What is average miles? 12K? 15K?. A 2007 S550 with only 24K miles on it for around $45K would still be tempting as long as the car has a clean history and a stellar warranty. I'd fear one out of warranty.
Average miles compared to normal cars, as a lot of these cars are leases and are driven as commuters. As the W221 hit the streets in February or March of 06, I see average miles as 30-40K. I have seen 07 S550 down to about 45K with ca. 45K miles. The cars have apparently had few trouble areas, especially compared to the previous car.
The lowest-priced 2007 S550 I saw listed near me was one with close to 49K miles and at some used car lot I never heard of. They wanted a little over $50K for it. That's a lot of miles for a two year-old car. My 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance only has 9,660 on it as of today.
What are the trouble areas? Is a 2007 S550 a better car than my brother-in-law's 2000 S430? I sure hope so!
That's a high mileage lease return no doubt...and I am sure if you showed up with 45K in your pocket or a pre-approved loan, they'd let you drive away in it. But yeah, those miles are higher than I would want too. Even if it is a 3 year old car, I wouldn't be thrilled.
I like cars as you like them - low miles and babied. My E55 was 4 years old and had 27K miles on it when I bought it. That's a nicer annual mileage.
Something like your E55 is more the type I'm looking for. High-mileage cars like the one in the ad I mentioned tend to be dirty and a bit banged-up as the previous owner was so busy he probably had little time to baby his car. He probably did a lot of eating, drinking, and perhaps smoking in it as did his passengers.
Still, the S550 is a very grand-looking automobile and probably infinitely more reliable with the V-8 than the S600 with the turbocharged V-12.
Especially high mileage east coast cars - I would not want something used as a commuter in NYC or Philly etc - the roads and climate are not nice to cars. I like local (west coast) cars with traceable private ownership history.
The W221 is proving to be pretty reliable and solid - the biggest complaints I see are from the complexity of the controls. That's a non issue for me. In another 18 months or so you'll be able to get those cars for closer to 30-35K no doubt. If you can score a low mileage high optioned model then for that, it would be a better deal.
If it came out in 2006 and most of them have under 50k miles, it may be too early to see widespread trouble spots. I'm guessing they have "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid?
I want to say MB had ditched the asinine lifetime sealed transmission ideal by 2006...I think it was so troublesome it went away around 2003.
Both my E55 and my C43 were built under that rule...one of the first things I did when I bought the C43 was to have the transmission serviced. I took it to the stealership, and they gave me the story about it being a lifetime service interval. I replied with something to the effect that if that was the case, would they then replace it for free when it failed? I didn't get an answer...it had around 50K on it then. My E55 is going to roll over 40K this year, and I plan to have the transmission serviced in it by the end of the year.
I agree 3 years isn't enough to judge the W221...but it has to be better than the W220...by the time that one had been out 3 years, the bugs were well known.
Another local lot has a fully loaded 06 E55. It looked to have every option per the pics, but I couldn't see if it had active seats...it had vented seats anyway, along with the other techie nicknacks. This one has unusual factory chrome wheels, another car that was probably around 100K out the door, if not marginally more. 40K miles, a nice grey color...they are asking 38K, I suspect if you offered 34K or even a little less they'd take it.
I've seen more than one 05 C55 for 25K or so...if an 08 C63 is similar money in 2012, I will be sorely tempted. I'll take one loaded to the hilt...I need something unusual.
Local Porsche dealer had an 06 Quattroporte for 48K, that must have been around 125K or so when new I guess (?). I think it sold fast though, they only had it listed for about a week. That dealer group is also notorious for inflating an asking price and then bargaining, so I wonder what it went for. A friend of mine saw it and was salivating over it.
I chose the photo because it shows off the grey, as many people think the car is black :confuse:
It's trying to become a project car now. In the past 24 hours, I have noticed a creak in low speed sharp turns - must be a worn suspension component. When I was filling up yesterday, right when the auto shut of/top off point was reached, the tank "burped" and got gas all over my hands and the side of the car (which means I had to wax the rear quarter panel), and the best part is now the AC is acting up like it did 2 years ago - air barely cooler than ambient air, and a weird metallic sounding hiss. It did this before and the problem was simple valve that of course cost just more than the warranty deductible.
So, if you buy a used high end car, have a warranty!
Actually it worked well once I got it fixed the first time, and last summer. But now we are in our first "warm" spell of the year (70F) and yesterday it was pretty useless.
The car has been relatively problem free since I have owned it, the warranty coming in handy for its early problems. I guess I shouldn't complain. It hasn't needed more than regular servicing and a side marker bulb since May 2007.
Yep, that's my 'modern' car as I call it. Thanks....it does shine up pretty well, but it is a high maintenance color, almost as bad as a dark blue or black. The AC works fine when working properly...but I had it out again today, and the air coming out of it was barely colder than ambient air. I am taking it into the shop next week.
Your Volvo accumulates mileage about as fast as my E55...but it gets driven at least every other day usually. I'll probably have it for a while...they have really taken a beating, and I couldn't get anything nearly as nice for what it is worth now.
Today I dropped off the E55 to have the AC checked out...and sitting in the lot for the shop was a W211 with E63 wheels, exhaust tips, and bumpers. I suspected a fake, so I went and looked it over - low and behold, no AMG interior. Not only that, but a sign hanging from the mirror saying "Danger - Do not drive - NO BRAKES". There's a used luxury car trying the patience of its owner.
And a day and a half later I got the E55 back. An AC hose had cracked, draining the coolant. Easy enough to diagnose, $70 part...but 3.5 hours of labor, and the warranty company isn't wanting to cover it, claiming a rubber hose is some kind of maintenance item. I don't think I will contest the decision as I am sure the paperwork is written that way and the mechanic said they gave him a lot of attitude when he debated that idea. I guess one repair in 2 years isn't too bad, but I'm a few hundred dollars poorer.
I also suspect now that my warranty payout equals what I paid, they will do anything possible to reject a claim.
Sorry for the large tab for a relatively minor repair, fintail. Buy new, and you have heavy depreciation. Buy used, and you spend relatively more on repairs and maintenance. There's no getting around the fact that cars are expensive, and luxury cars are more so. That said, you can buy a lot of extra maintenance and repairs with what you save by buying used.
I think it makes sense to buy luxury cars used, since the enhancements of the past several years - mainly electronic safety and convenience features - add little or nothing to one's driving pleasure. Further, in my opinion there have been few significant styling advances. What I mean by that is that, to me, an well preserved '86 E-Class looks just as good as an '09. Reasonable people can nit pick on model year comparisons, but the point I'm trying to make is that, unlike the '50s and '60s, say, when new models seemed to almost always look better than the ones they replaced (at least it certainly seemed to back then), that's not so true today.
That's a long winded way of saying that you're doing about as well as one can with your E55, especially since you seem to really enjoy this car.
The repairs are a lot cheaper than the depreciation, for sure.
I bought the car when it was 4 years old for ca. 35% of original MSRP, when it had 27K miles on it. I spent another $2500 or so on a 4 year warranty. When I bought it the instrument cluster had a few dead pixels - $1000 warranty job. At the same time the rear sunshade died - $1300 warranty job. Combine that with the $300 AC repair it had 2 years ago, and I've broken even, and still have the warranty through next year. Those are the only issues the car has had. It'll need a few small things soon - I like to do a transmission service early, and I suspect a suspension bushing or part is starting to wear. But otherwise, it's been very solid. I like it because it sounds good, it looks pretty decent, it drives nicely, it's powerful and comfortable, and it's not even that bad on gas, all things considered. It's also very unusual, which I admit it a significant attraction for me.
All high end cars are depreciating like mad right now. A genuinely nice W210 E55 can be had for 15K now, and even a better than average one like mine won't go much past 17-18K or so. It's a lot of bang for the buck.
Funny thing, when picking up my car I was talking to the mechanic, and he mentioned the W124 as one was parked there. He believes they are the best modern car MB has built, a "tank" in his words. Clean timeless styling and usually very good mechanicals. A 500E would be very cool to have.
Speaking of the W124, so if they are possibly the best modern car MB built, that means I could get something like, say, a mid-90s E300 diesel for around $5000-$7000? That is, if it has decent mileage and is clean inside and out. I like all my cars to be meticulous whether or not they're being driven on a regular basis.
Another point I wanted to make- I don't see mid-90s Benz diesels on the road that much, I don't know why. I see a lot of ratty, tired W123s and some W126 300SDs putting around. Maybe Benz didn't produce a lot of diesels in the 90s? Just my $.02 worth, although I did see a W140 350SD a few weeks ago parked on a street in DC. It was in amazing, immaculate condition, unlike a lot of 140s I usually see.
I think you got it - there weren't many diesels sold in the '90s, gas was so cheap. I liken those w123 diesels to cockroaches - can't kill them, and they come out when the light's off (gas prices are high) :P
Americans generally hate diesel passenger cars. It's a very small niche market. The only reason you see a lot of W123s is that they were very good cars, sold in very high numbers (relative to any other time in America) and despite the agony they are put through, they refuse to die. If I were rich, I'd buy all these old suffering smoking wrecks and give them a decent funeral, or maybe restore them.
Even during the Golden Age of Diesels in America, the diesel car market never exceeded something like 6%. Would you invest hundreds of millions of dollars to share a 6% market with other competitors? I'm not so sure I would.
I think the future of diesels in America is in entry-level, turbo diesel subcompacts and of course in dual wheel Pickups.
Around here, the trend is to install stacks on your diesel pickup (I'm guessing with no muffler). I can only assume that the tall, straight pipes mean that the driver's family tree doesn't fork.
Well on a positive note, at least the pickup with stacks isn't pumping diesel fumes into my driver's window. I mean, aside from a masonry contractor or a horse ranch, who NEEDS these monsters?
I think you could find a later W124 diesel for that money, yeah. They are easy to distinguish as they have funny horizontal vents on the front fenders. A low mileage one might be hard to find though...MB diesels attract people who like to drive them. That's why a lot of the older cars are looking worn, too...they are all likely well over a quarter million miles.
I think the late W124 diesel is a relatively rare car, I am sure on a year per year basis more were sold of the 1987 only (I think) 300D. The diesel fad was long gone by the late 80s.
A W140 diesel is very rare...I think that's the engine (350SD) that had a lot of problems, too, it was either that or the late 300.
I have seen diesel trucks around here with weird exhaust whistles or modifications to make them mimic the sound of a semi. It's pretty lame. Family trees that don't fork combined with size issues.
I know the early W210s had some teething issues but I'm sure this particular example has had all the bugs worked out. And I'm also sure that at a mere 131k miles it's not done yet.
That doesn't look bad, no. Early W210 issues include rust under the car and in a few body areas, door seals, and odd random electrical issues. If all of that checks out, it could be worth a gamble - and being a diesel you always have the plus of easy resale if you tire of it. It's strange seeing how relatively spartan that car is inside compared to mine.
Another odd thing to mention, the early W210s fared worse in crash tests than later cars.
It's strange seeing how relatively spartan that car is inside compared to mine.
Does that car have real leather, or is that the MBTex stuff? In some pics, it looks more like heavy duty vinyl Just something about the way it's shiny, and the texture, doesn't quite seem leathery to me.
But then I could be wrong. I've seen some pretty convincing vinyls in my time, but then I've seen some leathers that are cheap looking enough they might as well be vinyl!
Yeah, I have seen some pretty bad leather in old European cars, especially 80s models - and I won't start on leather issues in early Lexus. I don't seem to see that so much when I look at cars that live in Europe.
I give my leather a conditioning every 3-4 months or so.
It's the rare older Saab or Volvo you'll see with any good leather left---and first year Lexus, too---all had very poor leather. I'm not sure if the hides were poor quality or if it was how they were processed (I suspect the latter).
Buying an old Luxury car with bad leather is a bad buy, because replacement costs are staggering, and even though outsiders can't see in, you feel like you're driving a junk heap.
That's why on "Wheeler Dealers" they seek to find nice seats in a heap and put them in their flip car, no doubt. I'd shudder to think what it would cost to properly reupholster a W126.
That's a huge influence in what attracted me to my W126 too - the original owner had kept the interior spotless.
It looks like a nice car, but this is NOT a Designo car - the weirdo two tone leather was a no cost option and was never available as a W210 Designo package. No massage seats on the W210 IIRC either.
A local dealer does have a rare Designo W211 E55, 2004, in "graphite", ca. 30K miles, well optioned but overpriced at 37K. I like the color a lot.
Even if you can afford a new one, the value is definitely with a nicely maintained used one. The same applies to non AMG Benzes. For example, I find it difficult to justify the price difference between a new C-300 and, say, an Accord. By the time they're three or four years old, though, the market has reduced the premium price of the Mercedes, where you're paying significantly less for the name and heritage, in my opinion. As used cars, the respective prices of the C-Class and Accord is based more on their utilitarian value than when they're in the showroom.
I think 1-3 years old is the time to lunge at a used luxury car. The major depreciation has occurred, but the "expendables" that are so costly, like suspension, belts, hoses, brake rotors, tires---may not be so tired yet.
IMO the "deadly" mileage for a used luxury car with high maintenance costs is around 80K. At this mileage the car is still relatively new, and probably still looks very good, but could in fact have thousands of $$$ in either deferred or needed maintenance coming right up on you.
And once the clock turns 100K on a used luxury car, the value automatically takes a big hit. It is a psychological barrier in the marketplace.
Comments
What are the trouble areas? Is a 2007 S550 a better car than my brother-in-law's 2000 S430? I sure hope so!
I like cars as you like them - low miles and babied. My E55 was 4 years old and had 27K miles on it when I bought it. That's a nicer annual mileage.
Still, the S550 is a very grand-looking automobile and probably infinitely more reliable with the V-8 than the S600 with the turbocharged V-12.
The W221 is proving to be pretty reliable and solid - the biggest complaints I see are from the complexity of the controls. That's a non issue for me. In another 18 months or so you'll be able to get those cars for closer to 30-35K no doubt. If you can score a low mileage high optioned model then for that, it would be a better deal.
Both my E55 and my C43 were built under that rule...one of the first things I did when I bought the C43 was to have the transmission serviced. I took it to the stealership, and they gave me the story about it being a lifetime service interval. I replied with something to the effect that if that was the case, would they then replace it for free when it failed? I didn't get an answer...it had around 50K on it then. My E55 is going to roll over 40K this year, and I plan to have the transmission serviced in it by the end of the year.
I agree 3 years isn't enough to judge the W221...but it has to be better than the W220...by the time that one had been out 3 years, the bugs were well known.
I've seen more than one 05 C55 for 25K or so...if an 08 C63 is similar money in 2012, I will be sorely tempted. I'll take one loaded to the hilt...I need something unusual.
Local Porsche dealer had an 06 Quattroporte for 48K, that must have been around 125K or so when new I guess (?). I think it sold fast though, they only had it listed for about a week. That dealer group is also notorious for inflating an asking price and then bargaining, so I wonder what it went for. A friend of mine saw it and was salivating over it.
I chose the photo because it shows off the grey, as many people think the car is black :confuse:
It's trying to become a project car now. In the past 24 hours, I have noticed a creak in low speed sharp turns - must be a worn suspension component. When I was filling up yesterday, right when the auto shut of/top off point was reached, the tank "burped" and got gas all over my hands and the side of the car (which means I had to wax the rear quarter panel), and the best part is now the AC is acting up like it did 2 years ago - air barely cooler than ambient air, and a weird metallic sounding hiss. It did this before and the problem was simple valve that of course cost just more than the warranty deductible.
So, if you buy a used high end car, have a warranty!
"...air barely cooler than ambient air..."
Hmm, maybe they used British air conditioners in that model? :P
Actually it worked well once I got it fixed the first time, and last summer. But now we are in our first "warm" spell of the year (70F) and yesterday it was pretty useless.
The car has been relatively problem free since I have owned it, the warranty coming in handy for its early problems. I guess I shouldn't complain. It hasn't needed more than regular servicing and a side marker bulb since May 2007.
I still have my '96 Volvo 850. Just 86k miles and it's in mint condition. I'm taking it out this weekend, for the first time in 8 months.
Your Volvo accumulates mileage about as fast as my E55...but it gets driven at least every other day usually. I'll probably have it for a while...they have really taken a beating, and I couldn't get anything nearly as nice for what it is worth now.
I also suspect now that my warranty payout equals what I paid, they will do anything possible to reject a claim.
I think it makes sense to buy luxury cars used, since the enhancements of the past several years - mainly electronic safety and convenience features - add little or nothing to one's driving pleasure. Further, in my opinion there have been few significant styling advances. What I mean by that is that, to me, an well preserved '86 E-Class looks just as good as an '09. Reasonable people can nit pick on model year comparisons, but the point I'm trying to make is that, unlike the '50s and '60s, say, when new models seemed to almost always look better than the ones they replaced (at least it certainly seemed to back then), that's not so true today.
That's a long winded way of saying that you're doing about as well as one can with your E55, especially since you seem to really enjoy this car.
I bought the car when it was 4 years old for ca. 35% of original MSRP, when it had 27K miles on it. I spent another $2500 or so on a 4 year warranty. When I bought it the instrument cluster had a few dead pixels - $1000 warranty job. At the same time the rear sunshade died - $1300 warranty job. Combine that with the $300 AC repair it had 2 years ago, and I've broken even, and still have the warranty through next year. Those are the only issues the car has had. It'll need a few small things soon - I like to do a transmission service early, and I suspect a suspension bushing or part is starting to wear. But otherwise, it's been very solid. I like it because it sounds good, it looks pretty decent, it drives nicely, it's powerful and comfortable, and it's not even that bad on gas, all things considered. It's also very unusual, which I admit it a significant attraction for me.
All high end cars are depreciating like mad right now. A genuinely nice W210 E55 can be had for 15K now, and even a better than average one like mine won't go much past 17-18K or so. It's a lot of bang for the buck.
Funny thing, when picking up my car I was talking to the mechanic, and he mentioned the W124 as one was parked there. He believes they are the best modern car MB has built, a "tank" in his words. Clean timeless styling and usually very good mechanicals. A 500E would be very cool to have.
Another point I wanted to make- I don't see mid-90s Benz diesels on the road that much, I don't know why. I see a lot of ratty, tired W123s and some W126 300SDs putting around. Maybe Benz didn't produce a lot of diesels in the 90s? Just my $.02 worth, although I did see a W140 350SD a few weeks ago parked on a street in DC. It was in amazing, immaculate condition, unlike a lot of 140s I usually see.
Even during the Golden Age of Diesels in America, the diesel car market never exceeded something like 6%. Would you invest hundreds of millions of dollars to share a 6% market with other competitors? I'm not so sure I would.
I think the future of diesels in America is in entry-level, turbo diesel subcompacts and of course in dual wheel Pickups.
Around here, the trend is to install stacks on your diesel pickup (I'm guessing with no muffler). I can only assume that the tall, straight pipes mean that the driver's family tree doesn't fork.
A low mileage one might be hard to find though...MB diesels attract people who like to drive them. That's why a lot of the older cars are looking worn, too...they are all likely well over a quarter million miles.
I think the late W124 diesel is a relatively rare car, I am sure on a year per year basis more were sold of the 1987 only (I think) 300D. The diesel fad was long gone by the late 80s.
A W140 diesel is very rare...I think that's the engine (350SD) that had a lot of problems, too, it was either that or the late 300.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-E-class-1996-Mercedes-Benz-- E300-DIESEL-NO-RESERVE-AUCTION_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c- 65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0- Q2em14QQhashZitem260392756155QQitemZ260392756155QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
I know the early W210s had some teething issues but I'm sure this particular example has had all the bugs worked out. And I'm also sure that at a mere 131k miles it's not done yet.
Another odd thing to mention, the early W210s fared worse in crash tests than later cars.
Does that car have real leather, or is that the MBTex stuff? In some pics, it looks more like heavy duty vinyl Just something about the way it's shiny, and the texture, doesn't quite seem leathery to me.
But then I could be wrong. I've seen some pretty convincing vinyls in my time, but then I've seen some leathers that are cheap looking enough they might as well be vinyl!
I have seen many a MB seller claim their Tex is leather, even in the woven/grain style old Tex before it became kind of a leatherette.
It's extremely durable stuff.
Americans tend not to take care of the leather in their cars--they don't "feed" it because they don't realize that it used to belong to a cow!
I give my leather a conditioning every 3-4 months or so.
Buying an old Luxury car with bad leather is a bad buy, because replacement costs are staggering, and even though outsiders can't see in, you feel like you're driving a junk heap.
That's a huge influence in what attracted me to my W126 too - the original owner had kept the interior spotless.
Stupid cows! I could do that all by myself! :P
How many Rrrrrich Corrrinthians does it take?
"Dee Chrysler is [non-permissible content removed] good a car [non-permissible content removed] I yam an act-tor"
LOL!
It looks like a nice car, but this is NOT a Designo car - the weirdo two tone leather was a no cost option and was never available as a W210 Designo package. No massage seats on the W210 IIRC either.
A local dealer does have a rare Designo W211 E55, 2004, in "graphite", ca. 30K miles, well optioned but overpriced at 37K. I like the color a lot.
IMO the "deadly" mileage for a used luxury car with high maintenance costs is around 80K. At this mileage the car is still relatively new, and probably still looks very good, but could in fact have thousands of $$$ in either deferred or needed maintenance coming right up on you.
And once the clock turns 100K on a used luxury car, the value automatically takes a big hit. It is a psychological barrier in the marketplace.