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Comments
Bob
I think it would have been cheaper for them just to crank out the same cars they have elsewhere in the world (4 Pot Brakes, 6 speed MT, 4Speed Auto-manual, HID)
-mike
The Mac debate: I'm another longtime (since '85; didn't own any computer in '84) Mac user -- but I am willing to confess that the Amiga was also just cool as heck in the mid-80s!
The HID lights and 4 pot brakes (which I understand are same as the current Imprezas, and therefore interchangable) should at least be options. I was definitely disappointed by the lack of the sem-auto manual that they get in Japan. At least it would be somewhat of a compromise for those who want a manual, but because of rush hour traffic would rather get an auto. Perhaps the cost of licensing the Tiptronic from Porsche for the N.American market was too much? Another thing that I would've liked to see is the sem-automatic climate control system, again, at least as an option.
The aluminum pedals look good, but I hope they have a lot of rubber traction pads. I found the ones in the IS300 (even thought they had the rubber pads) a little slippery, especially it started raining during the test drive and the base of my shoes got wet (I got out of the car and got back in just to test this).
Interesting that they use the Bridgestone RE32 tires. I thought those weren't particularly very good from the comments here, so I'm surprised that they added them to the WRX. Seems rather out of place for that car. Perhaps they figure that owners will immediately upgrade to the 17" BBS wheels that were mentioned?
Drew
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Chat:
Aside from sticking to the press release like a WRX on a twistie, Mr. Whelan responded too slowly to get through many questions in one hour. I had both the Auditorium window, and the chat window open, and it was mayhem in the Chat room. The i-clubbers came out of the woodwork, and were frustrated by questions as to price and hp, info which was available on the wrx site. But they can't seriously expect an official rep to cough up anything new at this point, can they? I mean, Patti would have been a better guest, IMHO, but I don't think even she would have strayed from the corporate line. Well, maybe a LEETLE more
p.s.
Paisan is a potty mouth in chat rooms! ;'))
As far as options down the road... I can't afford one this year or for the next 4 years, so, it's not that much of a concern, but It has to be cheaper to go with what is already rolling off the assembly lines rather than change it just for us. Also they could have saved $ on stuff like CD players, etc. and put it toward performance stuff since most audiophiles will just tear out the stereo and put in their own stuff!
-mike
Let's face it. For every autocrosser and true i Club fan, there are four outsiders that will buy it for the novelty and bragging rights. And for that majority, a CD changer and the styling cues are more important.
I like the HIDs, don't get me wrong. They even look better than the standard headlights, especially when they're on (Ken sent me a JDM video which shows WRXs in action - very cool).
4 pot brakes are available from the SPT catalog now, so I'm sure the enthusiasts will order them.
As for the chat, way too much static. I felt bad for Dana, who was flooded with too much nonsense to have time to find the intelligent questions.
-juice
Q. Will N. America get HID?
A. No.
Q. Will N. America get the Sport-shift automatic?
A. No.
Q. Will Subaru get involved with drag-racing or autocrossing?
A. No.
Q. Will we get an STi?
A. No plans at this time. If there is enough demand we could get it within two years.
I guess we shouldn't be surprised he was so tight-lipped about future plans. We'll probably be getting info from other sources on the web though.
Dennis
-mike
It's just too bad we weren't the focus group!
-juice
IMHO, I would love to have 4 potters. But seriously I can guarantee you most of the owners will hardly break a sweat out of the 2 pot brakes on daily drives let alone 4 pot brakes. So why waste the cost and over engineer something which will never be used to it potential anyways right? Unless you see the tracks or autoX your car the 2 pot brakes are more than enough on day to day driving. Besides, reviewers who drove the North American WRX said that the brakes are pwoerful.
My "other car" is an 89 Nissan 240 DX which has many of the same heavy duty parts as it's Japanese Sped counterpart with a romper stopper engine. The 240 has up until recently needed next to no repair and even routine maintenance items like brake pads and clutch are extremely long lived. At almost 12 years and 180 I, I'm more than a little happy that Nissan "Overbuild" my car.
By the way count me in as a die hard Amiga fan, even though I'm not using them any more, my two A 500's and my A 3000 still sit in the basement, I cant bear to part with them.
-mike
Sure all that missing performance stuff is disappointing - I'm especially disappointed by the lack of manumatic. But I'd have to agree more with Juice's and Lucien's opinions than Paisan's on this one. Probably some decontenting to keep the price down and satisfy most of the novelty crowd. The goodies will then be future options and/or SPT accessories - or maybe make up a future STi or RA model. The niche for a 4-pot, HID, 280hp, no power anything, no radio model a la Porsche's 911 Club Sport would be very small indeed (think SoA would sell 500 here?) but just imagine the halo effect.
Anyway, my $0.02. Dennis (bluesubie) - haven't forgotten you, my fellow Horryite. See you later offline.
Ed
Feel too, hope it's not spongy.
I didn't even see Mike there, was he?
As for skimping, yes, BMW and Audi skimp, big time! Vinyl seats. Stability control optional. Sports package is extra cost. Metallic paint and moonroof are too. Donuts on wagons.
Fine, they are upscale, but starting prices are very misleading because you'll spend several grand on options. Luxury car, luxury price.
Ed's onto something, though. I've always thought they should sell a lightened, de-contented performance version. Lose the entire stereo to save weight, give us the brakes and lights. Pure performance car, no frills. Could even drop the power windows and such.
-juice
Juice -- I also dislike that "metallic paint extra" option with some European cars. They often leave with no other choice unless you're into flat black or white.
Ken
Alot of stuff you want on bimmers are on packages which costs several grand more over base. And that includes a/c too. That is stupid!
For the price the WRX is way above it's competition. 330Xi and Audi whatever quattro. I like the basicness of the WRX. Keep the price down! If I want more stopping power, I'd go out and buy myself a set of Brembo brake kit. Heck, I don't even want a 17". I rather much prefer if they could just take the wheel and tires out since I have an extra set which i can use on the WRX.
Also I think Subaru's reliability is bullet proof. All their cars are over engineered to last long. Even to the basest of base models.
Bob
Bob
In any case, I was very disappointed. I didn't learn anything new. I was a spectator, not a participant—which is what I expected to be. I had many questions, none of which were answered. The responses were very slow in coming. Of that hour, we had maybe(?) 20 minutes of actual dialogue.
Bob
A. No.
That is incorrect. Subaru of America does in fact pay contingency money for autocross, they have paid out at the conclusion of the last two Solo2 nationals (and provided the courtesy cars for them). I don't know the amount paid out, but I do know that they subjectively determine the payout with the highest placing Subarus getting the most. I know someone that placed 29th in GS and I believe he got $25 to $50.
Subaru of America also pays contingency money for SCCA ProRally, Patrick Richard wins quite a lot of it.
-Colin
Dennis
I'll go on record again: I want to keep my Forester for at least 5 years, maybe longer. After that, I'd really be interested in a Legacy GT wagon with manumatic and either H6 or WRX turbo H4, but not with the current 2.5. On the other hand, if my phony stock options are ever worth anything maybe I'll keep the Forester and spring for a WRX sedan, hopefully with manumatic by that time. Make mine SWRT blue or black. Stuff the IPO Beemers.
I've got a wheels question; I'll hop over to Modifications for that.
Ed
I wouldn't be surprised to see the more up-market Legacy GT get the sport-shift and VDC in the future.
Bob
Ed
Bob
Just curious.
-Colin
Bob tows, that may be one reason. A turbo won't be ideal for towing, even though it's rated to.
Nice surprises on the WRX? I liked the following:
* aluminum alloy hood that opens wide
* 20/27 mpg - meets my 20+mpg idealistic pledge
* it's an LEV! Save the earth!
* 4th and 5th gear are overdrive
* wagon's seats fold flat
* thousands $$$ cheaper than I expected
* liquid filled suspension bushings
* isofix and tethers, all the safety stuff
It ain't perfect:
* requires 91 octane
* wagon is heavier than my Forester!
* 130mph limit means we don't know what it'll do
* donut spare
* single cup holder in dash - and the dual fits!
Still, a minor complaint list. The 4 pots and other stuff can easily be added given the lower than expected cost, so those aren't really negatives.
-juice
1) I tow
2) I live in NYC, Try driving a stick when you move 1 block per hour in rush hour traffic.
3) It's nice to let others drive your car on trips
-mike
Ed
I noticed the tow rating is up from 1500# to 2000#. I'm assuming they still have the brake/unbraked trailer clause??
Bob
Also, no need to worry about cold weather shifts and other manual problems (I know, I know it's not what driving is about, etc. :-) ).
Bob - no moonroof on the WRX.
Dennis
Ken
"This is an amazingly capable car, holding its composure in all sorts of maneuvers. It feels agile and nimble, with body motions that are well controlled and predictable. ... "
"I enjoyed zipping off from a stoplight and leaving BMWs in my wake. You could almost hear the other drivers thinking, ‘I paid how much for this car and just got beat by a Subaru?’ ... "
"Riders do hear the engine at work a lot of the time. It’s part of the rally experience, after all, but makes for a noisy ride inside. I also noticed a tendency for the WRX to take big road bumps with a loud, harsh thump. ... "
"Visibility is good, with a low hood and window pillars that aren’t big and blocky. The manual driver seat height adjuster is nifty — you lift or lower yourself by pumping up or down with a good-sized lever. Steering is crisp and responsive. ... "
"The brake, accelerator and clutch pedals in the WRX are sporty looking, too. They are fitted with silver-colored, alloy pedal covers with rubber grips. As expected, the front bucket seats are very supportive, and good bolsters help hold the driver in place. ..."
"The WRX trunk, however, is eminently usable and has a wide opening. But the trunk lid sounds a bit tinny when you close the trunk, and I noticed on the test car that the remote keyless entry didn’t include a button for opening the trunk. ..."
"Subaru said it looks for sales of 10,000 WRX models annually. Buyers are expected to be mostly men, with professional jobs who are ‘‘outdoor active and culturally involved. ...’’
Also, try to keep in mind that we are seeking improvements and additions (4 pot brakes). We are trying to get the car out there. Then, we can move ahead. STi can be brought in, but there is no sense in holding up the car until negotiations get rolling. Also, demand will tell us a lot, along with forums like this one. Yes, Subaru does use focus groups, but we have also been listening to what folks like you say. So, as they say. . it ain't over 'til.....
If Subaru does agree to do this again, I'm sure you will be pleased with the improvements. Little steps always work in the beginning.
I've taken your questions from here (car weights, etc.) and I'll see if I can get some answers for you later today.
See/chat with you later!
Patti
FWIW, there is a huge thread on i-club clamoring for the HID cluster.
Thanks again for your partcipation here, too!!
-mike
Autos are fine on regular cars, but this is a very unique performance machine. It would almost be sad for it's primary duty to be commuting in bumper-to-bumper traffic. What a waste!
Bob: no moonroof is mentioned on the web page. But the tow rating did not include the trailer brake restriction - so they're listening.
Ken: the bad news with the weight is that the 2003 Forester is likely to bulk up. The Legacy/Outback did in 2000, now the Impreza, ...
It's a shame. The nimbleness of the Forester is the main reason I bought it. Hope it still handles.
The HIDs even make the front end look better. The big question is cost - would you be willing to spend $500 (what Audi charges) for them? Perhaps it should be optional, to keep the base price low.
FWIW, you can get the Hella H4+30 bulbs for $26 delivered. I think the Phillips bulbs are under $40 as well. So you'd get about half the benefit for less than 1/10th the cost.
-juice
$500? Hell yeah, when I am buying a new car over 48 or 60 months, what does $500 come out to? $10 a month?
-mike
-mike
Fair enough on the monthly, but looked at another way, with interest you'll end up paying $700 for lights. Sounds kind of high to me.
I'd spend that kind of money on LASIK (I probably will, soon). If your night vision is that bad, you need it too!
-juice
-mike
Don't laugh - they work like a charm in air craft.
-juice
-mike
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