Subaru Crew - Future Models II

nowakj66

Well the new Outbacks may be at the Philly Flower show, but there were no 05s (Legacy, Outback or Forester) at the Columbus Auto Show yesterday. Sort of a disapointment.

The Booth staff did say 05 Legacies will be out by June and Outbacks by August.

lark6

Bob: Disappointing indeed. Sorry I didn't take the time to look at that XT on display. The question for me is now whether I wait to see what kind of bugs the '05 SportShift Legacies develop or go ahead and get an '05 Forester XT and resign myself to the same old 4EAT drivetrain. So I have to ask myself: would I really take advantage of SportShift and row my own regularly, or would I treat it (like Pat describes) as something of a novelty?

For me, the big thing is that the Forester is a better fit for me in many ways. In doing a head-to-head drive test I imagine I would come up with the same results that I did in fall 1999: Legacy GT wagon has better highway manners, but Forester feels more nimble due to shorter wheelbase plus has better secondary/rural/rough road handling. The extra cog and final gearing in the GT could tilt in its favor, however.

There's a bit of a psychological barrier as well. Even with the last generation I felt that I'd be more comfortable treating the Forester "dirty" than the Legacy. Now that the Legacy is even closer to near-luxury appointments I'd be even less prone to tossing wet paddling gear or greasy, fusty antique car parts in the back of one. The Forester? Meh, let's go tearing down that farm path; I hear there's a good parts car back behind that barn...;-)
 
There's also that diaper changing station aspect that juice always talks about, too. ;-)

In any event, to paraphrase the old ad "frankly, I'm puzzled" as to why SoA doesn't see fit to put VTD and SportShift in all the performance variants of the model lineup. This is especially the case as WRXes and the Forester Cross Sports in other markets already get that. Do you suppose they figure the prime US Forester demographic prefers something with FWD bias and understeer?

Finally: If that was indeed an '05 Forester XT, when will we get full product info on them? Patii, if you're reading this, inquiring minds want to know!

Ed

ateixeira

It's gotta be pre-production, one can still hope.

-juice

rsholland

cranks a 4.25 sec 0-60, and 80-100 mph time of a 3.6 seconds in 4th gear! Only 500 to be built. More info over on subdriven.com.

Bob

rsholland

As reported over at nabisco, a Subie dealer from New England just reported getting two '05 Bajas in their latest allocation! Even he was surprised!

"04 Bajas are/were so scarce, I bet some dealers never got any..

Bob

bluesubie

Maybe the new brand managers can work on getting Prodrive Products through SoA.

-Dennis

ateixeira

You're right, Bob, in fact I'm not sure I've ever seen a 2004 Baja. Lots of 2003s, maybe a single 2004, even then I'm not sure.

I wonder if they just cut them over to 2005 without any major changes. I doubt they'd invest much at this point.

-juice

salbaby1972

The colors are up for Outback on need-desire.com... Very cool...

--Sal

ateixeira

Satin White Pearl
Brilliant Silver Metallic
Atlantic Blue Pearl
Regal Blue Pearl
Garnet Red Pearl
Obsidian Black Pearl

Wow! Just one metallic color. Looks like a whole new pallette!

Seems like each color is more pure, honest, to the name. The red is more red, blue more blue, and so forth.

I'm impressed. I particularly like the Atlantic Blue Pearl, seems near perfect with a little character but just the right hue to hide dirt.

Surprises? There is no green. There were 2 before. There's also no beige/gold color.

-juice

ateixeira

WOW! Now that is a selection.

11 color schemes! Yet again the Legacy is the ignored step child.

The *only* color it loses compared to the Legacy is the dark blue (Regal Blue Pearl).

It gains, in monotone, the Champange Gold Opal.

Two tone, it gets:

White/Granite Opal
Silver/Granite Opal
Gold/Granite Opal
Blue/Granite Opal
Willow Green/Moss Green

Looks like metallic is out of fashion! What does an Opal effect look like, though?

From the two-tone colors, I like the silver the best. It blends nicely. Blue also looks good.

The Green is the wild color, no doubt, I bet this is the one they'll put in the wilderness photos in the brochure.

I actually do not particularly like the hues they chose, though the colors to match up. The lighter green is too yellowish for me.

Of course you gotta see them all in person.

-juice

subewannabe

the willow green over moss green must be the color of the Outback LL Bean shown on the subdriven gallery. Very classy, and blends in with the woods. I wonder if I could get a Outback XT in Mossy Oak Break-Up camo scheme?
   The Atlantic Blue and the Champagne Gold are both nice if you're not OC on the car cleanliness issue ( my vanity plate: "WASH ME").
   Rumors that the 05 Forester XT might be had with MT and moonroof now have me considering waiting until THAT comes out before I make my decision.....at this rate I will wait myself into the 7 passenger crossover!

Mark

bblacha

Be careful waiting for the 7-seater: I doubt MT availability. None of its present competitors have it.
FXT with MT and moonroof sounds sweet - but make a blue one, please. I've already sent a suggestion to SoA... it's a shame there's no Rally Blue FXT.

c_hunter

I think many of the colors are still metallic, it just doesn't say so in the name. All three of our Soobs have metallic paint, but it's not in the name. Usually "pearl" indicates some sort of metallic effect too.

Craig

nowakj66

So what is the release schedule for '05 Subarus this year?

my guess:

Baja 05 - Now
Legacy 05 - May
Outback 05 - August
Impreza 05 - ?
Forester 05 - ?

ateixeira

Pearl I've seen, the Maxima had a pretty paint color with that effect. I guess the flakes are smaller, tiny really.

But what's Opal?

-juice

rsholland

The '04 Baja turbo shown at the Philly Flower Show was white with off-white (pearl?) cladding. It was very good looking. That's the first time I've seen that color combo.

Bob

ateixeira

Once again, it's mind boggling how many variations Subaru will offer. Especially if the Baja turbo gets a seperate color pallette.

Legacy/Outback already get a combined 12 color schemes.

-juice

rsholland

mixes and matches a lot. For example, the Baja most likely shares colors with other models (Legacys & Outbacks), but the cladding is a slightly different color, so the net effect is that it a appears to be a completely different color scheme, when in fact it's not.

Bob

trueawd

Baja 05 - Allocated now for April/May arrival
Legacy 05 - End of May / June arrivals
Outback 05 - End of May / June arrivals
More 4cyl at the end of May (not Turbos, just base) with a small % of Turbos and 6s (like 10-20%). Then June a few more turbos and 6s like 20-30%.
Impreza 05 - May arrivals
Forester 05 - June arrivals

nowakj66

Is this a firm schedule or a guess?

trueawd

It's 99%. I got it from the Subaru sales rep at the Chicago Auto Show. Not the product specialist either.

Unless something goes wrong with production on Legacy. SOA should be allocating them first week in April for the scheduled late May/June release.

bat1161

I like the colors offered for both the Legacy and OB. At this point, without seeing them in person, it would be a toss up between the Brilliant Silver Metallic, and the Atlantic Blue Pearl. Both stand out, and even better, the blue is close to what my wife wants in a car. Just one more selling point.
    I hope they have both the LEgacy GT and OB XT at the NY show that we can sit in!

Mark

ateixeira

OK, I'll step out of character and identify my source this time, because I don't want the wrong people to get in trouble. Long story short, I test drove a Saab to fulfill one of those test drive offers my wife got me, and met an ex-Subaru salesman at VOB Saab, his name may or may not be Bill. ;-)

Any how, he gave me the full scoop!

I actually saw a list of 2005 models! It looked reliable enough that I'll share the info. There is bad news and good news, as always.

Bad news: Forester keeps a 4EAT on all models, and still no SportShift mentioned.

Good news: Premium package indeed will make it to the turbo XT model! :-)

<plop, plop, plop>

That's the sound of a few of us falling off The Fence.

It listed an LL Bean model, as rumored, but get this - with the N/A 2.5l engine. I can't recall specifically but IIRC it replaces the Premium Package on the XS models, which might mean now it's the XS that only comes in automatic if you want a moonroof.

Makes sense to me - 5MT folks want performance, give it to them.

Another scoop - the RS gets a step-up model called the RS PRO. It did not say what that model will get but they could be adding back the fog lights and rear LSD that the RS lost in 2002, who knows?

I don't see why this guy would lie, he was trying to sell me a Certified Pre-owned 9-5 wagon. The news made me less likely (even though I wasn't likely to buy a Saab to begin with).

So, thoughts? Finally! 5MT PP XT!

-juice

rsholland

Good news: Premium package indeed will make it to the turbo XT model! :-)

You mean with the 5-speed manual tranny, right?

What about WRX? Any word on the premium Package being offered on the wagon?

Bob

subearu

while the PP would be nice, it isn't necessary for me per se. I am intrigued though. However, this would delay me getting into an XT MT (w/PP) until June?, IIRC. If that's the only change, then I'd be fine with an '04 XT MT and just get an aftermarket roof put in, perhaps Katskins later (I think I had mentioned this before). Might make it easier to deal on an '04 now too...

That's too bad about not going to the VTD AT. What's so hard (or wrong) about making all AT Subaru's the VTD AT type?

Frankly, I think most people shopping in June/July will be eyeing the Legacy/Outback's and ignoring the *other* Subie's a bit.

-Brian

ateixeira

Yeah, Bob, 5MT + PP for 2005. It's what we all wanted. Canada has had it so a lot of us expected it, but I finally saw it in writing.

I was so excited I didn't think about looking for the WRX wagon with that, but he was pointing out the new models, like the RS PRO, so maybe not.

Bob pointed out the new 3 spoke steering wheel, cruise stalk with integrated On button, and a few other minor tweaks. Oh, and they might tame HAL the climate control freak. ;-)

-juice

locke2c

I like 3 spoke steering wheels!

~c

rsholland

Now if I could only get it without leather, but with the moonroof...

Bob

ateixeira

At this point, I'll wave the white flag. You can't have it exactly as you want it, and I can live with leather.

-juice

hondafriek

(I'll wave the white flag,) yep I agree it doesn't matter how they configure any particular model there wil always be something that is a compromise.

  Cheers Pat.

pon1

In Canada we already get the FXT with moonroof w/o the leather as a PP1 "base" model, so this is easy for Subaru to do, hope you get your wish.

In addition, for the 2005 FXT I realistically hope they:

- take the blue flecks out of the seat fabric
- give us some new and interesting color choices
- figure out the hood deflector/intercooler problem
- carry over the sti style "electroluminescent LED" gauges that are in the new Legacy GT/Outback XT

I read somewhere we could get a power drivers seat, I dont really need that.

I am sure we will not see any changes in gearing, however welcome that may be. My buddy picked up his new FXT on Monday and his only complaint was constantly thinking he needed to upshift.

Juice are you really off the fence - have you already decided like I have that the turbo OB/Legacy GT will be too expensive?

locke2c

put in an aftermarket moonroof like juicy juice.

nowakj66

juice - could the RS Pro be the wagon version of the RS? I thought they might drop the TS wagon in favor of all RS.

lark6

"It's gotta be pre-production, one can still hope."

Bad news: Forester keeps a 4EAT on all models, and still no SportShift mentioned.

Good news: Premium package indeed will make it to the turbo XT model! :-)

<plop, plop, plop>

That's the sound of a few of us falling off The Fence."

Nope, still firmly up there now. I'm still with Brian, baffled as to how SportShift can be offered on the odd-duck Baja and not the fully enclosed car with the nimbler, Impreza-based chassis.

Maybe I can wait until '06?

Ed

rsholland

If history repeats itself (4th year of a 5-year product cycle, like the '01 Forester), '06 should be the year the current generation Forester gets a "freshening." So your instincts could prove right.

Bob

hondafriek

Not just drop the 4EAT altogether and put the sportshift across the line, how much more expensive could it be and it would simplfy production.

 Cheers pat.

kate5000

pleeeaaaase

kate5000

with new, non-HAL climate control, can I set it so that it's ALWAYS in the recirc mode?

subearu

they already have a F-XT specific hood deflector. It's not as pronounced as the 'standard' deflector - the lip doesn't stick up much. I know someone had a link here no too long ago.

-Brian

rsholland

over at nabisco of the '05 Forester XT steering wheel that I mentioned. It's over in News & Views in the '05 Forester XT thread.

This is a different car than the one in Philly. The one in Philly had the optional center gauge cluster. This image doesn't have that.

Bob

lark6

I am with Pat wholeheartedly on the SportShift across the line option - and we have the bean counter rationale to support it!

Seriously, I've been thinking hard about trading for an '05, and not just from the content (or lack thereof) perspective. I will need my '00 to have some trade-in value and the longer I wait the less that value will be. Believe me I understand all the pros and cons of paying as much as possible up front on a vehicle, and I intend to do so. However there are other places I need to have my money in the immediate term, and spreading out car payments should help facilitate that.

Ed

locke2c

typically FHI has production scalability issues. the STi six speed back in 2002 was severely constrained. perhaps the 5EAT faces a similar problem now.

~c

lark6

Good point, Colin. It might bode well for an '06 expansion.

Ed

ateixeira

RS PRO a wagon? Dunno. Two models were listed seperately, one 4EAT and another 5MT.

Ed: I thought about you immediately after seeing "4EAT" in print. Sorry.

They gotta build those trannies at SIA. I say finish up the existing parts contract with the 4EAT supplier and from that point on make 'em 5 speed SportShifts. Even if its a running change.

-juice

bluesubie

James, as Brian pointed out, there are now hood deflectors for the turbos.

I can't believe they're leaving the Sportshift out of the XT. Sometimes their logic just doesn't make ANY sense. Oh well, glad I drive an MT anyway. ;-)

Saw the pic of the XT steering wheel and it doesn't look as good as the one on the new Legacy, IMHO. That's good because I'd prefer the 3 spoker if it looked better (I think, even though I've never tried one).

-Dennis

hypov

when they become available, I'll be plopping it into Pebbles... in about a year.

If they show up in the WRX, maybe sooner

-Dave

lark6

Any hope I have of ever rejoining the full manual crowd is deteriorating as fast as my knees. (Believe me I've considered it; when my wife bought her Pilot visions of WRX STi danced in my head.) Even though I've been on a diet and have lost 30 lbs. since October (20 since January) the damage has probably been done. Blame it on (in chronological order) genetics, the stereotypical "old football injury" (in 1979), several seasons of crouching behind home plate in the 1970s and 80s, and the excess baggage I've carried around the last several years.

The process speeded up two weeks ago when I was playing on the floor with my son, who has almost figured out how to roll over on his own. I heard and felt my left knee pop and it hasn't been the same since. Stupid me hasn't seen a doctor about it yet as I have good and bad days, but a co-worker mentioned something about me limping the other day and I had to acknowledge that.

Anyway enough about my personal life but hopefully you can understand my interest in the SportShift option.

Ed

pon1

The 4eat works really well in the FXT, though obviously it's days are numbered on performance models.

Just one thought is that Subaru probably will not want to overcontent the FXT and hold the price, to keep it's "bargain" status and a reason for a price gap to the Outback XT.

Here in Canada we have 4 FXT models. The PP2 on the FXT is just leather, nothing else, the moonroof and the rest is standard on the "base" PP1. The PP2/leather is cnd$1600 (is this a good deal?).

So what is the color wish list for the 05 Forester and what if anything is known? Ours is "ordered" in MT, just need to pick a color when they come out and decide on leather or not.

ateixeira

Absolutely, Ed. The other thing is you're in a congested area. Add to that long road trips with a kid and any parent will understand.

I hyper-extended my left knee playing soccer, but it only hurts at 9/10ths or higher. Up to 8/10ths no problem, but once in a while I'll re-injure it.

I may be forced to join you in a couple of years, at least for the family car. The Miata (later a B9SC?) can be a manual, at least for now.

-juice

ateixeira

Give us Pacifica Blue on every Subaru model, that's my fave. Rally Blue (dark) also. Then Gunmetal Gray.

Those 3 colors first, the rest I don't really care much.

-juice