Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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Comments

  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I agree! I do go off paved roads quite a bit, but a low range has never been needed or desired. Actually, one of the reasons I chose the automatic was to handle relatively steep or difficult conditions. The extra weight and expense would be a negative to me.

    Ross
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I've used 4wd lo in 2 situations on my Trooper and my previous rodeo, both were not off-roading.

    1) Pushing a trailer up a 45 degree incline in reverse gear both my trooper and my rodeo came to a stop when pushing my 3500lb boat trailer in reverse up a very steep incline. I attribute this to the reverse gearing, not the 4wd system.

    2) Pulling a heavy dock out of the water a few weeks ago with the trooper in reverse. Same problem, it cam to a halt. I think this was due to the reverse gearing as well, cause I flipped it around and didn't have a problem. Tried again in 4wd lo in reverse and didn't have a problem there.

    Other than those 2 situations which involved reverse, I've never needed to use 4wd lo on either of my trucks. The few times I got stuck in snow with them, 4wd lo did nothing to help the situation.

    -mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I don't tow a boat. Can't afford it, except for the kind that you could stow in the back and inflat (don't need 4low for that). I thought it would be a "nice to have" for like steep climbs or descends (on not too great days).

    Off-road adventure(s) - I would love another opportunity in a M113 to tackle places like the Rubicon, but a one-horse-power 4wd kind would do just fine.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I could've used a low range for the OBX trip and for the recent towing I've done, even though I managed both times without it.

    I would not put it number one on my priority list, though. A 5 speed automatic would definitely come first, as would a more powerful engine.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Aren't known for their trailering abilities. In fact in the old days (70s and 80s) ATs generally towed 500-700lbs less than the same make/model with AT.

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Juice- In both instances an auto transmission (shudder the thought) would have been better suited for the task than your manual. Neither case required low range gearing.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree - but I wonder how the taller 1st gear would have performed. In both cases a shorter gear would have been helpful to me. Hence a 5 speed auto or low range would still be useful.

    But never mind all that - I would like to see better towing capacity, not just class I. So give us a 5 speed auto with a tranny cooler and beefy brakes, for class II towing.

    A low range would then be gravy!

    -juice

    PS I'll miss the chat tomorrow night - we're going to Disney World!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I would love to see a tow rating of 4000 lbs, and not just a 3500 lb. Class II rating.

    Why 4000? That would make it Class III, and would then require the larger (beefier), Class III tow hitch receiver, like the one I have on my Explorer.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Does size matter? ;-)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    never hurts. ;-{)

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Why does everyone always say Rubicon Train when you mention off-roading? Is that the only type of off-roading there is? :p I do more off-roading than 90% of SUV owners. Btw, I've seen a few Cherokees and GC's stuck in the sand at Island Beach State Park, NJ so it's not only about approach/departure angles. Two even got stuck at the entrance.:-)

    If paisan's web page was working, I would post a link to off-roading RS's and me. Mike, if I went down that steep hill in the Pine Barrens a lo-range would've come in handy (the one where you, me and the All-Trac went up). OTOH like Frank and Ross mentioned, an auto is probably better in situations like that. So for manuals, a lo-range would be helpful.
    Here are some off-roading OB's:
    http://www.toad.net/~rrubel/outaction.html

    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Damn T-storm re-set my PC and I wasn't home to restart it last night.

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Dennis- The Rubicon Trail is just an excellent example of someplace where you really do need 4-Low. And yes, the vast majority of SUV drivers never come close to doing that type of off-roading. Which is actually my point, why should Subaru go to the expense of offering a dual-range tranny when almost "no one" would use it?

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, so give us 6 speed manuals and 5 speed autos instead of a Subaru-style low range. It's basically the same thing, really, but more useful. Closer ratios mean better acceleration, better towing, better hill climbing, and a taller overdrive gear means better highway mileage.

    A higher first gear would be good for steep hills/dunes, whether you're going up or down. Better approach/departure angles would come in handy for these situations too.

    Subie owners do tow. Lots of people come and ask if Outbacks can tow their trailers that are just a tad over the current limits. I tow, Bob tows, Hutch tows, and the photo above shows an Outback at the beach with a trailer (behind his dual-range Aussie model). I think it would be even more common if the limits were higher.

    Bottom line is the AWD system is so capable, that people wish the rest of the vehicle (clearances, approach and departure angles, break over angle, and gearing) were as well suited to the rough stuff.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Subaru offers the dual-range transmission in other markets partly due to the smaller engines offered in those models. For example, the base engine in the Forester overseas is the 2.0 N/A motor. The other reason why they don't bring it to the US is cost.

    I'm with juice. Give me a 6-speed manual tranny with a tad lower 1st gear and I'm all set.

    Ken
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I forgot about that, Ken. The new RV (Aussie OBS) will also get the 2.0.
    Ok, I'm with juice too. Bring over the 6-speeds, build some 5EAT's and don't forget the sport-shifter!
    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Folks, let's get something straight here...

    It's not the 2.5l boxer engine nor the tranny that is the reason for such a low towing capacity. It's the brakes, and chassis.

    -mike
  • royallenroyallen Member Posts: 227
    Since heavier trailers should have their own brakes, why would tow vehicle brakes determine the tow weight limit? It seems to me power is a more important consideration at the weight limit (plus transmission cooling to safely transmit the power).
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You generally are supposed to only tow about 85-90% of the weight of your vehicle to safetly keep it behind your vehicle, when using a non-weight distributing hitch. Also the chassis strength and springs/shocks also are more of a determining factor than the engine power. Once you are rolling, it doesn't take much to keep a trailer rolling, it's the control of that power which is a combination of tow vehicle weight, suspension, weight distribution, tire-size, tire weight capacities, wheel-base, shocks, springs, brake sizes, cooling of transmission, and lastly engine power. Ask anyone who tows 2000lb+ trailers and they'll first ask the tow vehicles weight, and weight capacity before even asking what engine it has. For instance, my uncle has ~94 F250 with a V6 engine. He tows regularly a 25' campter trailer w/o a problem. The trucks chassis can handle the trailer along with weight distributing hitch. Does he have problems on hills, sometimes, usually dropping to 45-50mph, but over all he has good control of the trailer.

    -mike
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    My Australian spec 99 OB has a Dual Range transmission. Low ratio is only about 20% below normal but this provides significant extra grunt for pulling trailer away from a dead stop. I tend to use it mostly for towing. Probably used less than 1% of the time.

    It probably got its heaviest workout this last weekend in entirely mundane suburban setting, believe it or not at the four year old's kindergarten. One guy turned up with a large trailer which was filled to brim with logs to go to the tip (probably dump to you guys)

    His wife went into labour half way through leaving me to haul the trailer home to his house a kilometre away. It had to be manouevered onto his lawn over kerbs and past trees. I have no idea of the weight but it was seriously heavy and I would not want to tow it at highway speed. The dual range and self levelling rear end really came into their own though as I had no problem hauling it or backing it.

    Realistically, the Outback is a very good road car with light off road capability. What you interpret as light off road is very much a personal perception. I grew up in the bush and think of light off road as "Car does not fall down ravine" and you can wade through the mud without a hovercraft. For others, the same phrase means "Bitumen is cracked". I can recall amusing responses when explaining that my Toyota Corolla Twin Cam almost floated away on river crossings on our honeymoon. For us, that seemed normal. In urban England, the presumption was that I was subjecting my wife to horrendous danger.

    The dual range is useful for my sort of driving and very good for anyone towing a serious load. It is used in most non-US markets but guess it is just not fitted in the US for cos reasons. Beats me why given the tooling cost has to have been well amortized and mraginal cost of manufacture has to be minimal.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    paisan - In my posts, I was referring to engine size in relation to dual-range not towing.

    IMO, our best chance of getting it will be in the ST-X.

    Thanks for the info and story Graham.
    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The last post I made was directed at Roy who said that more power was needed for towing, which is probably not the case. I do see your point on a 5-speed of having some low gears, I'm so used to driving a slush box off-road which seems to be a bit better w/o having the low range.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Gotcha.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Your Outback is a 2.5L isn't it? I'm pretty certain the 2.5L is also offered with a dual-range tranny, at least in 5-speed Outback models.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, what I find interesting is that the Forester S has better brakes (rear discs) and tires with a higher load rating than the plain L model, so it would seem to be ready for higher towing capacity.

    The hitch itself bolts on with 7 very sturdy bolts, right to the frame. Some non-OE hitches use as few as four bolts.

    So it seems the frame and brakes, at least on the S model, are ready for more.

    The next Forester will inevitably gain weight, so I could imagine a 3500 lb trailer would be about the upper limit for it.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    "6 speed manuals and 5 speed autos" are exactly the direction that Subaru needs to go. Mike brought up an interesting point though about towing. If vehicle weight is one of the major determining factors for how much can safely be towed (and that certainly makes sense), then I'm totally against porking out the Forester just so it can get a higher trailer rating.

    -Frank P.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Bob, you're right. This is from SoAus.'s web page:
    "The Outback and Outback Limited are powered by a 2.5-litre engine that produces 115kW of power at 5600rpm and 223Nm of torque at 3600rpm. .. The dual-range five-speed manual has a choice of high or low ratios. For everyday the high ratio will suffice, but when the going gets tough you can switch to the low range"
    Dennis
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Yes, my Outback is a 2.5l with dual Range. i can't see that a six speed would actually do that much given that the Subaru engine is so flexible. They only really work with engines with narrow power bands.

    Now an off topic query. My 4 yo (the future tech-head) has changed some setting in Internet Explorer so that every window after the first one opens minimized. I am not sure whether to be impressed or irritated. Does anyone know how I can get the subsidiary windows to open at normal size?

    Cheers

    Graham
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    I'm nowhere near an expert, but if you maximize the little windows, then close them from the maximized size, they may open large the next time.
    Works for me at work... but that's Windows NT... wierd within itself!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image

    ...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
    http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html



    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Anyone know where to find the part # on my GTs rims?

    bit
  • sibbaldsibbald Member Posts: 106
    Graham, it is time I told you how much I enjoy your stories about Australia and your driving experiences. Don't let it go to your head and keep the stories coming.

    Cheers, Tom
  • kameelekameele Member Posts: 29
    I've transcribed this letter to the editor from the Wakefield (MA) Daily Item on May 30. I thought it would be worthwhile to pass along. I tried scanning it in, but the newsprint was too thin. Anyway, here it is.

    The car that saved a life

    On Monday, May 14, my daughter was involved in a horrific crash on her way home from work when a car traveling north in the south-bound lane of Route 128 slammed into her Subaru head-on.

    Scott Scimeni of Subaru of Wakefield had promised us a safe, reliable, and sturdy vehicle when we purchased that car and it certainly lived up 110 percent to that promise. Her seat belt with shoulder strap, functional air bag, and the fact that the Subaru Legacy was able to stand up under a crushing high speed impact without collapsing into the interior of the vehicle allowed her to survive. Thank you Scott and Subaru of Wakefield for your honesty, integrity, and quality of product.

    Sincerely,

    Bob MacDougall

    Not that the dealer does much about the quality, but I guess you can compliment them on having the sense to sell a great car.

    Kevin

    PS I don't think I'll be able to make it to chat tonight. hope to sit in again next week.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I had to go to BWI airport last night to pick up some family members who were coming to my daughter graduate from high school, which is tonight. As I got to the gate where the incoming flight was to arrive—there was JUICE and his family!

    They were headed to Disney World, and were taking the same plane that my family members were getting off of.

    Thought I was in the Twilight Zone for a while there...

    Bob
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    once again for missing the chat last night. Kiddie priorities.

    -Greg
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    I hope you convinced Juice to drive his Subaru to Orlando instead of flying? I bet he would arrive faster in his Sandy :-)

    my personal record is getting from Orlando to Philly in 1 day (loooong drive though)
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    of folks who should now be doing penance for missing the chat... finally finished getting my Dad moved into new digs yesterday... BBQ steak & a couple extra beers took priority!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    For those of you who did miss the chats, I have some good news. Soon we will be providing chat transcipts so that those of you who can't make it will be able to have a look at the discussions at a later date. But, we still hope to chat with you live :-)


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Called my dealer to get a price on an alloy wheel for my GT to use as a spare... $233! Yow. Can't wait for Darlene to get back in biz. Wish I had a part # so I could try SubaruParts.com

    bit
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    bit - if it isn't any trouble, you could walk up to any dealer service parts dept. and look it up in their parts catalog.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Being someone who worked 20 years in Dealer Parts Depts., we never let people look up their own parts. I wouldn't give people the part numbers either, because it took money out of my pocket to do so. Most parts counters today use microfiche or Electronic Parts Catalogs (computers) to look them up. It does take a familiarity to each manufacturer's system to find the correct Part Numbers. I currently work at a manufacturer's help line to help our parts people figure out all the ins and outs of our catalogs.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    the catalog was readily availed to me when I'd asked during my last visit for oil change. They even helped me find the item, Forester S wheel. Then, I only wanted to know the offset (+48mm) and the part numbers are all there to be had. Sorry bit, didn't take notes.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Each dealer is different.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    you won't by any chance be able to pull a little string to help bit out?
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    email Ryan Cavalier at Irvine Subaru -- scoobyparts@hotmaill.com

    he will tell you the part number and the price. you could then punch the part number into subaruparts.com's online pn lookup and price compare-- I've done this myself. I bought more parts from Ryan though.

    (he probably won't reply until next week, natch.)

    -Colin
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Thanks. Emailed Ryan.

    bit
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I'm not affiliated with Subaru, I just own one.
  • tazerelitazereli Member Posts: 241
    am wondering if having owned a subaru in the past qualifies me to post here. I love the cars and miss the one i did have (1984 GL 4x4 wagon in cosmic blue, as if anyone would remember that color). Just taking about these cars makes me happy. after my current loan is up its a WRX wagon in WRC blue for me. Does anyone know if Subaru will offer a moonroof or sunroof for next year? Anyway I hope that i am welcome here so i look forward to posting with all of you
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    24hrs from NYC->Fort Lauderdale.

    Currently I'm in Ann Arbor, MI. Made it out from Allentown, PA to Ann Arbor in 8hrs flat. We watched office space, and 4 episodes of the sopranos on the way out! Then today drove out to grand rapids michigan and back.

    I like the 70mph speed limit. I cruised at 82mph the whole day. And coming across PA did one stretch @ 90+ with the cruise control on. Ohio though is full of cops so no more than 10mph over the limit there.

    -mike
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