Some are pricing replacing with a truly repaired transmission through independent shops set up in a way that shouldn't break down as soon.
Then there's the no help on VCM--it's performing as designed is the retort.
But, there IS no fix. And it is working as designed.
Wait... WHAT?
Honda designs its own automatic transmissions. Most of the rest of the world actually buys theirs from GM, Ford, or one of their subsidiaries and re-brands the unit. Automatics are something that they put in taxis and rental vehicles in their country and are almost exclusively a North American Market phenomenon. (The numbers of manual vs automatic are almost exactly reversed worldwide vs the U.S. )
The transmission has no defect. It is operating perfectly fine. There is no way to "upgrade" or fix it or set it up so that it won't fail again.
Why? Because the transmission is built for the 4 cylinder Japanese model, where it works fine. Instead of designing a whole new transmission for the V6 models, which represent 100% in the U.S., they put the 4 cylinder transmission in it as well. In Japan, due to their lower average body weight, smaller families, lower average speeds, and less cargo being hauled around, it all works fine. In the U.S., it simply can't handle the extra stress and dies easily. (or the torque converter/clutch pack does, technically)
We weigh more. We drive faster. We accelerate quicker. We simply put, drive our cars much harder and for more miles than most of the rest of the world. My guess is that Honda took the normal margin/factor of safety in the engineering design and thought that they could get away with lowering it a little bit.
If it worked, they would save themselves millions in parts and secondary costs as well as re-tooling. It obviously did not.
But, then again, this seems to only affect Odysseys. The rest of Hondas are more or less fine. Too bad the 4 cylinder or manual Odysseys aren't available in the U.S. or Canada.
I didn't have to own any non-GM, non-Chrysler, and non-Ford models to come to my conclusion. I just watched others' experiences. First of all, most non-GM, non-Chrysler, and non-Ford models, outside of some expensive European marques, are too dang ugly IMO, so I've already ruled them out on styling alone.
From what I've seen, those glorious Asian cars are plug average if anything - no better or worse than domestic makes.
High-end European cars are fine for those with a lot of disposable income and a high tolerance for their tempermentality. My brother in law has a lot of trouble with his Mercedes S430, but it was built during a low-quality point for M-B.
VW? Never again! I had an ex-girlfriend with a new VW Jetta that seemed to be broken every other Tuesday. If I didn't have metric tools, that car would've never ran. Parts were ridiculously expensive and customer service was very surly. The guy at the parts counter acted as if I slept with his wife and ran over his dog.
You don't think the Japanese government would bail out Toyota again and again if they got in trouble? Some countries realize the importance of maintaining a heavy industrial base.
It's when the same old negative stuff gets rehashed again...and again....and again
Solution!!!!
Have GM/Chrysler/Ford or the offending party provide a brand new replacement vehicle for the lemon they bought in the past. When one buys a lemon expecting to receive a vehicle, they are still waiting for that vehicle to be delivered. I'd pay not one cent for a lemon, so either provide the replacement vehicle, or return the money in full, and I'll stop whining and complaining.
Easy solution! If GM won't do it, why don't you step up and use your bank account to get rid of the posters on this forum!
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Why don't you post on the (fill in the foreign make) forum? I dislike Asian cars, and most German cars, for a number of reasons, but I don't post negative stuff on their forums. To do so speaks loudly about your "state of mind".
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well let's see. If we compare reliability ratings of 4 year old cars according to JD power, your Audi looks something like:
I give JD Power zero credibility as they are biased to those who pay their advertising dollars (GM and the like).
If you start quoting some CR numbers/colors, I'll believe it more, at least they don't take payments that are really just bribes and payoffs to get good reviews and call it "advertising."
Even so, there is a thing called quality that doesn't show up in reliability and dependability studies. Not saying reliability isn't important, it is, but also enjoying the vehicle and not having 100 rattles go off every second is important too.
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Oh, the one I dumped was just a 19" portable tv. The one thing that was interesting about it though, was that it had a digital display for the channel, and a touchpad, sort of like a calculator, instead of dials.
As for that 1972 console tv, well, Granddad broke it down and turned it into a coffee table around 1987. Sorry, I didn't know ya then, otherwise I would've talked him into letting you have it! :P
Shame about your ruling out imports based upon looks. My last Toyota had 390K on it when I sold it - and it's still running last I heard. My favorite European brand for years was Volvo, but the new ones are too much plastic for my liking (too much Ford in their DNA now).
But simply put, GM and Ford dream of the day that they could build a S class. There's a vast chasm between them and Mercedes in engineering skill and design. If money were no object, I'd get one. Of course, I live in reality, so... it's more basic stuff. For that, GM does very well and offers good value for the money. Though, I do loathe their automatics, even if they are the most reliable. If you can get a GM car with a manual transmission, do it.
I was waiting to see how long it would take for the 'quality and reliability aren't the same thing' argument to come up. Quality is only reliability if we're talking domestic brands, it seems, sadly. No balance whatsoever here.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
On Zeniths - they were above and beyond anything you could buy in their day.
My dad won a 25" Zenith console color TV (it actually replaced a black and white one!) in 1975 in a sales contest. He had that thing for better than 20 years. Close to 30. It took a couple of repairs over the years but it had a great picture for decades. Finally one repair guy told him he could fix it this time but that it was so old that parts were getting impossible and recommended that next time he replace the set.
He replaced it with an RCA - no, not a good old American RCA, but still a console! We just finished clearing out his house. The one thing no one would take was that TV. I was tempted. Had it been the old Zenith I'd have done it.
We also found a 50s Zenith table radio that needs to have the cord replaced but probably works and a 1939 one that indeed works. The fabric exterior is shot but it still works fine.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
If money were no object, I'd get one. Of course, I live in reality, so... it's more basic stuff. For that, GM does very well and offers good value for the money.
That's why I stay with GM. I recall seeing this sleek new Mercedes S600 AMG and thinking it would be an awesome car, but it's out of my financial boundaries. The Cadillac DTS Performance is the nicest car I can find within my means and it happens to be a GM car. I also believe Cadillacs, in general, are the most beautifully styled cars and that goes all the way back to when I was a very small child.
I've always been turned off by Japanese and Korean styling. Something about it looks strange and otherworldly; alien and unsettling.
I'm very balanced. I've often said that my domestic ownership experience would have been decent, pleasant, and perfectly acceptable if not for the:
1) 1,000 rattles before 65,000 miles 2) repair work required every 3 or 4 months 3) transmission at 60K 4) Head Gaskets at 45K 5) Air Conditioning at literally 3 years and 1 week old. 6) poor quality wiring, cables, battery terminals. 7) 4 required tow truck trip expenses 8) cost of repairs and parts
Otherwise, it was a decent driving experience when it actually ran. When being the keyword. The gas mileage could have been better, and the performance seemed to decline a bit with age (only kept it 65K miles so I guess that's old for a domestic). But it handled nicely for a cheap bucket of bolts, it was reasonably comfortable, and it was somewhat peppy for its time. The design was creative looks wise, inside and out.
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
>Instead of designing a whole new transmission for the V6 models, which represent 100% in the U.S., they put the 4 cylinder transmission in it as well.
Naaah. One of the perfect car companies like Tiyota and Honda wouldn't intentionally use a part that wasn't perfectly designed for the application at hand. Not once!!!
Wow, one thousand rattles. A/C dead at 3 yrs. and 1 mo. and dealer wouldn't do anything for you? I'm sorry you apparently had a deadbeat dealer and/or didn't know how to effectively contact GM for free work as I have with very little problem. 45K miles head gasket? That's gotta be a record. Remind me to never stand on a golf course next to you when it's lightning out.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well, maybe your thinking I was a former GM guy. I was a former Chrysler guy, and maybe that's why you find my "luck" out of the norm. Actually, my experience with a Dodge Neon was pretty normal, and I'd say on par for the course with all Neon owners nationwide. I would say I had an AVERAGE Neon reliability wise, and yes, it was a total disaster, some may have fared worse, some a bit better. Most Neon owners (the majority) dealt with failed leaking head gaskets by the time they got to 60K miles. It's an extremely common issue.
Since I had the pleasure of going to dealers to repair my car on a regular basis, and moved away to college during my ownership period, I got to know not 1, not 2, but 3 separate Dodge dealers, and none of them ever offerred any assistance above a "no cost battery replacement." I went to two different dodge dealerships in Sacramento, CA with no luck. I was forced to go to the Dodge dealer in San Luis Obispo, CA while in college, so I have at least 3 Dodge dealers I can give 0 stars out of 5 stars to as a rating!
So maybe all Dodge dealers were deadbeats. Maybe I should have made more of an effort to contact corporate Chrysler back in the day, but frankly, based on the reaction I got at 3 dealers, I'd say it would have been in vain.
Frankly, Chrysler has computers, they know how much money and time and replacement parts were placed into my vehicle, and I received no letter of apology to date!
But getting back to GM, I've read stories from posters here on Edmunds that seem to mirror more closely to my Chrysler experience than my Honda/Audi/Toyota experiences.
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I ask this in all sincerity: Did you expect the Neon ownership experience to be on par with your (much) later Audi? Surely the purchase prices were nowhere near the same.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
One was about exactly double the purchase price of the other. However, that's comparing 1994 prices to 2006.
You just keep making the big 3 look worse and worse with your arguments! LOL, but I know that wasn't your intention. :P :shades:
So, discounting heavy inflation which has occurrred in the 12 years (prior to my 2006 purchase 1994-2006) I'd say I'd of fairly expected half the car from the big 3. Is that asking too much? I got about 1% the car I have now. A nice lightly used 2-year old Civic could have been purchased for the same amount of money back in the mid-90's, and I'd of been able to sell it without massive depreciation.
A testament to the Big 3's value proposition when it comes to cars is their resale value. I believe one dealer made an offer of $800 for a 65,000 mile Neon 4-door Sport (fully loaded model) in about as great of condition as a Neon could be!
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Looks like Hyundai is quite a dependable company in comparison to GM (60% of GM sales IS Chevy). I suspected as much. :shades:
GMC is so low, I would beg to question it's relevance as a brand going forward. If Professional Grade means terrible dependability, it's mere existence becomes a thorn in GM's side.
Nice. I have something similar from the early 50s, a leather covered zillion-band Trans-Oceanic:
Sadly, it doesn't work. Powers up but nothing else happens.
When I was a kid I had a fetish for old radios and other primitive things, and would pick them up at yard sales when my mother was out antiquing. I had a couple dozen of them, most got sold off at a sale when I was in college, but I kept a few. In some ways (like GM, gotta pretend to be on topic) they represent America at its industrial apex.
A testament to the Big 3's value proposition when it comes to cars is their resale value
The Big 3 are not bad in resale value. Take a look of the KBB's 2011 resale value winner of each category:
2011 BEST RESALE VALUE: BY VEHICLE CATEGORY
SUBCOMPACT CAR: Honda Fit COMPACT UTILITY VEHICLE: Honda CR-V COMPACT CAR: MINI Cooper MID-SIZE UTILITY VEHICLE: Toyota FJ Cruiser MID-SIZE CAR: Honda Accord FULL-SIZE UTILITY VEHICLE: GMC Acadia FULL-SIZE CAR: Ford Taurus LUXURY UTILITY VEHICLE: BMW X5 NEAR-LUXURY CAR: Lexus IS HYBRID/ALT. ENERGY UTILITY VEHICLE: BMW X5 XDrive35d LUXURY CAR: Audi A5 MID-SIZE PICKUP: Toyota Tacoma SPORTS CAR: Subaru Impreza WRX FULL-SIZE PICKUP: Ford F-Series Super Duty HIGH-PERFORMANCE CAR: Ford Mustang GT VAN: Toyota Sienna HYBRID/ALT. ENERGY CAR: Volkswagen Golf TDI WAGON: Subaru Outback
The underlined models are among the top 20 selling models last year. Ford F series is the No. 1 seller, that should adds more weight to the Big 3 overall resale value.
PS, the resale value does not matter much to me. I basically buy new cars and keep them for like 20 years. The lower new car purchase prices actually work to my benefit.
I ask this in all sincerity: Did you expect the Neon ownership experience to be on par with your (much) later Audi? Surely the purchase prices were nowhere near the same.
Well, in his defense, IIRC, it was an early 1995 Neon he bought, and those were the worst of the worst. I've known people who have bought later Neons, and especially with the 2nd-gen (2000+) and those were much improved.
I've known people who have bought early first-gen Intrepids, Concordes, and LHS/New Yorkers, and for the most part, nobody has anything nice to say about them, unless you got a '96 or newer, or opted for the more basic models with the tried and true 3.3 V-6, which was simple, pushrod, designed by the guy resonsible for the slant six, and not torquey enough to hurt the transmission TOO much.
My 2000 Intrepid was a good car, but had I bought an earlier model, I might not be singing its praises. But, I also probably would have let it go by now, too!
I basically buy new cars and keep them for like 20 years. The lower new car purchase prices actually work to my benefit.
I haven't had a domestic car last 3 years without falling apart let alone 20. My 07 Expedition is fading fast at 85k in typical domestic car fashion, just like every single domestic I've had before. I don't know how much longer I'll be able to tolerate it. I'd just once like to have a vehicle last me 150k, hasn't happened yet.
This one is not much over $16,000 and comes with the best manual shifter in the bunch. Weighted and sighted just right. The engine is said ta be a bit gutless-revving up ta near redline is necessary to "just be able ta keep up with traffic."
Yeah, right. I think it would suit my pace, my pace is my pace. The dorks in the domestic pickups can shnip and schnop another time. They crack me up-always jealous of me in my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. I'd be mad if I was stuck in a big egg-beater like that too, though. Sheesh. If driving can't be fun why are we doin' it? :shades:
Sheesh, I've had two Cavaliers that went 129K and 112K with no money invested other than brakes and tires. I got rid of the one with 112K because the check engine light DIDN"T come on, which meant I couldn't pass emissions check in my stupid rural county. It would have been a $450 repair to replace the cluster. Not enough to keep me from buying a new Cobalt for $9,900 after my GM card rebate, which I'm very much enjoying now at 46K miles.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Concerning the reliability chart, if GMC is so low, I'd say trucks are what is pulling Chevrolet even down to its near-average on the chart. There is no true reason why a GMC product would be worse than a Chevrolet truck. Even so, Chevy beats Kia and Nissan, among others, on the chart. I wonder if anyone is talking about this over on the Nissan forums. I somehow doubt it.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Why do you continue to worry about what should be posted on other forums?
As soon as GM is not positioned as the best and the argument is as clear as sunlight, you judiciously ponder the balance on other forums.
Here is some balance that you will be happy that I post.
Kia and Hyundai are far from perfect and GM is much improved, beginning with the '08 Malibu and CTS. They still have some old junk to clean up and the new CUV twins and Lamdas seem to be a hit. The advertising continues to be as bad as it gets, although Kia are at the same level, afaic.
I just think Hyundai/Kia are far more hungry than GM and it shows as the improvements come faster than at GM.
No, I am not going yo the"other forums" to post that!
It all just reminds me of how selective TV news is. As you can tell, I believe in balance. Plus, unfortunately it's also all about perception, which can lag reality by eons. Why is one manufacturer getting beat up when others go scot-free? Just a common-sense question...I'd hope.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
If the 'Trep wasn't wrecked, do you think you'd still have it?
Most likely, unless the engine or transmission failed, but both were acting just fine when the car was totaled. If I still had it, it would have about 165,000 miles on it now (150K + the 15K I've put on the Buick).
There was a lady at work who had a 1994 Eagle Vision that she was always griping about, but it managed to make it to 160,000 miles. She gave it to her son, and I think he drove it for awhile, and then unloaded it for another car. It never needed an engine or transmission replacement, but had lots of problems with sensors, electrical, stalling, refusing to start and such, and it took the dealer forever to get it right.
My 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance is virtually like a brand new car:
How many miles do you have on it? 15k? I would expect it to look brand new. I guarantee my Expedition has a duty cycle that you'd never subject one of your cars to. Kids, 80lb lab, hauling what ever, towing a boat, camper, and utility trailers ETC along with mud and snow. I cracked the front facia on the Expe this winter busting through 3' plus snow drifts with my foot to the floor hoping I wasn't going to get stuck (was kind of fun until I heard a load thud and then I saw the 4" crack in the bumper when I got home). I generally put 20k+ a year on my vehicle. I haven't had a Ford or Chevy last 4 years w/o significant repairs with how I use them, much less 10-20.
The only vehicle I've had that went 4 years w/o a significant issue and withstood my abuse was an '01 Nissan Pathfinder. It was leased, so I turned it in after 4 years, but it was vault tight and very reliable over the 60k miles I put on it, it certainly never cost me a big repair bill (just an 02 sensor). My Suburban and Expedition haven't been 1/4 as good or well assembled. Though I will admit the newer Nissan's don't seem to be as well built as the pre Renault-Nissan built models.
Naaah. One of the perfect car companies like Tiyota and Honda wouldn't intentionally use a part that wasn't perfectly designed for the application at hand. Not once!!!
I asked for documentation or links and AFAIR it was just "common knowledge!". :P
I guess swearing off domestics now because of a 1995 Neon is like saying you wouldn't buy a new '64 1/2 Mustang because your '48 Ford Business Coupe was lousy.
We'd all be rolling our eyes at the guy who said that, right?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Yeah, but some of us have long memories. I have a hard time imagining myself in a Volvo because of some bad experiences with two '74 models, plus a no start problem in '80 in a friend's Volvo while fighting hypothermia with a thermos of hot Tang. Irrational perhaps, but not all that uncommon.
Insert the closest thing to an eye-roll emotorcon here. :confuse:
Swearing off GM is SOOOOO easy given they just started making a few nice products 3 years ago. Not too great for over 30 years has some skeletons attached to many an old customer that were burned very badly and will never return.
Man, I guess I need to start playing the lottery more. I've had twelve new Chevys since '81, and while some were better than others, there wasn't a lemon in the bunch. I've dealt with two, in particular, very good and honest Chevy Service Departments too. My current Chevys have 93K and 46K miles, and the previous two had 112K and 60K (OK, 60K isn't much). I've had three with over 100K; two with 93K; the others with less (when I was a batchelor I treated myself to a new car every three years). But as I've said, I'm a notorious cheapskate and I wouldn't tolerate something that was sucking money out of my wallet.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Some of the folks I worked with were really proud of their Volvos when they bought them. Then a year or so later they're driving a junker to work because their Volvo is laid up waiting for parts for weeks on end while their independent mechanic is trying to get parts from New Zealand or somewhere.
Comments
Then there's the no help on VCM--it's performing as designed is the retort.
But, there IS no fix. And it is working as designed.
Wait... WHAT?
Honda designs its own automatic transmissions. Most of the rest of the world actually buys theirs from GM, Ford, or one of their subsidiaries and re-brands the unit. Automatics are something that they put in taxis and rental vehicles in their country and are almost exclusively a North American Market phenomenon. (The numbers of manual vs automatic are almost exactly reversed worldwide vs the U.S. )
The transmission has no defect. It is operating perfectly fine. There is no way to "upgrade" or fix it or set it up so that it won't fail again.
Why? Because the transmission is built for the 4 cylinder Japanese model, where it works fine. Instead of designing a whole new transmission for the V6 models, which represent 100% in the U.S., they put the 4 cylinder transmission in it as well. In Japan, due to their lower average body weight, smaller families, lower average speeds, and less cargo being hauled around, it all works fine. In the U.S., it simply can't handle the extra stress and dies easily. (or the torque converter/clutch pack does, technically)
We weigh more. We drive faster. We accelerate quicker. We simply put, drive our cars much harder and for more miles than most of the rest of the world. My guess is that Honda took the normal margin/factor of safety in the engineering design and thought that they could get away with lowering it a little bit.
If it worked, they would save themselves millions in parts and secondary costs as well as re-tooling. It obviously did not.
But, then again, this seems to only affect Odysseys. The rest of Hondas are more or less fine. Too bad the 4 cylinder or manual Odysseys aren't available in the U.S. or Canada.
http://www.honda.co.jp/ODYSSEY/spec/
As you can see, the version Japan and most of the rest of the world gets is a 4 cylinder.
From what I've seen, those glorious Asian cars are plug average if anything - no better or worse than domestic makes.
High-end European cars are fine for those with a lot of disposable income and a high tolerance for their tempermentality. My brother in law has a lot of trouble with his Mercedes S430, but it was built during a low-quality point for M-B.
VW? Never again! I had an ex-girlfriend with a new VW Jetta that seemed to be broken every other Tuesday. If I didn't have metric tools, that car would've never ran. Parts were ridiculously expensive and customer service was very surly. The guy at the parts counter acted as if I slept with his wife and ran over his dog.
Solution!!!!
Have GM/Chrysler/Ford or the offending party provide a brand new replacement vehicle for the lemon they bought in the past. When one buys a lemon expecting to receive a vehicle, they are still waiting for that vehicle to be delivered. I'd pay not one cent for a lemon, so either provide the replacement vehicle, or return the money in full, and I'll stop whining and complaining.
Easy solution! If GM won't do it, why don't you step up and use your bank account to get rid of the posters on this forum!
I give JD Power zero credibility as they are biased to those who pay their advertising dollars (GM and the like).
If you start quoting some CR numbers/colors, I'll believe it more, at least they don't take payments that are really just bribes and payoffs to get good reviews and call it "advertising."
Even so, there is a thing called quality that doesn't show up in reliability and dependability studies. Not saying reliability isn't important, it is, but also enjoying the vehicle and not having 100 rattles go off every second is important too.
As for that 1972 console tv, well, Granddad broke it down and turned it into a coffee table around 1987. Sorry, I didn't know ya then, otherwise I would've talked him into letting you have it! :P
Get used to it or just don't respond.
Got it?
Regards,
OW
But simply put, GM and Ford dream of the day that they could build a S class. There's a vast chasm between them and Mercedes in engineering skill and design. If money were no object, I'd get one. Of course, I live in reality, so... it's more basic stuff. For that, GM does very well and offers good value for the money. Though, I do loathe their automatics, even if they are the most reliable. If you can get a GM car with a manual transmission, do it.
My dad won a 25" Zenith console color TV (it actually replaced a black and white one!) in 1975 in a sales contest. He had that thing for better than 20 years. Close to 30. It took a couple of repairs over the years but it had a great picture for decades. Finally one repair guy told him he could fix it this time but that it was so old that parts were getting impossible and recommended that next time he replace the set.
He replaced it with an RCA - no, not a good old American RCA, but still a console! We just finished clearing out his house. The one thing no one would take was that TV. I was tempted. Had it been the old Zenith I'd have done it.
We also found a 50s Zenith table radio that needs to have the cord replaced but probably works and a 1939 one that indeed works. The fabric exterior is shot but it still works fine.
That's why I stay with GM. I recall seeing this sleek new Mercedes S600 AMG and thinking it would be an awesome car, but it's out of my financial boundaries. The Cadillac DTS Performance is the nicest car I can find within my means and it happens to be a GM car. I also believe Cadillacs, in general, are the most beautifully styled cars and that goes all the way back to when I was a very small child.
I've always been turned off by Japanese and Korean styling. Something about it looks strange and otherworldly; alien and unsettling.
1) 1,000 rattles before 65,000 miles
2) repair work required every 3 or 4 months
3) transmission at 60K
4) Head Gaskets at 45K
5) Air Conditioning at literally 3 years and 1 week old.
6) poor quality wiring, cables, battery terminals.
7) 4 required tow truck trip expenses
8) cost of repairs and parts
Otherwise, it was a decent driving experience when it actually ran. When being the keyword. The gas mileage could have been better, and the performance seemed to decline a bit with age (only kept it 65K miles so I guess that's old for a domestic). But it handled nicely for a cheap bucket of bolts, it was reasonably comfortable, and it was somewhat peppy for its time. The design was creative looks wise, inside and out.
Naaah. One of the perfect car companies like Tiyota and Honda wouldn't intentionally use a part that wasn't perfectly designed for the application at hand. Not once!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Here it is!
Here's what it looks like if you open the back -
Since I had the pleasure of going to dealers to repair my car on a regular basis, and moved away to college during my ownership period, I got to know not 1, not 2, but 3 separate Dodge dealers, and none of them ever offerred any assistance above a "no cost battery replacement." I went to two different dodge dealerships in Sacramento, CA with no luck. I was forced to go to the Dodge dealer in San Luis Obispo, CA while in college, so I have at least 3 Dodge dealers I can give 0 stars out of 5 stars to as a rating!
So maybe all Dodge dealers were deadbeats. Maybe I should have made more of an effort to contact corporate Chrysler back in the day, but frankly, based on the reaction I got at 3 dealers, I'd say it would have been in vain.
Frankly, Chrysler has computers, they know how much money and time and replacement parts were placed into my vehicle, and I received no letter of apology to date!
But getting back to GM, I've read stories from posters here on Edmunds that seem to mirror more closely to my Chrysler experience than my Honda/Audi/Toyota experiences.
You just keep making the big 3 look worse and worse with your arguments! LOL, but I know that wasn't your intention. :P :shades:
So, discounting heavy inflation which has occurrred in the 12 years (prior to my 2006 purchase 1994-2006) I'd say I'd of fairly expected half the car from the big 3. Is that asking too much? I got about 1% the car I have now. A nice lightly used 2-year old Civic could have been purchased for the same amount of money back in the mid-90's, and I'd of been able to sell it without massive depreciation.
A testament to the Big 3's value proposition when it comes to cars is their resale value. I believe one dealer made an offer of $800 for a 65,000 mile Neon 4-door Sport (fully loaded model) in about as great of condition as a Neon could be!
2011 Dependability
Looks like Hyundai is quite a dependable company in comparison to GM (60% of GM sales IS Chevy). I suspected as much. :shades:
GMC is so low, I would beg to question it's relevance as a brand going forward. If Professional Grade means terrible dependability, it's mere existence becomes a thorn in GM's side.
Regards,
OW
Sadly, it doesn't work. Powers up but nothing else happens.
When I was a kid I had a fetish for old radios and other primitive things, and would pick them up at yard sales when my mother was out antiquing. I had a couple dozen of them, most got sold off at a sale when I was in college, but I kept a few. In some ways (like GM, gotta pretend to be on topic) they represent America at its industrial apex.
The Big 3 are not bad in resale value. Take a look of the KBB's 2011 resale value winner of each category:
2011 BEST RESALE VALUE: BY VEHICLE CATEGORY
SUBCOMPACT CAR: Honda Fit
COMPACT UTILITY VEHICLE: Honda CR-V
COMPACT CAR: MINI Cooper
MID-SIZE UTILITY VEHICLE: Toyota FJ Cruiser
MID-SIZE CAR: Honda Accord
FULL-SIZE UTILITY VEHICLE: GMC Acadia
FULL-SIZE CAR: Ford Taurus
LUXURY UTILITY VEHICLE: BMW X5
NEAR-LUXURY CAR: Lexus IS
HYBRID/ALT. ENERGY UTILITY VEHICLE: BMW X5 XDrive35d
LUXURY CAR: Audi A5
MID-SIZE PICKUP: Toyota Tacoma
SPORTS CAR: Subaru Impreza WRX
FULL-SIZE PICKUP: Ford F-Series Super Duty
HIGH-PERFORMANCE CAR: Ford Mustang GT
VAN: Toyota Sienna
HYBRID/ALT. ENERGY CAR: Volkswagen Golf TDI
WAGON: Subaru Outback
The underlined models are among the top 20 selling models last year. Ford F series is the No. 1 seller, that should adds more weight to the Big 3 overall resale value.
PS, the resale value does not matter much to me. I basically buy new cars and keep them for like 20 years. The lower new car purchase prices actually work to my benefit.
Well, in his defense, IIRC, it was an early 1995 Neon he bought, and those were the worst of the worst. I've known people who have bought later Neons, and especially with the 2nd-gen (2000+) and those were much improved.
I've known people who have bought early first-gen Intrepids, Concordes, and LHS/New Yorkers, and for the most part, nobody has anything nice to say about them, unless you got a '96 or newer, or opted for the more basic models with the tried and true 3.3 V-6, which was simple, pushrod, designed by the guy resonsible for the slant six, and not torquey enough to hurt the transmission TOO much.
My 2000 Intrepid was a good car, but had I bought an earlier model, I might not be singing its praises. But, I also probably would have let it go by now, too!
I haven't had a domestic car last 3 years without falling apart let alone 20. My 07 Expedition is fading fast at 85k in typical domestic car fashion, just like every single domestic I've had before. I don't know how much longer I'll be able to tolerate it. I'd just once like to have a vehicle last me 150k, hasn't happened yet.
My Ford Mustang was 24 years old with 225k miles when I sold it. My Lincoln LS is 11 years old and still looks and drives like new.
I've always been turned off by Japanese and Korean styling. Something about it looks strange and otherworldly; alien and unsettling.
2012 Kia Rio hatchback
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2011 Mazda2
This one is not much over $16,000 and comes with the best manual shifter in the bunch. Weighted and sighted just right. The engine is said ta be a bit gutless-revving up ta near redline is necessary to "just be able ta keep up with traffic."
Yeah, right. I think it would suit my pace, my pace is my pace. The dorks in the domestic pickups can shnip and schnop another time. They crack me up-always jealous of me in my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. I'd be mad if I was stuck in a big egg-beater like that too, though. Sheesh. If driving can't be fun why are we doin' it? :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
As soon as GM is not positioned as the best and the argument is as clear as sunlight, you judiciously ponder the balance on other forums.
Here is some balance that you will be happy that I post.
Kia and Hyundai are far from perfect and GM is much improved, beginning with the '08 Malibu and CTS. They still have some old junk to clean up and the new CUV twins and Lamdas seem to be a hit. The advertising continues to be as bad as it gets, although Kia are at the same level, afaic.
I just think Hyundai/Kia are far more hungry than GM and it shows as the improvements come faster than at GM.
No, I am not going yo the"other forums" to post that!
Regards,
OW
Most likely, unless the engine or transmission failed, but both were acting just fine when the car was totaled. If I still had it, it would have about 165,000 miles on it now (150K + the 15K I've put on the Buick).
There was a lady at work who had a 1994 Eagle Vision that she was always griping about, but it managed to make it to 160,000 miles. She gave it to her son, and I think he drove it for awhile, and then unloaded it for another car. It never needed an engine or transmission replacement, but had lots of problems with sensors, electrical, stalling, refusing to start and such, and it took the dealer forever to get it right.
Now, the pendulum swings the other way. Same for the others, Ford Fiat/Chrysler, Hyundai.
Hyundai's pendulum is quicker than GM, having moved from junk to good real fast.
GM and Toyota seem to give other companies religion on great products.
If the current new GM products do not start failing over the next 3-5 years, they will not repeat the failure cycle that Chrysler fell into.
The perceptions will slowly change....back to the future,1969.
Regards,
OW
My 1988 Buick Park Avenue had a nice long 21 year run and is still on the streets as far as I know: 21 > 3.
My wife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse is over 6 years old and still looks and runs excellent: 6 > 3.
My 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance is virtually like a brand new car: 4 > 3.
None of them are remotely near falling apart.
How many miles do you have on it? 15k? I would expect it to look brand new. I guarantee my Expedition has a duty cycle that you'd never subject one of your cars to. Kids, 80lb lab, hauling what ever, towing a boat, camper, and utility trailers ETC along with mud and snow. I cracked the front facia on the Expe this winter busting through 3' plus snow drifts with my foot to the floor hoping I wasn't going to get stuck (was kind of fun until I heard a load thud and then I saw the 4" crack in the bumper when I got home). I generally put 20k+ a year on my vehicle. I haven't had a Ford or Chevy last 4 years w/o significant repairs with how I use them, much less 10-20.
The only vehicle I've had that went 4 years w/o a significant issue and withstood my abuse was an '01 Nissan Pathfinder. It was leased, so I turned it in after 4 years, but it was vault tight and very reliable over the 60k miles I put on it, it certainly never cost me a big repair bill (just an 02 sensor). My Suburban and Expedition haven't been 1/4 as good or well assembled. Though I will admit the newer Nissan's don't seem to be as well built as the pre Renault-Nissan built models.
I asked for documentation or links and AFAIR it was just "common knowledge!". :P
We'd all be rolling our eyes at the guy who said that, right?
Insert the closest thing to an eye-roll emotorcon here. :confuse:
Trolling Customer Service or not!
Regards,
OW
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No Fair!
Regards,
OW