Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    I have to say that the Car & Driver H6 test comes to similar conclusions as the Motor test here in Australia. Everyone seems to agree that the mechanicals are sophisticated but the price a bit worrying for the H6. The overall conclusion for the Motor test seeemed to be stick with the smaller engine and save your cash. As to style, I have to admit that Subarus are rarely described as beautiful.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    I put my snows on the factory alloys.. so now I have an excuse to buy some new custom wheels for the summer Michelins!
    Now, the question is... can I get all these tires & wheels paid for before I need new tires again?!
    Oh well... at least the popcorn at Les Schwabs' is pretty good... :)

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    Yeah, I suspect that if the VDC were priced under $30,000, Car and Driver would've given it a much, much better review. I really think the H6 models are going to run into that sort of price resistance a lot.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    What a ridiculous double standard. There are more >$30,000 SUVs than you can shake a stick at, and hardly anyone comments on their poor value.

    Yet they dig on the Outback H6 mercilessly. The Outback is a pretty big wagon, so I think the comparison is fair.

    -Colin
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    You're right Colin. I think alot of it has to do with the fact that the $30K barrier is virgin territory for Soobies. Then there's the mainstream automotive media establishment's anti-Subaru mindset that also has to be overcome. Let's face it; if the VDC had a Ford badge on it, the car rags would all be going gaga over it.

    -Frank P.
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Oh, I dunno. C&D has some faults, and there are a few double standards floating around in there, but they hold few good feelings towards any SUV - even ones with BMW badges. They pooh-poohed the X5 or whatever it is, and pretty consistently berate the rest of the them. In fact they took a pot shot at SUV's right there in the H6 review.

    If I get ticked about anything it is that there seems to be a pretty solid sentiment across the US automotive press corps that Subies in general cost more than they should. I've read the same thing about the Legacy GT and the Impreza 2.5RS for example. It tends to go, "for that amount of money you could get into a ", and the invariably is lacking something substantial in comparison to the Subie - such as AWD. Now that irks me. I bought my GT because it was a great value, costing thousands of dollars less than any other comparably equipped automobile. I'm pretty tight with a buck!

    Regards,
    -wdb
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If you are a pigmy maybe...

    No offense to colin, but the Legacy platform wagon (OB, Leg Wagon) are pretty darn small compared to say a Tarus wagon or even the passat.

    Coming from someone who didn't buy a Legacy GT wagon because of it's lack of power and price, I'd have to say they are a bit steeply priced. Considering for 3K more than the GT Wagon that I was gonna ge, I got more features in a bigger package w/more HP, tourque and towing, the only downsides were handling and gas milage. I still got AWD, 4wheel anti-lock, 4 wheel disc, moonroof, and a whole bunch more options.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    At 3700lb with the H6 I consider it a BIG wagon. If the internal dimensions are lacking, so be it.

    You also got something that handles like a truck. Just like you never cease to mention your Trooper when Outbacks come up, I'll never cease to point out that it doesn't drive the same. ;-)

    Even though life is not a big race, I am not content to have a truck of any kind as a daily driver.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No real snow, just a threat. Too bad. Still a stark contrast to the weather in Brazil though!

    I did see a Forester in Brazil. Just one, but finally. One other Impreza, but that's it. There is no Soob retailer in Recife (I checked because I wanted to try a WRX).

    Another observation - Land Rovers are common there. The Defender line has several models, all cheaper than even a base Forester.

    Of course they are near-military vehicles, spartan and with few options (no A/C). But again I found it interesting that Land Rovers are cheap and Foresters are upscale.

    Do you think C&D complains that Land Rovers cost more than $30k? It's all image.

    Patti: you want to guess what the best selling import in Brazil is? Think WRC.

    If you said Peugoet 306, you got it. Who says rallying doesn't do wonders for sales? The amazing thing is that they only sell models with up to a measly 115hp. No turbo, no real power. They even have a cosmetic "Rallye" edition with no extra power, but it sells like hot cakes.

    Paisan: congrats on getting the Isuzu groups started. Good to go.

    I'll have to check on homepage.com to see why QSubaru's and my site have been having constant problems. Anyone suggest an alternate host site?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yes, the VDC is a porker @ 3700 lbs it's down right heavy. Heck my Trooper is only 4500lbs! And my '97 Rodeo was only 3500ish. My point was that the OB is still based on the legacy which is a pretty darn small car as far as space is concerned. It may be heavy, but it's still small.

    I also agree, that the 2 downsides are handling and fuel economy on my Trooper, but it's still cheaper than an LL Bean!

    -mike
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    I think you mean 206, right? ;-)


    Drew
    Host
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  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    The 306 is a bigger production car but smaller rallycar, it races in the F2 class (2.0L naturally aspirated FWD). The 206 is the smaller car that races in WRC class with a 4WD 2.0L turbo.

    Juice might have meant 306...

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Drew was right on - it's the 206.

    They do sell the 106, 306, and even 406 over there. The 206 is the only one remotely interesting.

    It stands out with it's very quirky styling. They even make a 5 door hatch!

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Welcome back, juice!
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    is the cost of that trooper including gas and insurance, or just the trooper? I think the LL Bean has got the Trooper beat if its including gas.

    My biggest beef with the C&D review was the complaining about the interior of the OB. I don't know what planet they're from, but I like the bland beige combination far more than say ... the Passat's.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    despite their relative (and recent) image in the US as posh country clubbers, Land Rovers are pretty much the world standard for getting around where the rubber meets the ruts. The Defenders, that is. Bulletproof drivetrains, real easy to work on, parts available, or can be fashioned out of Tuna Fush cans. 2nd place: Land Cruiser, especially J40s.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Boy the tail hangs out with a 20mm swaybar! :))))
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    "FRIDAY FREEWAY"
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    About This Chat
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    want to talk about!) This is YOUR chat...come join in!

    Click here!
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    We look forward to seeing you! I know that I'll be there :-)

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  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Let's not start to compare apples and oranges here, because it can get ridiculous. The OB is not an SUV!

    Size-wise, the Legacy platform is in the same slot as the Camry/Accord (in my book). Based on my personal experience with all these cars, I'd say the interior of the Legacy is average to better than average. While home for Christmas, my parents kept wanting to use my OB for day trips, because the back seat was roomier than their Accord. It made an impression on me.

    When I bought my base/5-spd OB, I felt like I was getting a huge bargain. For under $22K, I got a well equipped vehicle with AWD, car handling, and the overall capabilities of most smaller SUVs (or better). Sizewise it was exactly what I wanted, and I don't really like larger SUVs.

    At this moment in time, I would not personally buy an H6 for the same reason I would not spend $28-32K on an SUV -- it does not seem reasonable to me. Note that I had no problems plunking down $27K on a sports car, however, which probably tells you how I can justify spending money!! But seriously, the base model OB is a bargain that even John Phillips alluded to in his counterpoint to the C&D review (he got the price wrong, but his point was valid). I can see how someone would feel good about the base OB's value, and then flinch at spending $6-8K more for an H6, because that's how I feel!!

    It's not that the H6 seems overpriced compared to other cars and SUVs in its class (it is not), it's that is is overpriced compared to the base models!

    Craig
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    My mom's '64 LeSabre Wagon... now THAT was big!
    (grin)

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    1967 Cadillac Sedan deVille

    1970 Buick Electra 225 (heck, ANY true deuce-and-a-quarter Buick)

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    A '67 Riviera. Hoo doggie...

    Then my parents had a Grand Marquis Colony Park, 1983. Lordy it was big. It didn't have amber side markers; the one on the left was red and the one on the right was green. :)
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    a 1958 Caddie Fleetwood. Slept 5, 6 if they were really good friends.

    Ross
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Nice to have Juice back from sunny Recife. I bet it was a shock to hit the cold again.

    I hadn't realized the positioning of Land Rovers in the USA. Historically, the range now branded as Defender was the standard hard working 4wd around the world with particularly strong sales in those markets where extreme toughness was preferred. Very big in Africa and for a long time very popular here in Australia. They can be ordered in masses of variations and used to come with the option of a power take-off shaft.

    I feel some affection for them. They were always far more effective than Jeeps and the Aluminium body was much better protected than most other 4wd vehicles. They were however a bit rough on the build quality with the usual English habit of electrical systems which worked sometimes.

    In Australia, they were the dominant 4wd from the 1950s to 1970s when the Toyota Landcruiser and, to a lesser extent, Nissan Patrol took their place.

    I can remember the incredulity of one of my Dad's staff when seeing a Landcruiser for the first time "But it's got a heater and a radio". This was initially assumed to imply "softness" but the realisation that these were seriously hard wearing vehicles came quickly. The fact that they don't break down much and that the electricals work is a big attraction.

    Over time the station wagon version has become popular amongst city based types with aspirations of "outdoors living" particularly those who tow boats or caravans. The bush vehicle tends to be the troop carrier version or tray bed utility.

    The Landcruiser is now the standard bush working vehicle and Land Rovers are a bit of a specialty. Range Rovers have some following amongst the stupidly wealthy and you do see some Discovery and Freelander models around. A friend had a Range Rover in England and joked that it was more expensive to maintain than keeping a lover.

    If I was after a serious 4wd, I would think of a lot of others before getting a Land Rover.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day again

    Mention by Juice of Peugeot and following comments also point up the differences in perception of Peugeots in Europe and USA.

    Peugeot make a range of extremely good cars with particular skill at suspensions and very effective engines, especially diesels. Occassionally, I used to drive them whilst in England and the feel-good factorr was definitely there when pushing on hard.

    Historically Peugeots are very popular in Africa where the superb suspension, probably developed for the dodgy French road surfaces, makes for easy driving. The old Peugeout 404 and 504 wagons were particularly popular. They seem to go on forever and get to places you would not believe.

    In Australia, they held a similar sort of market position to the Subaru long before Subaru got here. For complicated reasons, not least the French arrogance about exploding Nuclear weaons in the Pacific and using Australia as an entry point to send saboteurs to blow up a Greenpeace vessel, the Rainbow Warrior, in New Zealand, imports of French cars practically ceased about 15 years ago. Australians are not fond of governments killing people, particularly foreign nationals and have long memories. That does not stop Peugeots being good cars though.

    The 106 is a typical small hatch, virtually indistinguishable from the Citroen Saxo. Its the sort of car you would put your daughter or mother in if you were a kind hearted father/son who was being generous (like Juice).

    The 206 is a follow on from the wonderful 205, the GTi version of which was "The Hot Hatch" to own in the mid 1980's. They are a great ride with fabulous handling.

    The 306 is now aging but was very pleasant to drive with very stable handling and compliant suspension.

    The 406 is also aging a bit but was the best car of this size before the Passsat was introduced. The chassis is absolutely superb and when teamed with the more powerful diesel engine (110 bhp) is a wondefully capable all day cruiser over poor roads or motorways. There is a wagon version with a third row of seats which is a great family car and a real alternative to a van.

    There is also a coupe version of the 406 which is absolutely gorgeous. Think baby Ferrari and you have the idea. Fitted with a 3.0litre V6 this is superb.

    Peugeot also do a poor van, the 806 which should be avoded at all costs. It is a co-operative deal with Citroen and Fiat and is seriously unpleasant.

    If you ever get the chance to drive a Peugeot, give it a try, particularly if you can find a poor quality road surface. It is a real eye opener as to how suspension systems should be designed.

    If I won a 406 or any Peugeot in a raffle, I would have no hesitation about keeping it. I might just have to move the boat to one side to fit it into the garage next to my Outback.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    It's not apropos of much of anything Subaru-related but I think Dave Barry's Humvee test drive column is quite a hoot!:

    http://www.herald.com/content/archive/living/Barry/2001/docs/jan07.htm
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    I'm pretty convinced of the off-road viability of Toyota's Land Cruisers, but I keep hearing wildly differing things about Land Rovers. I hear that they're very capable and rugged off-road vehicles, but I also hear that they're high maintenance and not terribly reliable (raising the question of how far off road you'd want to go with a vehicle that might go conk out on you?). Is it an issue of which model of Land Rover you go with, or is it the U.S. versions vs. overseas versions, or is the Land Rover just a schizophrenic beast?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think the last time Peugeots were sold here in the States, was perhaps back in the early '70s or late '60s.

    Like all French cars of that era, a bit strange, although Peugeot was perhaps among the most normal of the bunch.

    Bob
  • nailitnailit Member Posts: 14
    I have to echo Graham's comments about the Peugot suspension and handling. We had a 1978 504 4Dr 2.3L Diesel automatic in our stable for several years and that thing was an amazing cruiser. And once you sorted out all its little anomalies, i. e. injector timing, transmission cooling and cylinder head (aluminum on a cast iron block) it was a fun car. We drove that thing back and forth cross-country (23-25 mpg with a good tail wind)and it just chugged up and down the mountains like it was designed to do it all day, even with over 200K miles on the odometer. The thing I remember most was the independent rear suspension and how that set up just soaked up the ruts and potholes and never got squirrely like some rear wheel drive cars will do. While they are not set up the same, I think the ride on my wife's Forester is very similar although not as cushy. Both cars just soak it up and keep on going. Thanks Graham for taking me back to some nearly forgotten but very fond memories.
    Best regards, Dale
  • skipdskipd Member Posts: 97
    Pat:

    Thanks for the suggestions on Forester accessories. I guess I should have mentioned the accessories that I already have on my '01 Forester L. Here goes:

    CD Player, tweeter kit, keyless entry and alarm, rear cargo cover, cargo net, tailpipe cover. I think that's about it. Oh, I also bought the Yakima round bar roof rack to top my canoe.

    I considered the armrest extension, but I didn't want to lose the cupholder there....it's the only one big enough to hold my water bottle. Now I'm looking at exterior accessories, mainly for looks. I like the look of the brushgaurd, eventhough it's not really all that functional. It beefs up the look of the bumper. I also like the look of those fender flares, however, the photo in the brochure makes them look like they are darker than the bumpers and side molding of the L model. I would prefer that they match.

    Sounds like you have a very nice ride in the '01 Sedona Red with the premium package. I am envious of that huge sunroof you have. I do beleive I saw a photo of your Forester posted on the board many months ago....am I correct in this assumption.

    Any other comments are welcome.

    Take care all,

    Skip
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well 10/120K powertrain warranty, Insurance, the OB and Trooper are dead even as far as my allstate insurance is concerned. So the only downsides for me on the Trooper were the gas milage. But like I said, the handling and the gas milage were the only down sides of the Trooper as compared to the LL Bean, GT Wagon, or OB Ltd. The Trooper is the best kept SUV secret, most SUVs in the class of AWD, and that size (near full size) are well into the $30s as a selling price, so the OB is gonna beat em by $5K-8K, But the Trooper @ $26K for the LS model with skylight is a steal.

    -mike
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    All this Peugeot chatter has me in full reminisce mode. My last 3 cars prior to my current Subaru were Peugeots; 505S sedan, 405S wagon, 505S Turbo sedan. All had wonderful, mechanically adjusted driver's seats, splendid road manners, and the positively magical suspension to which Graham and Dale alluded.

    How magical? Glad you asked. Here in the eastern US there are a lot of remnants of the heyday of rail travel, particularly in the form of railroad crossings. In my state there are thousands of them, and they all seem to have two things in common: 1) because of grading, the tracks are at least a foot or three higher than the road surface on either side; 2) the quality of the surface between the tracks is abysmal and the surface level is very inconsistent. Picture a series of small speed bumps, randomly spaced from 6 inches to 4 feet apart, the whole works up above the road surface by 1 to 3 feet, with ramps leading on and off. After having driven Peugeots for a very short time it became second nature for me to barely even slow down for these things. The only time I did slow down was when I had people in the car who were uninitiated to riding in Peugeots, because it tended to make them suck in their breath, grab onto handles and seatmates, and generally get on as though they were having a heart attack. The car, meanwhile, would simple be going about its business, lifting its body up via the "up" ramp, holding it aloft as the wheels pattered lightly atop the torture test below, and then gently settling back down on the other side. No bump stop thumps, no sideways skitters, no loss of composure whatever.

    Yes, Peugeots have fabulous suspensions. Real-world suspensions. Dig around as I might I cannot remember a time that I had did anything that caused a Peugeot to act with anything less than aplomb, and I drive in a spirited manner. Lose traction, yes; lose composure, never. In my experience they remain the quintessential backroad vehicle, even the largish 505. They never were truly appreciated by American automotive media, who tended to call them 'soft' and blather on about body lean and odd control placement. Which of course caused them to miss the true joy of driving a Peugeot entirely. I can only surmise that none of them ever had the good sense to drive one across a nasty railroad crossing with impunity.

    For the record, Peugeot left the US market in 1991 due to low sales and a dearth of products in their lineup that fit the American buying habit of the time (read: minivans and SUVs). Since that time there have been repeated rumblings of a return but no action. They continue to this day to maintain a presence in the US, to support the vehicles they sold here - much to their credit. I drove my Turbo until March of last year when it cracked yet another cylinder head and I deemed it to be too far into the high maintenance zone to trust anymore. I replaced it with a Legacy GT, which I find to be the Peugeot's match in quirkiness and backroad fun factor. However the folks at FHI could take a lesson from Peugeot on seating and suspension. For that matter, so could virtually every other carmaker.

    Regards,
    -wdb
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    in general, have always been noted for their excellent suspensions.

    Bob
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    also had a rather remarkable suspension. For some reason, it was the African spec model (skid plates under sump and muffler, long travel suspension, etc). It leaned a lot in the corners but was remarkably forgiving and had an excellent grip for the time (1969). A friend and I were doing some rather spirited driving on an old logging road with many rocks and switchbacks. After the first hour, the handling seemed a bit off and since it was almost time to switch drivers I pulled over. The left rear tire was in shreds, the rim was somewhat mangled. Truly amazing that we stayed on the road at the speed I was driving. Oh the joys of being young and invulnerable. BTW, this was the only car I bought twice (long story). At 101,000 miles I sold it to a former student. It died at 127,000 - she thought that since it was FWD it didn't need oil, never even checked. Strangely, she got a "B" in my course.

    Ross
  • pat88pat88 Member Posts: 40
    Skip...

    That was a picture of my Forester posted a few months back--which one person named -- "pat88's red pet". I agree! :-) It was note #513 of 2223 on the old Meet the Members section.

    You can see the bronze brush guard on my Forester.
    You can also get the guard in all black.

    We didn't get the fender flares because of the monotone Sedona Red. It wouldn't look good on this Forester. I wish they did have something that would look good on it and protect the car.

    ~~~Pat
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    We've got the fender flares on our monochromatic white Forester S Premium, and I think they enhance the vehicle's looks. They draw more attention to the wheels, and actually make the wheels "appear" larger, which I like.

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    the cred is reserved for the Defender 1950-199-whatever. Despite dodgy electricals, they were simple to work on, and parts could be improvised, making them easy to keep running in the bush. J40's proved easier, though.
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Now there was another lovely car to drive. My dad had one and it a lovely soft suspension which soaked up bumps. It leant dramatically in corners as the suspension was so soft.

    Wierdly, the wheelbase was longer on one side than the other as the rear suspension involved an arm extending the width of the car. The right side arm was ahead of the left (or vice versa) meaning that the gap from the rear door to the wheel was different on each side.

    The Renault 16 also had a very practical load carrying arrangement, allowing the rear seat to move 6" forward to give increased boot space. Rear leg room was them a bit on the short side.

    Other options were to entirely remove the rear seats or to swing the seat back horizontal and the seat squab forward giving a large flat and very low load bay.

    Colour choice was "interesting" with dad's car being a very dirty brown, ideally matched to the colour of the mud in the mine where he worked. He claimed that avoiding the need to wash the car was a major benefit.

    Unfortunately the build quality on Australian cars was pretty poor. They were imported as CKD (completely knocked down) units from France and assembled in Melbourne. The same thing was done for Peugeot.

    If you have ever put an IKEA wardrobe together, you have an idea of the possibilities for things going amiss. Dad's car had the drain hoses from the left and right side reversed meaning that whenever it rained, the passenger footwell filled with water. For a long time they forgot to rust-proof the body shells meaning that a whole batch of cars started to rust alarmingly at about three years old.

    It was the sort of car that had a constant succession of minor ills with trim imperfectly fitted and such like. Ultimately dad replaced it with a Mitsubishi Sigma (Galant). A lot less exciting to drive but the reassurance that things didn't fall off it was a major relief. That experience mirrors my pleasure in moveing from a very crummy Mercedes to the Outback. However, I get an awful lot more fun from the Outbcak than I ever did from The Merc.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • aussierooaussieroo Member Posts: 78
    browsing an english grammar site and stumbled across the following:

    The indefinite articles : a, an
    a goes before a consonnant

    an before a vowel.

    A boy.
    An apple.
    A car.
    An orange.
    A house.
    An opera.

    Note:

    An before an h mute: - an hour, an honour.
    A before u and eu when they are pronounced 'you': a european, a university, a unit.

    The indefinite article is used before professions, nationalities and religions

    John is a doctor.
    He is an Englishman.(He is English)
    He is a Protestant.

    referring to A SUV as AN SUV sounds as bad as a MacDonald's burger tastes

    cheers for the new year,decade,century,milennium

    gus
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    We missed you on the site. Hope you had a great holiday!

    To the group: Thanks for all of the insight. I enjoyed reading it!
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    it's your grammar :-)

    Aussieroo, acronyms get separate treatment.

    Ex: I would never, ever, buy an ESS-EWE-VEE with my MO-NEY.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Seems like my trip sparked up some nostalgia.

    My dad had an Electra too! I remember so many times having to get out and push when it snowed...

    Before you dream too much, keep in mind many of those European cars are quirky and struggle to meet even Brazil's much lower quality standards.

    My brother's wife drove a Renault 19, and it was so bad it only lasted 4 years (near the ocean, rust is very common). He drove it back to the dealer, and with some help to push it back onto the lot, sold it for whatever they were willing to give him.

    What that in mind, the styling can be interesting. The Renault Laguna is nice, as is the Peugoet 607. The Alfa Romeo 156 is gorgeous - what presence!

    Loosh - you'll like to know that Toyota still makes those "Jipes" today, I think the same J40 you're talking about.

    There are several Defender models - 90, 100, open and closed. With poor quality, though, they've lost market share to Toyota (various Land Cruisers) and Mitsubishi (Pajeros), mostly.

    Anyway, back home now, the Forester seems so comparatively big! It has acres compared to my mom's rusty Uno. And power steering! Nice!

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    That's only because they haven't seen the Trooper yet. :-)))
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    He he.

    The Trooper is too big for Brazil. There aren't any parking spots you could fit in, and remember gas costs a fortune there.

    There are several "Land Cruiser" models, and the ones popular in Brazil are the smaller ones, not the same as ours. Also, the "Pajero" label is used on several Mitsus, and again the smaller ones are more common.

    One more thing - diesels rule. It costs about HALF what gas costs so they are worth much, much more than their gas counterparts, and hold their value better as well.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah, outside the US Isuzu puts in a Turbo Diesel, better fuel milage! Heck the new GM pickups "Duramax 6600" is actually an Isuzu Engine :)

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Trooper performed outstandingly in the snow. I was able to push through 3'-3.5' snow banks and trapsed through 1.5-2' of deep snow w/o a problem this past weekend. I even made it up a buddy's 200' unplowed driveway at a 45 degree incline without too much trouble. The only time I got stuck was on a 3.5' snow bank that I stopped on. Never stop on that much snow!

    My new Hella 4000s are light daylight. Anyone with a forester who is putting on aux lights should consider them, they are huge, but wired into my high beams they make country driving extremely bearable!

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those are monster-torque engines, though, and Brazil's needs are very light-duty.

    As an example, consider that 2 seater car-based pickups are a big hit - and with 1000cc engines!

    Isuzu could sell the Rodeo (2 and 4 doors now) if they offered a 2.5l or so 4 banger diesel for the Brazilian market.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The rodeo does come with a 4 banger option, but it's kinda weak for a truck that heavy.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Diesel, though. Must be diesel or forget it.

    -juice
  • maikiimaikii Member Posts: 8
    Thanks to all the favorable postings on this board, I have just ordered my new Forester S Premium 5 Speed. I have several questions. Has anyone located a good source for seat covers to fit the Forester? Also, how about rubber floor mats? I don't think the dealer supplied mats are that great. Finally, does anyone know if the new financing applies to cars ordered or just the ones on the dealer's lot? BTW, I ordered my car from Fitzgerald in Clearwater, Florida and got a great price. Thanks in advance.
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