GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I am impressed with Honda engineering. I agree some of the China parts are crap. Just that the parts GM uses are lower than that. That is a crying shame but I am used to that and no surprise there.

    When you pay more for a GM and loose the value faster, I hardly think GM products contribute to a positive effect on the CPI. In fact, Hyundai probably is the best example on the steeper gain in quality contributing to higher sales, greater balance to the value proposition for customer and corporate and is a wake-up call to the competition. Audi comes to mind in the premium segment.

    Games are just that. At the need of the day, they lead to failure. AFAIC, GM has NOT learned their very recent lesson!

    Regards,
    OW
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    "I am impressed with Honda engineering."

    I own two and I'm not really. They drive nice, but as they age they have their share of problems just as other brands I've owned. In fact, you seldom hear of AC problems these days except Honda. I think they are overpriced now that I've had them for awhile and the blogs seem to indicate a greater number of problems with more recent models which gives me further pause in buying another one.

    I agree that Hyundai has made some impressive gains, but I think Korean govt money has been helping them a lot, plus Korea is extremely protective against import competition giving Hyundai another boost. If you don't like GM because of govt money, then Hyundai really doesn't seem any different to me.

    Audi has certainly come a long way and seems to have fewer problems than their sibling VW, but Audi costs a pretty penny and isn't really a Honda or Hyundai competitor. I think Audi puts Cadillac to shame though.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I seriously think GM needs to shift out of BS mode and just make great products. Perhaps they will but not right now. Remember, the jury is out on the repayment. I have a link to their corporate site and still get sick at the BS!

    I'm going to support circlew here. Yes he can be tough on GM, but let's look at slogans:

    BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine - do we believe this? Well it's certainly pretty close for a mainstream brand, right?

    Audi (from their web site) - Audi is a manufacturer of exquisite cars - attractive, sophisticated, and technically perfect - Well this seems more true than not. Perhaps not technically perfect, perhaps not all exquisite - but more true than not.

    Ford - at fordvehicles.com "We're leading by example" - I'd agree with that.

    Mazda - zoom zoom - does that mean anything? I know that the Mazda 3 and 6 are sportier driving than most of their competitors. Seems to me this is a pretty accurate statement of where Mazda products are in the market.

    GM - "We build the best cars in the world" - generally true? SERIOUSLY? REALLY? Perhaps where they want to be. Not EVEN close to where they actually are.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    In case you were thinking GM was getting a clue - It's Chevrolet - not Chevy!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    This is classic

    “Every time someone uses ‘Chevy’ rather than Chevrolet,” the note said, the employee is expected to put a quarter in the can."

    Gotta pay back the loans somehow right? :P
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot, shovelling all that snow was the best exercise I had all year! I'll get a snowblower when I'm 75! By the way, my snow shovel was also made in the USA!
    Wow, I didn't know Ariens built a snowblower that could withstand a direct hit by a 50 megaton nuclear warhead.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited June 2010
    Funny thing is my co-worker has a 2004 Honda Accord EX and he's been making overtures about a new Buick LaCrosse. My wife has the old generation LaCrosse and has yet to experience any problems. I don't think he'll be too disappointed with the LaCrosse if he's used to a Honda. My Buicks were extremely reliable.

    The A8 is about the only Audi I'd consider as the rest of their lineup is too small. Still, the maintenance and repair costs of a Teutonic tank greatly frighten me. I'd much rather stay with my Cadillacs which have been super-reliable. I'm on my 5th Cadillac and still have my 1989 Brougham. I really have no need to look elsewhere.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited June 2010
    Hyundai and Ford seem to me to be the only companies really TRYING to earn new business currently.

    I think you can throw in Audi/VW into that mix with the great new TDI drivetrains and vehicles (if only diesel didn't cost as much as Premium!)

    No I can't, I intentionally left them out. The only thing Audi is improving lately is its own profit margin with the surging prices on its cars. As for VW, they are warming over everything they supposedly redesign, and have been for a few years. The TDI is the only thing they are doing that is different, and they have owned the tiny tiny diesel market for years and years now. So that's not new, although their urea-free TDI is worth noting.

    For my next car I will be giving Honda a nod just because of the hybrids (I will be looking for a commuter that's very frugal on gas), but if that doesn't pan out I will likely be buying my first new Ford ever. Everything they are doing now is impressive, including the decision to dump the ridiculous Mercury division.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,058
    but if that doesn't pan out I will likely be buying my first new Ford ever. Everything they are doing now is impressive, including the decision to dump the ridiculous Mercury division.

    I drove and rode in a new Fiesta at a test drive event Ford put on at the Ford Nationals in Carlisle PA last weekend. Seemed like a nice little car. Not something that I personally would go for, but it looks like they're putting some serious effort into it. I was also impressed that I could fit fairly comfortably up front! Granted, you couldn't get anything bigger than a case of beer in the seat behind me, but many little cars don't even get the front seat right, let alone the back.

    The only thing I really didn't like about the car was the steering. I guess these things have electric steering? It just seemed like it had a dead spot in the center, sort of like the bumper cars at an amusement park.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    Oh well. I guess it was ok for GM to fail then. Be forewarned that they have a good chance of repeating.

    Good chance? How about 100% certain and INEVITABLE that GM will fail again?

    A lot of smart people over the years have repeated the line "History will repeat itself unless we learn from it." It seems to be a truism that I believe in.

    I think Chrysler proved it with the fact that they are on their SECOND bailout within many people's same lifetime here. Since Chrysler failed, and then inevitably failed again, those who predicted failure were proven right.

    Will history repeat itself with GM? Undoubtedly the answer is yes. History repeats itself since it's clear we learned nothing from Chrysler's multiple failures and bailouts the first time around.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    edited June 2010
    They drive nice, but as they age they have their share of problems just as other brands I've owned

    Have you ever had to tow any of your Hondas? Because there's problems (like JD Powers problems like brake dust???? :sick:) , and then, there's real problems (like CR will report on engine failures) that would cause one to have to tow their vehicle or spend lots of money.

    By the way, the only AC failure I've had in my lifetime that wasn't paid for by the manufacturer (including all my parents' vehicles) is the one sole Dodge we've all owned, which happened to be my mistake towards the end of the 20th Century.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121
    I have been reading a lot of criticism about modern power steering on the Cobalt and on the Toyota Corolla. I drove a Cobalt for a weekend over a year ago, and now I have been driving a 2010 Cobalt for the past month. I think there are more things going on here than just electric power. I hope I can put in some time and write something lengthy about this later, but these are some thoughts:

    1. The main source of the changes are due to fuel economy.

    2. Due to harder tires that remain very flat, I think there has been a substantial reduction in caster.

    3. A reduction in caster reduces steering effort overall, but also reduces the tendency for a car to "straighten out".

    4. The hard rubber also contributes to this because the tires probably side-slip more.

    5. I found an empty road and while rolling, I turned off the ignition and tried the steering. It was not very heavy.

    6. On front drive cars, you still want to have power steering because it reduces torque steer.

    "That's all folks." Next time I post something on this subject, it will be longer, duller, more technical, and will help you get to sleep.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    edited June 2010
    You forget that Audi was the first to offer direction injection in a turbocharged motor back in 2005 with their '06 models. FSI was revolutionary for the time. Better power and fuel economy over everyone else out there. Others took years to catch up to Audi's engineering example.

    You also forget that they have the best state of the art dual clutch auto-manual transmission out there since 2005 with the new '06 models. Honda doesn't have one yet. Mitsubishi's got one for their Evolution. I think Porsche just released one although they probably had Audi/VW's help developing it.

    Even BMW I think is just starting to come to their senses in developing a useable dual clutch system.

    Honda should be making 300 HP V6's that get 30 MPG right now. They are falliing a bit short. However, back in 2003 they were a peerless leader in V6 drivetrains.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    edited June 2010
    General Motors proposes leaving Chevy nickname in the dust

    Bye-bye, indeed, Miss American Pie. If General Motors has its way, you won't be driving your Chevy to the levee ever again.

    On Tuesday, GM sent a memo to Chevrolet employees at its headquarters, promoting the importance of "consistency" for the brand, which was the nation's best-selling line of cars and trucks for more than half a century after World War II.

    And one way to present a consistent brand message, the memo suggested, is to stop saying, "Chevy," though the word is one of the world's best-known, longest-lived product nicknames.

    From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100610/AUTO01/6100449/1148/auto01/GM-proposes-leavi- - ng-Chevy-nickname-in-the-dust#ixzz0qT60RMtN
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,058
    So I wonder if that means they're going to have to re-dub that line from "Chico and the Man" where Freddy Prinze says "It ain't easy trying to sell a Stoodiebaker in Chebby neighborhood!"
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    General Motors proposes leaving Chevy nickname in the dust

    That's it, GM, keep focusing on the right priorities.

    Personally I'd rather seem them dump the GM name altogether.
  • greatlakesjrgreatlakesjr Member Posts: 109

    I own two and I'm not really. They drive nice, but as they age they have their share of problems just as other brands I've owned. In fact, you seldom hear of AC problems these days except Honda. I think they are overpriced now that I've had them for awhile and the blogs seem to indicate a greater number of problems with more recent models which gives me further pause in buying another one.

    I agree that Hyundai has made some impressive gains, but I think Korean govt money has been helping them a lot, plus Korea is extremely protective against import competition giving Hyundai another boost. If you don't like GM because of govt money, then Hyundai really doesn't seem any different to me.


    I have a ’98 Accord with 182K miles (purchased in ’03 w/72K). It hasn’t been perfect and I’ve put more money into it than I expected but really expensive things like AC (still ice cold) and the tranny have been fine. Still solid, drives like a gem and gets 30+ MPG. It’s going to my daughter and my new ride is a 2010 Hyundai Sonata. Beautiful ride and I got it for $2,000-3,000 less than a Malibu which I considered. If the Korean gov’t helped get me that discount, good for them. The American government sure didn’t help get the price of the Malibu down to where I would have given it more attention.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, my Dad had a 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne two-door sedan and the radio buttons had the word "CHEVY" spelled out on them. Heck didn't they once call the Nova the Chevy II? There was a budget muscle car version of the 1972 Chevelle called the Heavy Chevy.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,539
    Heck, "Chevy" is mentioned about a billion times on Chevrolet's own website. Then you get the Chevy II, Chevy Van, Heavy Chevy, and I think the brand is officially called "Chevy" in some markets.

    GM's marketing and PR people are as clueless as ever, talk about surplus overhead.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    GM's marketing and PR people are as clueless as ever, talk about surplus overhead.

    That's no lie!
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Just read on Autoblog.com that the "CHEVY" is BACK. New memo out to O.K. CHEVY!!! but they will still use "Chevrolet" in their advertising!!!!!
  • ajvdhajvdh Member Posts: 223
    You also forget that they have the best state of the art dual clutch auto-manual transmission out there since 2005 with the new '06 models. Honda doesn't have one yet. Mitsubishi's got one for their Evolution. I think Porsche just released one although they probably had Audi/VW's help developing it.

    Actually, while the idea predates WWII, Porsche developed the first practical unit for their 956 race cars in the '80s. Audi sourced if from Porsche back in their rally days. Also, the first production car was a VW, not an Audi (yeah, same company as Audi). Porsche currently offers it as an option in several cars.

    Honda sells one, but only for motorcycles.

    Even BMW I think is just starting to come to their senses in developing a useable dual clutch system.

    It's been an option in the M3 for a couple of years now.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It can but GM's go on fire by a windshield wiper reservoir heater! Don't even need a match! :surprise:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Heck, My Denali A/C failed under 4 years!! Professional Grade.

    Crap! :lemon:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Can't dump GM...already dumped itself. As for the name, Garbage Motors is perfectly fine with me. You get what the inept management sows.

    May the Best Car Win. Hyundai.

    Regards,
    OW
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    It's been an option in the M3 for a couple of years now.

    I know, but I mentioned useable and workable dual clutch. The M3's system wasn't user friendly and "quality-comparable" until maybe just this year I've read of improvements.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Based on a few rentals and test drives, it seems like a few of the all new GM designs have some potential like LaCrosse, Traverse, Equinox. However, I've got to be honest that I'd wait a year or two before jumping in based on GM past history and there are a few rough edges compared to similar Ford products I think. Some of the new leaders at GM may actually turn it around, but the UAW is always in the wings waiting to ruin the gains. They are already jawboning they want more.

    The Equinox is a bit interesting. Although the reviewers compare it to CRV and the like, its dimensions are actually more like the Ford Edge and it seems significantly less expensive. The Edge seems a little pricey, but maybe that is to allow for incentives?

    I'm guessing Hyundai will be raising prices down the road now that are are getting more recognized and accepted, so if there is a model you like you may want to jump in soon.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    I wonder if we can still say Caddy instead of Cadillac?
    And the next thing you know: Coca-Cola will discourage people from saying Coke. :P
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Why wouldn't that surprise me?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    link title

    The politicians asked GM to stop destroying documents that could provide insight into investigations focused on GM's controversial commercial touting its repayment of $6.7 billion in federal loans, and other moves.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Yes it doesn't surprise me either. Our government is bought and paid for by these corporations. One hand feeds the other. Oh yeah, the government talks tough; great newsclips for the evening news for politicians looking to get popular support to get reelected. I'll believe the government is getting tough (with large corporations)when they start arresting these executives, and seizing their personal property.

    If you want to watch another outrage and travesty, just keep following the BP oil spill story. BP will never use ALL their assets to pay for the costs of that ongoing spill. Before they are forced to pay large amounts of money to those affected, you'll see BP transfer assets to a different division, be broken-up and sold, or declare some sort of bankruptcy. And our government will be "outraged" ;) ; despit the fact that THEY make the very rules that BP and other corporations play by!
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    "CADILLAC SRX SALES PROMPT FUTURE PRODUCTION BUMP"

    GM currently produces the SRX at the Ramos Arizpe plant, which is located in the Mexican state of Coahuila. GM says that in the near future the SRX will also begin to be exported from the Mexican plant to European markets for the first time.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Werent the first production cars Porsche with Tiptronic?

    I've read that Ford is making a DSG of thier own with the new Fiesta.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The politicians asked GM to stop destroying documents that could provide insight into investigations focused on GM's controversial commercial touting its repayment of $6.7 billion in federal loans, and other moves.

    Why dwell on all this negativity? After all, they DO make the best cars in the world! ;) :mad:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Werent the first production cars Porsche with Tiptronic?

    Tiptronic is NOT DSG. Tiptronic was the auto-manual transmission that was innovative in the '90's but pretty common today - an auto with a manual shift mode. I know when I bought an Audi in 1998, it was available, and VW also offered it in the Passat at that time.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    Best way to put it is this.

    Tiptronic's are auto-manuals, mainly good for aesthetic reasons. They really don't offer a benefit other than enhanced control.

    DSG's or (S-tronics) are manual-autos, mainly good for enthusiastic reasons. They enhance performance, and can enhance economy too.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "......Good chance? How about 100% certain and INEVITABLE that GM will fail again?"

    How can you be 100% sure???

    "..... I think Chrysler proved it with the fact that they are on their SECOND bailout within many people's same lifetime here."

    Again, ignore the fact that while yes, their products lacked in quality, their REAL doing in this time around was precipitated by the Germans (Daimler)

    Death to Dr. Z
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    i suppose you aren't counting diesels.
    there were direct-injection VW TDIs for years before Audi's 2006 models.

    also, i recently decontented all the GM suspension parts out of my 2005 GTO, and recontented with aftermarket parts. WHAT AN IMPROVEMENT!
  • ajvdhajvdh Member Posts: 223
    I think you're thinking about SMG, which was on the previous gen (E46 M3). The current M3 and Z4 both offer a dual-clutch box as an option.

    And yes, the Fiesta also will come with an optional dual-clutch box, but oddly enough it will be automatic only (i.e. no paddle shifter option, at least at first).
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I think you're thinking about SMG, which was on the previous gen (E46 M3). The current M3 and Z4 both offer a dual-clutch box as an option.

    AFAIR SMG on the BMW's is significantly less sophisticated than DSG isn't it? My friend gave me a ride in his SMG BMW about 6 years ago and I was unimpressed on how jerky it was.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    Where those aftermarket parts "made in the USA?" that you are happy with?

    I meant first turbocharged direct injected motor that doesn't include diesel.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    I think you're thinking about SMG, which was on the previous gen (E46 M3). The current M3 and Z4 both offer a dual-clutch box as an option.

    That's what I meant, and the current M3 and Z4 both came out what, within the last 12 months? Fairly recently.

    Dual Clutch was basically perfected in 2005 by Audi/VW. That's 5 years ago.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Absolutely! The only way to get adequate performance is to CHANGE ALL OF THE GM STOCK PARTS. The additional enhancement is you change them BEFORE they fail so the car becomes more reliable.

    Or, just buy any other brand, besides Chrysler.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It is what it is. No wonder. So who thinks the trend going forward will be a V-shaped recovery?

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Remember, PROFITS are the metric, not market share.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    edited June 2010
    Absolutely! The only way to get adequate performance is to CHANGE ALL OF THE GM STOCK PARTS. The additional enhancement is you change them BEFORE they fail so the car becomes more reliable.
    Or, just buy any other brand, besides Chrysler.


    I drive 2 GM vehicles and there are 5 in my immediate family. All
    are and have been very reliable, including a 2000 Chevy Cavalier with
    180,000 miles. I consider them great values for the transaction
    price.

    I must also say that I am very glad I own a Chevy pick-up truck and
    not one of these:

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_tacoma.html

    I think the term "Rust Bucket" applies. I don't understand how these
    trucks supposedly have high resale values. Before I buy a vehicle I
    do some research, instead of just accepting the idea that if it is an
    "Asian brand" it is a better vehicle. What it will be is a more expensive
    vehicle, not necessarily better and possibly worse.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I drive 2 GM vehicles and there are 5 in my immediate family. All
    are and have been very reliable, including a 2000 Chevy Cavalier with
    180,000 miles. I consider them great values for the transaction
    price.


    Hey Greg - do any of you also drive other makes, especially any foreign makes?

    The reason I ask - if I were raised in a GM family or Ford family, and all I ever knew were those vehicles, I would probably be loyal to that brand.

    However, if I had a variety of vehicles, then I could see how they vary. I could get a real perspective on what brand A does better than brand B, etc.

    So I have no disagreement that you may have a Cavalier that has been very reliable. But of course there is more than reliability involved. Just sayin'.
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