My Salesperson Misled Me

mikefm58

This story just shows that some people don't value a handshake.

More and more it seems it's not what you agreed to do, but it's what you can get away with after agreeing to terms. And that is from both sides of the table, dealers and customers as well.

mackabee

You got that right. Same thing happened to me once. We shook hands, got a deposit for the vehicle since it was around closing time and made an appointment for the next evening. Well lo and behold, the guy is late and when I call him he doesn't have the cojones to tell me himself so he puts his wife on the phone. "Oh, we bought a car last night after we left your dealership." this are what I call "OH YOU DID?" calls. "Oh, you did? why what happened, I thought we had a deal. You gave me a deposit and shook hands." them "Well, they beat your deal by $50.00 and threw in floor mats." she replied. "Heck my car had the floor mats included. So you mean to tell me you sold me down the river for $50.00 bucks? Unbelievable. So you want me to tear your check or should I deposit it?" I replied, "No you can tear it up." she replied.
I should have deposited and made them go through hell to get their money back. People like that just amaze me.

lrguy44

That is exactly why we get a non refundable depost before we do a dealer trade

jmonroe

I didn't see the car so it's hard to say.

You ducked the question.

The car in question was described as having a nice appearance except that the finish around all edges of doors, trunk, hood, etc was lacking to the point that it was obvious to the dealer the car had been re-painted.

Now, knowing that, that's the one I'd like your store to give me a price on compared to one exactly like it but without a paint job.

jmonroe

mackabee

It's easy to tell when a car has been repainted. No big deal if it was not due to a major wreck. I digress/ My son was driving his Prelude and had a rear tire blow out in July of 2005. He lost control of the car and went down a ravine and luckily he didn't hit any trees or get hurt. It did scare the devil out of him. The car was scratched mostly on one side and more damage was done when it was towed out of the ravine. We had the entire car repainted. We paid what the insurance didn't cover which wasn't that much.
Fast forward to October this year. He sitting behind a Suburban driven by a woman that decides she's just going to back up without looking and then drive away.
My boy described it as if it was in slow motion. He kept honking the horn to no avail. She did about $2100.00 worth of damage. New hood, grille, bumper had to be repainted, new headlight on driver's side. I think the car is jinxed. I told him he should trade it in on a tC. The Prelude is really nice, I drive it once in a while for fun. Gas is expensive since he has to put premium fuel. It's not like the Toyotas that recommend premium for better performance but run fine on 87 octane or higher. This one says it right on the instrument panel, "unleaded premium fuel required"

So anyway, getting back to the subject, if we were to sell it I would tell the prospective buyer about the two mishaps. Honesty is the best policy. We have the records of repairs which were done at one of the MBZ dealers and they have the best reputation in town for body and paint work.
The car looks practically brand new. He babies it a lot.

:shades:

snakeweasel

You got that right.

Yep thats right the same thing happened to me once. We shook hands, made a deposit for the vehicle since it was closing time and made an appointment for the next evening. Came in and the price hand gone up and the financing had changed.

Ok its not exactly the same thing, but you get the drift.

oldfarmer50

"...made a deposit...Came in and the price had gone up...OK its not exactly the same thing..."

I disagree, it's EXACTLY the same thing. :mad:

imidazol97

the sale isn't final until the customer drives the car off the lot. I believe that's been the statement when a customer is unhappy about changes to the purchase agreenment. Most sales people know that's true the other way as well, although it is disappointing to have a the sale fall apart.

I'd have kept their check. When selling a condo near Cincinnati, a person had put down a deposit and then didn't follow through on the purchase. I assumed the deposit had been returned. I knew the Realtor I'd picked knew her job well. Several months after it sold I got an agency check for the amount of the deposit. It had not been returned. Nice bonus for me and my new wife.

snakeweasel

Well the main difference is in my story its the dealership that didn't honor the deal.

mackabee

It's not the same we honored our deal. Had the car cleaned up and ready to go. Had to re-stock back in put the sticker back on the window and back on the front line.
I just don't get it.
Mackabee :shades:

oldfarmer50

"...Well the main difference is in my story its the dealership that didn't honor the deal..."

True, but from a moral perspective there's no difference. How can I call a dealer a crook for taking a deposit and then changing the deal if I make a deposit and then go buy the car elsewhere?

It's no wonder people don't trust your word any more.

oldfarmer50

"...we honored the deal...I just don't get it..."

It's simple. Some people are so selfish and self absorbed that they never think about any one but themselves. I bet if you asked that guy if he understood how much trouble he put you and the dealership through for his $50 he would say: "So what?". It's too bad.

mikefm58

That also happened to me when the Odyssey first came out. We agreed on an OTD price over the net and I even applied for financing through their website. We set up a delivery time for the next day. When I showed up he says, "We can't sell it for that price, it'll be another $500."

obyone

So what did you do?

isellhondas

I didn't duck anything.

It's hard to say. One guy appraising the car might knock it 1000.00 for the repaint and another guy appraising the car might not even catch it. It's like you want me to say..." Oh, we would decrease thhe ACV by 1210.00 because it's been repainted."gain

And again, on a 5000.00 car, it wouldn't affect the value much as compared to a high dollar car.

mikefm58

So what did you do?

I went to a different dealer and bought one. No way would I do business with him.

obyone

Out of curiousity, did you end up paying more than the original deal + $500? Assuming all the specs were the same.

jmonroe

It's hard to say. One guy appraising the car might knock it 1000.00 for the repaint and another guy appraising the car might not even catch it. It's like you want me to say..." Oh, we would decrease thhe ACV by 1210.00 because it's been repainted."gain

If you’re a well run store and I’m sure your store is, I doubt that a paint job would be missed by a professional appraiser. All I wanted you to say was that a paint job would decrease the value of the car. I wasn’t looking for an actual dollar amount.

And again, on a 5000.00 car, it wouldn't affect the value much as compared to a high dollar car.

Since you brought this up, at what price point is a car considered a beater and one that you wouldn’t want on your lot. I’ve been told by a couple guys in the biz that unless a car is very popular and is in great shape for its years and miles they don’t want it. Over the years, I’ve talked to many guys that work in the body and service shops at dealers and they say they’re always looking for cars like this.

Any of you biz guys are free to answer this. Don’t make ‘isell’ do all the work. :surprise:

jmonroe

isellhondas

Once again, it's a judgement call.

Do we keep this thing or do we wholesale it?

We look at the whole picture. How many miles does it have? What are the guys in the shop going to find when they inspect it?

I will say, it seems like every time we take a chance, we get stuck.

A Dodge Caravan comes in. OK, we know these things are hard to sell but it looks pretty good and the miles aren't excessive. We pay to have it detailed and inspected.

Turns out, it needs brakes and another 500.00 in repairs. We fix it up, replace tthe cracked windshield and advertise it.

Then the battery dies and we replace that. Two months later, it still sits. Finally, we give up and take it to the auction and lose 400.00 on it.

Yes, there are cars we don't want.

volvomax

Since you brought this up, at what price point is a car considered a beater and one that you wouldn’t want on your lot. I’ve been told by a couple guys in the biz that unless a car is very popular and is in great shape for its years and miles they don’t want it. Over the years, I’ve talked to many guys that work in the body and service shops at dealers and they say they’re always looking for cars like this.

Well, that depends on the dealership and its clientele.
A Lexus store would probably consider a 2000 Honda Accord a beater, yet that car may be front line merchandise at a Hyundai store.
If the car is less than 4 yrs old, and is popular,having a repaint is the kiss of death.
There are simply too many other unmolested cars out there in the marketplace.
What a guy who works in a bodyshop wants and what a regular consumer wants or will accpet are 2 differnt things.
A guy in the biz would be more accepting of such a car because he can judge how much work was done,and how well it was done.Plus, he knows that he isn't going to pay the going rate for such a car anyway.

mikefm58

Yes I did pay more than the original offer from the first dealer as this was when they first came out and took the market so quickly. I don't recall the exact figures but I refused to do business with the original dealer at any price.

jboxton

Something left out of a lot of these scenarios- dealer's don't know when rebates change and they don't always just change at the beginning of the month. People come in and agree on a car and say they want a few days to think about it. We would tell them we can't guarantee that price for any other day than today because we don't know what the rebates are going to be. They roll their eyes and say OK because they think we are giving them a sales pitch to take the car today. Some of my best times were when the idiot would come back and we tell them the rebates changed and it's going to be 500 more. That would bring me happiness.

oldfarmer50

"...Some of my best times were when the idiot would come back and we tell them the rebates changed and it's going to be $500 more..."

Assuming you explained the rebate situation before the customer left and after he came back it's his tough luck. Sometimes delaying a decision has it's consequences.

I think the case mikefm58 was talking about involved a "bump" without any justification. That's just greedy.

You say that charging these idiots an extra $500 would bring you joy. Is that only if they paid the money and took the car or would you be just as happy if they call called you a crook and walked out?

jboxton

"You say that charging these idiots an extra $500 would bring you joy. Is that only if they paid the money and took the car or would you be just as happy if they call called you a crook and walked out?"

Either. Well actually let me explain. We would tell the customer that rebates can change daily and then they roll their eyes saying, "Yeah right...whatever...you guys just try to make us take the car today. That's a usual salesman lie. These rebates won't change in a day or two".

Those are the ones that it feels good to charge more. I am in PA and we have the strictest laws in the US regarding automobile purchases. Knowing that, it angers me that people STILL think we were always trying to get something over on them. Good for them.

jmonroe

Some of my best times were when the idiot would come back and we tell them the rebates changed and it's going to be 500 more. That would bring me happiness.

Spite never sold or bought a car.

Now, having said that, I cancelled a deal the next day when I went back to pick up a used car (86’ Grand Prix in 88’) because the dealer didn’t put in a spare tire, which he said he was going to do.

It was too late for me to do the final inspection like I wanted to do and they agreed that I could come back the next day to pick it up. When I went back, the SM said, “you could have taken that car last night and came back for the tire. Now I don't want to put a spare in that car; this deal is already a PITA”. I said, “where do I go to get my deposit back, that’s not what you said last night”. When I started to walk away he said, “OK, I’ll find you a tire, there are a lot of those space saving tires around here, give me a minute”. I said, “why didn’t you say that a minute ago” and he said, “I wanted to see what you would do”. :surprise: I said, “I don’t play games like that, I don’t want the car, all I want is my deposit. He then said, ‘C’mon, I was kidding, can’t you take a joke” and I walked away. As I was going to get my deposit I could hear him yelling, “I said I’d find you a tire didn’t I and I’ll take another 50 bucks off, that’s all I have left in this deal to give you”. I got my check and left.

I know that was spiteful and three days later I went across the street and bought an 85’ Grand Prix, for less money, of course. (That car wasn’t on that lot three days before when I looked, just before I was about to buy the 86’).

My oldest son, who was in high school, still tells me I bought the wrong car. Since he had no input/money in the deal he didn’t get to make that call. But like I said to this day he still says I bought the wrong car. I, the one with the money, still disagree with him.

jmonroe

mikefm58

You totally misunderstood what I said and then also wrote things that are so far off base in my example.

We both agreed on a price AND the financing AND a delivery date & time. I showed up and he refused to honor the price. This was all done over the net. Just because other customers are jerks doesn't give him the right to treat me as one.

oldfarmer50

"...they roll their eyes saying "Yeah right"..."

Before I went to a dealer I would check the end date for any rebates. If the saleman told me something different than my research indicated I would ask him to show me proof. If I didn't believe him I'd probably walk but if I turned out to be wrong I wouldn't be mad at any one but myself. In that case I would pay the extra money because the salesman was being straight with me.

lrguy44

When we get an incentive (and ours are in dealer cash, not rebates) it will usually run until the end of the quarter. On the first business day of the next quarter we find out if it is still in place or not.

venture

Those are the ones that it feels good to charge more. I am in PA and we have the strictest laws in the US regarding automobile purchases.

Would you mind saying what dealer you are at, or what brand you sell, or what area of PA?

I live in PA and I want to make sure I never go there.

tidester

Would you mind saying ...

I don't mind saying that thread is over.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

jmonroe

I don't mind saying that thread is over.

Talk about being saved by the bell and I wasn't worried about us.

jmonroe

isellhondas

We don't have to worry about us.

We have others that do that for us here.

joel0622

He just proves my old adage is true.
"There are a few people in this business that work real hard every day to give us all a bad name."

BTW the state with the most stringent guide lines for automobile purchases is California.

isellhondas

I believe it and as a long time CA resident, I would have to say, they brought this on themselves.

oldfarmer50

"...ours are in dealer cash, not rebates..."

I never considered the "double secret handshake money". That's a tough one. If a salesman told me the deal was only good for today because a dealer cash incentive might not be renewed I'm not quite sure what I would do. I guess it would depend on how much I trusted the salesman. :confuse:

nthe

"Yes they do its a one year guarantee, but its limited to DMV-reported incidents. Take that for what its worth. "

i'm looking at a carfax report right now, and the only buyback guarantee they offer is on title problems. they guarantee the title to be clear for 1 year for problems reported to the DMV for the title only.

joel0622

It is a clean title guarantee nothing else. The car may have been hit more times then Joe Lewis but if it was not enough damage to constitute a Salvage/Branded, etc title then there is no guarantee.

mackabee

Joel, it's "hit more times than Muhammed Ali" Not Joe Lewis. He didn't get hit much.

Mack

fezo

And it's spelled Louis....

lemko

What if the paint job was superior to that of the OEM?

lrguy44

A repaint is a repain is a repaint. In other words, a repaint by any other name is a repaint.

deskman

New car buyer

1. you know what we paid ,you know the rebates,you know the factory finance plan.
So be Realistic or at least in the same hemisphere.

2.The salesman is not going to maui on the commission.SO be nice.

3. Send in the csi question cards.Please contact us if you dont understand a feature or equipment operation. Please do not grade your sales person for thing not
in his control.( pop can in parking lot,cust parking is full,selection of product, finance, )

4. do demand that your car has a full tank ,car is in working order,car is clean.if any option are to be added have a due bill with the gsm signiture.

5.you drive it over the curb you own it.dont come back 3 days later saying you dont like the color,gas milage,or the bad vibes it gives your karma.

6. If your salesperson treated you well treat him well.most sales people make between 100 to 250 on average per car in todays internet world.they sell 8 to 12 cars per month on average and work 60 plus hours per week.

I always tip my salesperson when Mrs Deskman gets a new porsche/bmw/mercedes and soon to be volvo c 70.

7. your trade is not worth xtra clean.if it has knee deep in rubber with everythink shining with 5 k per yr milage it may bring clean blackbook.Most trades are worth average book for a real nice car with milage 12k per yr.if it has a dent high miles or a repaint/repaired wreck your looking at rough book with a deduct for miles

8. buy gap unless you put 40% down or pay cash.

Used car buyer

1.Your buying a used so ask for extra key and owners hand book up front.Most of you who trade never include it they throw it away.

2.get a car fax

3.get a factory or a fidelity service contract

4. used cars have scratches dings and stains thats why it is cheaper.

5. if you have a service contract dont bring a chevy to a honda store for warranty work.

6 look at kelly blue book or nada retail and thats what you should pay.some model you will pay more if it is a needle in haystack super turbo pie mobile.

7. once you drive over the curb you own it.

8.unless you pay cash get gap.

jipster

...look at kelly blue book or nada retail and thats what you should pay

You've got to be joking? I can only guess you must be trying to make up that 250k drop in income from a few years ago, as that is absolutely the worst advice I've ever read on these forums. Enjoy your posts though.

cccompson

But don't, of course, expect to get book on your trade.

Naturally

deskman

Profit is not a dirty word . pull out the nasa (north american supermarket association)guide next time your at safeway and they will laugh at you.

oldfarmer50

"...your trade...may be worth clean BLACKBOOK..."
"... look at KELLY BLUE BOOK or NADA retail and that's what you should pay..."

Just curious, you use blackbook for trade-in which in my experience is not available to the public but Kelly and NADA for purchase. Any reason for that?

snakeweasel

While profit is not a dirty word it is also not a guarantee.

jipster

Profit is not a dirty word

LOL. If you're pulling down $750,000 a year I'd say profit is alive and well. Most of us regulars here know better than to pay dealer retail for a used car... that's absurd.

That you have spent 23 years selling/desking cars, at 60+ hours a week, is testament to the fact that you've completely lost touch with the consumer's point of view on what is acceptable profit. "Saving-money" is not a dirty word either, so I would suggest paying between dealer trade-in and private party.

joel0622

Just curious, you use blackbook for trade-in which in my experience is not available to the public but Kelly and NADA for purchase. Any reason for that?

Its available, you just have to pay a subscription for it.

Dealers can't access it for free either.

We pay around $400 a year for the books and another $80 or so for the on line subscription.

blackbook

imidazol97

Most salesmen tell us how a used tradein is not worth anywhere near Kelly, Edmunds, etc. They say it's some (obscure to me) Manheim or another value rating service value which is always much lower. The reason is they can go to the auction and pick up a car like yours for auction value.

So now used car buyers should pay the excessively high Kelly or Edmunds retail values even though their tradein values are too high. Huh? :confuse: