GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    You should rent a car there...drive flat out all of the time, including blind corners and crowded urban areas.

    Smart is a toy for over-monied look at me types here, but in Euro cities is a viable car and seems to be a relative success. Of course, they get a diesel too.

    And their GM products are generally nicer too...especially true in the past.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    We did not rent a car. I originally wasn't crazy about going, as I saw this trip as keeping me from getting a new Malibu for a family car ;) . But we had a good time.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    I guess I can understand that...on my last trip the rental car was the most expensive single bill on the trip, costing even more than the flight. But for 9 days in a new 7 series, it was worth it :shades:
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'm a bit confused I guess about all these magazine articles and reviews making such a big deal about some of the new GM products being Opel derived. I seem to recall Opel and Vauxhaul being considered just average brands over in Europe? I always felt Europeans generally preferred Ford and VW in that price range.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Thanks for the tips guys, I'm going for a little over a week. I'm supposed to be meeting a Fiat Punto as a partner for our daily trekking to winery's, hill towns and cathedrals but I really hope I get a surprise upgrade to a new Focus or Fiesta instead. :shades:
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Book says GM had clueless 'culture of losing'
    David Barkholz
    Automotive News -- September 20, 2010 - 12:01 am ET

    Steven Rattner, former chief of the Obama auto task force, said General Motors' corporate culture was dysfunctional when he arrived last year.

    "I was completely unprepared for what I saw once I got inside of General Motors," Rattner, 58, said in an interview with Automotive News last week.

    "I certainly had read about GM. I assumed there was some level of journalistic hype. And, in fact, it was worse than anything I had imagined."

    In Rattner's new book, Overhaul: An Insider's Account of the Obama Administration's Emergency Rescue of the Auto Industry, Obama auto task force member Harry Wilson summed up GM simply: "A culture of losing."

    The good news is that now, after nearly a year under outsider CEOs Ed Whitacre and Dan Akerson, GM is making significant progress, Rattner said.

    Whitacre "sent the message that this is no longer a bureaucratic battleship churning its way through the waters. It has to become more lean and mean."

    Rattner said Akerson, who took over as CEO on Sept. 1, "is completely in Whitacre's mold and mentality."

    In his book Rattner, a 26-year veteran of Wall Street, relates example after example of an insular, bureaucratic organization that avoided decisions while the company deteriorated.

    For instance, Rattner said former CEO Rick Wagoner in 2008 refused to prepare for bankruptcy even though GM was desperately short of cash. The delays ended up costing taxpayers "a lot of money" when GM did file for bankruptcy, Rattner said.

    Rattner, who led the task force from February 2009 until he resigned that July, is especially critical of GM's finance department.

    "It was stunning to walk in there and realize that the company needed massively more cash to operate than the size of company would suggest because they didn't know where the cash was," Rattner said last week. "That they couldn't tell us on any given day within $500 million how much cash the company had. That's an amazing thing."

    Even today, 14 months out of bankruptcy, GM lists financial reporting as a risk factor in its recent registration for an initial public offering. Rattner said last week that it may take another year or so to work out all those bugs.

    He said insularity, in which GM lifers dominated management ranks, combined with arrogance to contribute to GM's toxic culture.

    "Until this latest round of changes, GM had an incredibly small number of people who had not been there their entire careers," Rattner said. "It was a culture of meeting after meeting and process."

    In his book, Rattner writes that then-CEO Fritz Henderson lost points with the board for being "doggedly loyal to GM people and ways. Ray Young was still CFO. [Fritz's] decision to bring back Bob Lutz left many on the board scratching their heads. And when Kay Barclay, the head of human resources, finally resigned, Fritz proposed a GM manufacturing executive to take her post."

    Rattner said last week that GM's culture was outwardly friendly and collegial -- "so much that nobody ever wanted to break the glass and say this is wrong."

    But now, after nearly a year under Whitacre and Akerson, GM's culture is changing, Rattner said. He helped recruit both Whitacre and Akerson to the post-bankruptcy board.

    "Whitacre changed a lot of people," Rattner said. "He changed some of the jobs twice when he wasn't happy with whom he had. He promoted and empowered some insiders who brought in outsiders."

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100920/OEM02/309209964/1423- #ixzz1050CYQEI
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    He said insularity, in which GM lifers dominated management ranks, combined with arrogance to contribute to GM's toxic culture.

    That's been obvious to me for the past 30 years I've been following the auto industry. Just a few years ago I read a quote from Bob Lutz, "We've been number 1 for the past 75 years, I see no reason why we won't be number 1 for the next 75", when he was asked about GM's standing as the worlds biggest automaker. What the heck was he smoking. Ilaughed out loud when I read that. IIRC it was in Business Week or Fortune, or a similar business rag back in '07 or so.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Until that culture completely washes out, and now you can see it's a long way from the end, GM will be a second rate auto company.

    It ain't fixed until it executes effectively at all levels of operations - design, manufacturing, and workforce. Not the GM story at the moment.

    Regards,
    OW
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500

    China's SAIC may invest in GM's share sale, chairman says
    1:36 am U.S. ET, Sept. 21

    SAIC Motor Corp. said it may invest in the initial public offering of partner General Motors Co., cementing ties between the biggest U.S. and Chinese automakers. China's largest carmaker will consider investing in GM if “conditions are favorable,” Chairman Hu Maoyuan said. The company hasn't yet made a decision whether to make the investment and is waiting for the details of the share sale, he added. Read More »

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/#ixzz10B05cY2x
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Even the Chinese are reluctant!

    They'll bite, though. It's meant to be.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    I was actually a bit surprised that the Chinese did not
    even attempt to purchase a controlling interest in GM
    when the total market cap was in the $2B range...
    - Ray
    What's a couple billion here & there...?
    2022 X3 M40i
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    Maybe helping with 90th anniversary events for the Chinese Communist Party will grow some market share:

    image
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited September 2010
    Yes, and the share price of the IPO will prove the "pay back" is long in the making.

    $133/share

    This tells me that GM will no doubt be a takeover candidate by an off-shore behemoth.

    Better set up everything feng-shui at the Ivory Towers in Detroit! Wouldn't want to put off the future owners!

    Think ahead, People!

    Regards,
    OW
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    With every passing day that I see things like your picture, I realize our government and leaders in general are exponentially increasing the screwed-up-factor of the world. Maybe we can blame Richard Nixon for opening contact with China? Or maybe it was Reagan setting in motion the collapse of Communism.

    We can write pages and pages on how this whole GM bailout, and their business practices are so counter to everything I ever learned 30-40 years ago, that this country stood for. There is a total lack of morals and ethics in our leaders, and an understanding of how government, business, and religion should stay separated.

    Anyway - let's see if in 10 years the Chinese don't own most of GM, have any of their technology they want, and Detroit has even more farmland then they now plan on. Has "The Rise and Fall of the American Empire" title been used yet?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Most Americans’ lives have grown worse over the past three decades: today, average American male workers earn less than they did in 1979 in inflation-adjusted dollars, while the top 400 richest Americans own more than the bottom 150 million Americans, a wealth gap only found in tinpot Third World kleptocracies, and not seen here since 1928.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    At this rate it's going to be more like The Rise and Fall of Western Civilization. Opening China in the manner of the neocon cabal will go down as one of the worst mistakes in history.

    The GM debacle is just a symptom of the disease, a mere attendee to the madness.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    edited September 2010
    Well as you mention many times about your fellow citizens in the Philly area, there are a lot of losers out there, all a product of our Nanny-state government. So yeah I can see where 1/2 of our population is lazy, immoral, unethical, poor work-attitude, poorly educated ... and combine this with the improvement in the rest of the world, and yes I can understand the wealth shift.

    Remember that in 1979, our current competitors were subsistence economies in China, India, and eastern Europe. There was no such thing as Hyundai and Kia, and Japanese cars were still strange. So the rest of the world caught up to the U.S.a nd in some cases surpassed us. So our consumers gave for years their money to the $3/hr worker overseas rather than the $15/hr Detroit union guy, and Detroit and the unions fate was sealed if they stayed on course.

    Then that goes on for 20 years and lo-and-behold the wonder-boy executives in Detroit are surprised when a recession hits (they do periodically) and the companies are bankrupt. 20 years of deterioration and they don't see (or at least admit) they see their demise! Fools! Utimate fools! Or ultimate liars! But the unions and execs were smart right. They made as much as they could for as long as they could, and then stuck the government with the bill! So maybe they were smart? GM's executives were smart not to sell off GM assets to keep out of bankruptcy. It was brilliant of them to keep GM's size up, so then they become "too big tio fail"; at least that's the phoney story they told; and thereofre the "too big to fail" story keeps the cancer of GM still going. Still siphoning $ from the U.S. Treasury to pay for all the union wages, retirees, the new GM multi-million $ execs., and the GM lobbyists who will funnel $ back to the politicians to get reelected.

    Buy Ford! And hope a new American car company forms.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    As if the copycars and pirated IP material aren't enough...free trade, globalization, racing to the bottom, horray!
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    So yeah I can see where 1/2 of our population is lazy, immoral, unethical, poor work-attitude, poorly educated ...
    Actually, it's really only the last factor that is responsible for the lack of qualified workers. We spent two decades slowly gutting education in the U.S. and well, we're faced with an entire generation of woefully under-trained. Now, to be sure, they are as smart as they ever were. Just without good education, well, what could have been a person with a Masters in engineering or biology, you get a guy who maybe has a BS. And that just doesn't compete in the global economy any more.

    We've become complacent and assume that we are smarter and better. But that's only going to remain true if you make your kids smarter and better. I really fear what's going to happen in the next 10-20 years as the older generation dies off and there's literally nobody to replace them as we face a 20-30 year "DUH Generation" in charge.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What are you trying to say? Are you saying these guys aren't capable?

    image
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Who are they?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Who are they?

    Exactly. I don't know which is worse. The cast of Jersey Shore or those that watch it:(
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Ah, Leno loves to make fun of them.........seriously mtv? MTV???????????

    They've had nothing but (censored) on the air for twenty years or so.

    Back to the topic?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Back in the 1960s it took 46 hours per week of mid-range income to provide for a family of four. Today, it takes over 90 hours of income-producing labor to provide for a middle income family of four. This means both parents work outside the home, and at least one or both work overtime.

    Ever hear of an economic depression? Hard working people have been losing their jobs all over the country. Some people lost all of their money when the market crashed; hard working people that were in the middle class suddenly plummeted into poverty. These people did nothing wrong, and yet are suddenly unable to pay their mortgages or rent, their car payments, their loans, or their credit card bills. They weren't busy hanging out with thugs, they weren't doing drugs, and they made all the right choices, and they still got screwed over.

    You are correct, people need to make the most of what is given to them, and they need to to take responsibility to strive to greater things in this world. But you have to take into account all the extenuating circumstances that exist in this world. Do not assume that because a person is poor that they are lazy, drug-addicted low lifes.

    Oh, and if the middle class disappears, then we are in BIG trouble. That's the problem in every third-world country; no middle class or a very small one. All the wealth is in the hands of a few. That is what gives rise to anarchy, rebellion, militancy, revolution, etc.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    The fact that you bring in garbage from MTV to make a point, really shows your loyalty to GM.

    Has nothing to do with cars. And blah blah blah.

    Wanna talk about cars now???????
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Sheesh! It was a joke! Take it easy! :surprise:
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    So is GM and MTV!

    Wanna talk cars now?
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    This means both parents work outside the home, and at least one or both work overtime.

    Well, not exactly. What happens is that that number also is heavily skewed by the number of people living in urban areas where the costs are several orders higher. If you move out to the country, costs are extremely reasonable. But it means for a long commute. Thankfully, tele-commuting or mass transit can be an option now. Or just working out of your own home.

    Consider that you can pay $400,000 for a cheap house in Los Angeles and *maybe* it's not in a gang-infested part of town. Yet move 30 miles farther away and you can get the same home for half as much money. Since (actual) housing costs are about half of take-home pay for many families That 90 hours drops to a 60 hours or so range just by having a less expensive home. Still awful, but far more reasonable.

    The "middle class" after WWII really was a generation of engineers, business degrees, and so on - educated people with large numbers of first and post-graduate degrees. Now that that is gone, well, it also is disappearing I wonder how long it will take our leaders to realize that gutting education is also killing the middle class.

    note - I think they know it, to be honest, and that's their plan. A middle class is dangerous to those in power and their long-term goals. What you want is a small upper class that you can get power from and/or minimize as need be on specific issues(too few to make a numbers difference) and then throw smoke and mirrors at the too dumb to realize it masses. It's hell for the population and country in general(Mexico is a perfect example of this ideology in action), but it's fantastic for those in power.

    The real issue, though, is that the system only works if you close yourself off like Mexico largely has. The U.S. is too spread out and too global at this point to deal with such a middle-class vacuum now that players like China are in the mix and more than willing to take jobs, industry, research, and even education away from us. Without the Middle class being strong, there's literally no safety margin to fall back upon, and so it's terribly easy for other large predators to rip out pieces or your economy. Eventually you're left with a skeleton.(see England's auto industry for an example of 100 years of being nibbled to death by outsiders)
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    The passenger-side panel design looks too much like a Honda.
    Ugly I.P Center.
    Uninspired dash

    It does look like of high quality though. Note the zero-glare panel under the windshield, and the stitches above the instument panel.

    http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/09/spy-photos-2012-chevy-malibu-in- terior-caught.html
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Considering that the auto companies like to hire from the same half dozen design schools, and they all teach almost identical philosophies to their students, it should be no shock that the cars end up looking nearly the same.

    Cookie-cutter design schools churning out cookie-cutter students that all have the same cookie-cutter designs.

    The song "little boxes" comes to mind. ;)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'm not a fan of that dual bug eye instrument pod look. They do something like that on Asian models too like the Toyota Highlander. A concern I have about that Malibu dash is that all those angles and resulting pieces of plastic may mean a greater likelihood of squeaks and rattles as the car breaks in.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    GM won't comment on a possible purchase of shares by SAIC.

    Silence is approval. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Silence is approval

    You may be right, everything is global anyway. The interesting thing to me is all of the different break even numbers being thrown around. I've heard $60 something per share, then $80 something and now what, $133? Either everyone is talking a different profit level like net, gross, marginal (incremental) etc, or there is an awful lot of speculation, ignorance, or confusion. Maybe they all want the latter?

    The best thing going for GM is probably all of the Asian recalls lately. Seems like Asian vehicles are getting a little worse, some of D3 a little better - might be pretty similar to each other in a few years. I guess that would be a good thing for the consumer and competition. Toyota seems to have caught the old GM-itis and Honda sometimes sounds like it is beginning to come down with it too - arrogance and excessive cost cutting degrading the product.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Too Big To Fail, perhaps? I agree with your assessment. Toyota will probably recover from their defects but the arrogance is there. Honda isn't perfect either. Looking at Acura, their designs are not innovative and sales have suffered on the TL.

    Let me know when GM looses it's arrogance.

    Regards,
    OW
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Looks like the GM management UAW hate fest is right back where it started from. Didn't take long! I guess I understand the UAW voting against givebacks in Indianapolis because the government involved BK gave the union a nice fall back situation and transfer rights (GM may never see those wage concessions the government tried to hype). But the well known, not the best reputation Lordstown plant is apparently at it again already (I suppose the govt may have made GM keep that place, but putting the key Cruze product in their is dumb!). Then again, Ford appears to be keeping the militant Kansas City facility. Anyway, I guess GM was shipping some new Cruze with problems off the assembly line to an outside shop. Even though its a new introduction with importance to GM's future and the workers are very busy ramping the plant and product up, the UAW wanted its overtime. It sounds like the UAW is putting out some rather hateful and spiteful anti-company postings to its membership. Nice new beginning between these "partners"! This should help enhance the new equity results.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It sounds like the UAW is putting out some rather hateful and spiteful anti-company postings to its membership. Nice new beginning between these "partners"! This should help enhance the new equity results.

    Here's to continued low quality product born from spiteful bedfellows!

    Go USA!

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    You can be sure that if the UAW smells any profits approaching, they will open their wallets and scream for some like baby birds in the nest!
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    edited October 2010
    1- GM: ---------------- 1,638,544 up 6%
    2- Ford: --------------- 1,439,213 up 21%
    3- Toyota: ------------ 1,311,316 up 2%
    4- Honda: ------------ 912,436 up 4%
    5- Chrysler: --------- 820,220 up 15%
    6- Nissan: ------------ 673,701 up 16%
    7- Hyundai: ---------- 410,047 up 20%
    8- Kia:------------------ 268,024 up 12%
    9- Volkswagen: ----- 192,690 up 21%
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Not too hot of a percentage gain for GM.

    Chrysler is the surprise and the one to watch. Maybe Ford should have pushed trucks and SUVs more?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited October 2010
    Sonata passes Malibu by December...#6 top seller last month.

    (Sept 2010, %gain over 9/2009, YTD 2010)

    Hyundai Sonata 20,639 161.3% 149,123

    Chevrolet Malibu 16,289 55.4% 163,246

    Get used to it. :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Not too hot of a percentage gain for GM.

    Wow, I can hardly wait for that IPO! What a great investment us taxpayers made!
    :mad:
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I wonder if some of that Chrysler stuff is because they are becoming a fleet queen?

    I think both Ford and GM have gotten a bit aggressive with pricing which may be part of it?
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Well,you wonder correctly !! :P
    They are the decorated lot and rental queens and quite experienced at that !! :shades:
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Unfortunately this all too true in many major corporations at the top ranks, while everyone else gets a small severance check and a security escort to the parking lot.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Hey he paid alot of money to get that piece of paper that says he's smart. I dont agree with that but, thats Gov Motors for ya.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    The Buick compact is confirmed for fall 2011, and will be based on the Cruze.
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