From what I understand, the upcoming Malibu is going to be based on the same Epsilon platform as the Regal and likely share powertrain options too. No more v6. I've read the same thing about the new Fusion. It too likely will not have a v6 option. Looks like direct injection and turbocharging is what the power option is going to be.
That's just one review. US News combines the ratings from all available reviews from car magazines, websites, and gave an overall rank of No. 7 to the Malibu, ahead of Camry, Altima and Accord; and also give it the best car for the money award. It says "When the current generation of the Chevrolet Malibu debuted, it leaped to the front of the class for its pleasing performance, good looks and stylish cabin."
Actually, here's the timeline for the Corolla: 1979-83 1984-87 (with the exception of the SR-5 coupe, which was RWD and may have been based on the '79-83 design) 1988-92 1993-97 1998-02 (I always thought this style looked a lot like a facelift of the '93-97, but supposedly it was all-new) 2003-07 (came out early though; my uncle bought his '03 Corolla on Memorial Day weekend, 2002) 2008-now (again, supposedly all-new, but I think it looks like it's just a facelift of the '03-07).
Also, while the Malibu seems to be updating more often, I'm not convinced it's totally all-new each time, either. When the '04 Malibu came out, it was on a wheelbase of around 106", but the hatchback Maxx model was on a 112.3" wb, as was the newly-introduced Pontiac G6. When the Saturn Aura came out for 2007, it was on that same 112.3" wb, and then so was the Malibu.
And, it's my understanding the 2012 Malibu is just going to be a refresh, rather than all-new.
Now, that's not to say that "all-new" is automatically better. After all, the current Ford Fusion isn't "all new". And it's a pretty good car, and still competitive.
IMO, the Malibu was on an 8 year cycle as the 04 redo was a bad joke, making a decent looking car into a butt ugly cheaper looking one.
What about the Impala? Jesus, somebody stick a fork in it please! GM definitely still has a few dinosaurs in the line up that could use an update. STS, DTS (sorry Lemko), and Lucerne.
Whether logical or not, this IS the way the auto market works. Wouldn't it behoove every auto maker to not nickel and dime the small stuff, and to provide a sterling customer experience? I know that I would put up with a moderate level of problems in a car if I felt the service was excellent -- as you received from GM, given your previous posts. But this is not true for everybody's experience!
Actually it is very logical to stay away from a company that burns you. If everyone did this no one would get burned anymore after some time, because 100% of the companies out there would have already learned the lesson, and of course the one's that don't would have died off by now because no one is going to give them another chance.
Oh wait! That's exactly what happened. Except the one's that died off were saved by the government and tax payer dollars. Still doesn't change the fact that staying away from that company is the best way to get rid of it, and there's no reason to change that logic now just because tax payer dollars were wasted.
I wish everyone would black list companies that sell junk. Would make it easier and safer to shop in the future.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
It appears that the Japanese automakers have lost their last stronghold, the fuel efficient cars.
Without Horsepower and Torque to go along with the fuel efficiency numbers, they are meaningless. I could go out and buy an 80's Honda with 75 HP and probably get better mileage then many of the new cars today. Anyone can make an engine smaller, and weaker, and get better mileage. I want performance and mileage!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
i dont know, maybe its just me, but i find it hilarious that an audi guy with more hours on his check engine light bulb, than most people have on their fridge light bulb has the nerve to be casting reliability stones at any automaker.
It must be just you. Audi owners of the past 5-7 years know something non-Audi owners don't. That Audi has been making the very best automotive products out of anyone in the world in the past decade. They have surpassed the competitiion in so many ways, that even BMW looks like Honda right now, struggling to recapture their excellence from 10 years ago.
Audi is the premier automaker in the world right now. Go drive one!
My CEL has only been on one time for a short while by the way, and it was a recirculation valve issue (part cost $100, labor, 3 hours). Your refridgerator would have to be pretty new to beat that. 78,000 miles! I've driven the snot out of this car and it just loves it! This car loves to be driven hard, red-lined, cornered, and is just too fun!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
$24K sticker with $2,000 rebate and $1,000 cash back, another $1,000 if you're a member of AARP, and I have $1,507 credit on my GM card.
Hell of a deal IMO.
Not a big fan of the '07 Ford Taurus-style 'grille' on the front fenders of the Optima.
And the Malibu is built in Kansas City, for those of us who give a damn about that kind of thing.
You said all that above long windedly I might add. Circle W said:
Kia Optima 4 cyl. 274hp/269lb.ft 22/34/26 mpg.
Your talk is all about price (cheapness), rebates, cash back, and then subjectively knocking the looks of the competition. CircleW was all about the cold hard facts, the performance numbers, the real deal, the vehicle itself, not the financial perspective (although that's solid with Kia too).
I'm gonna go with CircleW and Kia in this bout. Hands down, landslide victory, no contest, no comparison.
Power, gas mileage, performance! good job Kia, now if only you could put an Audi Chassis and suspension set up in there. :P
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
you have stated before that your cel has been on twice. Which makes my avalanche, infinity times 2, more reliable than your audi. if you want to go by your new claim of cel only came on once, than my chev is still infinite times better (with 300k) :shades: And my truck sees plenty of abuse towing my 26ft deck boat and 29ft travel trailer.
What reliability edge? It's so tiny as to be invisible. The worst car of 2011 is still better than the best car of 1991.
Not for the average consumer. Your talking the law of averages, and in that case, it may or may not be true (early 90's Honda's have legendary status for instance), but in an individual case, I know many early 90's Camry owners where it's not possible for ANY car in 2011 to be more reliable, (can't be better than perfect), let alone the worst car of 2011.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
you have stated before that your cel has been on twice.
Oh yes, you are correct, forgot about the intake runner module, total repair costs under $300, which is less than 99% of the repairs my domestic vehicle needed 999 times. Every repair seemed to be $300 or more with the Dodge except for one, which was like $200.
Point is, I'll take a CEL light anyday and anytime to a real mechanical breakdown. It's just been a steady yellow light when it has come on, not blinking or flashing, nor red!
However, my Neon broke down 4 times leaving me stranded for a tow truck and not once did I get a CEL light in those 4 instances! LOL. The CEL light however, did go on several times, but usually for stupid reasons like O2 sensors, and batteries being disconnected due to poor wiring/electrical/cabling.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
total repair costs under $300, which is less than 99% of the repairs my domestic vehicle needed 999 times. Every repair seemed to be $300 or more with the Dodge except for one, which was like $200.
I can relate, I don't think I've ever had a repair under $500 on my Suburban or the Expedition I have currently. The hits just keep coming and the closer they get to 100k miles the worse it gets.
you have stated before that your cel has been on twice. Which makes my avalanche, infinity times 2, more reliable than your audi. if you want to go by your new claim of cel only came on once, than my chev is still infinite times better (with 300k)
There are a million worse things that can happen than a quality early warning and detection system that makes the CEL go on. My car was perfectly driveable, just had a bit of a boost leak and was probably running at 99% rather than 100%. Absent the light, I'd of never known anything was wrong, which is what I think is a commmon problem with domestics, you never know when a million things are going wrong all around you, until the tow truck is required.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"Have you held off on a car purchase because you're waiting for a better deal? Or did you go ahead and buy because you assume car prices could just rise even further this summer? An Associated Press reporter would like to talk with you. Please send your contact information to Aaron Lewis at pr@edmunds.com."
IMO, the Malibu was on an 8 year cycle as the 04 redo was a bad joke, making a decent looking car into a butt ugly cheaper looking one.
It does not matter what YOU think; it matters what the industry thinks.
This is quote from Wikipedia:
"Seventh generation 2008–2012
The Malibu was redesigned for the 2008 model year by Bryan Nesbitt,[12] under the direction of GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz — who was determined to make the nameplate competitive with Japanese mid-size cars. Extensive engineering and design went into the remodel.[13]. "
Agreed that Toyota is behind the times and needs to get up and DO something other than worry about people that can't tell the difference between a brake and accelerator pedal! :P :sick:
It's called FOOLproof, for a reason. Toyota vehicles should come with a "driving for dummies" book.
However, one thing Toyota does have is supreme reliablity, despite the recalls.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Agreed that Toyota is behind the times and needs to get up and DO something other than worry about people that can't tell the difference between a brake and accelerator pedal!
It's called FOOLproof, for a reason. Toyota vehicles should come with a "driving for dummies" book.
which is what I think is a commmon problem with domestics, you never know when a million things are going wrong all around you, until the tow truck is required.
I think a common problem with import owners is they "forget" how many problems they actually have with their vehicles, they just know that it is less than the domestics. :shades:
It does not matter what YOU think; it matters what the industry thinks.
If you would read what I wrote, I was talking about the 04 Malibu, that was so great, it garnered the name "rentabu".
The 08 redesign was indeed a much improved car and I have nothing bad to say about it other than I would choose other cars over it. That doesn't mean it's a bad car, just that I prefer other cars in the that segment.
However, one thing Toyota does have is supreme reliablity, despite the recalls.
I don't know about the 07 Camry, but my MIL has an 05 XLS v6 that has 140k and not one single repair. She commutes from the burbs into downtown Chicago everyday, so it's not like they are highway miles, far from it. The Saturn she had prior to the Camry was ready for the junk yard by 130k. It was falling apart by 90k, burning oil, leaking trans fluid, squeaks, rattles, rust on the door window frames etc, and just an overall POS.
If you would read what I wrote, I was talking about the 04 Malibu, that was so great, it garnered the name "rentabu".
That's a real knee-slapper. Clever too.
I've rented a zillion cars over the year. I'd call a '97-02 Malibu a 'rentabu', but the 2004 and later drove eons better, and in certain models had suede seat inserts...very comfy. The Maxx model was a good idea and was the first car I ever saw where the rear seats could be adjusted forward and backward. But the '08 was so much better-styled IMO.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Not doubt the 04 had a better chassis, but the styling was very uninspiring inside and out.
You're probably right, the '97-02 probably sold more to fleets, but I'd wage the '04-08 model had a higher percentage going to fleets. Sales definitely increased to retail customers in '08 and rightfully so. The Maxx model was interesting, but I think it was even uglier.
Absolutely. Recalls is not equal to reliability, it is a measure of manufacturing quality control.
Or design and testing.
My dad had a '00 Taurus prior to his '09 Accord. Overall it was reliable and made to 180k or so. But I recall it having a ton of recalls particularly early on and he had several minor problems that were annoying. Like the brake interlock not working and he couldn't get out of park and the time the brake lights stayed on when he got to work and they ran his battery dead by the end of the day.
As for his Accord, it's the first car he's had that didn't have to go to dealer via tow truck prior to 60k miles. The rear brakes did need replacing around 35k in typical Accord fashion, but that's hardly a big deal and it didn't cost much. No VCM issues, I've driven it a few times and other than the VCM light, I never noticed it active. Seems like it's light years tighter than my wife's '11 Taurus.
Congrats on your good Cavalier reliability experience.
A Cavalier could have had a 1 million mile bumper to bumper warranty and I still wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole. Talk about an cheap appliance.
Problem is, GM is behind as usual instead of leading.
I think that's their biggest issue. When you looked at Honda in the '70's coming out with entirely new engine technology that didn't need catalytic converters (CVCC) you said "wow!". When Toyota came out with the original LS400 Lexus you said "wow!". VW came out with the Jetta in the late '90's with a quality of driving experience and interior quality that was "wow!". When Ford comes out with the Fusion hybrid that gets high mileage in a better hybrid package than anybody else, and then the Ford Sync that is an advance in vehicle controls that nobody else has, you say "wow". When Hyundai comes out with the Sonata, and then the Elantra, that are styled better with more features than anybody at that price, you say "wow!". Where are GM's "wow!" moments? Perhaps the Volt, but at the price IMHO it's not "wow!" enough. Not the two mode hybrids. Not the Malibu, where the only "wow!" was that they were finally in the ballpark vs. their competitors. I just don't see the leadership, yet.
If anything, it would be the Impala being off the Holden platform, but I've heard that was nixed as well.
My brain was in the wrong gear this morning... I mean the replacement for the Impala. GM really really wants to find a way to bring back that Holden under some label and the Impala is due for a replacement/major change soon. Just slap some new stickers on it - the Commodore looks decidedly of the same design team DNA on the outside as the current Malibu as well.
Also, it has the thing that police departments and most people who buy large cars want... RWD.
Easy, mostly marketing change. I'd buy one.
P.S. - to the previous poster, GM's big "wow" moment recently was the new CTS. Followed by the new STS that came out last year. (essentially a larger CTS)
In 2009 I purchased GM stock at about $9.00 share. 228 shares. I was a loyal GM customer and have 2 Chevy cars in my driveway $50K tahoe & $25K Impala. I always requested Chevy vehicles for sales vehicles for my company. I saw GM as an American company, like apple pie. During its stock dive, I fiqured they had to get better, afterall, this was the great GM. Little did I know, they were planning to file bankrupcy about 8 months later. Of course, I lost all my money. This investment was going to be my kids College fund. I know, there are risks and I accept it, but I cant help but feeling betrayed and abused. To make matters worse they then get bailed out from the Government. I have lost my interest in the GM brand and wont be buying their vehicles in my lifetime. I will tell my story to my kids and influence them to buy another Auto maker as well. I went from having the Chevy hat and telling everyone how great Chevy Auto to now saying dont buy Chevy.
Well, the Optima is so far ahead of anything GM makes in the price/segment that it's ridiculous.
I would be chaining the engineers to their 'puters to ensure the '13 'Bu was better
IIRC the current Malibu is just a modified Opel with more comfortable seats than most of the Asian models. I haven't seen the new Kia, but my impression of previous models I've been stuck with as rentals was chintz Hyundai. If indeed the latest Hyundai and Kia models have surpassed the Malibu, then I guess the Koreans are passing up the Germans?
Don't remind me. The G8 was the 2nd best car GM had at that point and it fell with the rest of Pontiac. I'd have re-badged it as an "anything" at that point and kept it in the market, as it was superb.
Driving reminded me of a BMW 5 series. Very solid, planted, and big - like a CTS's big brother. But also soft around the edges and a bit more pleasing on the eyes than the angular CTS. I have a mental checklist of any car that I test drive, and it includes thing like cupholders, stereo usability, rear A/C ducts, and a few dozen other small things that I want or desire on any car.
It had nearly all of them. The only other things that did that recently were the C class, the Acura TSX, and the G37. Very polished and well thought-out, but at a price that wasn't 40-50K, either.
Then it died. Stupidest move by GM in a long, long time. They really need to bring it back as it's exactly what people want in a larger car.
I'm with you Fintail. Sure the Sonata and Kia Optima are impressive as are the Genesis and Equus, but they still are not a BMW or Benz. You still get what you pay for and whether it's a watch, a boat, or a car, it's not linear. That extra 10% in performance, quality, or whatever usually costs a lot more.
My neighbor had a Genesis 4.6 for about a year, didn't take him long to move up to a 550i.
Exactly, close is relatively easy, completely isn't.
Not that the others aren't still a value.
No question about that. Sometimes good enough, is well, good enough.
The only Hyundai I can think of that can be remotely considered 80% of a BMW would be a Genesis since it's RWD, FWD isn't going to cut it, unless your just talking 0-60-0, but there is so much more than 0-60 on a premium car like a BMW. I haven't driven a new Sonata, but I've read more than one article that indicates Hyundai's chassis tuning is still a work in progress.
Comments
Toyota is the new champ in recalls.
That's just one review. US News combines the ratings from all available reviews from car magazines, websites, and gave an overall rank of No. 7 to the Malibu, ahead of Camry, Altima and Accord; and also give it the best car for the money award. It says "When the current generation of the Chevrolet Malibu debuted, it leaped to the front of the class for its pleasing performance, good looks and stylish cabin."
Mid size car ranking
Where did you get that idea? Here are the design cycle for several cars:
Chevy Malibu: 4 years (2004, 2008, 2012)
Toyota Camry: 5 years (2001, 2006, ?)
Toyota Corolla: 6 years (2000, 2006, ?)
Complaint it to Toyota instead.
1979-83
1984-87 (with the exception of the SR-5 coupe, which was RWD and may have been based on the '79-83 design)
1988-92
1993-97
1998-02 (I always thought this style looked a lot like a facelift of the '93-97, but supposedly it was all-new)
2003-07 (came out early though; my uncle bought his '03 Corolla on Memorial Day weekend, 2002)
2008-now (again, supposedly all-new, but I think it looks like it's just a facelift of the '03-07).
Also, while the Malibu seems to be updating more often, I'm not convinced it's totally all-new each time, either. When the '04 Malibu came out, it was on a wheelbase of around 106", but the hatchback Maxx model was on a 112.3" wb, as was the newly-introduced Pontiac G6. When the Saturn Aura came out for 2007, it was on that same 112.3" wb, and then so was the Malibu.
And, it's my understanding the 2012 Malibu is just going to be a refresh, rather than all-new.
Now, that's not to say that "all-new" is automatically better. After all, the current Ford Fusion isn't "all new". And it's a pretty good car, and still competitive.
What about the Impala? Jesus, somebody stick a fork in it please! GM definitely still has a few dinosaurs in the line up that could use an update. STS, DTS (sorry Lemko), and Lucerne.
Actually it is very logical to stay away from a company that burns you. If everyone did this no one would get burned anymore after some time, because 100% of the companies out there would have already learned the lesson, and of course the one's that don't would have died off by now because no one is going to give them another chance.
Oh wait! That's exactly what happened. Except the one's that died off were saved by the government and tax payer dollars. Still doesn't change the fact that staying away from that company is the best way to get rid of it, and there's no reason to change that logic now just because tax payer dollars were wasted.
I wish everyone would black list companies that sell junk. Would make it easier and safer to shop in the future.
Without Horsepower and Torque to go along with the fuel efficiency numbers, they are meaningless. I could go out and buy an 80's Honda with 75 HP and probably get better mileage then many of the new cars today. Anyone can make an engine smaller, and weaker, and get better mileage. I want performance and mileage!
It must be just you. Audi owners of the past 5-7 years know something non-Audi owners don't. That Audi has been making the very best automotive products out of anyone in the world in the past decade. They have surpassed the competitiion in so many ways, that even BMW looks like Honda right now, struggling to recapture their excellence from 10 years ago.
Audi is the premier automaker in the world right now. Go drive one!
My CEL has only been on one time for a short while by the way, and it was a recirculation valve issue (part cost $100, labor, 3 hours). Your refridgerator would have to be pretty new to beat that. 78,000 miles! I've driven the snot out of this car and it just loves it! This car loves to be driven hard, red-lined, cornered, and is just too fun!
Hell of a deal IMO.
Not a big fan of the '07 Ford Taurus-style 'grille' on the front fenders of the Optima.
And the Malibu is built in Kansas City, for those of us who give a damn about that kind of thing.
You said all that above long windedly I might add. Circle W said:
Kia Optima 4 cyl. 274hp/269lb.ft 22/34/26 mpg.
Your talk is all about price (cheapness), rebates, cash back, and then subjectively knocking the looks of the competition. CircleW was all about the cold hard facts, the performance numbers, the real deal, the vehicle itself, not the financial perspective (although that's solid with Kia too).
I'm gonna go with CircleW and Kia in this bout. Hands down, landslide victory, no contest, no comparison.
Power, gas mileage, performance! good job Kia, now if only you could put an Audi Chassis and suspension set up in there. :P
And my truck sees plenty of abuse towing my 26ft deck boat and 29ft travel trailer.
Not for the average consumer. Your talking the law of averages, and in that case, it may or may not be true (early 90's Honda's have legendary status for instance), but in an individual case, I know many early 90's Camry owners where it's not possible for ANY car in 2011 to be more reliable, (can't be better than perfect), let alone the worst car of 2011.
Oh yes, you are correct, forgot about the intake runner module, total repair costs under $300, which is less than 99% of the repairs my domestic vehicle needed 999 times. Every repair seemed to be $300 or more with the Dodge except for one, which was like $200.
Point is, I'll take a CEL light anyday and anytime to a real mechanical breakdown. It's just been a steady yellow light when it has come on, not blinking or flashing, nor red!
However, my Neon broke down 4 times leaving me stranded for a tow truck and not once did I get a CEL light in those 4 instances! LOL. The CEL light however, did go on several times, but usually for stupid reasons like O2 sensors, and batteries being disconnected due to poor wiring/electrical/cabling.
I can relate, I don't think I've ever had a repair under $500 on my Suburban or the Expedition I have currently. The hits just keep coming and the closer they get to 100k miles the worse it gets.
There are a million worse things that can happen than a quality early warning and detection system that makes the CEL go on. My car was perfectly driveable, just had a bit of a boost leak and was probably running at 99% rather than 100%. Absent the light, I'd of never known anything was wrong, which is what I think is a commmon problem with domestics, you never know when a million things are going wrong all around you, until the tow truck is required.
Chevy Cruze Eco: 1.4 l, 138 HP, 148 lb-ft torque, 42 mpg
Toyota Corolla: 1.8 l, 132 HP, 128 lb-ft torque, 35 mpg
Toyota engine is bigger yet weaker and less efficient. They are way behind...
PS, don't be a lazy guy in denial. You can do your own research before making this kind of post.
It does not matter what YOU think; it matters what the industry thinks.
This is quote from Wikipedia:
"Seventh generation 2008–2012
The Malibu was redesigned for the 2008 model year by Bryan Nesbitt,[12] under the direction of GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz — who was determined to make the nameplate competitive with Japanese mid-size cars. Extensive engineering and design went into the remodel.[13]. "
Malibu generations
It's called FOOLproof, for a reason. Toyota vehicles should come with a "driving for dummies" book.
However, one thing Toyota does have is supreme reliablity, despite the recalls.
It's called FOOLproof, for a reason. Toyota vehicles should come with a "driving for dummies" book.
Did you mean Toyota drivers are dummies? :shades:
I think a common problem with import owners is they "forget" how many problems they actually have with their vehicles, they just know that it is less than the domestics. :shades:
CR worse-than-average, Camry V6, 2007, at one year?
If you would read what I wrote, I was talking about the 04 Malibu, that was so great, it garnered the name "rentabu".
The 08 redesign was indeed a much improved car and I have nothing bad to say about it other than I would choose other cars over it. That doesn't mean it's a bad car, just that I prefer other cars in the that segment.
I don't know about the 07 Camry, but my MIL has an 05 XLS v6 that has 140k and not one single repair. She commutes from the burbs into downtown Chicago everyday, so it's not like they are highway miles, far from it. The Saturn she had prior to the Camry was ready for the junk yard by 130k. It was falling apart by 90k, burning oil, leaking trans fluid, squeaks, rattles, rust on the door window frames etc, and just an overall POS.
No problem, I've done that myself from time to time;)
That's a real knee-slapper. Clever too.
I've rented a zillion cars over the year. I'd call a '97-02 Malibu a 'rentabu', but the 2004 and later drove eons better, and in certain models had suede seat inserts...very comfy. The Maxx model was a good idea and was the first car I ever saw where the rear seats could be adjusted forward and backward. But the '08 was so much better-styled IMO.
Not doubt the 04 had a better chassis, but the styling was very uninspiring inside and out.
You're probably right, the '97-02 probably sold more to fleets, but I'd wage the '04-08 model had a higher percentage going to fleets. Sales definitely increased to retail customers in '08 and rightfully so. The Maxx model was interesting, but I think it was even uglier.
Absolutely. Recalls is not equal to reliability, it is a measure of manufacturing quality control.
Congrats on your good Cavalier reliability experience.
Or design and testing.
My dad had a '00 Taurus prior to his '09 Accord. Overall it was reliable and made to 180k or so. But I recall it having a ton of recalls particularly early on and he had several minor problems that were annoying. Like the brake interlock not working and he couldn't get out of park and the time the brake lights stayed on when he got to work and they ran his battery dead by the end of the day.
As for his Accord, it's the first car he's had that didn't have to go to dealer via tow truck prior to 60k miles. The rear brakes did need replacing around 35k in typical Accord fashion, but that's hardly a big deal and it didn't cost much. No VCM issues, I've driven it a few times and other than the VCM light, I never noticed it active. Seems like it's light years tighter than my wife's '11 Taurus.
A Cavalier could have had a 1 million mile bumper to bumper warranty and I still wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole. Talk about an cheap appliance.
I think that's their biggest issue. When you looked at Honda in the '70's coming out with entirely new engine technology that didn't need catalytic converters (CVCC) you said "wow!". When Toyota came out with the original LS400 Lexus you said "wow!". VW came out with the Jetta in the late '90's with a quality of driving experience and interior quality that was "wow!". When Ford comes out with the Fusion hybrid that gets high mileage in a better hybrid package than anybody else, and then the Ford Sync that is an advance in vehicle controls that nobody else has, you say "wow". When Hyundai comes out with the Sonata, and then the Elantra, that are styled better with more features than anybody at that price, you say "wow!". Where are GM's "wow!" moments? Perhaps the Volt, but at the price IMHO it's not "wow!" enough. Not the two mode hybrids. Not the Malibu, where the only "wow!" was that they were finally in the ballpark vs. their competitors. I just don't see the leadership, yet.
My brain was in the wrong gear this morning... I mean the replacement for the Impala. GM really really wants to find a way to bring back that Holden under some label and the Impala is due for a replacement/major change soon. Just slap some new stickers on it - the Commodore looks decidedly of the same design team DNA on the outside as the current Malibu as well.
Also, it has the thing that police departments and most people who buy large cars want... RWD.
Easy, mostly marketing change. I'd buy one.
P.S. - to the previous poster, GM's big "wow" moment recently was the new CTS. Followed by the new STS that came out last year. (essentially a larger CTS)
The 2008 is the best car Chevy made in 30 years. Try the competition so you can balance your perspective. The '08 is "Old News".
Regards,
OW
Then the failure occured and the G8 wasn't in the new entity?
Idiotic as usual. :sick:
Regards,
OW
P.S. - Tht G8 should have been Impala in a Heartbeat (of America)!!!!
"member that one? It used to Run Deep but instead is now Deep Doo Doo.
I would be chaining the engineers to their 'puters to ensure the '13 'Bu was better than the Camaro and will launch in October if I were Ackerson!!
On the door to the Design Lab would read: "Bean Counters Enter and Be Terminated."
But I digress. Kia Rules!
Regards,
OW
Impressive. :shades:
Regards,
OW
Any proof of this? "pretty damn well" sounds a little suspect to me :shades:
I would be chaining the engineers to their 'puters to ensure the '13 'Bu was better
IIRC the current Malibu is just a modified Opel with more comfortable seats than most of the Asian models. I haven't seen the new Kia, but my impression of previous models I've been stuck with as rentals was chintz Hyundai. If indeed the latest Hyundai and Kia models have surpassed the Malibu, then I guess the Koreans are passing up the Germans?
For the value/performance? Definitely. Check it out and let us know your view.
You can put 20K in the bank and get 80% of a 3'er performance with the room of a 5'er on regular gas!
For the Merc crowd make that 90%!!
Regards,
OW
GMC??? BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Regards,
OW
I don't think the endless bailouts and coddling the Korean gvt has given HyunKia has produced such results just yet
Regards,
OW
Driving reminded me of a BMW 5 series. Very solid, planted, and big - like a CTS's big brother. But also soft around the edges and a bit more pleasing on the eyes than the angular CTS. I have a mental checklist of any car that I test drive, and it includes thing like cupholders, stereo usability, rear A/C ducts, and a few dozen other small things that I want or desire on any car.
It had nearly all of them. The only other things that did that recently were the C class, the Acura TSX, and the G37. Very polished and well thought-out, but at a price that wasn't 40-50K, either.
Then it died. Stupidest move by GM in a long, long time. They really need to bring it back as it's exactly what people want in a larger car.
I'm with you Fintail. Sure the Sonata and Kia Optima are impressive as are the Genesis and Equus, but they still are not a BMW or Benz. You still get what you pay for and whether it's a watch, a boat, or a car, it's not linear. That extra 10% in performance, quality, or whatever usually costs a lot more.
My neighbor had a Genesis 4.6 for about a year, didn't take him long to move up to a 550i.
Drive a 3er and get back to me
Not that the others aren't still a value.
Not that the others aren't still a value.
No question about that. Sometimes good enough, is well, good enough.
The only Hyundai I can think of that can be remotely considered 80% of a BMW would be a Genesis since it's RWD, FWD isn't going to cut it, unless your just talking 0-60-0, but there is so much more than 0-60 on a premium car like a BMW. I haven't driven a new Sonata, but I've read more than one article that indicates Hyundai's chassis tuning is still a work in progress.