GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    The only way GM & Chrysler (and Ford too) will win back formerly burned customers will be to offer a progressive rebate warranty.

    Everytime the car has a problem, your purchase price is reduced via a rebate. Everytime it has another problem, the rebate is increased more and more at a good clip or exponential rate. You will not be inconvenienced with unexpected costs, so a rental/loaner will be provided everytime free of charge. Tow trucks will be covered for 100,000 miles or at least 7 years. The purchase price will be reasonable enough that depreciation isn't horrible and is in line with reality (shouldn't need huge incentives, price it right in the first place!).

    In this way with this program, if someone received a car as bad as the one Chrysler sold me, they will essentially get it for free in the long run, which is as it should be.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Wow, I would've needed this service a grand total of "0" times! Don't mind the other part about reasonable purchase price. All cars are too expensive.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,086
    From a business standpoint how would that company survive? Essentially you want them to not only warranty the product, give a loaner vehicle AND compensate you? I mean C'mon now. That is above and beyond any reasonable program IMO.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I think Hyundai had it right when their rep was in the toilet and offered the 10 year / 100K warranty. I think GM has followed suit.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    The Van Nuys plant doesn't exist anymore. It's now a shopping center called "The Plant" I believe.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,086
    Yep, the long warranty is a great marketing tool. I am sure that per unit it doesn't cost them that much.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The Camaro plant in Oshawa is state of the art.

    No, the Ford plant in Brazil is state of the art. :shades:
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Excellent idea!

    Mr. Whitacre, ARE YOU LISTENING? :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited April 2010
    Well, the old companies didn't survive, now, did they. They profit because they never have to rebate since their products are the BEST IN THE WORLD. That's why 0% at Toyota drives the entire industry sales increases today. Their reputation has been tarnished now but they benefit from years of great products.

    No talk just action backed by real-life skin in the game.

    Like I said, you can't just talk quality into your products.

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, funny how all those well-paying manufacturing jobs were replaced with a whole bunch of crappy low-wage retail jobs. Same thing happened in Philly when they imploded the huge Sears Warehouse on Roosevelt Blvd. They replaced this gigantic complex and architectural gem with a cruddy ghetto mall. When Sears went, it took the neighborhood with it. Whitman's Chocalate factory, also on the Blvd. was razed to make way for another crappy retail complex complete with a Wal~Mart with all the ambience of a third-world country. The site of the massive Bethlehem Steel Works in Bethlehem, PA is also a crappy retail and casino complex - jobs that pay nothing, produce nothing, and just suck capital out of an already down-on-its-luck region.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    New strip malls everywhere, while older ones sit around as vacant blight. Just another result of our screwed up tax laws.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Published: 4/1/10, 6:06 PM EDT
    By BROOKE DONALD

    FREMONT, Calif. (AP) - California's sole auto plant shut down Thursday as the last car rolled off the assembly line and thousands of now unemployed workers walked out the doors, some crying.

    A Toyota Corolla was the final vehicle to move through production at New United Motor Manufacturing Inc., known as Nummi, and a throng of workers accompanied it on the final leg of the line.

    "I saw a whole lotta men crying in there when things started going quiet and we said our goodbyes. It made me choke up," said David Guerra, who has worked at Nummi for 25 years - as long as the plant's been open. He also worked at the site for 14 1/2 years before that, when it was a General Motors Co. plant.

    The Nummi plant, established in 1984 as a joint venture between GM and Toyota Motors Corp., employed 4,700 workers. GM made the Pontiac Vibe there but decided to withdraw from the alliance last year after filing for bankruptcy protection; the Detroit automaker is now liquidating its stake in the factory.

    Toyota made the Corolla sedan and Tacoma pickup at the plant but said in August that without GM, it could not sustain the factory and would halt production April 1.

    There have been no announcements of what will become of the sprawling property that covers more than half a square mile near the southern tip of San Francisco Bay.

    Many of the employees were members of the United Auto Workers, and most are due to receive a minimum payout of $21,175 each, adjusted for years of service and other factors. The UAW represents the Nummi workers because of its history with GM. The union doesn't represent any other Toyota workers in the U.S.

    For the past several weeks, state and local officials have appealed to Toyota to keep the factory open - both in an effort to save jobs and as a way to raise the Japanese automaker's standing following a string of massive safety recalls.

    The pleas didn't stop, even as workers trickled out of the factory and into job centers across the street.

    A group of clergy from CLUE - Clergy and Laity United for Economic Justice - held a service outside the plant Thursday. The Rev. Carol Been said the group was sending a letter to Toyota asking the car maker to reopen the plant.

    "We want to bring the moral authority of religious leaders to call them back to their way, a better way, the Toyota way," she said. "We think the closure is penny-wise and pound foolish."

    Job centers were set up nearby to provide counseling. Workers also filled out forms to collect benefits.

    State officials also were pursuing federal grants to help those impacted by the closure. A recent report prepared for a commission set up by State Treasurer Bill Lockyer to study the issue said about 25,000 people, including parts suppliers, could lose their jobs as a result of the plant closing.

    Vonda Jones, 44, of Brentwood, who worked on the Tacomas that stopped rolling off the assembly line last week, said adjusting to her new reality has been difficult.

    "My alarm went off last Monday and I didn't know what to do. It was like, 'Wow, it's really over,'" she said.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    From a business standpoint how would that company survive? Essentially you want them to not only warranty the product, give a loaner vehicle AND compensate you? I mean C'mon now. That is above and beyond any reasonable program IMO.

    I don't think so. The program would have no costs to the company if they designed vehicles like Toyota and Honda do. Then you don't need warranty services, and like Lemko said, the visits and costs are zero on both sides. Everyone's happy if they make a quality product that doesn't require the "use" of my program. My program simply punishes and penalizes companies that use huge warranty budgets to cover their quality problems.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    I think Hyundai had it right when their rep was in the toilet and offered the 10 year / 100K warranty. I think GM has followed suit.

    Unfortunately GM was only willing to stand behind their products half as much as Hyundai was willing to do (10 years vs. 5!!!).

    I love pointing that out, why does GM let me? Fix it! :sick:
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....Unfortunately GM was only willing to stand behind their products half as much as Hyundai was willing to do "

    Not necessarily true. Go look at a year old used Hyundai (there are plenty of rental returns). Where's the 10/100? GONE!!! NOT TRANSFERRABLE.

    Now, look at the used GM cars. ALL have the balance of the 5/100 left on them, as the warranty is transferrable.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    don't think so. The program would have no costs to the company if they designed vehicles like Toyota and Honda do. Then you don't need warranty services, and like Lemko said, the visits and costs are zero on both sides. Everyone's happy if they make a quality product that doesn't require the "use" of my program. My program simply punishes and penalizes companies that use huge warranty budgets to cover their quality problems.

    Yeah I'm sure that Toyota's recall and warranty costs are really low.
    The millions of vehicles recalled for Sudden Acceleration and brake
    issues was a trivial cost. Along with the buying back of their Tacomas
    and Tundras for hopelessly rusted frames so they would not get sued
    if a gas tank fell off of one of them and caused injury or death to someone
    following behind. That doesn't add up to much money. Oh and replacing
    whole frames on later model trucks at over $10,000 per vehicle is a drop
    in the bucket for Toyota. I wonder how many frames GM has replaced
    on their trucks under warranty. I haven't heard of one. I know a couple
    of people personally who have had the Tacoma frame replacement.
    Good luck to the people who bought these trucks in the last few years
    thinking that the issue is solved. Every year that goes by more dangerously
    rusted frames appear. Toyota does not know how to build a durable
    steel truck frame.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    Not necessarily true. Go look at a year old used Hyundai (there are plenty of rental returns). Where's the 10/100? GONE!!! NOT TRANSFERRABLE.

    So the moral of the story is buy your Hyundai's new, and buy your GM's used. I'm not sure NEW GM car dealerships like that fact.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    I thought this was a GM forum :confuse: I think your looking for the Toyota forum next door ;) .
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    It is not Camry and Accord that Malibu has to worry about. The Hyundai Sonata outsold the Malibu in March.
    What's more, The Sonata will offer A 2.0L turbo version with best in class power (276hp), while delivering 32+ highway mpg. There will also be a hybrid.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    Andre3, where do you get the idea that warrantees cost Honda & Toyota less than they cost GM?
    Is this information actually available in annual/public reports somewhere?
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    Yes, I've seen published reports of the warranty costs the auto making companies have incurred from year to year. The Big 3 of USA had to spend more on warranty work than the BIG 3 from Japan (no surprise there).

    It is hard to find though. I've only ran into the published reports one time. I don't have time to do a google search and browse right now.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Now, look at the used GM cars. ALL have the balance of the 5/100 left on them, as the warranty is transferrable.

    IMO, those powertrain warranty's past the 36k bumper to bumper don't mean a whole lot. Lots of wholes in the coverage. Sure, if the engine throws a rod or the trans falls out your covered, but lots of things are not which are also expensive.

    I had a coil pack die on my Expedition at 56k and it was not covered under the 60k powertrain warranty. The whole ordeal led to over $1k out of my pocket on a vehicle that was still covered under warranty.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Yes, I've seen published reports of the warranty costs the auto making companies have incurred from year to year. The Big 3 of USA had to spend more on warranty work than the BIG 3 from Japan (no surprise there).

    It is hard to find though. I've only ran into the published reports one time. I don't have time to do a google search and browse right now.


    I've seen those reports from time to time too. I've seen reports from some warranty company or something, and everyone has shown the D3 spend a lot more on warranty costs per vehicle than the Japan manufacturers. I haven't seen anything lately, but I'd think the gas should be closing. The one area that can really skew them is trucks. Those diesel 3/4 and 1 tons can really rack up the warranty costs and the Japanese manufacturers don't have that issue.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2010
    I like Warranty Week for that kind of information. They do just about everything so you have to dig a bit for car info. Their most recent graph comparing car companies is just through 2008 though.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Yeah, Warranty Week, that is where I saw most of the reports.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    It seems pretty accurate, and it does have a few good pokes at the guvmint. Is this going to be a situation where the more GM sells of the Volt, the more the government is going to lose, because they're putting out $7,500 per car? And you probably can't pay for that factory and all the suppliers, and any part of the legacy costs by making 10,000 or so per year?

    http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/chevy-volt-chevy-volt-toyota- -honda/4/1/2010/id/27590

    What GM needs is something like the wow of the '64 Mustang. They need something that is revolutionary and will sell like bread.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    WE have a dealer that always advertises 1 year old GM vehicles on TV. Dealers make more money on used than new.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    edited April 2010
    IMO, those powertrain warranty's past the 36k bumper to bumper don't mean a whole lot.

    Yeah, it wouldn't be a benefit to me either. My wife and I drive each of our vehicles about 7,000 miles/year. So most of the warranty is useless to me. A 10 year/100K miles warranty is much more attractive.

    And yes it is a very unpleasant experience to learn that not everything on the engine or transmission is covered, or that you've voided the warranty because you've lost 3rd party maintenance records, ... I find cruise-lines to have the same marketing attitude which PO's their customers, by nickel-and-diming them for things not included. BMW has the right idea, that everything is free for the 1st 4years, all maintenance, wear, and breakdowns; no ifs, ands or buts if you just bring it in for maintenance near when they recommend.

    I'd rather have the manufacturer subtract the cost of those long warranties from the vehicle, and offer a lower price. Make the extended warranties optional.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    What you fail to mention is that GM's incentives are DOWN 25% from this time last year and Toyota's are UP 45%. Honda is up 25%, and Nissan is up 10%
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....IMO, those powertrain warranty's past the 36k bumper to bumper don't mean a whole lot......had a coil pack die on my Expedition at 56k and it was not covered under the 60k powertrain warranty."

    Correct, but that is industry wide.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited April 2010
    And they're still above the Industry average whereas Toyota (and everybody else) remain below Industry average...

    Increasing Incentives at Toyota were inevitable. To expect otherwise would've been foolish. They had Government Motors and others offering up "conquest cash" while feeding the hysteria with displays of wrecked Toyotas so what were they to do, just give in and abandon those sales?

    And where the spin doctors and doomsdayers where predicting (and hoping) an implosion at Toyota city and dancing on Toyotas grave, it turns out that all the efforts made to "spread the hate" and propoganda did very little to affect Toyota in the end as they still managed to trounce Ford and come within spitting distance of a fleet heavy (up 64%) Government Motors.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    One reason I got my Plymouth Voyager back in '89 was because they were running a 7/70 powertrain warranty special. That paid for three head gaskets.

    In '99 when we replaced the Voyager, Nissan had the longest powertrain warranty at 5/60. The identical Mercury van just went to 3/36. That tipped the scales. Didn't need it but a longer factory warranty is a buying factor for some of us.

    I'd love to see GM match Hyundai.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    edited April 2010
    ".....They had Government Motors and others offering up "conquest cash" while feeding the hysteria with displays of wrecked Toyotas so what were they to do, just give in and abandon those sales?"

    Nevertheless, Toymotor's is going in the wrong direction while GM's is going in the right direction. Even Automotive News pointed this out 2 weeks ago.

    So, what happens on April 5th, when all these incentives run out? In spite of these incentives, GM's sales have increased last month as well. I'll bet GM's sales increase next month too.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    AP: SHANGHAI – General Motors Co. and its joint ventures say their sales jumped 68 percent in March over a year earlier to a new monthly record.

    The 230,048 GM vehicles sold in March in China set a record for the 15th straight month, the company said Friday. (Comparing to 188,011 sold in the US in the same month).

    Sales in the first quarter surged 71 percent to 623,546 units, GM said in a statement.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    edited April 2010
    Here's the sales volume and % change of the US light vehicles:

    Rank Company YTD 2010 % change Market share
    1 General Motors 475,861 16% 18.7%
    2 Ford Motor Co. 441,708 37% 17.4%
    3 Toyota 385,686 7% 15.1%
    4 Honda (American) 256,412 11% 10.1%
    5 Chrysler Group LLC 234,215 -5% 9.2%
    6 Nissan 228,229 31% 9.0%
    7 Hyundai Group 188,205 14% 7.4%
    8 VW 79,909 37% 3.1%
    9 Subaru 57,494 38% 2.3%
    10 Mazda 55,941 4% 2.2%
    11 BMW Group 55,129 7% 2.2%
    12 Daimler AG 51,996 15% 2.0%
    13 Mitsubishi 13,623 -2% 0.5%
    14 Jaguar Land Rover 9,091 6% 0.4%
    15 Suzuki 5,661 -63% 0.2%
    16 Porsche 5,222 6% 0.2%
    17 Other (estimate) 882 -4% 0.0%
    18 Maserati 394 44% 0.0%
    19 Saab Spyker 133 0.0%
    20 Isuzu -100% 0.0%

    TOTAL 2,545,791 15%

    Note that the GM and Ford's YTD growth are both higher than the market average (15%); while Toyota and Honda are both lower than market average.

    In Mar, even with desperate incentives, Toyota' growth (40%) is still behind GM and Ford's 43% each (core brands). Let's see how long Toyota's incentives can last and what happens after that.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Again, fleet sales at gm were up 64 percent and ford was up more than 30 percent. Market share should mean diddly squat anyways...
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    You're absolutely right. Business is not about having the largest market-share, or the prettiest products, or the best reputation, UNLESS it makes you $$. All the " ... but we're best if you look at the numbers this way", is a bunch of garbage unless you are making $$ - profit!!, not just revenue.

    The measure of a good company is does it make Profit. profit will weigh everything you do - the good, the average, and the bad, and tell you overall how your product, service, and reputation is.

    GM failed to make profit and went bankrupt, regardless of their market-share, and various ways they claimed to be good in this-or-that.

    Let's all say together - Profit is the measure of a well run company. When GM can make profit without being given bailout $ or loans, then GM is a success.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    And all the other parts fail on the GM cars but the power train is warrantied. Pretty funny!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yea, GM BRANDS are down 42% from this time last year also. Face the music...GM has to pay the most to move it's sales LESS than the competition.

    Let me know when that changes....I'm taking a break from GM for a decade or so. :D

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I wonder how much of GM's sales "increase" is the moving of GM loyalists from Saturn/Hummer/Saab/Pontiac to Chevy/Buick/GMC? The GM growth is in the remaining brands, not GM as a whole.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "....Yea, GM BRANDS are down 42% from this time last year also. Face the music...GM has to pay the most to move it's sales LESS than the competition."

    And they have for awhile. What would be interesting to see is what models have more cash on the hood, against what models have less. Trucks still make up a decent portion of GM's sales, and generally they have the bigger incentives (as well as profits).
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....Again, fleet sales at gm were up 64 percent and ford was up more than 30 percent. Market share should mean diddly squat anyways... "

    What you fail to mention is that fleet sales are up because companies are buying the cars, and not because they are dumping them. Also, what are they moving?? If it is Fusions and MKZ's and Lacrosses and CTS', that's not good. But if it's the DTS, Impala, Panther platforms, that's better, as these cars are outdated and due for a revamping.

    BTW, if market share means diddly, then Hundee ain't the shing star everybody thinks they are. They are rental whores too.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Not a chance! They REALLY don't care about the customer at the end of the day over profit....or do they?

    OK, Mr. Whitacre...your move.

    May the best car win. Period. The END. :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    So, what happens on April 5th, when all these incentives run out? In spite of these incentives, GM's sales have increased last month as well. I'll bet GM's sales increase next month too.

    Toyota up 40% GM up 22% for March will turn to Toyota up 10% over GM in April. You're on!!

    Remember, the incentives WILL continue in April, typically a slow month. GM needs to pay back it's bailout loan. Toyota doesn't!

    May the Best Car Win.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Absolutely! Who do you think will buy most of GM's stock in an IPO? No one in the U.S.A., that's a done deal.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I agree Hi Undie is a heavy leaser. Why, my first expereince was a sonata rental.

    However, their marketing decisions simply obliterate GM in the last 12 months. When their quality improved and their prices CONTINUE to beat the General Morons, then they will continue to gain customers....lease or consumer. :D

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited April 2010
    I agree Hi Undie is a heavy leaser. Why, my first expereince was a sonata rental.

    However, their marketing decisions simply obliterate GM in the last 12 months.


    Did you see that they are providing the owner's manual of new Equus sedans on Apple iPads? Brilliant! Hyundai's marketing department is really earning their salaries!

    Where is GM's innovation in marketing? For such a large company they really have lousy marketing. I can't think of any slogans or advertising differentiators for their divisions, other than Caddy. The ones that I can think of are decades old.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    What? How a bout: "May the Best Car Win". Seems like they were shooting for the CTS-V beating the Germans on the Nurburgring.

    Seriously, High Undie's gonna rule. The '11 Sonata BLOWS AWAY the Ford and Chevy offerings in looks....price...desirability...

    May the Best Car Win!

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Seriously, High Undie's gonna rule. The '11 Sonata BLOWS AWAY the Ford and Chevy offerings in looks....price...desirability...

    On paper it looks impressive. The turbo 4 offering 274hp and 34mpg hwy is indeed impressive. Plus a hybrid model. Hyundai seems to be on a roll.
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