My Salesperson Misled Me

asafonov

I realize this chart is "for illustrative purposes only", and may not be current. Thanks for posting it Joel!

I noticed that for Tier 0, the rates are LOWER for 2004-06 vehicles versus the new or demo ones - 8.24 vs 8.95 for 620+, and 11.24 vs. 11.45 for under 620. Seems counterintuitive - new and demo cars represent a higher risk to the lender? The difference in rates is small, but is there nevertheless.

joel0622

Ah now I understand the problem. Don't copy and paste the photo its self, it is the URL that you want to copy and paste.

1. Right Click on photo

2. Click properties

3. Copy url (i.e web site address of photo)

4. Come back to Edmund's and paste the URL you just copied into you message

5. Hold down right mouse button and drag cursor across the URL you just pasted

6. Click the IMG button located right above the :confuse: emotorcon

7. Click preview to make sure your picture shows up in the post

8. Click post my message

9. Tell Mack all the cars he post pics of suck and the cars you post are superior.

joel0622

I don't know. Banks pay people big bucks every year to come up with these rate charts and the score cards used to rate you. I am sure some Bean Counting Egg Head who has never sat in front of a customer or lent a $1 in his life came up with it.

Just like the Guys who work for Ford Motor Company in sales support wouldn't know a good prospect if it walked up and kicked them in the [non-permissible content removed].

jescue

link title">

joel0622

Close, I yold you click URL button, I meant IMG button, I have edited my instruction

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2007/W35/082820071814086707.jpg

Cut and paste this URL into a new message, highlight it, and click IMG and it will work

jescue

This is really starting to make me mad. Now you can click and see it, but the picture is not displayed :mad:

jescue

jescue

:shades:

joel0622

Watch out, Jeff has a new toy to play with now

jescue

mackabee

That's what I told him to do, but you know it takes a little longer for us old timers to learn things. Once we get the hang of it watch out!

Mackabee

mackabee

Great! Now I have two of you to contend with!

jescue

Now I REALLY want to be able to do those little animated things.

british_rover

You just gotta find them on the web.

Google search for Smileys or emotes.

chikoo

2) A 20% interest rate in this low-interest environment would indicate poor (or no) credit. Why is that the DEALER's fault?

I had NO credit and got 3.9% APR for 5 years on my first car purchase. I did not even haggle.

lrguy44

That would have been a factory supported rate and my guess is you were a recent college graduate who did not tank his credit cards.

british_rover

And how many years ago was this? Rates have gone up a whole lot in the past few years.

chikoo

you need to do better

joel0622

There are exceptions to every thing. Are you the one that brought up about your first car being CPO? I can't remember, but the fact of that matter is I feel confident the young man probably earned the 20%. If the poster who started all of this would come back we could ask him.

orbit9090

Don't believe what car dealerships say, and be sure to read all the paperwork.
Do your own reseach and get financing at your local credit union ahead of time.

lrguy44

Don't believe what car dealerships say, and be sure to read all the paperwork.
Do your own research and get financing at your local credit union ahead of time.

1. - Don't let someone who has years of experience add to your research - and above all don't do a test drive. That will make you talk to a dealership.
2. Never believe someone who may know more than you do about the car, financing and accessories.
2. Totally agree
3. Good idea - but there is a good chance a dealer can get you a better rate.

joel0622

Uh thanks?? But I think I will pass on your advice. I got connections

lrguy44

But Joel, you got to watch that Ford F&I guy in Nashville. :shades:

jescue

Very sneaky. I just found out I paid $895 for window etching and Simonize. I would have at least expected some nitrogen in the washer tank for that much. :P

roadburner

Like Toyota, Saturn(Opel) isn't winning any points for originality- here's their Mazdaspeed3 copy:



And the original- for comparison purposes only...

chikoo

I bought a new car as my first car.
my wife bought a CPO as her first car.

mackabee

Just follow this link: link title and do the same thing you do to post pics.
Mackabee

mackabee

Sorry roadburner but Toyota had that design in the bag years before Mazda came out with it. I'll find the pics and post them for you.

Mackabee

mackabee

Kind looks like the new Accord with a hatch.
:shades:

chikoo

Imitation gets you nowhere.

Even mazda learnt it the hard way when it tried to imitate Totota and tried to make a camry-like family car -> the now deceased 626.

It saw success whenever it did original work - RX7, MX-5, Protege, Mazda6, Mazda3 and now the CX-9.

mackabee

I agree with you there. The CX crossovers are a thing of beauty if I say so myself.

Mack

chikoo

one in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Sorry Mack (vic) but nobody gives two cents if toyota had that design in the bag for 20 years now.

chikoo

Right you are sir! I had zero debt. 2 weeks on the job and a chevy corsica rental.

mackabee

Apparently roadburner does.

Mack

roadburner

Toyota has lost the plot- at least when it comes to building entertaining cars. I loved the first generation MR2 as well as most every iteration of the Celica, but there's not a single new Toyota that I would consider owning. Toyota makes wonderful transportation appliances, but they don't build a single car -with perhaps the exception of the IS-F- that makes me want to jump in and go driving just for the fun of it.

jescue

i am a slow learner. I keep getting an X without a picture. :mad:

british_rover

Hey Jescue send me an email if you can my email is in my profile. I have a Jag question for you from a customer of mine.

mackabee

How about one of these?

roadburner

How about one of these?

A tC Supercharged?
It's an attractive car, but according to Inside Line test results...

Mazdaspeed3-tC Supercharged
0-60: 5.9-7.2
1/4 mile: 14.2-15.1
60-0(ft): 116.0-119.5
Slalom(mph): 68.2-66.3
EPA Economy:20/28-22/29
Limited Slip:Std.-N/A
MSRP: 24,650-26,560

The regular tC is a very nice runabout/sports coupe for under $20K, but I suspect the majority of buyers are secretaries rather than car buffs. I'd bet that the automatic to manual ratio is 4-to-1.
Again Mack, I'm not saying Toyota builds bad cars; it's just that the cars they build aren't very entertaining. There's nothing in their product mix for guys like me who loved the MR2, Celica, and Supra.

jescue

sent.

mackabee

The tC must had a boatload of accessories to top up at $26,560.00.; Price on a 5spd 08 is around $17,400 add a supercharger for $3200 and you're at $20,600.00 still a lot less than the Mazdaspeed3/

Mackabee

roadburner

Price on a 5spd 08 is around $17,400 add a supercharger for $3200 and you're at $20,600.00 still a lot less than the Mazdaspeed3/

The price I listed was for a Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring, which adds a trip computer, 6 disc Bose sound system, automatic Xenon headlamps, rain sensing wipers, a theft deterrence system, and leather trimmed seats. The "base" Mazdaspeed3 is the Sport, which goes for $22975. Does the price of the TRD supercharger include installation? Assuming it does, the tC would still need a LSD($1350) and 18" wheels and tires($1565) to match the Mazdaspeed's level of equipment. The tC does have a standard sunroof, something that is unavailable on the Mazdaspeed(which is fine with me; I dislike sunroofs). That said, even if installation costs are included on all three TRD items the MSRP of the tC would now be -according to the Scion web site, anyway- $23735.

mackabee

Well, you'll be amazed we actually sell more 5spds than automatics. At least in my neck of the woods. And not all the secretaries are buying the automatics either.
I still believe the tC in standard form is the best bang for the buck.
Mackabee

mako1a

Since the sales folks have gone back to the frontlines (or football discussion) I'd like to present my thoughts on buying new or used with a trade-in for the readers about to pull the trigger (buy).

First thing is to compare apples to apples. Both vehicles should be valued using the same ACV (actual cash value) criteria. If the trade in is assigned auction value, then the used vehicle should get auction value as well. After that the dealer/salesman profit/commission should be applied.

Don't let your trade fall out of value and the buy vehicle become overvalued just because they found a buyer who will overpay (you).

New vehicles are a little tougher to assign ACV to, but invoice should not be exceeded unless there is high demand. *Remember demand is very low on almost all vehicles presently. Don't get caught in an overpayment for a diminshing asset combined with a low trade value.

Sometimes there is no way around a trade-in situation. Don't give away your trade. If you knew what the trade-in was for the vehicle you're about to buy it would make sense to value accordingly then add profits/commission.

isellhondas

I don't understand...

" but invoice should not be exceeded unless there is high demand"

So, dealers should sell their cars for what they pay for them? That makes a lot of business sense!

" If the trade in is assigned auction value, thenthe used vehicle should get auction value as well"

So, we should sell our used cars for what we pay for them at the auction??

Please understand that stores have to make a (gasp) profit in order to stay in business! I don't think you have a clue about the tremendous OVERHEAD that we deal with before we can open the doors!

As far as trades, there are a lot of trades that we simply don't want! We don't want your 120,000 miled up domestic mini-van. Yes, we understand that they are ALL freeway miles, and we know your dead A/C "just needs a charge".

These cars "no sale" at the auctions too. Nobody wants them!

I'm sure your sage advise is well intensioned but it doesn't reflect the reality of the marketplace!

mako1a

You forgot that I also said "then add profits/commission".

Just trying to help the buyers take apart things salesfolks like to combine together.

If they're reading here they're already doing what they can to get a fair deal. Edmunds is a great resource. However once they hit the lot things can get confusing quickly. I'm saying all aspects of the "deal" should be looked at individually.

Once the trigger is pulled you can't just hit the undo button.

lrguy44

But the trick is assigning a ACV to the trade I had a customer last week who used Kelly to assign a value to his trade, I showed him the auction results, NADA ($2500 lower) and 2 like vehicles on the lot that were asking (not selling) for $900 over what he wanted for his not taking into account our cost to Certify his trade. He thought we were making $1000 on ours and projected we would make $2000 on his and he thought that was obscene. Buyer, be realistic Too bad Kelly does not buy cars.

Also, commission is based on profit

isellhondas

I guess I missed/didn't understand that part.

People just have to realize that market forces control pricing. Not just on cars but everything.

isellhondas

I know. They will find whatever source that gives their trade the highest value, rate it "excellent" and that is what they "know" their car is worth.

I guess I can't blame them and I never try to discredit their reasearch or their sources. I just try to gently explain reality. Sometimes I will show them auction numbers.

Then they will point out asking prices and tell me "I know what these are selling for"!

Usually, I just let these people out as nicely as I can. They will go all over the state sometimes shopping themselves to death.

I get a lot of these people back once they realize I simply tried to explain reality to them.

mako1a

So use the same section of the same book for both vehicles.
Go ahead and use the black one instead of the orange one, but use the same book for both vehicles...then add profit/commission.

Trades are funny. One mans trash, another's treasure. If you don't want the trade just say so. You may lose the sale, but hey if you don't want it just say "I don't want your trade". You may be rewarded for honesty.