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Comments
One other thought, in a few more years NAVs are going to become commonplace and any vehicle that doesn't have one is going to be considered lacking (something to consider when it comes time to sell).
-Frank (who still relies on old fashion sense of direction and the occasional map) :shades:
Another thing to consider is that more and more in-dash units are (or soon will be) offering traffic and weather alerts, Bluetooth hands-free phone capability, mucho-gigabyte music storage, as well as other value-added features. OnStar, for example will be offering some nifty new features shortly.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4604
BMW will soon be offering Internet access on their NAV unit. Others are sure to follow.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4574
Ford trucks are offering vehicle tracking for businesses.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4280
Here's Ford's Travel Link.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4027
In-dash NAV units will soon be multi-functional in ways we've never thought about before, thus making the "NAV" part just one aspect.
The Forester's NAV offers an optional Bluetooth right now (yes, making it even more expensive).
Bob
-Frank
He could always wait a year, and maybe even get a Forester with a CVT by then?
Bob
tom
I suppose it was just a matter of time before the internet invaded the automobile.
tom
Jim
I've been lucky too. I take the unit off the dash but leave the mount there, along with my radar detector mount, and park in Harlem!
-mike
Out here in-dash OEM units are a significantly higher target than portables, because they bring more $$$ when sold to parts places.
-mike
I used to go on walmart.com and download their trailers for the purchase of the full song as my ring tones. Not sure if they still are available but they make great ring-tones for free.
-mike
No good financing deals out there where you could earn more money by financing than by paying in cash? When I bought my Armada I got $3500 off invoice + 0.9% financing and even if I could pay for it in cash it wouldn't have been worth it.
-mike
The Garmins do all that already. The Nuvi 680 does Traffic, Weather, Blue-tooth, Memory Cards for your MP3s, and the upcoming units will also do voice recognition for controlling it.
With that said, when they offer a good deal on the 08 Armada (4000 cash + 1.9% financing) I will be trading in my 04 and getting the full navi package for the integration as you said, there is something about a fully integrated unit that you can't put a price on.
-mike
BINGO! You can debate the cost vs value and portability benefits until the cows come home, but when push-comes-to-shove, there's just something about a built-in NAV unit that's so much nicer than the portable alternatives.
Having said that, I do hope (and expect) that the interest in portable units will eventually force the vehicle makers to bring the price of the in-dash units down. They're a cash cow now, but that can't last forever.
Bob
Portables are also good if you have to travel and rent cars and don't want to rent a GPS from the rental car company.
An advantage of the built in Nav is that it has dead reckoning- if it loses it's satellite signal it uses the odometer and compass to estimate where you are until it regains reception.
If you drive downtown around high buildings or in valleys with a lot of trees it can make a difference.
Built in units also tend to have larger screens which are nice. But some of them are quite annoying to use and not as user friendly as the portables.
I think even if I had built in navs in all my cars I would still have one portable unit as well for business trips.
tom
It' still a bit small, the screen that is, but still not a bad compromise. This for the Frontier and Xterra.
I still prefer the larger 7" screen on the Subie unit.
Bob
I am still not convinced of their benefit. I rely on awareness of the area, a brief glance at a road map and old fashioned common sense to find my way around. I travelled Europe for many years, relying on a large scale road map of the country and the Michelin red guide for the country, which has city center maps. In Melbourne, we are probably spoilt, having the world's best street directory (Melways) which is drawn to precision survey standards.
One concern for me is the unfailing reliance on NAV units removing that awareness. I recently found myself in a cab where the driver could not find his way between two major landmarks in the CBD area. I ended up having to direct him asa the SAT NAV could not cope with normal city traffic flows.
My job frequently takes me to unfamiliar area and I scan the maps, getting an overall feel for the area before starting my trip. That is often important to understand the traffic flows, connecting points and establishing an efficient run of visits which is not always possible with a SATNAV. That said, some of my colleagues swear by them.
Yes, I know I am a Luddite!
Cheers
Graham
As for the factory NAV, the big screen would be nice, absolutely. That would be the prime reason to get it.
But...it just doesn't seem like the one in the Forester is very advanced. No traffic capability, no backup cam, no movie times, no gas prices. Those are all things I'd expect at that price level. So it's not just the high price, it's also a total lack of any high-end features.
Another issue - the Tribeca would not let the front seat passenger enter a destination while the car was in motion. You have to pull over and stop the car, put it in Park. That's annoying. Smart systems could detect the presence of a front seat passenger and disable that "safe mode".
This is quite often. In fact just about all the time, I'd say. Almost every destination we enter is once we're already on the go.
And remember, that GPS will seem like old tech by the time we sell it. Options like that actually depreciate faster than the vehicle does, by a wide margin. Ask anyone with analog OnStar, or an 8 year old cell phone.
You'll find short cuts you didn't know were there. Find curvy roads in the vicinity. :shades:
The points-of-interest database is priceless. As an example, we have a Shell gas card that gives us 5% back. So we search not only for gas, but for Shell gas specifically. The GPS will find the nearest ones, sort by distance, then display the location on a map.
It's more than just the maps, it's a co-pilot, a compass, a tour guide, and, when you start using the POI databases, a whole lot more.
I use the basic map feature to alert me of an upcoming turn or landmark. The backup camera is great and for that alone adding it to the LEASE was worth it. I can parallel park in tight spaces w/o any problems.
Would I buy Nav built in w/o a camera again -NOOOOOO.
If the Forester does not have a camera then the nav is not worth it for any price - especially if it is like the Tribeca's
The Impreza and Forester use a different system, but from the same manufacturer. I doubt it's much different, though.
The Garmin updates do come cheaper and more regularly.
I guess I also worry about an $1800 in-dash unit being rendered obsolete in some way down the road, like the GUI or the display itself. Like a digital version of 8-track or something.
I wonder if you can use it to find a pit stop on a road trip, for instance. To look for food or gas.
Subaru could address this, somewhat, if it were voice activated, hands-free.
They have a passenger sensor to enable and disable the air bag, why not use the same sensor to turn the Safe Mode off? :confuse:
The nav is optional - why can't subaru offer a better system???
I guess no harm in test driving one.
The no-destination-entry-while-on-the-go could be a deal killer, though.
Odd, I drive in downtown manhattan, mid-town and next to really tall buildings, and never lose reception, except when on the lower level of a bridge or a tunnel.
As for pre-programing, only some of the removable ones can you actually plan a route. What I've become acustomed to do is basically print out a list of addresses of where I'll be heading on a trip and spend about 10 min before my trip plugging em into the address book of the rental car or my own GPS unit. Seems to work well for me.
-mike
-mike
I bet yours has the newer technlogy? SIRF II or something like that?
Great warranty, decent power, a bit smaller than the OBS. I found the interior to be a bit basic, but it's OK for the price.
Perhaps the problem is in that segment people want fuel economy first and foremost, and it gets killed by the Fit and Yaris.
Mark
-Dave
Here in Seattle I will be in valleys with lots of tall trees and will lose reception temporarily. It's pretty common Mike.
tom
We got tall trees here too.... the concrete kind
-Dave
Bob
-Frank
then we can "drop a pin" and type in a destination .. it will give us a map .. which we can zoom in and out with our fingertips .. and also click a button that will give us step by step directions ... why do I need a GPS?
I also went to hotels.com on the iPhone and it gave me webpages that were formatted for the iPhone ... I could look up availability of hotels on our route ... even if I went to another website that is NOT formatted for the iPhone, I can still zoom in and out so that I can view it on the screen .. pretty cool
Hee hee. Well I haven't looked that far into it yet, but MPG is higher than the OBS, HP on a commuter isn't a concern, nor cargo. I most likely wouldn't get it but I was quite suprised to see the features it has, pretty much toe-to-toe with an OBS, except for power, but the price/financing is tough to beat.
This is also another shining example of what Bob and I keep saying about the Subaru DNA, the SX4 Crossover has all the elements of an OBS, but without the full-time 4wd and boxer engine, it's just another car. If the OBS went to a straight 4 and FWD or part-time AWD, it would be just another SX4 Crossover....
-mike
Do you have to insert the map DVD and remove any CD that's in there to navigate? That's getting too inconvenient.
I'll have to try it out, I guess. I still see a lot of trade-offs:
* very expensive
* update DVDs less frequent than Garmin's, and also pricey
* cannot enter routes while driving even w/passenger to do so
* lose CD changer for a single CD
* one slot for map DVD and music CDs (?) not sure about this
Pros?
* big screen
* integrated, no easy smash-and-run thefts
* upgraded sound system (supposedly)
Did I miss anything? :confuse:
Bob
SX4 has a tiny 11-gal tank for a 300-mile range, compared to 450 miles for Impreza. You'd make 33% fewer stops at the gas station w/the Subie.
Competition is healthy, and it improves the breed.
left that afternoon with 3 other teachers for a weekend class in Springfield IL .. round trip it was about 500 miles ... got in on Sunday, April 6 ..
left on Monday morning April 7 to drive to Texas to see about my mother ... we went over 2400 miles between Monday morning and Sunday afternoon...
went in the Outback and it ran like a champ ... I know the newer ones have some nice features .. but MINE IS ALL PAID FOR ...
:shades:
Sounds like a nice and relaxing way to spend your break
Mark
she told us that she thought she'd never walk again and that she'd give anything to be able to get up and walk .. however, she can move and control her legs to move up and down and side to side ... when we asked why she thought she'd never walk again .. her reply was, "because they haven't told me I will!" ...
she makes lots of excuses and is just too 'exhausted' or 'in pain' to do much ... she complains that she can't use her hands and they are useless ...although she "exercises" her fingers often ... bending them .. moving them .. touching each one with her thumb .. and is able to feed herself, help dress herself .. etc ...
it's just a matter of time and her will to get well ...
in the meantime, my dad makes statements like .. "she has to get well by the 28th because that's when we start going broke' ....
oh ... boy ....
talked with my brother yesterday afternoon .. he's near them ... he said she actually looked and acted more "perky" while we were there ... we saw her looking a bit more tired on Friday morning, but I attributed it more to the fact that they had exercised her a bit harder during PT that morning ...
it's .... depressing ... discouraging ... with the daughter and grandsons living with us and all the health issues with both our mothers this year ... we're really understanding the "sandwich generation" ...
(sorry .. I'll try to be more upbeat with my next post)
SX4 has a tiny 11-gal tank for a 300-mile range, compared to 450 miles for Impreza. You'd make 33% fewer stops at the gas station w/the Subie.
Well it's a $1500 difference in msrp, but my guess is that the actual selling price on the sx4 crossover loaded will be about 15k out the door, and combine that with 0% financing for 60 months and you are significantly lower than the monthly on the impreza. I think though I just found a 96 Brighton 5mt w/awd for 1600 that I'll use as a commuter
-mike