I've read, the new 2002 Cherokee will have both IFS and IRS. It will be shown at this year's Detroit Auto Show in December. The Wrangler will follow suit in 2003, and so will the Grand Cherokee in 2004. I've read that the Grand Cherokee will have a driver-controlled, height adjustable suspension to boot. I too have also read that the Range Rover will be using a beefed up version of the BMW X-5 IFS/IRS.
Made it back from the road trip last night. Cut it short by a week since we hit so much bad weather in Utah and Nevada that camping was getting a little less than ideal. Last night of camping was in NF near Blanding Utah. Beautiful afternoon turned to freezing rain by daybreak. Full report to follow tomorrow but here are the highlights:
00 GT wagon 5 speed and 1200 miles on the ODO at departure
5 weeks 22 states 8600 miles on mostly 2 lane highways Temps ranging from low 30s to 100+ Sun, rain, ice and snow Worst MPG 25 Best MPG 31 Average MPG should be around 27-28 (will do the math tomorrow) Best road was US 50 in Nevada Worst road was US 40 in Arkansas Most Soob sightings CO, UT and Lake Tahoe No Soobs GA or AK
I can now say we are pretty familiar with our GT wagon and we love it. What a great handling car on most any road in any weather. Easy to not only be comfortable in all day every day but have fun at the same time.
Again I have to say those dual moonroofs are great and would never consider the auto after owning the 5 speed. Vicki drives it harder than I do often pushing it to 5500 RPM between shifts. And we both found ourselves cruising along in 4th at 4+k and not realising it as 2.5 boxer is so smooth.
We had zero problems other than a bout of OCD (more tomorrow). Ended up with 5 paint chips on the hood and 1 nice little chip in the windshield from those @#&%&! gravel trucks.
Hope your dog is okay. Sounds like a nice cross breed. Bound to be very smart as both Border Collies and Australian Cattle Dogs are sharp. At least she won't experience this problem.
When our (male) labrador had his cruciate ligament repaired we found a major problem. He had to learn to cock his leg on the other side so he wouldn't fall over.
Same dog was repeatedly bitten by snakes over the years. They are very common where I come from. The venom damages both nervous system and blood cells, resulting in the need to lift the dog up so it could urinate and to feed it lots of iron rich food to build up red blood cells. One of the sillier memories of an interesting life is standing in a nightshirt in the rain, supporting a large dog, cocking one leg for him (hey if you're male, you understand about dignity!), whilst my mother (a nurse) held a torch and urine test strip to check whether there was any blood in his urine. Ultimately he went blind as a result of the snake bites and we had to be very careful not to move furniture or park cars in unfamiliar places, lest he walk into them. Ours was the only farm in the area where there was no wire below his head height, so he could walk into the paddocks unhindered. The silly things you do...
Sorry about this being off topic but I haven't mastered the fancier things of these pages.
Instead of buying gas-guzzling SUV with 3 rows of seats, it occurred to me that I can just tie the teenager to the roof rack of the Forester. It frees up so much space, and no whining while on the road... ;-)
Graham: aren't dogs great? If you haven't owned one, you just couldn't understand. I'll bet he would do a lot more "silly things" for you than you would for him!
bit: nice trip! 31mpg is tied for the best I've heard. Anyone beat that?
I've broken 30mpg, but with my new tires the speedo is off so I'll never match it again.
To call a Disco a prune is rather harsh. OK, I'll admit I chuckled!
LR's used to rule in 3rd world countries, but now they're rare because prices have skyrocketed and quality hasn't improved, while competitors from Toyota and Mitsubishi have.
The Japanese dominate in Belize and Suriname, at least. Hilux (4Runners) and Pajeros (Montys) rule. Some Land Cruisers (there are many models, including 2 doors) and plenty of Vitaras.
Anybody notice that the visors in the Outback cannot swing freely past the overhead console? I couldn't believe my eyes the other day when I had occasion (for the first time) to swing the visor over to the side window. The dang things cannot clear the overhead console without bending them down -- there's about 1" of interference. Was the visor engineer asleep when they designed the overhead console?? Jeez. This is a glaring design boo-boo in my opinion.
Comments
Anyway, I'm so stoked about our OB that I am seriously thinking about the Forester as a second car (Have to sell 2 motorcycles first, however.)
How much utility overlap do you think the two subes would have?
Sorry I don't have any pics of that last trip. Maybe next time.
By the way, congratulations on the new washing machine..
Chris
Cheers
Graham
..Mike
-mike
Despite use at least 5 days a week, I only have about 10,500+ kms in the 11 months that I've owned my ML.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
>But, I think you will find the Escape
>problems from the summer dwindling down now that
>the summer assembly line help from St. Mary's
>School for the Blind is back at school.
Aztek humor (from letter in C&D):
>"That huge tent cover for the rear of the Pontiac
>Aztek is pretty nifty. Do they have one that can >be used to cover the front end,too?"
Finally, my first sighting of the Aztek with real plates (not test-driven from dealership)! The plate says "PAPNFUS", and the driver was a young woman. Attitude, attitude...
First, drive to Yosemite a few times (from the SFBayArea).
Then, drive to Arizona and back.
Then invite your folks out and drive 3000 miles up to Washington State and back, in two weeks.
:-)
Chris (who is pondering an eventual drive to AZ to stay there... the big question is, can I stand the heat in Tucson?)
-mike
-mike
I did not get to drive MDX. All three on the lot were sold already, and we could only sit in those not drive.
I was disappointed in exterior looks. Way too minivan-ish for my taste. The interior is nice, but not superb. Ebony (black) leather looks elegant, but may get too hot in CA climate. But another interior choice is Saddle (beige) color -- brrr! Looks like a certain product of human exhaust system (you see, I'm trying to stick to automotive tunes here).
Side-steps get in the way when stepping out of the car. I got my jeans dirty right away.
3rd row seat is for 2 small kids only, or maybe 1-2 adults for short (10-20 min) drive, not for a long family trip.
2nd row seat: seat cushion is abnormally short. People on the long trip will get unhappy.
Front seats were nice and supportive, but not as nice as in Volvo XC70.
With 3rd seat up, cargo area is minuscule, but this is probably expected. When 3rd seat is folded away (nice feature, btw), cargo area is good: about the same as in my old Loyale ;-)
So for my $40K+ I'd probably choose ML but don't care for its looks either. Ok, will wait for "Grand Forester" from Subaru first.
-mike
Lucien
See Lucien swoon to the fumes of the Foggy Dew fog machine!
See him sparkle in the luminous glory of the disco ball!
Dodge the laser beams that shoot like thor's lightning from Baltimore mayor Martin O'Malley's biceps!
(actually, I think he ditched all that stuff. I hope)
I get to play guitar for O'Malley's March...
Mick O'Shea's. Baltimore, MD Saturday. 9:30. Oh...my....god.....
ALSO: I am playing at J. Patrick's Friday night. REAL Irish music this time, yea?
The brochure made no reference as to a spare tire. There were no pictures or words on that subject. I'm assuming it has one?? Probably a temp?
Tow rating is interesting: You can tow a "boat," up to 4500 lbs. All other towing is 3500 lbs. I believe you need trailer brakes on all trailers, if I read the footnote correctly.
Kate - I agree, the styling is the usual Honda-boring.
Bob
Bob
The acceleration and handling of the MDX impressed me. The VTEC engine in it is willing and helped the MDX feel relatively spunky. Handling was most impressive -- it has a very tight turning radius for a vehicle of that size. Other things that were neat were the 3rd row seat that folds down as well as the Navi system.
What I didn't like about it (other than the $$ and wait times) were the looks. The exterior kept reminding me of it's Odyessey heritage, especially the back. The interior, while tastefully appointed, doesn't have quite the "luxury" feel of it's competitors. It seemed more high-end Honda than Acura.
Ken
There is no stock 3rd row available, but there are a few aftermarket manufacturers who make em. Also outside the US you can get 3rd row seat that fold against the walls. A number of us are looking into importing them.
10/120K powertrain warranty 3/50K bumper to bumper.
These trucks are tough, and can tow 5000lbs. I routinely tow a 3500lb boat trailer w/o so much as noticing it's there til I go to change lanes.
Auto-climate standard, sky-light availble, 8 way power driver seat std on the LS, and power pass seat as well. Overall it's a little known secret that the trooper has exceptional value for a $27K SUV.
0-60 in 9s flat also for those speed demons out there.
-mike
Bob
http://www.subaru.co.nz/scrap_frameset.html
Only Canadian and Euro. MLs have the option for a full-size externally mounted spare tire carrier.
Towing is a weak spot with the MDX. Acura is now saying that all trailer hitches (about US$349 for the hitch) MUST be installed with the transmission cooler (an extra US$250-300 for the cooler, excluding installation costs) if towing is 2000 lbs or below. Above 2000 lbs, the power steering cooler (this is a first for me, I've never even heard of such a thing - another couple hundred bucks) must be installed in addition to the transmission cooler. Towing with a loaded weight (trailer + your stuff) of 1000 lbs or more requires electric or surge activated trailer brakes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's worse than what Subaru recommends!!!
Looks like Acura brings in the vehicle at a good price undercutting the competition by a couple of thousand dollars, but wacks you with these basic accessories. US$150-$250+ for a rear deflector!? US$150-$200 for a hood deflector!? Unpainted fender flares for US$700!!?? These prices exclude installation costs, BTW. Even the cargo covers (either the retractable kind, or the soft fold up kind - if you use the 3rd row seats often) are optional.
My ML's hood deflector was CDN$150 (price includes installation - when installed by dealership it includes a 1 year warranty, so I thought why not for extra $15), and the rear deflector was US$69 + $US15 shipping (installed by myself). My Class 3 trailer hitch (hitch receiver heavy duty rubber cover included) including installation and electrical connection was $500. Coolers not needed; vehicle was designed to tow 5000lbs (or 7000lbs in Europe with different hitch, trailer brakes and speed restrictions).
The MDX has an interesting CRV-like exhaust pipe setup. About 10" of the exhaust pipe runs underneath the rear diffy, and then pops back up and is routed along the rear wheel's lower control arms. So, actual ground clearance is only about 7".
WRT the MDX's AWD system, there doesn't seem to be a centre differential. Vehicle is 100% FWD over 18 mph, until slippage occurs. There is a lock mode that splits power evenly front and back, but you have to be in first, second or reverse gears. The lock is fully active until only 6 mph, and gradually diminishes until 18 mph where it shuts off.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/european/mbmc/m9432.html
Just got back from a 5-hour road trip in 00 OB w/
2 brothers and father. 3 over 6' and over 900 lbs
total. Car drove great. Definately less oomph than
when I drive alone, but handled I5 grapevine with
relative ease. My dad was surprised it was a
4-cylinder, as we cruised uphill at 75 mph, which
provided me a great opportunity to talk about
merits of the Phase II engine.
No complaints from backseat passengers. Could've
used a little more legroom, but they all liked the
high seat position and headrests. Also would've
like to recline. Hopefully SOA is listening.
Also found a great site: here. First try at HTML
for posting, so it probably won't work.
Brett
http://home.netvigator.com/~europa/index.html.
Brett
It's funny all this talk about the MDX prompted me to go out and test drive one, which I just did about a 1/2 hour ago. So my memory is very fresh. The dealer I went to had one on the showroom floor with just about every dealer-installed option available. I have to admit that the MDX looks much better with the optional wheel flares, even if the cost is absurd.
It drove beautifully, and was extremely comfortable in both the front and second row seats. The third row seats are strictly for children, or for adults with no legs. It has a temp spare tire, but was told a full-size will fit. If that's the case, why isn't a full-size spare standard?
Also, the 4WD is really not much different from that used in the CRV, from a concept standpoint. It is still basicly FDW until slippage occurs, then it kicks in. Yes, it does have a locking feature, and it's certainly beefed up to handle much more power, but that's about the only difference.
Re: The ML Mercedes
I am really looking forward to the next-generation ML Mercedes, which is due out around 2004-5. I'm hoping (praying!) that they resist the trend to drop the low range in the transfer case. That low range is one of the features that makes the ML standout against vehicle like the MDX, RX300, etc.
I'm also hoping the that next ML will be more off-road capable. By that I mean offer some sort of locking 4x4 mode for really tough situations, more suspension travel, a height adjustable suspension (something like the rumored "Overland Suspension" which is rumored to be offered on the next-generation Grand Cherokee), and a full-size spare.
I've also read reports that the next ML and the next GL will share quite few parts. In fact, one report stated that the next GL will be basicly a ML sitting on top of a super-heavy-duty chassis.
Bob
WRT the ML, I'm sorry to have to disappoint you but the next generation ML will be unibody. It will have an air suspension system and be available in two different wheelbases. I don't know about its off-roadability though (low range will probably stay). I can tell you that it is likely that the next generation G-class (Gelandewagen) will be available for North America. It will have body-on-frame construction, just like the current M-class.
Why would you want a 4WD lock? The current system already allocates equal amount of power to all wheels. For '01, the system is known as 4ETS+, and there is a new 2 footed mode (one foot on the brake pedal, the other for the accelerator) in low range that allows ABS/4ETS to be active. This mode is mainly for crawling over obstacles, or accending steep slopes. '01 also brings in a downhill traction mode in 1st gear low range, which basically automatically activates between 2-12 mph to slow the vehicle down even more so.
Suspension travel is limited by the fact that it is a 4 wheel independent system. Currently, all wheels have 20 cm of travel. I think that the current setup gives most people way more off-roadability than they'll likely put the vehicle in anyway.
I think you may find these clips quite entertaining. If you pick up your ML at the factory in Alabama, you'll get a chance to experience this off-road track:
http://www.mbusi.com/offroad/offroad_map.htm
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
That was a great NZ link in your post #2312. Thanks.
Thanks, Kate, for the regular quota of Aztec humor.
Hey Ash: don't buy Ford.
The thought of using recalled Firestones as spares is scary. What are they thinking? Don't some people include them in tire rotations?
Loosh: hope the pup recovers well. Just took mine for a nice, long walk. Hadji is a loyal friend. When I leave he sits by the window for hours, whining. He won't even eat. I envy that kind of loyalty.
Do you ever play earlier in the day? Or on weeknights in the DC area? I'd like to check it out, but we only have the nanny during the week.
paisan: e-mail me off-line. I have her (Bonnie's) e-mail at work and I'll get it for you tomorrow.
MPG isn't exactly a bragging point for Isuzu. Just remember, gas is still relatively cheap. It's more of a brute with room to spare type of thinking. I agree a 3rd row seat would be a big selling point.
-juice
I had seen that best handling article. I love that the Impreza is quicker in the wet than it is on dry pavement in some cases.
I'll have to try the MDX for the heck of it. Too bad the accessories are so pricey. You know me, by the time I equipped one the way I like, it would probably cost $50 grand!
A friend dragged me to a Volvo dealer and we drove an S40. Didn't get to wring it out, 'since she was scared, but drove enough to make an impression.
Or not. Not impressed, I mean. Gimme a break, that is no Volvo. Shiny plastic on the doors, with thin padding, hard plastic surfaces. Vinyl on the backs of the seats, for chrissake! CHEAP - that interior would be out of place in a Corolla!
It's also very, very small. I got back in my Forester and it felt like a limo.
The moonroof is also small. I'm too used to looking at Forester S Premiums. Power is good, but it's auto only, and the tranny is slow to respond. Didn't get to try the handling or braking, but the ride was only so-so. We bottomed out pulling back into the dealership. Once you've had the ground clearance, I'm not sure you can go back and give that up.
She wants to buy safety, but I tried to convince her it's really just a Mitsubishi built in Holland. I think I'm going to show her the IIHS scores for the Legacy, and get her to drive a GT. She has owned VWs and they were lemons so she would not touch a Passat. She is bored with Accords (has one now).
I'll let you guys know how it goes. I have another co-worker shopping for a Forester.
Soon, I'll convert all of them! YEAH! %*}
-juice
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Why would I want a 4WD lock mode added? Read any off-road magazine test of the ML, and you'll find most of the editors complaining about the ML's inability in really tough off-road situations -- where a locked 4WD mode is not only desired, but mandatory. I haven't read one off-road road test by any of the "true" off-road magazines where the ML's 4WD system was universally praised. In every test I've read, the editors have found problems with the ML inability to send power to the wheels that needed the traction the most.
I want to see the next ML to be as good or better off road than any solid axle Jeep, Land Rover, etc. The current ML is great on road, and just okay off road. I want it to be great off-road too. In order to reach that goal it needs more suspension travel and the availability of some sort of a locking 4WD mode.
Now, having said all that, I know the current ML was never intended to be a pure purpose-built, rock-crawling, off-road specialist. That's the GL's role. But I think the ML could be better off-road than currently it is. Adding a locking 4WD mode, and offering more suspension travel would go a long way towards that end.
Drew, don't get me wrong. I "LIKE" the ML. Always have. It just could be a bit better offroad. I'm hoping Mercedes will address some of those shortcomings with the next generation model.
Bob
By lock mode, you want locking differentials, right? Won't happen without solid axles...only the MB Gelandwagen currently has the 3 lockable differential setup. Yup, it has solid front and rear axles.
BTW, Jeep is moving to an independent setup (for at least the front wheels) for the Grand Cherokee. The next generation Range Rover (based on the same platform as the BMW X5) will have a 4 wheel independent suspension.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
You may be right about the locking differentials. I don't know. All I know is that from what I've read about the ML (which is a lot), is that the folks who really use these vehicles off road, have had problems with the ML. Most of what I've read was when the ML was first introduced. You say Mercedes has revised the 4WD calibration, to be better off road. That's great. I hope it works.
Interestingly, the new 2001 Montero -- which has both a full-time 4WD mode & a part-time 4WD mode, as well as IFS/IRS, has been praised as an off roader. Maybe what I'm talking about is a part-time 4WD mode, and not locking differentials.
Re: new Jeeps
From what I've read, the new 2002 Cherokee will have both IFS and IRS. It will be shown at this year's Detroit Auto Show in December. The Wrangler will follow suit in 2003, and so will the Grand Cherokee in 2004. I've read that the Grand Cherokee will have a driver-controlled, height adjustable suspension to boot. I too have also read that the Range Rover will be using a beefed up version of the BMW X-5 IFS/IRS.
Bob
00 GT wagon 5 speed and 1200 miles on the ODO at departure
5 weeks
22 states
8600 miles on mostly 2 lane highways
Temps ranging from low 30s to 100+
Sun, rain, ice and snow
Worst MPG 25
Best MPG 31
Average MPG should be around 27-28 (will do the math tomorrow)
Best road was US 50 in Nevada
Worst road was US 40 in Arkansas
Most Soob sightings CO, UT and Lake Tahoe
No Soobs GA or AK
I can now say we are pretty familiar with our GT wagon and we love it. What a great handling car on most any road in any weather. Easy to not only be comfortable in all day every day but have fun at the same time.
Again I have to say those dual moonroofs are great and would never consider the auto after owning the 5 speed. Vicki drives it harder than I do often pushing it to 5500 RPM between shifts. And we both found ourselves cruising along in 4th at 4+k and not realising it as 2.5 boxer is so smooth.
We had zero problems other than a bout of OCD (more tomorrow). Ended up with 5 paint chips on the hood and 1 nice little chip in the windshield from those @#&%&! gravel trucks.
bit
When our (male) labrador had his cruciate ligament repaired we found a major problem. He had to learn to cock his leg on the other side so he wouldn't fall over.
Same dog was repeatedly bitten by snakes over the years. They are very common where I come from. The venom damages both nervous system and blood cells, resulting in the need to lift the dog up so it could urinate and to feed it lots of iron rich food to build up red blood cells. One of the sillier memories of an interesting life is standing in a nightshirt in the rain, supporting a large dog, cocking one leg for him (hey if you're male, you understand about dignity!), whilst my mother (a nurse) held a torch and urine test strip to check whether there was any blood in his urine. Ultimately he went blind as a result of the snake bites and we had to be very careful not to move furniture or park cars in unfamiliar places, lest he walk into them. Ours was the only farm in the area where there was no wire below his head height, so he could walk into the paddocks unhindered. The silly things you do...
Sorry about this being off topic but I haven't mastered the fancier things of these pages.
Cheers
Graham
Graham: great story! (as usual)
Kate: great idea, I bet you can anchor a lawn chair up there!
Craig
Graham: aren't dogs great? If you haven't owned one, you just couldn't understand. I'll bet he would do a lot more "silly things" for you than you would for him!
bit: nice trip! 31mpg is tied for the best I've heard. Anyone beat that?
I've broken 30mpg, but with my new tires the speedo is off so I'll never match it again.
To call a Disco a prune is rather harsh. OK, I'll admit I chuckled!
LR's used to rule in 3rd world countries, but now they're rare because prices have skyrocketed and quality hasn't improved, while competitors from Toyota and Mitsubishi have.
The Japanese dominate in Belize and Suriname, at least. Hilux (4Runners) and Pajeros (Montys) rule. Some Land Cruisers (there are many models, including 2 doors) and plenty of Vitaras.
-juice
Craig