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My Salesperson Misled Me

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If there are not MORE scummy dealerships than good dealerships why so many books about how dealerships run, how they rip people off, etc.???

    Because nobody buys books about good dealerships that don't rip people off.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    Lets face it guys, when money is involved EVERYBODY lies or at least stretches the truth a little.

    In my long and checkered career as a car buyer I have had salesmen lie about:

    The interest rate on the loan.

    The price I would have to pay to get the car.

    The things they would fix if I purchased the car at the agreed price.

    I, on the other hand, have lied about the price I am really willing to pay. Does this make us all evil? Or just human?

    BTW, this story is so outrageous I am beginning to think Mack is right.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    OK…I’ve lurked here long enough

    That's not like you.

    Now, I have to say something

    That sure is. :P

    Though aggravating, most of the "misleading" stuff is part of the game. Tell me you have too much in the car to sell it to me at the price I want... yawn. Tell me you have a serious buyer coming in to look at the car I'm interested in...Belch! Tell me you have exactly the car I'm looking at on the lot, then bait and switch me to another car... yeah I may be a little irritated and pass gas in your general direction for wasting my time, but life goes on.

    BUT, trying to add on bogus interest rates, fees, dealer options not agreed to, higher payments... anything that messes with my wallet, well that's being a scum bucket and thief in my book.

    You guys in the biz also must realize the emotional distress many of the members are under when they post here. They come here to vent and maybe hope for a little sympathy from others who have been through the same thing. They don't want to hear "why didn't you do this" , or "why didn't you blah blah blah". You guys in the biz don't like us non-biz folks to tear apart your sales story in the Frontlines discussion, it is only fair that we would expect the same consideration from you. That said, broad generalizations are uncalled for.

    The Honda Ody I almost bought 4 years ago wasn't bought partly because they tried adding an extra $500 onto the life of our loan. I guess they didn't know the jipster knows how to add. But, the 04' generation of Ody was pugly IMO, and things turned out well anyway. We have been extremely happy with the power and superior styling of the Mazda "ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM" MPV we bought instead. :shades:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    yeah I may be a little irritated and pass gas in your general direction for wasting my time, but life goes on.

    Now that's truly funny and I never ever thought of that one. I shall file it for future reference. :)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    I, on the other hand, have lied about the price I am really willing to pay. Does this make us all evil?

    Well... you're the only one admitting it, so I guess that would just make you evil. The rest of us are all angels. :P
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • humblecoderhumblecoder Member Posts: 125
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the guy who let his mom go to that nefarious dealership on her own, where she then proceeded to sign a contract she wasn't able to read?

    I think an old aviation maxim might be appropriate for your situation:

    "If you don't know, don't go..."


    You bring up an interesting question here. What moral obligation does a car salesperson have to not prey on a customer who can be manipulated easily.

    I am not talking about the guy who pays "above market" price because they didn't do their research. In that case, the person deserves to pay more. I am talking about a more extreme case where maybe somebody isn't 100% in charge of their faculties (either because of senility or feeble-mindedness or whatever). Or maybe the person is just overly trusting in the extreme. Or maybe the person is uneducated or illiterate. Etc.

    I can see how somebody who falls into these categories might not fully understand the contract. I can see how a good salesperson might convince the person that they are getting one car, but then write up another car. I can see how they might pad the bill with extras without discussing them in advance. I can see how they might get the person to agree to an unusually high rate of interest.

    Yes, I agree with roadburner that a contract is a contract in most cases. In most cases, if somebody signs a contract to pay $200 for Nitrogen in the tires or whatever, then I have little sympathy.

    However, I think there are cases where the salesperson has a responsibility to not prey upon those who might be vulnerable, for whatever reason. Yes, the salesperson might be legally in the right when they get somebody to sign the contract. On the other hand, just because something is legal, doesn't make it right!
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    3.) Mr. Customer says, "$20,000 is all I have to spend." You reply, "I can't get you to $21,500 out the door that is my best deal, how is that Mr. Customer?" Mr. Customer replys, "$21 even and you've got a deal." LIAR!

    I don't think this is necessarily the customer lying. More likely the customer has a $20,000 budget, but really wants the car and pays more than he/she can really afford.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I don't know how it works in other states but where I work my customer signs or initials the agreed upon price of the car. Anything they buy after that is up to them and I don't put it in the price. The contracts get signed in the business office with the business manager. There are crooked sales people out there, men and women and I have "worked" with a few of them but wouldn't give them the time of day.
    Short story time because it's getting late.
    I sold a certified pre-owned Corolla to a Navy Chief and his wife last year. It was a Sunday sale and they wanted to get their own money from their credit union which was fine with me. We did all the paperwork, the car was sent to prep so it would be ready the next day.
    We made an appointment to deliver the car at 1:00 pm the next day. Well customers have a mind of their own and they show up at 10:00am to pick up the car. It's my day to come in at noon so I don't hear about it until I come in and I see them all happy with keys in hand ready to go home.
    They take their car and I thank them and they leave. The sales woman that gave them the keys is now getting half a deal, or split commission. I went and talked to the sales manager and asked why he was doing that since she had nothing to do with the sale of the car. "She delivered the car." he tells me. "Delivered? The car was delivered on Sunday! They knew everything about that car before they left, the operation, the warranty, everything. All that was left to do was pay for the car and take it home." I was livid.
    Later that evening I confronted the sales woman and asked her plain and simple if she thought she deserved half my commission. "The manager told me to do it." she replied. "That's not what I asked you. Do you in your heart and mind think you deserve half of my commission?" She didn't respond.
    I had to threaten to go the the General Manager of the store to sort things out and ended up with my full commission.
    A few months later they sent her to F$i school and three months later she was fired for stealing from the other F&i managers.
    :shades:
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I had to threaten to go the the General Manager of the store to sort things out and ended up with my full commission.

    We've all heard of this but is this the norm in your biz or are you at a store that is more prone to doing this? I for one would have a hard time working under these conditions.

    Just curious. Input from the other sales guys are welcome.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Input from the other sales guys are welcome.

    I think the winch deserved something. Not 50% of the commission though, maybe 15-20%.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I think the winch deserved something. Not 50% of the commission though, maybe 15-20%.

    It doesn't work that way. It is a 50/50 split. If for some reason a 3rd sales person gets involved, the middle one is out.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It seems that some customers have a mind of their own.

    They will simply show up without calling first to make sure their salesperson is going to be there.

    Appointments?? I take these with a grain of salt anymore. When people do come when they say they will, it's a pleasant surprise.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Not 50% of the commission though, maybe 15-20%.

    I feel even 15-20% is too much for handing over the keys to a buyer when the deal has already been wrapped up. Why can't there be courtesy amongst employees? Like, you do it for me and I'll do it for you, so we can all enjoy our day off. But according to ‘lrguy44’, by rule, Mack must have his head ripped off by a fellow worker. This explains why when I bought in 2005 the salesman came in the next day, his day off, to hand me the keys because they couldn’t deliver the car the previous night when they couldn’t find all the paperwork.

    It’s been proven once again that the car biz will take advantage of anyone. Even their own employees. :sick:

    Yet another reason why I wouldn’t like to be in their biz.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, this depends on the store.

    I know there are several other salespeople at our store who would be happy to do a delivery for me and I would return the favor.

    This can, indeed, be a cold business but every store is different.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    That is the way it works at our store - we try to protect other salesman to make sure if the customer bought before, they get the customer and if off, a split. It takes awhile to train a newbee how to behave (especially if they came from a low end store) but eventually they learn. Thank goodness we have had only 1 newbee in the past several years.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    "...The rest of us are all angels..."

    Now who's lying? ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    "...I for one would have a hard time working under these conditions..."

    At one time I worked in a similar sales environment. That's why I became a farmer.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Actually, a true split (not a skate) works out in the wash. If someone comes in on my day off, half is better than nothing. Conversely, if I get another's customer on their day off, it all evens up in the long run.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    At least half of my deals are splits.

    As the Internet Manager, I can have three or four people show up at the same time. Usually on a busy Saturday afternoon after I have strongly urged them to come EARLY.

    Also, I try to pace myself. I MAY stay late for a customer but I have been stood up so many times I will usually have them just ask for someone else.

    Here is what happens. I'm scheduled off at 5:00. I have a customer tell me he/she can't make it until 7:00. OK, I've got lots to do so I tell them I'll stick around for them.

    7:20, they show up, dragging a couple of kids with them. It's dark and it's raining. They are having second thoughts about whether they want a CRV or a Pilot. They want to test frive both of them again....groan...they drag car seats into the cars and off we go. It's now 8:30 and they decide on the Pilot. They spend ten minutes arguing about the color. Then they spring their trade on me. This is the same car they were "going to sell to a friend".

    It's a 1998 Caravan with 135,000 miles. They "know" what it's worth thanks to some internet source. I try to kick it...no go. Finally we come to terms, it's now 9:15 and Finance is backed up. I do the paperwork run them through Finance and do my delivery...LOTS of questions. By now their kids are wild and screaming!

    It's 10:00 and I drag my tired butt up the hill to my car.

    My day started at 8:00.

    Would I give this up for a half deal? You betcha!
  • asafonovasafonov Member Posts: 401
    yeah I may be a little irritated and pass gas in your general direction for wasting my time, but life goes on.

    Now that's truly funny and I never ever thought of that one. I shall file it for future reference.

    Four Words: The Monty Python Holy Grail.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Four Words: The Monty Python Holy Grail

    (in French accent): "ho ho ho you English dog... that is five words not four! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of [non-permissible content removed]. Do you wish to be taunted some more?" ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    "Bring up the holy hand grenade."
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Just curious. Input from the other sales guys are welcome.

    At my store if someone does a delivery it is a 50-50 split. But there are exceptions here such as if someone was really sick and had a doctors note. Or someones wife, child or family member was sick or a accident, or a family emergency. Or if someone had to do work related stuff such as a swap or a out of state delivery. Than the desk would have somone take care of it for them.

    If someone came in on my time off for a delivery before a scheduled delivery the desk would call and see if I could come in to take care of it. If I can't come in and i can get someone to do me a favor than it won't be a split.

    The only times they are ussualy split here is when a salesperson states they aren't coming in on their day off to deliver a car. Or it is your time off and they come in and the desk can't get ahold me and they have to make sure the car gets delivered than it would be a split.

    But it is funny that Mack said he asked her if she really felt she deserved a split. Because you know when you are entitled to a split or not. I myself would help another salesperson out in a heartbeat because there are times I know I'll need help. I am lucky to work with a group of people that work together and try to have fun together. We are lucky to a managmnet team that tries to make the dealership a team place. We do a lot of things outside of work together too such playing other dealers in softball games, bowling etc. etc.

    Anyway on a side note I am trying to get used to these new Edmunds forums pages.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Just curious. Input from the other sales guys are welcome.

    At my store if someone does a delivery it is a 50-50 split. But there are exceptions here such as if someone was really sick and had a doctors note. Or someones wife, child or family member was sick or a accident, or a family emergency. Or if someone had to do work related stuff such as a swap or a out of state delivery. Than the desk would have somone take care of it for them.

    If someone came in on my time off for a delivery before a scheduled delivery the desk would call and see if I could come in to take care of it. If I can't come in and i can get someone to do me a favor than it won't be a split.

    The only times they are ussualy split here is when a salesperson states they aren't coming in on their day off to deliver a car. Or it is your time off and they come in and the desk can't get ahold me and they have to make sure the car gets delivered than it would be a split.

    But it is funny that Mack said he asked her if she really felt she deserved a split. Because you know when you are entitled to a split or not. I myself would help another salesperson out in a heartbeat because there are times I know I'll need help. I am lucky to work with a group of people that work together and try to have fun together. We are lucky to a managmnet team that tries to make the dealership a team place. We do a lot of things outside of work together too such playing other dealers in softball games, bowling etc. etc.

    On the idea 15-20% . i think just buying them a lunch is significant enough most of the time.

    Anyway on a side note I am trying to get used to these new Edmunds forums pages.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Anyway on a side note I am trying to get used to these new Edmunds forums pages.

    Me too! I think I like it! :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Anyway on a side note I am trying to get used to these new Edmunds forums pages.


    I would figure that Edmunds would have gave you sot and spin before they switched to new way of doing things!

    I tried to edit that post and some how posted it twice.

    Is it me or does it look clearer. It almost looks like the aquos HD TV :surprise:

    I'm sure we will get the hang of it.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I guess we all have our understanding of a split deal and a delivery. To me a split deal means I did half the work. A delivery means I did the delivery i.e. went over the car with the customer, put the plates on, etc. A delivery to me is NOT giving the customer the keys to the car and waving them off, while a lot porter was ordered to put the plates on. Heck the lot porter could have put the plates on and handed them the keys.
    This was just a case of common courtesy that anyone with any sense at all would have done. There have been plenty of times when someone else's customer comes in and wants to test drive a car. No problem. I get them the keys, put a plate on and off they go. Do I think I deserve half the deal when they come back and buy from their salesperson? NO! but I guess I have different standards than other folks.
    Mack

    PS. whose bright idea was it to change the layout of these pages?/ :confuse:
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Our rules here are if you get a fresh up and he ask for some one else who is not here or has another customer (we don't allow stacking) it is a split if you can get them on paper. If you can't get them on paper and they come back the next day and buy from the guy they asked for then you are SOL. Now that is our rule but hardly any of the sales people follow it because they know it is most definitely a double edged sword.

    We also tell them that management will not get involved in split deal arguments. That is settled on the floor. They are all grown men. If they can't settle it and make asses of themselves arguing we make it a house deal and then both of them are screwed. it never happens.

    I tell guys all the time I will deliver cars for them. They make sure the gas tank is full, the car is cleaned up correctly, the stickers are out, and the drive out tag is on there. The only rule is I don't want to here no bitching if they get a crappy survey for the delivery. I won't go over the car with them. So it is up to the sales person, does he want to stick around and do it right or go home.

    I can honestly say that I am happy as hell I don't work in an import store. You guys tell some vicious stories, and allot of the worst experiences from a customer stand point has come from import stores also.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Here I thought I had done something to screw up my computer.

    WHY, Edmunds, have you screwed up a perfectly good format? I feel like I am in England, driving down the wrong side of the street!

    Is this for left handed people or what?

    Can you please switch it back??
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Here's the topic you need to check up on: Forums Software. The explanations for what you are seeing are there (back up a page or two) and it's the place for your questions.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Can you please switch it back??

    Why would we do that? I think it's GREAT! Give it time - it will grow on you.

    You can post further thoughts about the redesign in Forums Software! Your Questions Answered... and stick to the designated topic here.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Give it time - it will grow on you.

    Yeah but so will a fungus.

    Tell me did they silence that annoying Mini ad?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    When I bought my 4Runner at Macks store, Checkered Flag in Virginia Beach I didn't know about the "over the curb or it's not a sale" rule.

    While the salesguy was telling me about all the buttons I lit up a cigarette in the drivers seat. A minute later I said " where's the ashtray?" He said Toyotas don't have ashtrays. I said this isn't gonna work for me. Littering is a big deal in Va Beach. At the time I didn't know what got them stepping and fetching so quickly for an ashtray. Now I know it was the "over the curb" thing as I wasn't leaving without a "butt kit" and they knew it.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    It would not have been a real class act to smoke in a car and then not take it. Cars that have been smoked in require at the least more recon and at the worst send to auction. They also bring less money for trade.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I wouldn't expect a host to admit that the change stinks.

    GREAT??? How???
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    Great because it allows more space for advertising and makes it impossible to scroll past the advertising. More space for advertising means more revenue. I agree it stinks, and if they keep on making stupid changes like this people (well me at least) may stop visiting, and eventually that may mean less revenue.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    I have to open this site in IE to see who posted (with a magnifying glass) then switch back to Netscape 7.1 (the best) to respond. I have 17 browser pages open and it is confusing.

    Anyway, I didn't know about the "over the curb" rule and had no intention of giving the car back. As far as I was concerned it was my vehicle and I smoke in "my" vehicles. I know it's a dirty nasty habit, but those 12 cigs /day keep me from going off on the occasional moron.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I just built a new home computer (Vista Ultimate) and the newest IE has a button at the bottom right to magnify (125% is great). I also run LINUX on a partition on my old P4 Sony and FireFox also lets you magnify.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    mako1, smoking is not a "habit" it's an addiction. You should try quitting. Who was your salesperson when you bought the 4runner? Initials are fine since I know everyone there from that time and they are more than likely not there anymore. There's only like three of us from the old building in the new facility. It's really changed a lot from the old mom and pop store it used to be to the big box type of store it is now. :cry:
    Mack
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    smoking is not a "habit" it's an addiction

    How true it is - I have the scars on my chest to prove it
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I use Firefox myself. I hate IE. Netscape used to be my first line of defense until I found Firefox.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    We all know what the rules are Joel. This was not that type of situation. This girl had nothing to do with the sale of the car or any transaction related before or after. It wasn't like I was gone for the day or off. The car was ready to be picked up.
    And I don't particularly care for your comment about this being typical of import stores. We were fine and dandy until they brought in all these so called "managers" from other stores, mainly domestic stores. And most of the problems we've had with skaters and snakes have been from domestic stores. image Particularly one that begins with the letter F. image

    :shades:
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I used to use Opera before firefox. I liked opera better but it became unstable on my system and I never could get the issues fixed with it.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    :surprise: :confuse: >Particularly one that begins with the letter F.

    ?Ferrari? :confuse:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    that is what you get when you buy a car that is designed specially for the USA.

    The ashtray is very useful even if you don't smoke (like me).
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Mack, it was a young black guy that sold me the 4Runner. He was still at the new building a year later or so because I had the service card and went there for oil changes (gratis). I now live 6 hours away, but that gratis card was nice. Hand over the keys and card...get the buzzer thing that lights up when car is done and go to Haynes and look at what the wife will be ordering for the living room next.

    Salesman was a nice guy, but they had a problem with the radio for delivery and replaced it before pick-up. They forgot to plug in the 4WD rotary switch wire down there and then told me all was well when it wasn't. I knew it was messed up still so I took it to the Toyota place in Chesapeake near Ches Square Mall and they fixed it for real. It was just a plug in, but it actually disconnected my 4WD lock-up along with the light.

    Do you guys still have my 98 GT Mustang I traded in? I want it back. Best I ever heard in a factory stereo. Dave

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    The ashtray in my car is the PERFECT size to hold my garage door opener.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Most people I know clip them on their sun visors,

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    I put my cellphone is the ashtray....
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Didn't mean to rub ya wrong Brother. Just making an observation in general not aimed at your store. It could very well be that for the reason the worst stories here come out of import stores is because the majority of the people here drive imports. If it was a Domestic strong board then it would probably lean the other way.

    As far the rules go I am sure the salesmen there are like ours when it comes to it, thats why I included.

    Now that is our rule but hardly any of the sales people follow it because they know it is most definitely a double edged sword.

    Its all good :D
This discussion has been closed.