GM News, New Models and Market Share

PMO

Not !the past is like an old marriage,you pay the price and move on .Thinking the old life ,shed the old life old cloths get leaner and remember your mistakes made in the first marriage. Then look at the Japanese couple how did their marriage work? well first got Shelby to build them a home allow for less labor cost and what a deal. This formula worked for them . GM has found the past giving and not getting worked for them it will use the same marriage councilor.

cooterbfd

Well, dogs in the sense that they are old technology compared to newer models. remember, they sit on a 15 year old platform.

cooterbfd

".....GM sold 2 million cars in China last year. It builds a lot of its cars in Mexico... How is it an American company?? "

GM builds very few vehicles in Mexico. Just the HHR, Avalanche, and some 1/2 ton trucks. It is an American company because it is BASED here. Remember, Mr Toyoda wasn't going to speak to Congress. It took a personal invitation by one of the Congressmen to get him here. If he didn't want to show, he didn't HAVE to. Mr Whitacre or Mullaly would have 2 choices: Show up, or JAIL!!!

dieselone

GM builds very few vehicles in Mexico. Just the HHR, Avalanche, and some 1/2 ton trucks.

I have now idea what percentage of 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's come out of GMs Mexico plant, but I know the Suburban I owned and every Suburban and Denali I looked at were built in Mexico.

PMO

Update to my last blur Argentina GM,Brazil GM Colombia GM Ecuador GM Venezuela GM Uruguay GM South Africa GM and Egypt GM , Canada GM Germany GM China GM and England GM ,you might find that GM USA was in fact carried by the rest of the world through it's bankruptcy 60 billion would have only carried payroll for the USA retirees All Divisions Thank you for helping out your fellow Americans .Australia Holden GM thanks you too.

deltheking

So what about the profits got from gm cars in China? GM is BASED here and so it is getting the profits from China? China is not objecting to GM cars or that they are losing jobs there..Buick Lacrosse interior was designed in China.. So the profits in china are coming to GM in US?? Same thing in India..Chevy sells Cruze and Spark sedans there and the profits come here.So what`s the point?? Its a global economy buddy.
And the best car wins!! :P As simple as that!! All this pseudo American car talk is just that-- cheap talk!!

PMO

It is paying the bills in the USA to become free of its Government debt.This will not mean Jobs in the USA because who would buy them,it has become obvious people are happier without GM and it's work force. GM however will do as its counter parts have done ,Build us a plant give us a workforce without a union and we will come. Worked for them other plants ask Shelby.

andres3

So your saying GM robbed Peter to pay Paul?

Last I heard is many of GM's divisions were looking for bailouts from many goverments including Germany, and many others outside the US. They can't exist profitably without gov't support.

dieselone

I don't think GM would bring profits from China into the US operations. Doing so has major tax consequences such as those profits being taxed in China and again when those earnings are brought to the US. Plus, I'd think the profits in China would be used to further expand in that market.

The tax code is over 60k pages, corporate taxes are extremely complicated, particularly for multinational corporations.

PMO

Yesterdays news South Africa has 12% of its market ,SAAB sold China selling more cars than GM in the USA. Canada shipping CAMARO to Japan so the USA market is in rough shape but not GM

dieselone

GM profits in China were reported as $429 million or the 3rd qtr last year. Using that as a basis, $1.5 to 2 Billion in profits will take a long time to bail out US operations particularly since in that same qtr GM N/A lost over $650 million.

cooterbfd

"......So what about the profits got from gm cars in China? GM is BASED here and so it is getting the profits from China? China is not objecting to GM cars or that they are losing jobs there..Buick Lacrosse interior was designed in China.. So the profits in china are coming to GM in US??"

And it's about goddamned time someone HERE started profiting from what is sold elsewhere, istead of the other way around.

dieselone

And it's about goddamned time someone HERE started profiting from what is sold elsewhere, istead of the other way around.

That's nothing new, US companies have been exporting to the rest of the world for hundreds of years. Most people probably don't realize it, but as a percentage of GDP, US exports are double now than what they were in the late 60's.

deltheking

So why bash toyota/Honda for making profits ?? Double standards!! Hypocrisy!! And yes--may the best car and the carmaker win!! :shades:

dieselone

So why bash toyota/Honda for making profits ?? Double standards!! Hypocrisy!! And yes--may the best car and the carmaker win!! :shades:

The beauty of it is more than one can win. I have no problem with foreign makes being here. Competition breeds better product. We all win.

Just look at the Mustang for ex. When GM dropped the Camaro, Ford didn't have to go all out. They kept the 4.6 v8, and the truck based 4.0 v6 for powertrains. They didn't have to spend the money in the powertrain department to improve things. It sold anyway. Once Ford found out GM was coming back, what did Ford do? They immediately started developing a new v8 and upgraded the base v6 to match the competition. I may not want a Camaro, but every Mustang fan should be thankful GM brought it back. It means the 2011 Mustang will be the most capable ever. Thank you GM.

Seeing how well GM is doing in China, I think GM should outsource it's North American management team. Maybe the guys running the Asian unit can get things going here;)

cooterbfd

No, nobody bashes them for making money.

circlew

Problem is, no one here is profiting...the taxpayers are loosers.

Give me a break! :mad:

Regards,
OW

tlong

Dieselone!!! This is brilliant!:

Seeing how well GM is doing in China, I think GM should outsource it's North American management team. Maybe the guys running the Asian unit can get things going here;)

circlew

That's why GM will be China-Owned in a few short years, afaic. The designs are no longer U.S.A.-derived because the N.A. business is a failure...why would Cadillac distance itself from GM??

Because it's a dead brand.

Regards,
OW

2012aveo

It seems GM is putting as much effort and product in the Buick brand as the Cadillac brand these days. In addition most of Buick's new cars like the LaCrosse and Regal are designed around the China market. I think in the next decade GM will focus as much attention to the China market as the North American market.

dieselone

I think in the next decade GM will focus as much attention to the China market as the North American market.

It makes sense to do so. The Chinese market is bigger and probably get much bigger than the US market. They can reduce development costs across the board if they can pull off sharing platforms designed for the China market. The platforms need to be able to sell here to though.

lemko

Well, nowhere near as old as the technology in my 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I guess I have a thing for old school cars. Just because it's old doesn't mean its bad.

dieselone

Well, nowhere near as old as the technology in my 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I guess I have a thing for old school cars. Just because it's old doesn't mean its bad.

True, but even though the Grand Marquis is based off a 20+ year platform, the 4.6 v8 is still a newer engine than the 3800 in you wife's 05 LaCrosse as the 4.6 was introduced in '90 or so;)

Those Crown Vics/Grand Marquis are tough cars though. my dad had a '92 Crown Vic that ordered as soon as the new redesigned model was available in '91. It was a tough car.. I remember in '98 we had a horrible blizzard. He slid off the road and the car was left in a snow bank for 4 days until the tow trucks could get to it. I took him to pick it up and when he tried to start it the battery was dead. So we popped the hood only to find the entire engine bay encased in snow ice. We had to chisel to get find and get access to the battery post.

I told dad, that it's never going to start until we get a good thaw, plus is had 150k miles on it at the time. Well, we hooked it up to a battery booster and damn if it didn't fire right up. The belts and fan caused ice and snow to fly everywhere, and it missed a bit for a while, but I'm not kidding, the entire engine bay was completely packed with snow. I wish I would have taken a picture of it. We let it run idle for about 15 minutes, then off to work he went. He ended up keeping it until '00 and it had over 220k on it.

andre1969

True, but even though the Grand Marquis is based off a 20+ year platform, the 4.6 v8 is still a newer engine than the 3800 in you wife's 05 LaCrosse as that engine was introduced in '90 or so;)

Actually, I think the Grand Marquis/Crown Vic is an excellent example of how an old platform can be improved over the years. It actually came out way back in 1979, in automotive terms, that's like what? Three days older than God? :surprise:

The body itself only got one really major update, when it went aero for 1992, although it's been tweaked here and there. However, the engines migrated from the old 302 (351W was available briefly in 1979-80 and then in police cars after that) to the much more modern 4.6 in 1992. The transmission, while still just a 4-speed, has been improved I'm sure. In 1998 it got an improved rear-end...Watts-linkage or something like that? New hydroformed frame for 2004 I think, and I believe that year it went to rack-and-pinion steering.

I think the biggest problem with the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis is that the style just looks so old/unchanged. That roofline dates back to the 1992 Grand Marquis, although the Crown Vic adopted it for 1998. And overall, the bodies haven't been tweaked all that much since 1992, and same for the interiors. I think they did get a new dash in 1995.

For what it is, I think the Ford Panther is still a pretty good car. If you want something sturdy and rugged, a good highway cruiser, that can still pull a trailer and full load of passengers and cargo, it's pretty much the only game in town anymore unless you go to a truck/SUV. If they gave it maybe 2 inches more wheelbase and threw all that into the back seat (basically what they did with the Lincoln Town Car), and updated the interior, I think the car would be almost the perfect full-sized car.

The only problem is, there just really isn't a big market for a car like that anymore. Most people don't need room for 5/6 passengers to spread out, a payload capacity close to many half-ton pickups, and the ability to pull a 5,000 lb trailer all rolled into one. And those that just want the added size/feel of an old-school full-sized car are just too far and few between, to make it a worthwhile market. And with CAFE breathing down their necks, it just makes it even harder for the automakers to build something like this, regardless of what the public would want.

tjc78

For what it is, I think the Ford Panther is still a pretty good car

Like you say, there really isn't too much of a market for a car like the GM/CV/TC however, I would love to see one more revision of the platform focusing on interior space and the new V6 they are putting into the Mustang. I'd certainly give it a look. Unfortunately, looks as if the Panther is going away. What are all the NY cabs going to do? Heck, here in NJ the majority of State Police cruisers are still CVs. IMO GM should be thinking of ways to pick up that business from Ford.

PMO

I understood GM in fact did not use the 60 billion but kept it mostly on hand for use if required. I can be corrected on this but GM has it as Backup to cover supplier costs.This is why it is paying in June most of the US debt and all it is owing in Canada. I too understand Fords 35 billion debt is on its mortgages taken out before the crunch. Correct me please if you find other wise.

PMO

If only it worked like that! GM Canada was at one time for many years the biggest profit making plant in the world. The plant in Oshawa contained Battery Plant ,Truck Plant, North Manufacturing Plant, South Stamping Plant And two car Plants . 18,000 hourly and 13,000 Salary building 58 cars per hour two shifts in each plant and 60 trucks per hour on two shifts and the third shift 350 allowing for repair down time. Radio department ,Wire and harness Department , Plastics Devision and Radiator plant. 4500 people work in this plant now and you think you are hurting?

PMO

Would you say imports are double? it looks like the ship has sailed from North America and everyone is standing and blowing kisses good bye. The jobs were going in the 90's Remember the loud sucking noise speech ,it fell on deaf ears. This is like praying for help and when it comes you look for something better,when it comes you turn it away again and keep on praying. GM Ford and Chrysler were good companies with work forces that were better than any country in the world. I have watched how the undoing of North America came about because of the reckless thinking and lack of appreciation for the workers in our own plants.

dieselone

he jobs were going in the 90's Remember the loud sucking noise speech ,it fell on deaf ears.

No, I voted for Perot. I guess it depends on your perspective. I grew up around the steel mills. Those jobs were all lost in the late 70's to early 80's.

Yeah, GM was ONCE a great company to work for. Now there are many other great companies to work for. Google, Apple, Microsoft, HP, IBM, Cisco, Intel, Proctor and Gamble, Genetech, etc. The list goes on and on.

Here is Money Magazine's list of top companies to work for in the US top 100

You won't find GM or Ford on there, but there are many great companies to work for.

tlong

GM Ford and Chrysler were good companies with work forces that were better than any country in the world. I have watched how the undoing of North America came about because of the reckless thinking and lack of appreciation for the workers in our own plants.

When other manufacturing companies (not just autos) in the world can continue to automate and gain efficiencies, there is NO WAY that the status quo is going to stay the same. Take Ford's most automated plant, the one in Brazil. Due to the Neanderthal attitudes of the UAW, it could not be built here.

There may be a lot of good jobs being lost, but time NEVER stands still. We can devote our energies to moaning about how it was in 1960, or we can use that same energy to realize that people all over the world are hungry for improvement and progress. And then we can rise to that occasion. There is no entitlement to the position of the US being on top of the world. It requires continuous work and change to maintain.

So let's get going, and COMPETE.

PMO

It was in the beginning like how easy to get a car from them and then came the flaws that were North American cars built on 60 year old presses. This now cut into Jobs in North America (but who cared?) the story goes dad gets a buy out to keep the younger guy working (lazy [non-permissible content removed] he did not need to retire) then it cut deeper 30 and out became the shout to get the older guys out to keep the younger working. This was doing good then Shelby thought giving Toyota and Honda plants in the USA would make jobs(it did great jobs) producing more cars giving GM Ford and Chrysler a bigger chance to rid themselves of more workers.Then the crash all those workers became slime for retiring when thy did This profit thing killed this industry.

PMO

Not that any of them Manufacture cars or have a great history in work force but I have no doubt someone working for them makes them great. Then ask those outside looking for work or retired, Money Mag is like the Car experts,read about a car makes them experts. Get a degree in car Shop makes them Experts. This an Expert will not make. The fact I worked in the industry 33 years ,Glass ,Bumpers,Draw Press operator (truck Wheelhouse,and oil pans etc) die setter,inspector in Radiator room,inspector radio Room .Then Wire and Harness inspector,Car line Seatbelt inspector, Battery inspector,in Battery Plant. Then became Reliability Body shop moved on to Plant Rep for Buick and Chev in Detroit for 8 years .This gives me incite on top of being Union Rep for 6 years. This will not make me an Expert (but dam close)

PMO

CV was a good Canadian built Ford .GM gave the market to Ford when it stopped the Chev Rear Wheel drive.

anythngbutgm

GMAC May Never Repay Part of Government Aid

PMO

I would like you to know GM Canada spent 3.4 Billion on presses from Japan in 1989 at that time GM was building Buick Regal two door ( just what the North American market wanted)not! Then as you say the US was never on top of the world.as I say the North American market was with GM mainly Made in Canada Trucks Chev and GMC in 1980 we built trucks with 100 different axles.The progression of the Car manufacturing is a constant change 1960 till now 50 years I have been in it and find a metric equivalent the USA is 1/64th 0.397MM Canada has used MM for 50 years and the USA refuses to go metric.

cooterbfd

OK, what say you about this:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/11/ratner-auto-bailout-saved-michigan-from-bankr- uptcy/

PMO

This is true it was saved by the fact it is not GM but a Banking/Loan Mortgage Company .This company gives loans for GM cars, Chrysler too.

cooterbfd

GMAC is NOT GM. GMAC is majority owned by Cerberus, former owner of Chrysler.

PMO

This is not News it is a statment of fact. This was a gift to America that by so many are in denial over. The money was not for GM Chrysler it was for the American Population. Look at the people it missed who suffer from Wall street and bad investments.

andres3

Spare me. The bailouts were not for the American Population, they were for the corporate executives and the workers of those specific companies.

GMAC is GM, they just have sold a good portion of it in recent years, but the bailouts of GMAC were in every way associated with helping GM just as the bailouts of AIG were in every way associated with helping banks that had insurance from them.

anythngbutgm

LOL, that's some funny B.S. right there...

"Gift to America" LOL!!!!!!!! Where is my roflmao emoticon?

dieselone

"Gift to America" LOL!!!!!!!! Where is my roflmao emoticon?

To bad it didn't come with a "gift receipt" so I could return it. It would make a good "elephant gift" to give away at my next family reunion. Oh, they've got it too.

Yuck, all those taxes I've paid over the years and I get is a theoretical share of a lousy car company.

dieselone

GMAC is NOT GM. GMAC is majority owned by Cerberus, former owner of Chrysler.

Yeah, GM sold off major stakes a few years ago. GMAC was the life boat that kept GM going for many years during the late 90's through early '00. They were making billions financing over priced real estate. The joke among many was that GM was a mortgage company that just happened to make cars.

If it wasn't for GMAC, GM may have gone belly up several years earlier. We'd probably be better off today if that would have happened. The financial markets back then could have provided the liquidity to fund a bankruptcy.

tlong

The progression of the Car manufacturing is a constant change 1960 till now 50 years I have been in it and find a metric equivalent the USA is 1/64th 0.397MM Canada has used MM for 50 years and the USA refuses to go metric.

USA was going to go metric in the Carter Admin, but Reagan killed the idea. Another stupid government decision. Not sure how that is relevant to GM.

tlong

If it wasn't for GMAC, GM may have gone belly up several years earlier. We'd probably be better off today if that would have happened. The financial markets back then could have provided the liquidity to fund a bankruptcy.

So what you are saying is that GM was making money on things other than its "core competency", making and selling vehicles!

cooterbfd

"GMAC is GM, "

GM sold 51% of GMAC to Cerberus in April of '06. One of the reasons GM sales slid in late '08 was Cerberus withholding financing from GM like this;

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/14/gmac-limits-loans-to-buyers-with-700-fico-rat- ing/

dieselone

So what you are saying is that GM was making money on things other than its "core competency", making and selling vehicles!

Well, it was until the housing crash, and GMAC was no longer making money. GM was probably smart to sell 51% of it.

PMO

All GM prints for building cars were and are in Metric but to understand how in the American plants converted the Metric to 64ths and we all know what happens when you can not convert correctly? This is just knowing what I ran into in Detroit. Things look good even if your wrong in the numbers?

PMO

My guess you live outside ,way outside any American owned Car building state that shut down ? The State and City too.

PMO

I would ask you to drive through Detroit and feel the pride of American Ghost town that was one of the greatest Industrial Centers on earth .The empty buildings and look in to the sunken eyes of the people who you laugh at not caring to know but one.