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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I liked was the Solstice. Do keep it as a Chevy, GM! The Solstice wouldn't work as a Buick. But I could see it as a Chevy Solstice though. Gotta keep the working man's roadsters available for the masses to make those midlife crisis purchases. :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They are dumping a beauty like this G8 PU Truck.

    image

    And offering a Buick that makes the Aztek look like a goddess.

    image

    That may be the UGLIEST vehicle ever conceived of. Where does GM get their engineers? They have to be just dragging the bars and giving any engineer willing to work for jelly donuts a job. Had to be Wagoner signing off on that one.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am trying to decide which end is the worst looking. I think the front view. Park that in your driveway and all the neighbors will put their homes up for sale. Lemko, if you like that Buick you are one sick puppy.

    image
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    that tops the Aztek for ugliness, and that is saying something! :sick:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    ....is anybody suggesting that the Buick in the above pictures is slated to come to the US?

    My understanding is that this is a concept car shown at the Shanghai Auto Show .. in China, status means you are driven to work, not drive yourself. This Buick is meant to be bought by those who would ride in the back.

    However, I would still agree that this is one fugly vehicle

    I, too, would like to see the G8 rebadged as a Chevrolet, but that all depends on whether they keep the Holden brand alive Down Under, since that's where the G8 is manufactured. Could they modify the Camaro plant to build a 4 door?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yet another reason why opening China was a mistake :sick:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Lemko, if you like that Buick you are one sick puppy.

    That would be taking love of a brand a bit too far!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yuck!!!!! :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Good post. Many factors in GM decision. Besides profitabillity of Buick over Pontiac add in Chinese factor. Buick is most important brand to GM in a growing China. Could GM have killed off Buick in US market and still have kept it in China?

    Downside of keeping Buick in US is that GM ceded the "Excitement" factor of Pontiac via cars such as G8 and Solstice to a dowdy, senior citizen image of Buick. GM must be guessing that the aging baby boomers will be served well by the Buick brand.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The problem is that Pontiac wasn't exciting enough and Chevrolet makes SS versions on the majority of their makes and models thus leaving Pontiac sort of in the dust. I am sad that I will never see a remake of the Pontiac Trans-Am :cry:

    -Rocky
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Caamaro SS is the consolation prize...I can live with that. I need to test drive it since it is one of the bright spots in the GM saga.

    Regards,
    OW
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Member Posts: 1,724
    Other than the new malibu, no chevy to me has been really all that attractive. If they were attractive, well, they came up short still when being compared. Some designs I wonder how it even got past the design stages. I would assume they would get opinions first before moving forward.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yuck! A Buick Vibe? That's as palatable as that nasty Skyhawk they had some year's back.

    As for the HHR, I see a lot of the panel truck versions used by businesses these days. They make really nice light-duty delivery vehicles.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I like that idea. The Impala and the Malibu are too close in concept and the smaller Malibu is actually a nicer car. The current Impala looks too much like an Accord on steroids or the second coming of the Lumina. The current G8/Holden Commodore would make an excellent Impala.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    No. I don't like that one and I don't like cross-overs, SUVs, and minivans regardless of whose name is on them. For that design to work, the wheels must be much larger for one. I imagine this is a Chinese market vehicle?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I was at the Carlisle GM Show last summer and one display was where this kid came up with a very nice Trans Am version of the Camaro. I would've liked to have seen it produced!
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Ford and GM wanted in on the minivan $$ and made the Aerostar and Astro. Cargo vans were an option, but these were made to get people to look at thier minivans.

    It was later on that they went to front wheel drive minivans, like Chryslers.

    GM took the S-10 frame, modified it, used alot of the same parts......Astro.

    I seen "El Camino" concepts.....cant believe nobody makes one.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    My best friend Beth is a picky women and she said it was one cool car and said she has had a lot of inquires from customers for them. It will be a huge hit for GM, even in this tough economy. :shades:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    My mom almost purchased a lightly used 2003 Trans-Am WS-6 pre-owned one over her 08' Saturn Sky Redline.

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2009/04/should-the-g8-become-the-chevy-cam- aro-ss-sedan-.html?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..3.*

    :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • cbrowdercbrowder Member Posts: 9
    LOL. You did not mention the Skyhawk LOL. I remember those cars. Hey! Remember the "sporty" T-type Skyhawk with the turbo? LOL! You really drummed up some memories for me!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'm trying to forget!!! :sick:

    image
  • cbrowdercbrowder Member Posts: 9
    I agree. I'm shocked with the killing off of Pontiac as I saw some recent efforts in reviving the brand with the Soltice, GTO (although not well received), and the G8. I don't understand why GMC has survived as a core brand. Buick? Really? I sometimes forget Buick exists. Who's falling over themselves to buy a LaCrosse, Lucerne, or Enclave? But I think someone else mentioned it here a) Buicks still appeal and sell to older individuals (the same reason Ford wont stop making those damn town cars, Crown Vics, and Grand Marq's) and b) apparently Buicks are considered a big deal in an emerging Chinese market. (I've seen and read about the Buicks they sell in China, no wonder they are doing well there...they seem nicer...try and sell them one of the billion Beige LaCrosse's I see everyday here and they might just invade us to make us stop sending them over)
  • cbrowdercbrowder Member Posts: 9
    I am putting this up as desktop wallpaper on my computer LOL.!
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Wow. A Camaro sedan. So folks really don't have any idea. Next you'll be telling me Porsche would make a sedan.... :blush:

    I like the idea of moving the G8 over to Buick as a Wildcat. Talk about something that would revive the old idea as performance Buicks! And most of the dealers who lost their Pontiac franchises could still sell them!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Next you'll be telling me Porsche would make a sedan

    Porsche already made an SUV and Mercedes made what appears to be a minivan in the R-Class, so anything's possible! :confuse:
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I like the idea of moving the G8 over to Buick as a Wildcat.

    So do I - but you know the clowns would re-name it the Leningrad or the Jai Alai or some assinine name with a more "modern" sound.......
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    They've actually got a Porsche sedan ready to roll in Europe....

    I suppose I should look at this as whatever they need to do to make real Porsches...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I forgot that they had moved to hidden headlights on the Skyhawk in later years. I wonder if they were influenced by the Honda Prelude?

    I think it's rather attractive with the hidden headlights. Well, for what it is...a tarted up Cavalier. It's still not worthy of the Buick name IMO.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Does Buick need a RWD, 350+ HP sedan with a sports suspension in its lineup? Isn't this the kind of thinking that got GM into trouble in the first place?

    Does GM even need to cater to the sports car / sporty car demographic? Toyota doesn't (other than the IS-F from Lexus).

    The real question here is: what should each remaining brand from GM represent?

    Chevrolet - entry level & mainstream (Toyota, Ford)
    Cadillac - ultra luxury, maybe some sporty pretensions (MB, BMW)
    GMC - trucks & SUVs
    Buick - entry level luxury (Audi, Lexus)

    I could possibly see some sporty models under the Chevrolet banner - Corvette, a rebadged G8 and perhaps an SS Cruze / Malibu.

    I don't think GM should be in the niche market - at any price point - think HHR, Sky/Solstice, XLR. Once the dust has settled, they should focus on high volume, high quality offerings.

    Back at'cha, Toyota!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Does Buick need a RWD, 350+ HP sedan with a sports suspension in its lineup?

    No, but I'd immensely want a RWD 350+ HP Buick sedan with a sports suspension! I'd be trading my Cadillac DTS for one right now!!!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Heck, putting the G8 in Buick's lineup might do some good at breathing some new life into the brand. If Buick wants to stay around, they need to keep coming up with new products that get in younger buyers.

    Even though they still get their chops busted for it, Buick has made some progress. The LaCrosse and Lucerne have helped lower the average Buick buyer age a bit. I'm not sure what their averages are, but a few years back, the Regal was one of the most "youthful" Buicks, with an average buyer age of 57. Coincidentally, my Dad was 57 when he bought his used '03 Regal. I think the average LeSabre buyer age was 67, while for the Park Ave and Century, it was 70! The Rendezvous actually managed a buyer age somewhere in the 40's I think.

    Buick needs to keep working on that progress, though, and not go stale. Hopefully the new LaCrosse will help.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Buick's age should be lower. I've noticed all the much older people have Accords and Camrys and Corollas. They're usually in front of me waiting to turn on the interstate ramp.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Buick's age should be lower. I've noticed all the much older people have Accords and Camrys and Corollas. They're usually in front of me waiting to turn on the interstate ramp.

    That may be true, but Buick still has that perception. For instance, this past Saturday, I saw Vicki Lawrence live...
    image

    Dressed up as Mama, she said that there was a senior citizens' version of "Pimp My Ride" coming out called "[non-permissible content removed] My Buick!" :P

    Guess she could've said "Trick My Toyota" or "Hop up My Honda", but she didn't.

    Actually, I've been a bit disappointed with the Buick Lucerne of late. I liked it when it first came out, and for 2009, they replaced the 3.8 with the 3.9 which has a bit more power and economy. But they facelifted the V-8 models, making the grille a bit too garish and chromey. Made it look a bit old fogey to me, where at least the original style just seemed clean and smooth.
  • shoulderboardsshoulderboards Member Posts: 6
    GM allowed both the Pontiac and Buick brands to languish without the $$ and advertising support lavished upon Chevrolet and Cadillac. I believe this ultimately led to the downfall of Pontiac and probably Buick as well in the not too distant future. When Buick came out with the Lucerne a few years ago they proclaimed it to be the replacement for both the mainstream LeSabre and more upscale Park Avenue. According to a friend who sells both Pontiac and Buicks, the LeSabre owners happily accepted the Lucerne, but the typical Park Avenue owner did not consider it to be of the level of their vehicles and turned to competitors such as the Chrysler 300 and Acura RL. I believe GM made a crucial error in killing the Zeta-based RWD Park Avenue replacement a while back. This might have been a great domestic alternative to the Acura-Lexus-Infiniti models and would have done wonders to re-energize the tired Buick nameplate and lower the age of their buyers.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    From your description and info, all she needs do is get the Sales Manager to let her use a demo Red SS and the dealer will not be able to keep them on the lot for long! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Does Buick need a RWD, 350+ HP sedan with a sports suspension in its lineup?

    No, but I'd immensely want a RWD 350+ HP Buick sedan with a sports suspension! I'd be trading my Cadillac DTS for one right now!!!

    Lemko, as much as I respect your position, I gotta believe you'd be in the minority on this one.

    Now, if you were to soften the suspension up a bit - not pillowy soft, just not "sport" tuned, you might be able to capture the same demographic that are snapping up LS460's and M35/M45's.

    Let Cadillac compete with BMW.

    Each GM brand will need a unique identity.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Nope....make the G8 an Impala and the GXP an Impala SS. :D

    The interior is perfect for a family car with EXCITEMENT! I hope GM doesn't BLOW IT!

    Camaro = sports coupe.

    Regards,
    Wayne
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Don't be too sure Buick lasts as a separate Division. G8 should be about achieving a fast "heartbeat" not added to a Division that is all about "Slow Rides"! :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agreed. Adding excitement of the G8 and ALL trucks will further promote Chevy as the GM global brand that yells value and excitement since it already has the 'vette and now the new Camaro. This will be America's division again.

    GMC and Buick needs to go away to eliminate dilution of the bst divisions which should be GM's new focus. Four divisions just does not make sense anymore.

    Cadillac should eat the useful Buicks and concentrate on technologically advanced premium nameplates once again...not Cimmaron-like half-bakes.

    No one makes military equipment better than the USA...the cars should be the same. Period.

    This is the real hard decision GM needs to decide if it is to make a lasting comeback. Caddy and Chevy stand alone.

    Regards,
    OW
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    GMC and Buick needs to go away to eliminate dilution of the bst divisions which should be GM's new focus. Four divisions just does not make sense anymore.

    I agree, with the exception that GMC could remain as a heavy truck maker. As far as passenger cars go though, 2 divisions should be all that remains. Maybe then, they would stand a chance of getting it right.
  • shoulderboardsshoulderboards Member Posts: 6
    I believe every heavy duty truck made by GM is marketed as either Chevrolet or GMC, so killing off GMC would not hurt the overall GM heavy truck business.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Lemko, if you would trade your DTS for a G8 with sport suspension in a heartbeat, I think you have prioritized brand name much too highly, and bought the wrong car for you as a result.

    And for DTS money, there are SO MANY great RWD sport sedans in the market, it's no surprise at all that G8 has been a sales flop. But it certainly didn't help that it was a Pontiac.

    I could see three GM brands where GMCs are co-located with Chevy and only sell 2500 and up heavy duty trucks.

    But this idea to keep GMC and Buick is just more of postponing the inevitable. Now if the government goes for it then GM may have the room to postpone it for now if they wish. But look ahead to 2020 and there's just no way there's still a Buick brand in the U.S. unless it is selling Chinese-designed and -built cars. And I will be VERY interested to see what sets this new Terrain apart from the Equinox, because if they continue the rebadging just to give GMC dealers a midsize crossover, I will know that it's business as usual at the General. And if it is, there will certainly be further failures in their future.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Your points are right on the money. Buick and GMC will go away one way or another...too bad someone can not make the hard decisions now.

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The real question here is: what should each remaining brand from GM represent?

    Chevrolet - entry level & mainstream (Toyota, Ford)
    Cadillac - ultra luxury, maybe some sporty pretensions (MB, BMW)
    GMC - trucks & SUVs
    Buick - entry level luxury (Audi, Lexus)

    Here we go again. Which is why I still think GM could live with Chevy and Caddy only. What difference does the brand make? - they are still GM cars. Especially when so many of them are rebadges. Toyota and Honda manage with two brands.

    And I disagree about Lexus and Audi being entry level luxury. IMHO even Cadillac is not at the levels of Lexus and Audi. It is laughable to think of Buick as being comparable to those two makes. Perhaps someday.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I heard on the radio this morning that the Pontiac sales in Los Angeles County during those two months were 73!

    That's amazingly bad. No wonder those poor dealers are folding.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOL....She is good at selling cars. I am hooking her up with a Silvy sale from my uncle. Regarding your idea of a Impala out of the G8. Sounds like a good idea to me. :shades:

    -Rocky
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    No reason to get rid of GMC. Save what? badge, front grille, and headlight lens?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The real question here is: what should each remaining brand from GM represent?

    Chevrolet - entry level & mainstream (Toyota, Ford)
    Cadillac - ultra luxury, maybe some sporty pretensions (MB, BMW)
    GMC - trucks & SUVs
    Buick - entry level luxury (Audi, Lexus)

    I could possibly see some sporty models under the Chevrolet banner - Corvette, a rebadged G8 and perhaps an SS Cruze / Malibu.

    I don't think GM should be in the niche market - at any price point - think HHR, Sky/Solstice, XLR. Once the dust has settled, they should focus on high volume, high quality offerings.

    Right, and the niche market can be served by Subaru and VW in North America, with fuel efficient, high performance fun to drive cars. If you compete on bland (think Lincoln MKS vs Lexus ES350) everyone loses.

    Back at'cha, Toyota!

    Yup, Americans can design and make cars duller than yours! We just have to try harder.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    What difference does the brand make? - they are still GM cars. Especially when so many of them are rebadges. Toyota and Honda manage with two brands.
    Toyota has 3 brands. They have gone from 1 to 2 and now to 3 (Scion). And they still don't offer anything that would interest me. The combining stuff doesn't matter. It's about profit. Pontiac is cut because of 3rd best GM sales but still no profits. Pontiac sold 267,000 cars last year and money was taped inside each one. The G line will be rebranded. The G3 and G5 were already about to be replaced, and the G6 which outsells the Accord in my area, was probably within a year or two of a major makeover. Does what's coming have suppliers making unusual adjustments?

    OW sees JD Powers as laughable. They are the ones who have Buick topping Lexus.
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