We encourage people to check out KBB on there trade before coming in. It is very close 80% of the time in our market. We open allot of deals with a KBB print out.
The reason is they can go to the auction and pick up a car like yours for auction value.
That's why starting at dealer trade-in, when buying, isn't as crazy as it sounds. Dealerships don't pay trade-in value on the used cars they buy, most will buy your car at auction value. We the consumer may be winning the new car battle, but we are getting clubbed like baby seals on pre-owned. :sick:
Long time ago we were looking for an SUV and were at a Honda store. The salesman took me out back to look at a CR-V that he would let go real (and I mean real) cheap. It was brand new and never titled but it was riced out with a paint job only a pimp could love. I swear if I would have bought it the very first thing I would have done is a real good paint job on that thing.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you're pulling down $750,000 a year I'd say profit is alive and well.
You sound like you don’t believe him. Don’t you know everything on the internet is true?
Most of us regulars here know better than to pay dealer retail for a used car... that's absurd.
We don’t know squat and you know it but we’re gonna get an education whether we want one or not. I only read about half of this stuff so nobody is gonna club me like a baby seal.
That you have spent 23 years selling/desking cars, at 60+ hours a week, is testament to the fact that you've completely lost touch with the consumer's point of view on what is acceptable profit.
The few times I worked more than 45 hours a week I thought the world was coming to an end. To do this on a regular basis explains why we consumers don’t know how to talk to the guys in the biz. While our heads are clear and ready for buying, theirs have shut down.
Saving-money" is not a dirty word either, so I would suggest paying between dealer trade-in and private party.
Well, we know who you ain’t goin to be buying a car from but if you’re open to that education I mentioned above, you’ll be able to buy from anyone. So pay attention. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I would say that he is not inflating his income figures. If a store can sell 100+ in a weekend not countin the other 4 days in a week then you as the GM are going to make some large cash.
I am an F&I Mgr, he is a GM, they sell 10 times the units we do there is no reason to doubt his income is 10 times what mine is.
I am having a very busy day. featured 6 cpo cars in ad 200 to choose from and i am sitting on 46 used 3 new @ 2 pm.
I guess the buying public like how i price my used i have them sitting in the car they want to purchase waiting for a salesperson to become available.
I would trade my job for something with less stress and less income but i have no other skills except automotive retail.
I wish i only worked 60 hours a week. i average 75 + hours a week.i do have the freedom to take 4 weeks a year holiday.( those lavish factory trips :shades: )
I enjoy these forums ,the forum provides me a way to destress and have a laugh chatting about a topic that i eat ,live and breath.
Every one have a great day ,i am sneaking out early to buy a crib and changing table for my expected newborn. i hope its a girl because i can only afford 1 motorhead in the family.
Auction cars come front line ready no recon at all.fees $120 to $300 plus transport.if you buy over x amount transport is free.If you buy XXX amount you make seller pay all auction and transport fees.
CPO cars come with a CPO factory warranty
I will not look at a private trade widget vrs same year miles and option cpo widget for equal money.cpo widget is always worth more than private widget. Private widget needs recon,service,detail and has less warranty as cpo widget.
none volume private widgets are a different story.a couple may run at the sale every week and you may only look at one as a trade every few weeks.if they are not a volume car i dont buy at auction and hit them light in the book in case i have to sit on it for a few book cycles.
Agreed - Many people here think we buy a car at auction, mark it up 10 ponds and grin. After recon, a couple book drops can bring a car to it's knees. They also do not realize that on our cars tires, w/s, pads and rotors plus certification can cost $4-5k in some cases.
Sending a car to our service department for CPO inspections pretty much totals it. By the time they get done with it we end up with some units that need GAP insurance on them just to sit on the lot.
Trust me that and what the guy offered me would have been way under sticker. Apparently they took it as a dealer trade sight unseen and it came to them all riced out. They were willing to lose a bundle to get rid of it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
LOL, having a girl is no guarantee of not having a motorhead!
My son has just about zero interest in cars. They are transportation devices to him. His younger sister fell in love with the New Beetle when they came out. She collected books and models. Knew the colors, specs, and differences between years.
When she got her learner's permit in '05, we started looking for one. Offered to buy her a new '05 in red at year end clearance and she rejected it! She wanted Cyber Green and only Cyber Green.
Ended up going 500 miles to New Jersey to get her a very low mileage '99 which she'll no doubt drive through college.
All KBB does here is muddy the waters. They are considerably higher than NADA (Rocky Mtn Edition) and MMR. Our customers want to sell at KBB retail and but at NADA wholesale.
Our shop used to charge us 65 dollars an hour when full retail for high skill was 95 dollars an hour and low skill was 65 dollars an hour. A few months ago an edict came down from above that sales would now be charged 85 dollars an hour no matter what type of job it was.
So depending what kind of job it is we could actually be charged 20 dollars more an hour then a regular customer.
Don't know why paying dealer "retail" should be considered good buying advice, which deskman wrote is what the consumer should pay. I certainly would be interested in any theories, or explanation, you or he may have on the matter.
I wasn't trying to "put down" anyone, but how the heck is paying retail in the consumers best interest? As an example, I got $1,500 off Kelly retail on my Buick Regal when bought pre-owned 3 1/2 years ago... took about 15 minutes to negotiate. Are you two saying I should be more concerned with providing cash flow to the salesperson and dealerships family than my own? :surprise:
Are you two saying I should be more concerned with providing cash flow to the salesperson and dealerships family than my own?
Take care of your family before anything else.But please let us make a profit or the whole of america will be dealing with a call center in a third world country to buy/repair your automobiles.
In the eighties as a salesperson i made 80k to 120k ,today the sales people make 25k to 100k in 2007 dollars (us dollar is worthless in 2007)
The guy making $100+ grand a year is selling laydowns the guy making $25 gran is dealing with cheap charlie/i want the holdback (cheap charlie does not even trust his mom or wife and will negotiate at a salvation army store)
It's understandable that your definition of a "fair profit" would be different than mine as a consumer. Many young salesmen struggle to earn a decent living the first few years (from what I've read). So, while admirable that you like to see your employees earn good money ( a happy employee is a good employee) ... I still can't phantom anyone suggesting to pay retail on pre-owned, whether it be Kia, Buick, Honda or BMW.
I'm not a grinder and believe in leaving an acceptable amount to the dealership in getting a deal done. But, as a consumer paying retail without negotiating for a better deal is throwing my good money away.
Welcome to Edmunds though... damn you make a lot of money. Maybe, I should try getting on your good side.
No, that Buick was so far "back of book" (as they are) that it was brought in at a grand less than wholesale or more.
So, Jipster paid 1500.00 less than retail book and thought he got a great deal. He probably paid the market value for that Buick.
deskman, I have been here since these forums began and the thing I have NEVER been able to convince people of is the fact that the MARKET is what determines pricing. Not what our invoice happens to be, not what we happen to have invested in a used car, and NOT what some "book" happens to say.
Jipster was happy with the deal he got and the store was probably happy to see it sell.
Two parties that were satisfied with the deal and THAT is all that really matters!
Jipster, WHY does every car in this world have to be discounted?
Popular cars that are in high demand will sell for what they are worth and that is what the market dictates.
Buicks are dogs on the market. Not bad cars. I still have a 1989 Le Sabre T-Type that I bought new. Most people unlike you and me, aren't very fond of them.
The MARKET will determine what is "fair" or "acceptable".
Jipster probably got an excellent car but I'm sure others will buy something not so good just because of how much "discount" they could have received from the book values.
The dealer paid nada or black book 6 months before you bought the buick .then he bite his finger nails until you offered 1500 under.
Actually, the dealership purchased my Buick Regal from a private owner only 2 weeks before I bought it. In looking at the Carfax report, that I conviently kept , it shows the dealers inventory date (Vehicle offered for sale) on 3/31/2004. The purchase date in which I drove the vehicle home was 4/12/2004. Not bad for a Buick huh?
Oh, I don't know. I took in a 1998 Park Avenue recently with 80,000 miles that was VERY nice. They ride like a dream, smooth and quiet and not bad gas mileage.
Our UCM was afraid that it would rot on our lot so he wholesaled it. Too bad, it was a lot of car for the money!
Jipster, WHY does every car in this world have to be discounted?
I agree, not every car should be discounted. But, I'm sure you won't dispute the fact that roughly 90% of preowned vehicles have enough money padded onto what the dealership paid for it, that it would be prudent for a consumer to look for a discount?
I love my Buick. That it depreciated like a rock after being bought new saved me a lot of money. It's a good quality (fit and finish not that great), reliable (knock on wood), nice looking, comfortable, and semi-luxurious car... for not a lot of money.
By the way, if you exclude the $299 dealers fee typed into the contract, I got the car for almost $1,800 off retail.
Comments
That's why starting at dealer trade-in, when buying, isn't as crazy as it sounds. Dealerships don't pay trade-in value on the used cars they buy, most will buy your car at auction value. We the consumer may be winning the new car battle, but we are getting clubbed like baby seals on pre-owned. :sick:
Our son has a 1993 Ford Explorer that was in a major accident when it was almost new. It was rolled on it's side.
It has ZERO ill effects and unless I told you, you would never know.
Your advise will just be scofffed at by a few people who know more than we do.
Many others, like yourself have come and gone after constantly being challenged by these people and put down.
I hope you stick around!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You sound like you don’t believe him. Don’t you know everything on the internet is true?
Most of us regulars here know better than to pay dealer retail for a used car... that's absurd.
We don’t know squat and you know it but we’re gonna get an education whether we want one or not. I only read about half of this stuff so nobody is gonna club me like a baby seal.
That you have spent 23 years selling/desking cars, at 60+ hours a week, is testament to the fact that you've completely lost touch with the consumer's point of view on what is acceptable profit.
The few times I worked more than 45 hours a week I thought the world was coming to an end. To do this on a regular basis explains why we consumers don’t know how to talk to the guys in the biz. While our heads are clear and ready for buying, theirs have shut down.
Saving-money" is not a dirty word either, so I would suggest paying between dealer trade-in and private party.
Well, we know who you ain’t goin to be buying a car from but if you’re open to that education I mentioned above, you’ll be able to buy from anyone. So pay attention. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I am an F&I Mgr, he is a GM, they sell 10 times the units we do there is no reason to doubt his income is 10 times what mine is.
I ain't mad, just jealous
I guess the buying public like how i price my used i have them sitting in the car they want to purchase waiting for a salesperson to become available.
I would trade my job for something with less stress and less income but i have no other skills except automotive retail.
I wish i only worked 60 hours a week. i average 75 + hours a week.i do have the freedom to take 4 weeks a year holiday.( those lavish factory trips :shades: )
I enjoy these forums ,the forum provides me a way to destress and have a laugh chatting about a topic that i eat ,live and breath.
Every one have a great day ,i am sneaking out early to buy a crib and changing table for my expected newborn. i hope its a girl because i can only afford 1 motorhead in the family.
CPO cars come with a CPO factory warranty
I will not look at a private trade widget vrs same year miles and option cpo widget for equal money.cpo widget is always worth more than private widget. Private widget needs recon,service,detail and has less warranty as cpo widget.
none volume private widgets are a different story.a couple may run at the sale every week and you may only look at one as a trade every few weeks.if they are not a volume car i dont buy at auction and hit them light in the book in case i have to sit on it for a few book cycles.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My son has just about zero interest in cars. They are transportation devices to him. His younger sister fell in love with the New Beetle when they came out. She collected books and models. Knew the colors, specs, and differences between years.
When she got her learner's permit in '05, we started looking for one. Offered to buy her a new '05 in red at year end clearance and she rejected it! She wanted Cyber Green and only Cyber Green.
Ended up going 500 miles to New Jersey to get her a very low mileage '99 which she'll no doubt drive through college.
That would make it unavailable to me.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Am I the only one with a Used car Department that pays full retail in the shop?
Or you can take it to one of the "chains" and get the 299.00 special and have your car ruined in the process.
I guess I live in the past when it comes to prices of things.
You do realize you owe me a new keyboard....
So depending what kind of job it is we could actually be charged 20 dollars more an hour then a regular customer.
I wasn't trying to "put down" anyone, but how the heck is paying retail in the consumers best interest? As an example, I got $1,500 off Kelly retail on my Buick Regal when bought pre-owned 3 1/2 years ago... took about 15 minutes to negotiate. Are you two saying I should be more concerned with providing cash flow to the salesperson and dealerships family than my own? :surprise:
Perhaps you would care to explain your position on paying retail as questioned in previous post?
Take care of your family before anything else.But please let us make a profit or the whole of america will be dealing with a call center in a third world country to buy/repair your automobiles.
In the eighties as a salesperson i made 80k to 120k ,today the sales people make 25k to 100k in 2007 dollars (us dollar is worthless in 2007)
The guy making $100+ grand a year is selling laydowns the guy making $25 gran is dealing with cheap charlie/i want the holdback (cheap charlie does not even trust his mom or wife and will negotiate at a salvation army store)
That night mrs dealer was giving flowers and a blue box by mr dealer after he closed you.
a 2000 dollar loss on a buick is better than a 2000 dollar profit on a toyota in my book.
I'm not a grinder and believe in leaving an acceptable amount to the dealership in getting a deal done. But, as a consumer paying retail without negotiating for a better deal is throwing my good money away.
Welcome to Edmunds though... damn you make a lot of money. Maybe, I should try getting on your good side.
So, Jipster paid 1500.00 less than retail book and thought he got a great deal. He probably paid the market value for that Buick.
deskman, I have been here since these forums began and the thing I have NEVER been able to convince people of is the fact that the MARKET is what determines pricing. Not what our invoice happens to be, not what we happen to have invested in a used car, and NOT what some "book" happens to say.
Jipster was happy with the deal he got and the store was probably happy to see it sell.
Two parties that were satisfied with the deal and THAT is all that really matters!
trucks are different import truck you steal american you pay book.
Suv = WELL BELOW BOOK FOR NOW
Popular cars that are in high demand will sell for what they are worth and that is what the market dictates.
Buicks are dogs on the market. Not bad cars. I still have a 1989 Le Sabre T-Type that I bought new. Most people unlike you and me, aren't very fond of them.
The MARKET will determine what is "fair" or "acceptable".
The only buicks i ever put strong money in would be the 85 thru 87 regal t types ,GN and GNX models.
Down in florida buicks are sold at estate sales.
Jipster probably got an excellent car but I'm sure others will buy something not so good just because of how much "discount" they could have received from the book values.
Actually, the dealership purchased my Buick Regal from a private owner only 2 weeks before I bought it. In looking at the Carfax report, that I conviently kept
Our UCM was afraid that it would rot on our lot so he wholesaled it. Too bad, it was a lot of car for the money!
I agree, not every car should be discounted. But, I'm sure you won't dispute the fact that roughly 90% of preowned vehicles have enough money padded onto what the dealership paid for it, that it would be prudent for a consumer to look for a discount?
I love my Buick. That it depreciated like a rock after being bought new saved me a lot of money. It's a good quality (fit and finish not that great), reliable (knock on wood), nice looking, comfortable, and semi-luxurious car... for not a lot of money.
By the way, if you exclude the $299 dealers fee typed into the contract, I got the car for almost $1,800 off retail.