My Salesperson Misled Me

british_rover

I am having a bad day.

mackabee

That one will be out later. There's some great news coming out of Toyota in a couple of months.

Releasing the 09 Corolla and Matrix in Feb, the 09 Camry in March, and the Diesel Tundra shouldn't be far behind.

I'm not too crazy with the new Landcruiser. Looks too much like the Highlander which looks too much like the Rav4 and so on. I think they are trying to make a family look like MB and BMW so that when you see a Toyota you know it's a Toyota.

The quality of materials they used for the new Landcruiser is not up to par as compared to the last generation. Too much cheap plastic all around, running boards are crappy. But it does have headlight washers! I don't see people ponying up 70k + for this one unless they are real die hard fans of the vehicle.

fezo

I thought that was where you are coming from. Good plan.

When you see the one where the want impulse starts masquerading as need you'll be fine. It's not like you aren't happy with your Seville.

jipster

No problem. You've got a good track record in my book. Hope things go better.

oldfarmer50

"...Run away? Why? Do you think they are going to hurt it in some way?..."

No, of course not. Like the salesman who told me he had a car I was looking at up to 100mph in third gear. If a salesperson or anyone else has no money invested in a car I would treat that 7000 miles as rental car miles, in other words, hard miles.

Make your offer the same as if you were buying from Avis.

isellhondas

I've bought two ex-rentals in my life. One from Avis and the othr from Hertz.

Never had trouble with either of them.

obyone

Must've been American iron cause them imports transmissions don't like too many drivers less they become confused on their programming.

oldfarmer50

"...I've bought two ex-rentals..."

Did you pay MSRP with 0%? Didn't think so.

Rentals in my opinion can be a good value if the price is discounted to account for the possible abuse from people with no financial stake in the long term life of the car.

Last week I rented two cars. Both ran extremely well. Prior rental have not always been so good. Before I purchased any car that has had multiple users I would go to You Tube and type in "rental cars".

isellhondas

There are always the extreme cases. Most rentals are treated pretty good I would expect.

But, hey, if a person is scared, they shouldn't buy one!

kyfdx

Hey, lemko!

Just for a data point..

My local dealer is advertising 2007 DTS, GM Executive cars.. Probably the same thing that your dealer has.. This dealer has seven (7) of them.

3300 to 9500 miles

Orig. MSRP $47,250 to $51,900

Priced: $34K-$36K..

Hope that helps!
kyfdx

EDIT: These cars all have the Cadillac CPO 6yr/100K warranty..

imidazol97

Probably a good idea to get the VIN and run it through CarFax to see what the real record is on the car. I've been suspicious of cars that are program cars, dealer cars, family cars, Executive cars.

lrguy44

There is a big difference in dealer incentives and purchase price of an Executive car as opposed to a Demo. That is not an apples to apples comparison. The dealer can usually obtain an Exec (Program) car for less money.

kyfdx

Well.. if you (the buyer) have a choice between a demo with 5K miles and a standard new car warranty for $40K.. and a program car with 5K miles and an extended factory warranty for $35K, I think it's an easy choice...

The dealer's cost is immaterial to the consumer's choice....

Why pay more for the demo?

joel0622

I would never buy a demo. If I want a new car then I will buy a new car. If I want a used car then thats what I will get. With a demo all you are getting is a very expensive used car.

lrguy44

I agree with you totally. I was just pointing out why the price point may be so different. Not all dealers are able to get Exec cars at any given time.

lrguy44

Joel, Ex-service loaner LR3s are among our biggest sellers, and the way I would buy. The 2007s have 4-8k miles and are $8-$10k off MSRP. What is wrong with that picture?

lrguy44

I've been suspicious of cars that are program cars, dealer cars, family cars, Executive cars.

Why. All are MSO (not used) new cars. If they were damaged, dealer must disclose. We sell them all the time and it is a great way to get a 4-8k mile car at a great price.
Also, if people are afraid of the adaptive transmissions, they can be reset to start learning all over again at a dealer.

joel0622

Those are not Demo's, these are service loaners. You can put those cars in write down and get them competitive with the market.

I am talking about true Demo's. The car the GM's wife drove for six months with 9K on it. You can sell it for a dicounted price of $35K or a used one just like it for $25K

lrguy44

Understand - we don't keep cars in demo service that long - no family cars, just the owners and managers. All of them are for sale at any time and we dehorse them every couple of months.

british_rover

I am talking about true Demo's. The car the GM's wife drove for six months with 9K on it. You can sell it for a dicounted price of $35K or a used one just like it for $25K

About a year ago I was looking for this particular Range Rover Sport for a customer of mine. About a 65,000 dollar MSRP car. I call up one of the bigger New York dealers because they have one. I talk to the sales manager who I know fairly well and he goes oh yeah THAT car... :mad:

Turns out the owner's wife got a hold of it, had it registered and then put 10,000 miles on it. I know they sold it a couple of months later but I don't even want to think about the loss they took when it did sell.

epiney

Turns out the owner's wife got a hold of it, had it registered and then put 10,000 miles on it. I know they sold it a couple of months later but I don't even want to think about the loss they took when it did sell.

It's cheaper than buying a car and trading it in with 10,000 miles, no? Plus it's gets written off as a a business expense to the dealer. I guess you are saying she should have drove it as a demo and not registered it.

epiney

Ex-service loaner LR3s are among our biggest sellers, and the way I would buy.

That tells me that many LR3 buyers don't see enough value in the car to buy them new, since total new sales of LR3's off off quite a bit. Perhaps the target pricepoint is too high or content needs to be upgraded.

british_rover

Punching LR3s into service loaner status counts as a new sale when they first go in. The sales for LR3s have been off for a while and part of it is price point, part of it is content and the final part is the styling has not been a hit with a lot of people.

They just aren't shipping many LR3s to the states right now. The LR3 is the number one or number two seller for Land Rover in most of the reset of the world but in the US is its squarely in last place. Instead of sending more LR3s to the US that would have to be heavily discounted Land Rover has shifted production to other markets outside the US. Range Rover and Range Rover Sport production has been increased and LR3 production has been cut. We haven't had a LR3 order call in several months. I think this month is the first one since May or June.

ashvarts

I'm planning on leasing a new BMW. The car, however, has been titled (looks like to the dealership). It only has 3 miles on the odometer and the dealer says its not a demo or executive car. Should I be worried that it's not MSO? Another dealer who is trying to compete for my business is telling me (not surprisingly) to stay away and is offering a slightly worse deal for a new MSO car. I'm not sure who to believe.

snakeweasel

I bought a 2002 Accent with almost 10K dealer miles on it. 110K miles later it's still running great.

british_rover

Find out when the BMW was actually titled and when the warranty started.

volvomax

Usually, the only way a BMW w/ 3 miles on it gets titled is if a deal was done,and then unwound.
As long as the warranty is unaffected, you should be ok.
Esp if you are going to lease it,and return it.

fezo

Et tu, snake?

Swell. My old Rabbit shamed by an Accent....

Ah, well. It was 28 years ago.

isellhondas

By far, the WORST car we have EVER owned was a 1980 VW Rabbit!

ahtung

Got a problem! I bought my car at Maserati of SF in 05. My original plan was to buy a based model coupe but the 90th Anniversary Edition won me over. There were 2 special edition in the store and I chose this one with a "01/90 North America" plaque. The other was a 22/90. About 4 months ago, a guy living in San Jose contacted me and told me he has the same car with the same plaque. His purchase actually made it to Maserati Monthly. He bought his in Maserati Silicone Valley. So, I wrote a letter to Maserati NA to ask them to figure it out. They determined that my car is not the actual "01/90". Maserati attorney made suggestion about swapping with a new car. But, when I call again, they did not return my calls. So I wrote a letter demanding refund and returning my car, again no response.

Any advice, please help

imidazol97

I'd be talking to the local prosecutor's office for consumer fraud and to my own attorney.

roadburner

By far, the WORST car we have EVER owned was a 1980 VW Rabbit!

Earlier this year I briefly considered a new GTI- when it was receiving all the accolades in the automotive press. I was even half convinced that the MK V cars would be borderline reliable. Luckily for me, the local VW dealer's total lack of interest in ordering a GTI the way I I wanted one killed the deal; the current Car and Driver features a long-term test of a GTI and -can you believe it?- its reliability was somewhat less than stellar.
Thank you Bachman VW!

oldfarmer50

"...its reliability was somewhat less than stellar..."

I hear that a lot about VW products. I just read a few days ago that VW has the best resale value of any brand. Why would that be? :confuse:

british_rover

That can't be right. I would expect Lexus to have the best resale value of any brand as measure by percentage of new car MSRP retained.

exb0

Here is the link to the article.

I don't understand it either. Maybe VW has same appeal as BMW at a lower price point. If the reliability was always the number one priority to all people, most European brands wouldn't be able to sell anything in the US.

joel0622

Thats just one publications opinion. It is amazing how many resident experts there are on the auto industry, and how much peoples opinion vary.

The Mini Cooper continues to blow me away with its value. I was working the desk one Sunday when a guy came into trade one. It came up how much he wanted for it and my first thought was that the guy was on crack.

I new nothing about them and made a few calls and that little damn car brought big money.

british_rover

Ah I see the problem it is Kelly Blue Book coming up with the list and we all know how accurate their values are. :surprise:

epiney

By far, the WORST car we have EVER owned was a 1980 VW Rabbit!

I had a 1990 Golf diesel. I think it had about 60 HP. Throttle had two settings, on and off. Great fuel economy, but cost a lot to fix. Had to replace the glow plugs and injectors. Cold weather was no fun.

micosilver

I hear that a lot about VW products. I just read a few days ago that VW has the best resale value of any brand. Why would that be?

I sell VW's, and I can confirm: small VW's hold their value extremely well, and I can name a few possible reasons:
Between all small cars - VW's are the safest, and for a lot of people safety is more important than reliability.
VW owners tend to take better care of their cars and to drive less - typical Beetle owner drives less than 5,000 miles per year.
Small VW's always sell well, and the pricing is strong - no rebates, rarely 0% APR, and it always helps the resale value.
Now, production of Rabbits cannot keep up with demand, and the factory is going to reduce it even more, which will boost the resale value even higher for older Golfs and new Rabbits.
And some bad year models aside - reliabilty is actually not that bad... :shades:

madredhead

On OCtober 31st, 2005 i purchased a 2003 Chevy Blazer from LaFontaine in Highland Michigan. Every time I called regarding a problem, I was told I was being a paranoid female!! A very trustworthy, licensed mechanic started working on my car....a never ending job! In less than 6 months, I shelled out $1,000 for rotors, brakes, belts and discovered the entire emergency brake system had been removed. The right front bearings are shot...the car is a death trap. I could no longer afford the monthly payments on this piece of junk, so I surrendered the vehicle to a GM dealer near my home. I have been informed that the vehicle will be sold at auction ( I pity the poor sap that actually purchases it!) Apparently, I will be responsible for the balance after the car is auctioned...I DON'T THINK SO!!!
1) the dealer lied about the mileage
2) the car is falling apart
Can anyone advise or help me so I can get out from under any future payments?!?

kyfdx

Maybe they punched this car, to collect on an expiring dealer incentive. If that is the case, then the warranty period has started..

Of course, if you are leasing, this shouldn't matter to you..

Tell us what model.. and, maybe that will give a clue.

volvomax

Basically, you owe the money.
Even if the car was unreliable.
The smart thing to do would have been to try and trade the truck in.

You said the dealer lied about the mileage?
How?

isellhondas

Our Used Car Manager is seriously considering NEVER selling another used VW! They cause us trouble almost every time!

We wholesale most of them for this reason but once in awhile we will decide to keep one that's especially nice.

Last night was our last example, Sold a late model Jetta with 75,000 miles on it. It checked out OK in our shop. An hour later after delivering it, it came in on the back of a wrecker with the oil light on.

We unwound the sale!

snakeweasel

Apparently, I will be responsible for the balance after the car is auctioned...I DON'T THINK SO!!!

Legally you will be responsible for the difference.

You never mentioned how the dealer lied about the mileage.

Tell me did your trustworthy mechanic tell you from the very beginning what was wrong? I know mine would have.

oldfarmer50

"...the entire emergency brake system had been removed..."

I don't know what state you are in but here in NY a dealer couldn't legally sell a car like that. That alone would be enough for you to get your money back. Did you have it checked out prior to buying? My guess is no. Not the best way to buy a used car.

What do you mean by "surrendered the vehicle"? Did you stop making payments on it? If so you are going to ruin your credit.

If the dealer lied about the milage this is a crime. You should report this to the police or Attorney General.

oldfarmer50

"...On October 31st, 2005..."

I just re-read your post. You purchased this vehicle over 2 years ago! You can't hold the dealer responsible for things that wear out years after you bought it. Rotors, brakes and belts wear out even on good cars. Depending on the milage all those things could be considered routine repairs.

I still think you have a case if the milage was misrepresented and the emergency brake system was removed.

gogiboy

"I don't know about that. IIRC,several years ago Ricart in here Columbus touted itself as the largest Ford store in the country but they don't do that anymore."

I'm sure most of the claims are hyperbole. I usually visit my folks a couple of times a year in Ann Arbor. There' s a long time Ford dealership (Varsity) that used to have a slogan that said they had more Fords on their lot than anyone except the River Rouge Plant (about 35 miles East). Of course, that doesn't mean they sell the most. Now, I've noticed that they just claim to be the #1 Ford Dealership in MI. They really do have acres of Fords, but the market that was once dominated by the big 4 has been overrun with import dealerships including many high line brands. Varsity Ford now anchors one end of a chain of dealerships that includes BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Mercedes and many others. It's night and day from when I lived there in the 60s and 70s.

Gogiboy

seattlecruiser

You don't have a case unless you can prove that the dealer lied about the mileage. Everything else is just unfortunate, but your problem and nobody else's. Never buy a used car without a pre-purchase inspection. Do you seriously think you can just drop off a car at somebody's lot two years after you bought it and no longer be responsible for the payments? I DON'T THINK SO! Better take your junker and trade it in for something you can afford or you'll be stuck with very high interest rates for a very long time.

joel0622

In the end the only one who loses and has a life changing event in this scenario is you. If it is not to late and your credit is not already crap due to being past due I would get the truck back and do my best to trade it.

jmonroe

I still think you have a case if the milage was misrepresented and the emergency brake system was removed.

I don't know how you would go about proving anything after two years.

In PA we have state inspection and not having an emergency brake system would never have gotten through inspection. Here in PA you would have at least known about any missing safety devices the first time the car went for inspection.

It sounds like 'madredhead' ain't goin to fare too well with any complaints from what I've heard so far.

jmonroe