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But these guys that believe in the bailouts of GM & Chrysler as a good thing, also believe you owe it to your country to bailout the Tow Truck Companies and Auto Repair Shops by buying from the Big 3!!! Just the act of buying a Big 3 vehicle really does directly lead to spending $$$ on tow truck companies and auto repair shops. It's an indirect bailout of those industries. After all, they know how to spend YOUR money better than you do! :P
Isn't that funny though? I have had some try to say the same thing to me, such as "if you take care of your Amerian vehicle, it will last and work just as good as a Japanese one."
As if there is some magical potion in the air that made me take lesser care of my Big 3 car than my Japanese cars. Or maybe it was something in the water that tricked people into maintaining their Japanese cars better than they did their Big 3 cars. hahahaha !
I wish I kept all my repair receipts. I'd ask these forum posters to reimburse me for all of them and put there money where their mouth is. If I got reimbursed for all of the repairs, tow trucks, and such, I'd consider getting another Big 3 vehicle again; provided they agree to pay for out of warranty repairs up to 100,000 miles ahead of time.
I wish I kept all my repair receipts. I'd ask these forum posters to reimburse me for all of them and put there money where their mouth is. If I got reimbursed for all of the repairs, tow trucks, and such, I'd consider getting another Big 3 vehicle again; provided they agree to pay for out of warranty repairs up to 100,000 miles ahead of time.
its funny you should mention that because I kept all the repair bills, though I'd probably will get rid of them soon; I even wrote down in my gas mileage book at what mileage I had repair work done and what repair work it was! I was that meticulous!
yeah, the not taking care of your car excuse has gotten old; I've always taken meticulous almost obsessive care of my vehicles no matter what company the car is from; I'm a firm believer in that no matter what kind of car you have in your garage, whether it is American, Japanese, Korean, or German its the second largest purchase you are ever going to make in your life and is a statement of your personality and you should take care of it, just as if it was your house! I know a car can't talk but if it could I know it would thank you for keeping it well cleaned and maintained! :shades:
I just bought my first new vehicle since 2001 and I don't plan on needing to spend anything repairing it for 5 years. If it is anything like my last new GM it will either need tires in 60,000 miles or a new battery in 7 years as it's first invasion of my wallet.
One of my 6 vehicles is a '98 mustang. The only non-GM. I was looking at it today and saw rust around the rear quarter panel that just appeared this winter. My experience with Chevy is to first see rust at 17-19 years old, if not undercoated, in my rustbelt climate. This is the first disappointment from the Ford.
Fast forward to 2008, my sister bought a GMC Acadia. I love the styling and it drives well. However, 2 years and 40,000 miles later it's apparent GM's quality hasn't improved. She had a leak on the driver's door that resulted in the entire interior carpet being replaced. Then she had to have the audio system replaced as it was draining the battery, after 3 new batteries in one month GM finally replaced the audio system. Granted these were all under warranty and the dealer was very helpful, but as my sister noted, if you have to do all this under warranty what will happen in the next 40,000 miles when it comes out of her pocket. In spite of the recent negative publicity, my parents have a 2008 Camry with 65,000 miles on it and haven't had any issues with it.
Sorry to the few GM fans here who have impeccable cars and think the rest of us are brainwashed and un-American, but personal experience continues to show they still don't build a quality car. I'd like to give them a chance but GM continues to give me many reasons to stick with other brands.
Sorry to the few GM fans here who have impeccable cars and think the rest of us are brainwashed and un-American, but personal experience continues to show they still don't build a quality car. I'd like to give them a chance but GM continues to give me many reasons to stick with other brands
couldn't say it better myself; I had terrible electrical problems with my 1990 and 1992 Buick's and I was just reading that several people are having MAJOR electrical and mechanical troubles on their 2010 Lacrosse's; when I hear that kind of stuff, similar to what I went through 20 years ago, it scares the crap out of me and gives me no confidence to even consider GM in the near future when shopping! I hope it just needs more time!
Not ready to put the crappy quality to bed quite yet....miles to go before I sleep... :sick:
Regards,
OW
Well the first GM I remember as being junk was my uncle's Vega in the mid 70's, though I'm not really old enough to remember hit he still talks about how bad it was. The first GM car to leave me stranded was also at an early age (7 or 8), it was a '79 Caprice Classic wagon my dad had. I remember it pretty much being brand new and leaving us stranded multiple times with carb troubles. The dealer finally got it figured out and my dad kept it until '85.
Honestly, I've hadtrouble with a variety of vehicles, but the worst is by far my 2000 Suburban that was made in Mexico. Horrible fit and finish, squeaks and rattles by 40k miles. Intermediate steering shaft issues by 40k. Transmission rebuilt at 46k (also horrible rear differential whine that I just dealt with and never fixed), pitman arm at 50k or so, fuel pump at 60k, A/C compressor at 65k, numerous electrical gremlins (such as the rear washer pump turning on with fog lights, rear wiper moving when rear defrost was on, and the rear wiper would move from park position sometimes when put in reverse), HVAC damper door and some type of heat control actuator replaced at 80k (cold air would come in passenger compartment and heat would stick on).
My wife had an '01 Impala with the infamous engine cradle and ISS (intermediate steering shaft) under warranty under 36k miles, and it had an oil sending unit go bad around 40k, it was a company car and she only had it for about 45k miles. The engine cradle and particularly the ISS seemed to affect many GM vehicles back then.
My wife currently has an 07 Grand Prix for a company car. It has 62k miles on it. Other than leaking a bit of oil in our garage, it has been reliable. Though I will say, its a horrid car. I can't fathom anyone willing to spend their own money one. We can virtually drive it for very cheap and it sits on the weekends. It represented all that was wrong with GM. It's no longer around, so hopefully GM will move forward with viable product.
didn't notice any problems with GM until my 1979 Chevy Chevette! was the first real problem GM car I had and then they just continued from there!
so something began to change with GM between my 1968's and late 1970s/beginning of the 1980s!
GM has a long way to go to earn back my trust, and I doubt they'll be around long enough to earn it.
For those who think I'm un-American and biased, I'd strongly consider a Ford for my next purchase, in spite of the horrid experiences we had with them in the 1980's.
I test drove the Malibu V6 just for the heck of it to see if Chevy has made any progress since I stopped buying from them; they have in many regards, the material quality is much better then in my 01 and 04 Malibu's, and the car is a little bit more comfortable but many of the materials were still cheap and the ride was a little bit more unsettled and no as quiet with the larger wheels and the V6 as it was in the Fusion, Altima, and Fusion! Chevy though is heading in the right direction with the new Malibu though but they are going to have to do a lot more to not even compete with their competition but beat them; the refreshed Fusion is at least a few years a head of the Malibu and is at least able to compete with reliabilty, quality, etc etc with its Korean and Japanese competition!
160,000 miles and the new owner put on an additional 160,000 on it.
That's 320,000 miles with the original transmission (2 motors). My son
had a 2000 Cavalier that he spent $10,500 for brand new. His girlfriend
now commutes 30 miles each way to work with it. It now has 180,000
miles and still runs great. It did need some front end work (pothole)
and an alternator. The A/C doesn't work but no other major repair.
He now has a 2007 Cobalt with 50,000 miles and he loves it. I find
that car quiet, smooth riding and comfortable,. Much better than
the Cavalier which has a harsh ride.
Speaking of harsh rides, I drove in my cousin's 2008 Acura RDX
and I think my 2006 Silverado's ride is much smoother
and more comfortable. I also was quite underwhelmed by the
Interior. It looked very cheap for a $40,000 car. The 4 cylinder
engine was very buzzy also.
My wife drives a 2008 Saturn Aura. I think it is the smoothest
most refined car I have driven. (Yeah I don't drive alot of higher
end cars - although I do drive my brother-in-law's Acura TL,
which is smooth and refined but noisy with a busy ride).
I bought a 7 year/ 100,000 warranty with the Aura, so I
am not worried about any out of pocket repairs. I realize
that the resale of this car will probably not be as good as
some other cars, but I paid $6000 under sticker price
so it all comes out in the wash at the end. So until I have
a bad experience with GM I will continue to consider and
buy them on a cost/value basis.
By the way in light of the serious frame rust problem appearing
in late model Toyota Tacomas and Tundras, I am absolutely
ecstatic that I chose a Chevy Silverado which has been
absolutely bullet proof for 4 years and for which I paid less
money for than my 1994 Ford f-150 and has more features
than than that truck. (By the way that was a great reliable
truck too). I checked the underside of my truck recently
and absolutely no sign of rust on the frame.
Maybe that $560 car is one of the reasons you were able to save up for a $200K custom home. So don't be embarrassed, be proud!
As for inexpensive, I remember about 11 years ago, my grandmother's '85 LeSabre needed new upper ball joints to pass inspection, when she gave it to me. At least I think it was the upper...it was whichever is the easiest/cheapest of the two to get to. I went into the part store and the guy said it would be $52. Apiece, I asked him, and he said that no, that was for both of them! In contrast, I tihnk the last ball joint I bought was for my '68 Dart, And I forget how much the shop charged to put them on, but it wasn't a whole lot.
I don't think it was just GM...I think everybody started going downhill in that timeframe, maybe even earlier. I remember reading the 1965 auto issue of Consumer Reports, and they were griping about finding record numbers of defects in their test cars. 1965 was also a milestone year though, with record sales and a lot of all-new products, so with so many new designs being rushed out the door, there was more opportunity for error.
Chrysler products started going downhill in the late 1960's. The new '67 Dart/Valiant wasn't as well-built as the 63-66. The '68-70 midsized cars weren't built as well as the '67. And the '69 full-sized cars went downhill compared to '68. I think the '69 full-size Fords went downhill from '68 as well. GM held on a little while longer, probably only because they didn't redesign their full-sized cars until 1971.
Then, in the 1970's, we had emissions controls, fuel economy standards, and all sorts of other hurdles that the auto makers could not get past without sacrificing reliability, simplicity, durability, or something else.
No doubt. If it was only GM going down hill, they would have gone bankrupt by 1980. Ford's were horrible in the '70's, I'd say they were much worse than GM overall. I remember my dad having a '73 Grand Torino that was completely rusted out and needed a valve job by '79 and it had well under 50k on it. IIRC, the engine had major issues by 25k miles.
I don't know much about chrysler as I've never really known to many people to have them. My FIL was able to get some serious miles out his late '70's through mid 80's Ram Vans. Though the paint would flake and/or fade early and they would rust too, but with the 318 they ran a long time.
I imagine the same could be said about AIG and Goldman Sachs, too.
SEVERAL????? There were 3. One with the engine problem, one with the tranny, and one with the computer (this out of the 20 or so THOUSAND on the road).
There have been a couple with dead batteries, but that was due to a programming issue where if you lock the doors, the car continued to "search" for the key fob (you needed the keyless start), thereby killing the battery. Just a reprogram-NOTHING major. No USB??? Again, a programming thing.
I don't care whether your GM, Toyota, Ford, Hyundai, etc - when people are having major mechanical, electrical, programming, etc problems on their vehicles, you better damn well find out and know what is causing the problem instead of fixing something you don't know why it broke in the first place and then sending people on their merry way for it all to happen again and possibly risk their safety! you better either refund their money or give them a brand new car so that you can safely study the damaged one in order to get to the bottom of what is going on! the problem is, the car companies don't want to do it - they want to play the dumb dumb game and send you on your merry way
that is the way GM always treated me for over 25 years and now Toyota owners are finding out that Toyota is no better then GM was :sick:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Obama administration's pay czar is reducing 2010 compensation for top executives at GMAC Inc. because the auto finance giant continues to lose money and has no strategy for repaying its $16.3 billion taxpayer bailout, according to people familiar with the negotiations.
The people say only one of the 25 highest earners at GMAC will earn more than $500,000 in cash, and CEO Michael Carpenter will receive only stock compensation.
They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the talks.
Executive compensation at GMAC is subject to oversight by Treasury special master Kenneth Feinberg. He must approve pay packages or policies for the top 100 earners at companies that rely on "extraordinary assistance" from the government.
Regards,
OW
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_1005_best_selling_midsize_family_- sedan_comparison/index.html
I was shocked to see that my favorite dog in that fight, the Nissan Altima, came in last! In all fairness though, it looks like all those cars in the comparison did pretty well, so it's not that the lowest-ranked cars were horrible cars, necessarily, but just that the others were better.
I think it's interesting that they said the Altima felt the most cramped inside. The Altima is actually one of the few cars where I don't have to put the seat all the way back to be comfortable! The only other cars I can think of in recent memory capable of that are my '76 LeMans and my grandmother's 85 LeSabre, both of which have power seats that can get into some extremely contorted positions, to the point I can barely reach the pedals.
And somehow, even with that front seat all the way back, I could still fit in the back seat of the Altima.
Note to Whitacre: Borrow a page from Ford! Let the next generation takes its time under development. Plan a major 2011 midcycle refreshing for the then-three-year-old car. Improve what needs to be improved from interior quality to taillight design to engines with direct injection from Buick.
I'm really impressed with what Ford did with the Fusion. It shows that a car doesn't have to be all-new to be a competitive car. It is possible to take an existing platform and improve upon it.
None of these cars are bad and I imagine most on this board would rate those 7 cars differently if we had the opportunity to test them based on our preferences.
My dad has an 09 Accord and my brother has an 08 Altima. It's not an apples to apples comparison because my dad's is loaded Ex-L v6 and my brother's Altima is a 4cyl S model I think. Both are nice cars, but the Honda feels higher quality in the way it drives and feels. That said, I like the Altima too, the design feels a bit dated now as it probably is the oldest car in the test. And while the db level may not be high in the Altima, it's been a long time since Nissan has made a Honda smooth 4cyl. It still has a course sound even if it is muffled.
Anyone who thinks Toyota is going down the tubes are fooling themselves. This test shows why they just keep selling. I don't want one, but they do what 90% of the buying public like. They're quiet, refined, easy to use, and economical. There is a reason vanilla is the best selling flavor of ice cream and the Camry appears to be the Vanilla flavor of cars. We'll see how long their "pedal" problem affects them.
That said, I'm not surprised by the Malibu's placement. I've yet to drive a GM 4cyl vehicle I've liked. I don't like the way they sound and GM IMO uses way to tall gearing in every one of their vehicles. But the Malibu is definitely the best mainstream family sedan GM has had in years if not decades.
Ford seems to be on a roll, we'll see how long they can keep it up.
They have been doing that for a long time. My 99 S-10 V6 will downshift to creep up 3-5 MPH at 65 as would my 98 Olds 88 with the 3800. It helps with fuel economy.
But the Malibu is definitely the best mainstream family sedan GM has had in years if not decades.
My brother just got a new Malibu 4cyl. He likes it a lot, I know the interior is a lot nicer than I thought it was. I do find it a bit on the small side for a midsizer, though.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Yeah, it seems Ford has been faster to update models vs. GM. Look at the Focus, F150, Expedition, Taurus/500, Mustang, and Fusion. None have gone more than 4 years I think w/o significant updates since '04 or so. Regarding the Taurus, I'm talking about since the 500 was introduced, before that Ford left the Taurus to die.
The Focus is a much older car than the Cobalt, yet Ford has refreshed several times to where it appears much fresher than the cobalt. The 500/Taurus has been updated twice since 05.
The Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban went from basically '00 -'07 unchanged, the F150 was updated in 04 and 09. The Expedition was updated in '03 and then again in '07.
Seems like GM makes a huge upgrade then lets them get old. I wonder how long the Malibu will go w/o a refresh? The Impala is all but dead, even the CTS will be due for a refresh, how long will it go until it gets one?
Even with the 6 speeds GM is gearing taller than anyone else. I'll take the extra response over absolute max fuel economy. I can't see where having to push the gas pedal 1/2 way down so I can accelerate 3-5 mph being fuel efficient.
I test drove a 6 speed Yukon and it would do over 40 in 1st gear, my 6 speed Expedition will barely go 25, IIRC 4k rpm in 1st gear is 20 mph. It's great for responsiveness and towing and 6th gear is still tall enough for 2k rpm @70 with 3.73 gears.
With 6 gears shouldn't they be able to do both? They could have a high 6th and lower 1st, 2nd, etc. Given that at one time cars had 2 or 3 speed automatics, 6 speeds is a LOT of gears.
They do, but in the Suburban, GM saddles it to a standard 3.08 axle ratio and a 3.42 is optional. Ford uses a 3.31 standard and 3.73 optional which also standard on the Expedition EL.
Here are the ratio's between ford and GM 1/2 ton trucks/SUV
GM F old gm 4speed
1st 4.03 4.17 3.06
2nd 2.36 2.34 1.63
3rd 1.53 1.52 1.00
4th 1.15 1.14 .7
5th .85 .87
6th .67 .69
Now remember the standard ratio in the GM is a 3.08/3.42 optional vs. Ford 3.31/3.73.
My Expedition has the 3.73 ratio, then consider Ford's 5.4 has considerable more torque at a lower rpm vs. the 5.3 and you see why I much prefer this setup over GM's for towing (6.2 would be nice, but expensive to equip with that engine). Pulling my boat up a steep boat ramp is effortless with the Ford setup.
Look at the old 4 speed ratios. That's what I had in my Suburban, though it did have 3.73 gears to help, but those ratios were horrible when towing. Add hills and it was torture.
Well, it IS happening elsewhere too;
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f1b3717/0!make=Hyundai&model=Genesis&ed_m- akeindex=.f1b3717
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Are you sure it downshifts, or that the torque converter didn't just unlock. It should unlock befor it downshifts.
I believe we see a new Malibu for 2012.
I don't know what these editors at MotorTrend were smoking but the ranking should have went more like this! this is all based on my comparisons of the quality inside and outside the vehicle, ride quality/handling balance, fun of driving, etc
(1) Fusion (2) Sonata (3) Altima (4) Accord (5) Legacy (6) Camry (7) Malibu
if anything, the Altima has a whole stood out and was more fun to drive then its Japanese competition and Nissan has past Toyota in interior quality; on two separate test drives of the Camry and on one with the Malibu I was able to detach pieces of the center console off, one time having it fall off itself!
keep in mind too, I'm basing the Sonata ranking on everything I've read of other people test driving it as of right now! I'm hoping I can get a chance to test drive it sometime this spring because I really like what Hyundai has done with the car; of all the test drives I did last year, I found that the Fusion and Altima had the best bodystyle, best ride/handling balance, and were the most fun to drive and I think offer the best bang for your buck! If I had to buy a mid-size sedan tomorrow it probably would be a decision between the Fusion and Altima, and maybe Sonata once I test drove it!
Since the interior on the 'bu is already nice, I'd like to see GM 1) work on the reliability (they must keep statistical data on warranty repairs, right?) of the most troublesome parts or areas of the vehicle, and then 2) work on the restyling of the outside to improve the appearance. Those two areas are IMHO the biggest obstacles to the Malibu being fully competitive (other than GM's image, which will take time).
I think on the S-10 now that you say it may be the TC unlocking, however, on the Olds 88 it usually downshifted especially on any incline. It was never a huge deal, just would have preferred a little more power in 4th gear. That car was such a nightmare that was the least of my worries.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
I really don't have a lot of experience with overdrive transmissions, but now that you mention it, I've noticed that the GM 4-speeds I've had did seem more sluggish in overdrive than the one Mopar I've had...my 2000 Intrepid. I used to think the Intrepid was kinda gutless in top gear, but it seems to do better in that gear than my Park Ave does. Now, when I need to stomp on it, the Park Ave takes off like a scalded beaver, so in the end, it's definitely faster. But the Intrepid did seemto perform better in that top gear. But then, that might be one reason the Park Ave gets such good mileage out on the highway. At 75 mph I think it's pulling around 1800-2000 rpm, while my Intrepid was pulling 2500.
I still haven't had a chance to give the Park Ave a good, long highway run, so I'm looking forward to the spring swap meet at Carlisle PA in late April, which usually kicks off the car show season for us here. My Intrepid could get around 30 mpg on that trip if I didn't push it too hard. I borrowed my uncle's '03 Corolla once for that trip, and got something like 37.5 mpg. So I'm curious to see how the Park Ave compares. It was pretty thirsty at first, but now that the weather's warming up, it seems to be doing better.
The other two GM cars I had with overdrive were an '86 Monte Carlo and an '85 LeSabre. However, with those cars, they were geared so tall anyway, you just took it for granted that overdrive was for economy only, and nothing else. I think the Monte had a 2.56:1 axle, and the LeSabre had a 2.73:1. So, throw in overdrive, and the effective final ratio on either one of those is well under 2.00:1. I do remember the LeSabre did have some guts in overdrive, once you buried its 85 mph speedo. IIRC, the 307 got its peak torque at 1600 rpm and peak hp at 3200, so once you got up over 85 mph, it was probably still near its peak torque output in top gear.
(1) Fusion (2) Sonata (3) Altima (4) Accord (5) Legacy (6) Camry (7) Malibu
If I was to rank these cars, based solely on my preferences, which are anything BUT scientific, I think it would be something like
1. Altima
2. Fusion (however, it would be a close #2, I do like the Fusion)
3. Accord (I think I'm one of the few that actually LIKES the style, and appreciates the fact that it got a bit bigger)
4. Malibu (I like the overall shape, but the rear-end looks a bit unfinished, and I'm not too crazy about the front. And it's a bit small inside for my tastes)
5/6/7 (tie) Legacy/Camry/Sonata.
The only reason I throw those last three together is that I'm not crazy about the new Sonata's style, but maybe it'll grow on me. I never was crazy about Subarus, partly because I just don't need AWD, partly because I didnt' like the styling, and partly, because traditionally, they're designed for people about 5'10" or less. However, I've heard the new Legacy is a big improvement in all regards. And the Camry is just too much of an appliance, I guess.
Still, I don't think there's a wrong choice or a loser in the bunch!
The rule of thumb is that the happier the EPA is the less happy the owner is if they want to drive in any manner that isn't like that of an 80 year old person. That said, the car drives fin if you manually lock out overdrive. But then again the MPG drops to 23 highway, which is coincidentally exactly what they got back in the 80s before they added that overdrive gear.
Hey, you need to use a better analogy! I have a whole colony of beavers living in the pond in my back yard. I chase them out of the yard from time to time, they are far from fast, scalded or not;) Though they can swim at a good clip! LOL
I'm just messing with ya. I know what you mean though. My Suburban was the same way. Gutless in o/d, but what irritated me more was the reluctance to downshift. At 65mph in o/d it usually required 3/4 pedal to downshift, then if you pushed down a hair further it would kick down from o/d to 2nd, making me look like a complete [non-permissible content removed] to my wife who's wondering what the hell am I doing.
The 6 speed in my Expedition is much better in that regard. While it doesn't have much power in 6th/od either, it is much quicker to downshift a gear or two and since the ratios are closer together it's far more seamless. That is probably what I like most about a 5 or 6 speed auto. The ratios being closer makes for smoother performance.
LOL. From that perspective, I think your right.
General Motors is mulling a radical re-engineering for the Chevrolet Corvette, centered on a more fuel-efficient, mid-engined V6 powertrain, a lightweight alloy body and a more compact footprint.
The idea is to re-energize GM's ambition for the Corvette, with fundamental changes that will make it into a contemporary global supercar. The changes are penciled into GM's product plan for the next major model change, the C8, with an on-sale date around 2016. Both coupe and convertible models are planned.
V-6 in the middle
Time to plan on buying you last v-8 'Vette!
Regards,
OW
(A V6 corvette might be ok with me but only if it were a diesel!)
It ain't that bad!
Regards,
OW
I got a brand new Chevy Cobalt with about 2,300 miles on it.
I was impressed by how far they've come from the Chevy Malibu Classic which was the last real GM I drove as a rental (not counting the lame Pontiac Grand Prix with the supercharged V6, or the Aveo I drove recently too; which didn't impress).
The Cobalt is actually somewhat refined. The engine has some decent pulling power at high RPM's, and it doesn't sound like its going to explode doing it. The interior plastics are still cheap and hard, but not excessively so. They are acceptable considering the price group. I don't like how there was no O/D button on the tranny. The radio controls were convoluted and difficult to learn.
But overall, I think they've come light years from the malibu classic with this new Cobalt. It's not in the same league as a new Civic, but it's a decent car. Much better than the Cavalier I once drove as a rental many years ago. It handled OK, but did get a bit squirrly when I had some fun with it.
Porsche seems to do OK with six cylinder engines, and GM did have those GN/GNX V6s...
I sort of like Cobalt too, but I'd still prefer my VW TDI with 100k miles to a new Cobalt...
I'd especially like a Cobalt SS if it were available without the huge spoiler...