GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,048
    The dirty little secret is that really isn't a Grand National. It's a stock Regal with black paint and the regular 110 hp 231 V-6. It's just that the chassis flex is THAT bad! :P
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    You take the GNX and I'll take a late 80's ZR-1 and we'll head to Gingerman raceway and duke it out on a track! Actually, I don't need a ZR-1 just a C-4 of the day. And we'll see who turns the best laps. I'm guessing the average person couldn't get a GNX around the course without first loosing brakes or second sliding off the track.

    I guess it depends on what you prefer. I like cars that can handle and stop as well as they go fast.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, then they replaced this cool awesome bad boy

    image

    With this ineffectual nerd:

    image
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    The interior on the RDX is nothing to write home about
    either. I think it looks cheap.


    In an earlier post you said the RDX's interior was only twice as good as a Cobalts, and you said the Cobalt was 1/3 the price (nevermind the RDX is bigger, has more power, ect).

    You also said the Cobalt's interior was "nice" to you. So if that's nice, and the RDX's interior is 2X as good, how can the RDX look cheap?

    Sounds like someone's been caught with a double standard and PRO GM bias here.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    This to is by Who? you would never contributed to the life of a GM Auto worker and you know it. You drive used.

    I seen no reason nor evidence to supsect SMarty666 has been anything but 100% honest here.

    That being said, if he did buy all of his GM's used, he still had horrible reliability and dependability. That is no excuse for GM anyway. I know many Toyota and Honda owner's who bought their Japanese vehicles used and they have all had wonderful experiences. This fact is captured in resale values of used vehicles. GM's = worthless used while the Big 3 in Japan all have good resale values.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    You do give both sides. It's that I tired of constantly reading in what I consider a pro GM discussion by a few about how this or that broke on their 19XX year car and they hate GM since that happened.

    I get tired of hearing it for a different reason. I get tired of knowing GM is still around thanks to my tax money when all of these people had all of these problems and GM stuck them with the bill to fix it.

    Everytime I hear these stories I wonder why GM treated them the same way Chrysler treated me (with indifference). Why did they never STAND UP and STAND BEHIND their products????

    It is a shame to know that these two companies never stood behind their own products and always left their customers footing the bill for things that should not break down so commonly and frequently.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    "hey dad, that's a cool looking car". I looked over and an on a flatbed truck, was a silver 2010 Buick Lacrosse.

    I always worry and wonder why a car is on a flatbed truck if it is new? Why couldn't it be driven?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    about the Crosstour is that when you open the back door, the rear corner of the window frame is right at eye level. It's the perfect corner to poke out your eye. I'm surprised they let that through.

    Oh come on now, how tall are you? I'm sure everyone else is perfectly fine with the height of the doors and window frames.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    But if you are getting in to the car and you duck down to clear your head from the roofline...
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Don't worry, remember when Chrysler was bailed out the FIRST time? Nothing changed much and bankruptcy prevailed. There is no "set in stone" guarantee that GM doesn't fall to the same fate in present-day government support.

    Regards,
    OW
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....Sounds like someone's been caught with a double standard and PRO GM bias here. "

    Not necessarily.

    The Cobalt Starts out at $15 grand, whereas the RDX is about $32,500. So relatively speaking, the RDX CAN have a much better interior, yet "look cheap" for it's price point, compared w/ other vehicles in it's class, like the X3, Q5, RX 350, Enclave, etc. And the Cobalt's interior may strike him as nice compared to the base Corolla, Civic, Accent, or Sentra.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....Why did they never STAND UP and STAND BEHIND their products???? "

    Hey, they've always stood behind me and my cars w/ my service needs.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....Don't worry, remember when Chrysler was bailed out the FIRST time? Nothing changed much and bankruptcy prevailed."

    Don't forget, CHrysler was doing OK when they "merged" with Daimler. The Germans gutted that company, and left them for dead.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Oh come on now, how tall are you? I'm sure everyone else is perfectly fine with the height of the doors and window frames.

    Have you actually stood next to this car? It is a tall vehicle. My wife is only 5" tall. I am 5"8". The door corner is at a dangerous height.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Daimler bought Chrysler in 1998....they failed the first time in 1979.

    I wouldn't say they were doing OK back then...would you? By the way, the then-GM Chairman was AGAINST bailing out Chrysler.... :surprise:

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,048
    Daimler bought Chrysler in 1998....they failed the first time in 1979.

    I wouldn't say they were doing OK back then...would you? By the way, the then-GM Chairman was AGAINST bailing out Chrysler....


    One thing I'll say for the first bailout, was that Chrysler actually DID pay their loans back, and in full,with interest, in 1983, years ahead of schedule. And didn't cost the taxpayer a dime. That time, at least.

    And back when Daimler took them over, Chrysler was on top of the world. They had the most up-to-date fleet of the domestics, the biggest marketshare in ages, were sitting on a ton of cash, and were building fairly reliable cars for the most part.

    What Daimler did was push back new designs, raid the cash, mortgage all the property to the hilt, and then toss the rest over their shoulders like an empty beer can.

    As an example of products getting pushed back, the replacements for the Intrepid/Concorde/300 were originally supposed to come out in 2002. They would offer a choice of FWD, RWD, or AWD, and engine choices would have included the 3.7 V-6, 4.7 V-8, and the Hemi. And there were going to be two different styles. One would be a low-slung, sporty style, in the vein of that late 1990's Charger concept that was making the rounds before the DCX takeover. The other would be a more upright car suitable for duty as a full-sized family car. Dodge and Chrysler would both offer each style.

    Instead what we got was a push back to roughly March of 2004, when the 300 was launched as an early '05. Sales seemed strong at first...until you take into account that one model, the 300, was now filling the shoes of the departed Intrepid, Concorde, LHS, and 300M.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Hey, they've always stood behind me and my cars w/ my service needs.

    But I thought your GM vehicles never had any problems like Lemko?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    And back when Daimler took them over, Chrysler was on top of the world. They had the most up-to-date fleet of the domestics, the biggest marketshare in ages, were sitting on a ton of cash, and were building fairly reliable cars for the most part.

    Absolutely NOT TRUE AT ALL. You are so far off base here that it borders on the ludicrous. Chrysler was never on top of the world, they went bankrupt in 1979 and got bailed out, then proceeded to go bankrupt and be bailed out again for the 2nd time in 2008. That's less than 30 years of patheticness. Owens Corning sells asphalt roof shingles that last longer then that!

    They were sitting on a ton of cash because they built vehicles for about $2,000 to 4,500 dollars of such low substandard quality, and then sold them off for $15K to $25K. It was all a big fraud.

    Also, Chrysler's reliablility rankings were always in the pits, and they were always bottom feeders when it came to dependability. I can pull out old CR magazines and yearly summary books from CR if you want. Chrysler always got black dots all over the place. Their vehicles were always on the "Used cars to avoid list" year after year. I should have listened to CR.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    edited March 2010
    andres3 you are correct according to my recollection, but have you overlooked the movie Vanishing Point?
    to relate this to GM, i would not consider any post 1975 mopar car over a GM.
    i hear there might be another domestic manufacturer too, but let's not go on another non-GM tangent?
  • carstrykecarstryke Member Posts: 168
    I mean seriously Lacrosse/Regal/ Caddy ATS/SRX/ Chevy Volt

    Don't get me wrong these are all great cars but what % of car buyers can afford these vehicles or are willing to spend that kind of money on these vehicles???

    Last time i checked the average income was like $30,000 a year. Now is someone making this amount likly to buy a vehicle listed above? Its just simple math.

    And yes im well aware that they have the 2008 Malibu 2010 Nox and 2011 Cruze but they are so damn late to the game that everyone else are too busy enjoying their CRV/Rav4/Sportage/Mazda3/Camry/Sonata to even give GM a 2nd chance.

    How was GM #1 for decades and decades? You old guys know better than me so lemme know. From my understanding GM's sucess started at the Chevrolet Impala because it was a very attractive automobile that was practical and everyone could afford.

    Lastly i would just like to point a finger at Hyundai and Kia an Ford. Have you noticed their recent market share gains and recent releases/upcoming releases and market focus for their new product line????
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    So I drove by a dealership yesterday afternoon, not one that I go by often as it is far from my house. Anyways, there is a GMC/Buick/ (that other corpse that used to be there) and up on their display riser out front is a Toyota Prius with some obvious front end collision damage to it.

    Nice. :sick:

    I wish I had a stash of Obama bumper stickers around so I could go put one on every single one of their cars they had on the lot for sale.

    Government Motors baby :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd think I'd trust anything andre1969 says about Mopar. He's like Edmunds' authority on all things Mopar.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Yeah............what were they thinking? Start of GM's trouble?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Average income is only $30K? Shoot, that's barely a subsistance living in Philly. Instead of car buying, I'd be thinking more of a good used firearm at that income level. You will most definitely need it in the 'hood!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited December 2009
    It was definitely one of their STUPIDER ideas! How could anybody replace that awesome, sleek, powerful, RWD beauty with that ugly, truncated, FWD turd with the stupid door handle in the B-pillar is beyond me. I most definitely hope Roger Smith is in such a low point in hell for ruining my beloved GM that he has to look up to see Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,072
    edited March 2010
    How could anybody replace that awesome, sleek, powerful, RWD beauty with that ugly, truncated, FWD turd

    Yeah, but they had the "Grand Sport" models.... ;)

    image

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Its not like sales were down, they couldnt make enough Regals, not just the turbos, and the Monte Carlos, Grand Prix also.

    Rather than make a turbo Vette, and OMG get help from Buick engineers to do it, keep making a profit on cars that were selling at the time, and there would be a reason to pay much more for the Vette nope, you made our Vette look silly, you gotta go.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,048
    I think the 1988 W-body Regal was the first Buick that really made me think of Buick as being an old people's car. There's just something about that overall style that, even though it may be aerodynamic, just screams old-fogey to me.

    Aerodynamics saved Ford's butt in the 1980's, with cars like the T-bird, Taurus, and yes, even the Tempo. But I think they had the opposite effect on Buick. An '81-87 Regal has sort of a tough, muscular look to it, even with the standard skinny tires, wire wheels, and landau roof. It's a car that can be almost anything you want it to be, with just a few simple changes. In base form, it was a decent coupe. In Limited form, it could be quite luxurious. Get a V-8 and the F41 suspension, and it wasn't a bad handler or performer. Or go with a T-type or Grand National, if you want something faster. Throw whitewalls and wire hubcaps on it if you're old (or like that sort of thing), or go with some rally wheels and blackwall tires if you want something a bit more youthful. (Or nowadays, throw 22's on it, which seems to be all the rage. :P )

    I think the problem though, is that all of GM's personal luxury coupes in the 1981-87 timeframe were like that. Sort of a mix-and-match, to where you could take any Regal, Monte Carlo, Cutlass Supreme, or Grand Prix, and turn it into a cheap coupe, a luxury car, a sporty car, young person's car, old people's car, and everything in between.

    That muddled the image in a lot of buyer's eyes, so GM tried to get each brand to focus more on a target niche. Pontiac would go back to performance. Ironically, something that had been missing from the 1981-87 Grand Prix, as it never got a hopped-up engine like the Monte SS, Cutlass 4-4-2, or Buick T-type/Grand National did. Olds was going to try to go for import buyers, with all that "not your father's Oldsmobile" nonsense that alienated the traditional buyers, but didn't fool enough import buyers to sustain them. And Buick was going to concentrate on a bit more mature, traditional market. Unfortunately, I think they went TOO mature. Those faithful to Buick stayed with them, but as they got older they either quit driving or bought cars less frequently. And the newer crops of 50-somethings, instead of buying Buicks, were going for BMW's, Benzes, and Audis if they could afford them, and Toyotas if they couldn't.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    I wouldnt call a 305 a performance engine, H.O. or not(Monte Carlo SS).....imagine how many more they woulda sold with a 350!!

    The cars were selling............we gota pull the plug.

    We need better EPA numbers, yeah thats it.

    Nobody wants a V6 Buick thats faster than a V8 Vette in the 1/4 mile that happens to cost less also.

    We're GM we can do no wrong.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,048
    I wouldnt call a 305 a performance engine, H.O. or not(Monte Carlo SS).....imagine how many more they woulda sold with a 350!!

    Well yeah, not by 1960's musclecar standards. But by the early/mid 1980's, a midsized car with 180 hp that could do 0-60 in 8 seconds was starting to look pretty tempting! Chrysler wasn't building anything like that anymore, although they were starting to go the turbo route with their smaller cars, and some of those could be pretty quick, especially with a stick. Ford was getting some pretty impressive numbers out of the 302. If you bought it in a Mustang or a Mark VII LSC that is. Otherwise, you were stuck with the generic 140-150 hp engine that went in T-birds, Crown Vics, etc. Closest thing Ford made to an affordable musclecar around that time would've been the 1984-85 LTD LX, a 4-door sedan with a 165 hp 302 and quicker gearing that would do 0-60 in about 9 seconds. Laugh if you want to, but back in 1985, it was a pretty big deal if a car could break 10 seconds in 0-60. Heck, a lot of them were still pushing 13-15 seconds or more!

    Unfortunately though, sales on those personal luxury coupes WERE falling. The coupe market in general was drying up. The Cutlass Supreme was the #4 selling car in 1984, and it dropped to #9 for 1985, and continued to slip. Now granted, that includes sedan sales, but the vast majority of these things were sold as coupes. Most sedan buyers went for the Cutlass Ciera.

    Ironically, the performance versions kept seeing increased sales! The best years for the Monte SS and the Grand National were 1986-87. I'd have to look up the stats to be sure, but I think something like 35-40% of all Montes were SS models by then, while the Grand National accounted for something like 25% of all Regal sales. The Olds 442, however, never did too well. I think it only sold maybe 3-5,000 per year. And Pontiac's Grand Prix 2+2 of 1986 fame was a joke. It looked like a more awkward version of the Monte SS Aerocoupe, but just had a standard 150 hp 305 under the hood. Same engine as a 1986 Monte Carlo base model I once had. Not a bad engine for what it was, but not a performance car.

    It's a shame that GM didn't update these cars to keep up with the times, rather than just rake in the profits and slowly let them die, before replacing them with FWD models. They could have gone the same route Ford did with the T-bird/Cougar, keeping them RWD but still advancing them. Ultimately I'm sure the plug would have been pulled, as it was with the T-bird/Cougar, but if GM did it right, they could've gotten maybe another 10-12 years out of those RWD coupes.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....I wouldn't say they were doing OK back then...would you?"

    I did mean '98, not '79. When I say OK, I mean OK, not stupenous. The first gen new Ram truck was selling like hotcackes, compared w/ the previous gen, everybody was Hemi crazy, the LH cars were well received, and the Neon's were selling well, not to mention the Caravan was still on top then. That's not to say they didn't have their issues with quality, as we all know.

    But Daimler, instead of treating them as equals, treated them as the red headed stepchild, then when things got ugly, they sold them. How can you "sell" your "equal" partner?
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    No 305 no. Not a performance engine. Just put a 350 in, thats performance.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    My wife's "04 Rainier just had major work done to the front differential. The AWD stopped working. The bill was going to be $2200, and GM knocked it down to $850. That $850 is the ONLY non pm money put into this car in 6.5 years
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited March 2010
    OMG!!!! :):D :shades:

    Uh, honey, you're going to have to wait on that new LaCrosse...
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Now,now Mike, I'm sure theres plenty to go around.
  • carstrykecarstryke Member Posts: 168
    maybe GM should be trying to distance itself from Cadillac :P
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    My wife's "04 Rainier just had major work done to the front differential.

    How many miles on it? Has it done any towing?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It already distanced itself from the market share it had. Owning a GM is not the in thing anymore. Is anyone listening?? :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh wow, a brake fitting may corrode when exposed to road salt. Shoot, keep your wheels clean of that crud and you won't have to worry much about it. Some of you guys really have to reach to bash GM.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Owning a GM car is ALWAYS in fashion!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,048
    Oh wow, a brake fitting may corrode when exposed to road salt.

    Heck, I thought stuff like that was just a normal part of the aging process in a car...although I wouldn't expect it to be happening in a 2007 car.

    I'm impressed that GM is stepping up and replacing the parts, though. I wonder if there's something they do to the brake lines and fittings and such these days to make them last longer than back in the old days? Galvanized lines, maybe? I know rubber technology has improved as well, so hoses should last longer than they used to. So I guess GM just goofed and accidentally put in a part that's substandard...by today's standards, at least?

    Now that I think about it, my uncle's '97 Silverado needed a bunch of brake work done to it back in 2003, when it was only 6 years old! It had brake lines that were rusted through in places. My '85 Silverado lost its rear brakes a couple months ago, but I think it was partly my doing. After we had the first blizzard back in December, I got a bit lazy digging the driveway out. I dug out just about to the snowbank that the plows threw up, but then figured I'd just get a running start with the truck and knock through the rest of it. NOT a good idea, when a lot of that "snow" was actually chunks of ice! The truck hit the snow bank, smashed through part of it, but then ended up riding up on it and had to be dug out. :blush: The brake lines were probably rusty enough and just about to let go anyway, and I'm guessing that some ice chunks hit them and weakened them further.

    Then, just to test the truck's braking (yeah, that's it...it was all in the name of safety. :blush: ) once we got the truck out, out on a wide road with no other traffic, I got up to about 40 mph and slammed on the brakes to see how the truck would act on a slick surface. It stopped much more impressively than I thought it would, but I'd imagine a couple times of that didn't do much for the brakes, either.

    But, that truck's also 25 years old, and this was the first time it needed any brake work other than just pads and shoes. So I'm not gonna complain to GM about it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I changed the brakes on a 2004 Subaru Outback not too long ago and they were pretty corroded. Road salt is murder on these components, especially when the owner isn't as concientious as I am about cleaning my car. I'm even more obsessive in the winter because I know that salt just eats everything it touches. I needed a lot of penetrating oil and brute force to make those bolts budge.
  • skeezixskeezix Member Posts: 45
    GM identified a problem and issued a recall. If Toyota had done that, maybe 54 people might still be alive.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Just over 60K, and no towing. What the service mgr says is that the front axle always has some torque (about 10%) applied at all times. This way, in the event of wheel slippage, the engagement in instantaneous. There was a service campaign for the GMC version which is "on demand 4wd" not AWD, for a slight hesitation in the engagement of the front axle giving a slight "jolt", which I feel may be related to, but not the exact cause of our problem.

    GM and the Buick dealer took good care of us. The rep from GM called me every other day to keep me aprised of the situation. It did take awhile for the parts to come in.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    edited March 2010
    $850 is still serious cash. I had more miles on my '03 Honda before I got rid of it and never had to pay a dime to Honda for unscheduled maintenance. I have 61K+ miles right now on my Audi and haven't had to pay a dime in unscheduled maintenance.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Boy, if I felt confident that I could hit 61K with no issues on an Audi I wouldn't even have to think about anything else. Beautiful cars.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    2010:
    Chevy Cruze
    Chevy Volt
    Buick Regal
    Cadillac CTS Coupe
    Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon/ Escalade facelift ?
    Acadia/Enclave facelift ?

    2011:
    Chevy Orlando?
    Buick Cruze-based compact?

    2012:
    Cadillac XTS
    Chevy Malibu

    2013
    New CTS?

    Not many new vehicles in the pipelines now that GM's divisions got cut into half. GM should now be able to use the development cost to create outstanding vehicles, where previously had to develop so many cars to please all dealers.
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