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Dodge Dakota - General Topic
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This question can't be answered by the dealers. The club cabs have a California 4.7L v-8 engine that has a much less GVWR(5,350lbs) than the same truck with a v-6(6,010lbs) The curb weight is just a tad higher(70 lbs), so payload is reduced dramatically. I live in New England and only have seen the California 4.7L v-8s in the Club Cab.
Question is...why is the GVWR so much lower in the v-8 Clubs compared to the v-6s...and why do just the Club Cabs have the California engine?
Please help me out here, No one seems to have an answer.
There are several other states that have jumped on the bandwagon by passing laws which mandate that the CARB equiped vehiceles are sold in their states. (VT, NH, NY... 5 in total) Unfortunatly, the special GASOLINE formulatoin that california mandates is NOT available in those 5 states.
This is NOT based on being a "club cab" ... it is based on the laws in the state where you live.
As for the GVWR... I havent a clue.
730lbs less payload is a substantial difference if I get the 4.7L v-8 engine in MA compared to the v-6.
In regards to the club cabs, they are the only body type that have the lower GVWR and on the Dodge web site under "towing guide", it lists the engine as "Californis engine". No Cal. engine listed with the regular or Quad cab in the 4.7L v-8. Strange....and not a misprint, as the window stickers state the same.
Bottom line, If I want the 4.7L v-8 Club Cab in MA, the payload is reduced by 730 lbs..5,350 opposed to 6,010. Makes the decision to get the v-8 (which I really wanted)much tougher as I lose 730lbs in payload(which I MIGHT need).
In 2000, only specific vehicles that were delivered to certain states had the tripple cats. (Like my VERY early 2000 delivered to Vermont in late 1999) The "Border states emmissions package" was manditory for me to add to my order. (at no charge to me)
I called Dodge customer service and an engineer was supposed to get back to me in 24 hours...but no response.
Any guesses out there?
I wonder, what about a Club Cab with the trailer towing option? Does that raise the GVW?
But...we know the engine is more than adequate for 6000 lbs plus in a Dakota. As for the 545RFE transmission, it's the same unit put in 4x4 RAMs with trailer towing and plenty durable. The 9.25 axle is more than adequate also.
The two things I don't have an immediate answer for would be the brakes and springs. They might add more swept area to the higher GVW rating, and it would surprise me if a correctly equiped Dakota got heavty rear springs with 6000 GVW and up. You might also get a three-row core radiator, I don't know.
But to answer your immediate question, I don't have a clue why this is so. I live in New York, so everything under a certain GVW gets the California emmisions package.
By the way, I have carried around 1500 pounds in the bed on one occasion. That dropped the back around 2 inches or there abouts. With the ATV, tools, shovels, chainsaws, etc. (about 800 lbs., nothing really happens much. I might drop about 1 inch max.
Regards,
Dusty
Do you know why just the club cabs get this 287 engine? On the Dodge site under towing guide, the club cub is the only body type that has the "California engine" as an option. Unfortunately, in MA, that's the only engine I can get. So, 700 lbs less in payload for the clubs with 4-8s......and no one has an answer for this.
I called customer service and was told an engineer would be getting back to me within 48 hours....did not happen. It appears no one has an answwr or wants to give it..
The person at Chrysler that you talked to probably hasn't gotten an answer, either!
Regards,
Dusty
When I was looking at 2003 Rams before I actually purchased mine I looked at a 4x4 off road package Ram that was actually built in September 2002. This truck was $1,700+ less than than a truck with identical options that had just recently been delivered. I asked the sale manager about the discrepancy in prices and he related Dodge had had 8 prices increases up to that point in the 2003 model year.
I noticed a similar escalation in prices in the Dakotas on the lot as well. I actually started shopping for a Dakota Quad cab however I only needed a 2wd and everything on the lots around here were 4x4s.
I wonder how people continue to be able to afford new vehicles. If it weren't for the almost $9,000 discount off of the 2003 I purchased it would never have fit into my budget.
A guy I work with just bought a new Chevy Tahoe for his wife that had a window price of $45,000+. I don't know what he actually paid for the Tahoe but I'm sure it was still more than his gross annual salary of $33,000. Sooner or later all these price increases will have to make these vehicles unaffordable to the majority of the consumers, then what happens to the economy? Oh well, the forum has been awful slow lately, maybe this will fire up some activity. Rick
Bookitty
Anyway, he's taken a shine to my Dakota and we went around last week looking for a used one. He was hoping to find a nice clean '00 or '01, but the used Dakota inventory is pretty scarce around here. We stopped at seven dealerships and only found 4 candidates. There are actually more at used independent dealers, but none in the year range or with the right equipment. Out of the 513 used trucks listed in the last Auto Trader, only 11 were Dakotas, and some of them are 70 miles away.
How plentiful are used Dakotas in your areas?
Regards,
Dusty
Figuring in that a new one will last at least as many years longer as a used one is old.... (In otherwords, amortizing the value of a used one against a new one) The Dakotas really hold their value well. (if you can find a used one at all)
It just made sense for me to purchase a new one. It was fully paied off this past spring and I expect at least 10 more years of payment-free ownership 8-)
Independents were better. We looked at a few that were in very good apparent condition, but with high mileage. We did drive a '97 that was very tight, but manual transmission.
We did see two Quad cabs, but out of the 10 samples only one Club Cab and that was a 4x4. He didn't want it.
So, my friend is going to continue to look and hope something nice comes up. He doesn't need a truck just yet, and he just poured a bit of money into his Chevy so hopefully it will last through winter.
Dusty
That is a vehicle best MPG at 16538 miles.
Yesterday my trip to the property on the same highway all the way to Corning and back netted 18.69. That's with about 1000 pound load (ATV, chainsaws, etc.). That also included 38 miles of around town driving. It was not the best MPG outing for that drive, but I was bucking very high headwinds on the southbound leg.
Regards,
Dusty
I am wanting the Dakota V6 for some light hauling(standard home improvement projects) and some light towing(small bass-fishing boat). I live in central Illinois, where the winter weather usually gets bad a few times a year. I could see myself making use of the 4 wheel drive some, but I don't know if it would really be worth the $2000-$3000 extra over the RWD.
Can some of you Dakota owners give me some advice before I head to the dealer to start looking at trucks? Thanks!
With RWD the MPG is is better, the ride is smoother, there are less wear-n-tear moving parts.
Here in Vermont, I have more than an occasional opertunity to use 4X4. At least a full month a year I am locked into 4X4. I also know that the RESALE VALUE of a 4X4 retains the initial xtra cost of the 4X4. So I hav more need and less to loose by getting 4X4.
I do traverse some unmaintained roads in the winter since I own property near the border of Pennsylvania. During hunting season I have my 650 pound ATV in the back and it is almost like having a 4-wheel drive
Almost. There could be situations where my combination would fail me that only a 4-wheel drive would be truly helpful. But I am careful, even when I'm on the property where there are no roads at all. But 2WD is cheaper, for most people will get better gas mileage, and has less mechanicals to maintain or require service. It really depends on your desire, however. You do not need to "justify" a 4WD just because for others it they don't deem it practical.
My only other comment would be to consider the 4.7 V-8 engine. I believe that you will probably get better gas mileage from the V-6 than you would the 4.7. However, depending on your style of driving the difference may not be much or not all at.
In defense of the 3.9 motor, for a six I think it has plenty of torque and power. I've driven several in regular cab, and one extended cab and for everyday use with occasional hauling I think they are fine. In a Quad Cab or a 4x4 the six might leave you with an unrewarding experience. A lot depends on what you've been use to driving and expect for power.
In my Club Cab I have gotten very good mileage with the 4.7 (287 CID) engine. But I drive sedately. When loaded with the ATV and gear my Dakota still has plenty of power for hills and such, not even downshifting unless its a real steep grade. The price is paid, however, if I drive impatiently. It can easily turn in MPG in the 14s if I get on it a little bit.
My weekly average is 17.4 back-and-forth to work, around town. My loaded interstate best was 20.76, unloaded I just turned in 22.96 MPG. My to-date average is 16.54. Cold weather and short trips take their toll.
I have found my Dakota to be a very comfortable and pleasant vehicle to drive. It's just the right size, and with the front and rear sway bars and larger tires it handles exceptionally well, in my opinion. I have had no defects in components or in assembly at 17,070 miles.
Best of luck,
Dusty
I do know that the V6 is re-done for the 2004 models. It is now a 3.7L, at 210 HP! The specs from Dodge say the gas mileage is a little better now, but EPA projections are the same as the 3.9L.
I guess one thing that really got me thinking 4WD was that some people I know who drive 2WD (One drives a Ram 1500, the other an S-10) say that they would have liked 4WD. That is strange considering neither of them do much hauling or towing...
Thanks again for the advice, Dusty!
Seth
Actually, my biggest concern would be maintenance and replacement cost issues. When I did auto repair for a living I always dreaded working on a 4x4 no matter who made it or what it was. They were a pain in the butt to work on certain areas or components. Even changing to oil filter on a 4x4 Dakota is a little more complicated and inconvenient from what I've read.
I know what you mean, though, about boat ramps. I have had a few nighmarish problems with a few myself and on those occasions a 4-wheel drive would have resolved the problem. Since you do tow a boat I would strongly recommend that as a minimum limited slip differential should be a must for you in a 2-wheel drive.
Best regards,
Now its time to decide on Manual vs Auto transmission! I have checked with a couple dealers and their manual transmission selection is pretty slim. It's another $1000 for the auto, and I would almost prefer a stick...
One more question I'll throw out: Did any of you Dakota owners special order your truck? I'm a little flexible on color, but options and features I'm pretty set on... Can anyone share their ordering experience?
You just tell the salesman EXACTLY what you want and wait about month. The window sticker will say "this truck built for Wolfinblue"
Ordering a vehicle is the best way to go because you get what YOU want and it costs less too. (All they have to do is take your order and they have sold a vehicle...)
My ordering experience:
1) Research, research and research some more. Read the archives of the numerous Dakota websites.
2) Know EXACTLY what you want and the option-mix that you prefer. There are several websites that explain how the various options can 'mix -n- match'
3) Those same websites tell you EXACTLY what the dealer cost is for every option. (There are even 'discounts' for some option-mixes)
4) Enter the dealership WITH YOUR RESEACH FOLDER. Speak to a salesman and explain EXACTLY what you wish to do. I made it very clear that I was not there to play a negotiation game. I will make an offer and they can take it if they wish. (I offered 4% over dealer cost and they jumped on it)
5)The salesman takes your order and explains the delivery turn-around-time.( I received my truck in less than a month.)
NOTES:
*)Become a "Farm Beuaru" member for $50.... all members get $500 off any Dodge truck purchase.
*)They will try to sell you extra stuff like xtended warantee... be expecting to negotiate on that kind of stuff.
*)I always ask them to 'throw in' the factory shop manual... if you are at all interested in how the various systems on your truck work... It expains these things very well.
*)I got them to 'throw in' mudflaps too.
*)Dont forget to check out the Dodge truck accessory catalog. Any accessories bought at purchase-time are coverd under the vehicle warantee. (I got the factory runningbaords so my wife can climb into the truck)
*)Dont expect to push too hard on 'freebees' that are 'thrown in' because they are allready making very little on the deal.
Just thinking, I do know another fellow that has a RAM pick-up with that motor and he commented that he was surprised at the available power being a V6. That is a manual transmission, by the way. His top gas mileage was 22+ MPG soon after he got it. Unless it has improved with miles, I've beat that with my 4.7 auto Dakota Club Cab. But, there's probably a weight difference there, too.
As mentioned earlier, the 3.7 is nothing more than a 4.7 less two cylinders. It uses a polyspherical combustion chamber. In this particular execution it is essentially a hemispherical combustion chamber with one flat bulkhead side. Some referred to this design as a "semi-hemi."
I would think that this new 3.7 would have a moderately noticeable performance gain over the 3.9 LA engine that is replaces. There are a number of technological advances being utilized in this design besides the combustion chamber shape. Another advantage if you're considering an automatic is the 3.7 gets the 545RFE, five speed adaptive transmission. I have come to love the smoothness of mine.
By the way, a 3.9 Dakota Club Cab with beat my sister-in-laws two-door 4.3 Blazer with ease.
Drive one. That's the best way to tell.
Best of luck,
Dusty
Anybody have any experience with truck wanting to drift right. This has always bothered me about this truck. Does not matter if road has zero crown, or negative crown, take hands off wheel and slightest bit of bump, wind, twig, whatever, and truck will go to the right. I have had it aligned a couple of times and tires have been rotated as well as pressure checked. To me, the truck also seems like it turns it easier and slower to the right and harder and faster to the left. Not as much steering wheel rotation needed to go left as right.
How did I become so knowledgeable on Dakotas? Gee, your question alone makes me blush. I don't believe I could quality for expert status. I am a little anal about such things. Doing research is a part time avocation of mine, although in an entirely different venue. I worked in the auto industry for a while, so being inquisitive, anal, and having some knowledge about things automotive just the right combination I guess. Since I now own a Dakota, I'm keenly interested in things "Dakota."
Best regards,
Dusty
I believe the auto transmission that comes with the Dakota 3.7L V6 is the 42RLE.
dataguru
They use the 45RFE (not 545RFE) with the 3.7 on the RAM.
Thanks, data.
Regards,
Dusty
Does anybody know if those rebates come off the top(purchase price of truck) or the bottom line(after taxes, title, etc.)? I looked around here on Edmunds and couldn't find an answer... probably looked in the wrong places though.
Thanks again to Dusty, dakowner, bpeebles for your advice on my previous questions.
However, I suspect that what a lot of dealers will do is say "Hey, I can make you a great deal by offering you $xxxx off." Of course, if the rebates are $2500 or something like that, a lot of people would say "great" and walk with the deal. But in reality the rebates are factory sponsored and shouldn't have an influence on the deal you make with the dealer.
Did I make any sense?
Anyway, hope that helped.
Best regards,
Dusty
Unfortunately, that SXT I drove wasn't exactly what I'm looking for. 80% what I want, but a couple things missing - most importantly the tow package, and it was the wrong color. They said they won't go that low ($100 below invoice) if I were to order since the promotion is only for vehicles already in stock, but I'm sure I can talk them down to close to invoice, especially since they are a volume dealer. I'm not going to settle for something that isn't quite what I want just because they say they'll give me such a great deal.
Dusty
Yes, my Sport Plus model does not have the word "Sport" anywhere on it, something my 12 year-old daughter is fond of telling me. Mine is a Club Cab and the black solid graphic tape between the door and quarter window on older versions was deleted. However, in all fairness I have gotten some comments from others that mine has a nice "clean" look about it. It is the bright silver with factory flairs and the optional silver wheels.
I'm not sure what you meant about the chrome grille. Since mine is a Sport model it would be body color anyway, but I think the SLTs still have chrome.
Regards,
Dusty
Bookitty
Novel idea for a truck, but I'd be afraid of rattles.
Regards,
Dusty
Ron
Ron
To drain the fluid... suck it ou with a vacuum liquid removal unit. Many folks use these to change their oil too. (especially on vehicels with full covers underneath the engine such as the VW TDI... the oil filter lifts out from above)
To fill it, There is a 'capped' hose that leads from a nipple on the front distributer cover up to near the battery. Just pull the 'cap' off of that hose and fill it thru there until it starts to come out the overflow hole.
2000 CC 4.7 4x4 5-speed
I don't know when Dodge started doing this, but on my 2003 Dakota with the 9.25 LSD, there is a flat magnet glued to the bottom of the axle housing. When I changed the gear lube in mine I was pleasantly surprised to find it clean of any metal particles.
One nice thing about removing the differential cover is it allows you to inspect the cavity for signs of gear wear or damage. It's actually one of the reasons they don't provide a drain plug anymore, although the bean counters I'm sure had a hand in that decision.
Regards,
Dusty
Robert