I also just love the '56, like the '57 and '58 (I know I stand alone on that last one)
Actually, you don't stand alone there. I'm really not much of a Ford guy, but I'd say the '58 is about my favorite year for 50's Fords. I didn't care for the jutting, bug-eyed headlights of the '57, but I think the '58, despite being more heavy-handed and glittery, actually looks better. Now for '59, I think they got a little TOO heavy and bulky looking, as they were really showing their Thunderbird influence by that time.
I think the '56 Ford is attractive enough, but just doesn't excite me.
But, I'm also weird in that I prefer the '58 Chevy to the '57!
I'm surprised people just didn't hold out to buy a Camry if they wanted one so badly.
Well a new Camry is just around the corner. No idea how good it will be, but it's common for sales to drop before a new model comes out, particularly when there is tough competition.
The choices for a competent family sedan are better today than in a long time. I've driven about 3k miles over the past month or so and it seems Hyundai and Kia are doing great. I've seen tons of new Elantras and Sonatas. Cruzes and Malibu too. I've been seeing lots of new Jettas too. The increased sales of the models I mentioned are coming at the expense of Toy/Honda.
The Cam/Cords are outdated, not much incentive to buy one now.
Dana had to pay big bucks because of that issue. I will search for the link.
So obviously they did *not* meet all of Toyota's specs.
If an owner of a Tundra has this issue, the LAST thing they care about is where or who actually made the truck frame, they care about the fact that it's a Toyota truck that's causing the headache, that a "quality" name such as Toyota shouldn't be having these issues if they're serious about building full-size trucks, and that they'll be avoiding Toyota in the future for their next truck purchase, and they'll tell their friends and colleagues to do the same thing.
You can blame Dana all you want. The owners won't, they'll look at the name on the tailgate as the responsible party.
I'd take a '58 Chevy any day of the week over a '57. I do like '55's and '56 Chevys though.
One problem I have with owners of show cars of that era, is they so often tack every single accessory on them. I saw an otherwise-beautiful '56 Ford Sunliner a couple weeks ago that was like this.
The only thing I don't like about a '58 Impala is that 'comb' on the rear quarter!
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Some don't get the global markets and tend to forget everyone needs each other to prosper. Imagine if that ever happens and people embrace it. :surprise:
I was responding to an import-bashing post, simply pointing out what they were actually bashing was a domestically made frame from a domestic supplier.
Another perfectly clear point. When the accelerator problem was traced to a US mfg for the Toyota UA problem, it proves that quality "Runs Deep".
The companies name was "CTS"! :surprise:
The CTS Corporation, the Indiana-based automotive supplier that makes the gas-pedal assembly at the center of Toyota’s “stop sale” order and recall announcements this week, also produces assemblies for other manufacturers, including Honda and Ford.
Enough said? If the parts suck, Toyota takes the heat...just like GM did to loose their dominance in the US market. Always said Toyota was getting GM Disease!
Cadillac dragged down the overall results, with a big 26% decline from last July to total sales of 11,119. GM said that decline was driven in part by a "significant reduction" in fleet sales. Caddy also had a tough comparison with last July's 142% gain over 2009. Same statement in June.
July fleet sales rose 13% from last July, and fleet deliveries accounted for 26% of GM's total sales for the month.
Is GM tops in fleet?
Brand highlights:
The Cadillac brand's CTS sales were off 19%, SRX was down 27% and the Escalade was down 27%. Year-to-date, Cadillac sales are up 9%, which still lags behind overall industry gains.
The Chevrolet brand sold 149,005 vehicles, up 6%, GM said. Year-to-date, Chevy is up 14%. The hot compact Equinox crossover was up 73%, but the Malibu sedan and Silverado pickup were both down 4.5%.
Buick sales of 16,873 were up 0.4% from last year. Year-to-date Buick sales up 27%, GM said. LaCrosse was down 15%, but the new Regal was up 107% and the Enclave crossover was up 22%.
GMC sales were up 36% to 37,918, and are up 25% year-to-date, GM said. The Terrain compact crossover was up 93%, while the full-size Acadia was up 87%. Sierra pickups rose 5.8%.
I don't think the companies would appreciate the down time having the rusted Toyota frames replaced every 7 years.
Trust me, the F150's and Silverados were breaking down more often than once every 7 years. Heck, they might not even last 7 years. My company had a policy of junking the trunks once they hit 150,000 miles regardless of age, which with all the driving going on from site to site and office to office was usually in a lot less than 7 years.
Someone mentioned that Tundra's might run $5K more per piece when new. That is penny wise and pound foolish to decide on that factor! For one, the Tundra is more reliable and won't have down time (except after 7 years when it rusts through according to some). For two, it won't need expensive repairs, tow trucks, and maintenance constantly (to the point where my company hired Enterprise to run the repair and maintenance program of our fleet!). And lastly, when you go to sell it, it'll probably recoup all of that 5,000 dollars if not more on resale value; which by the way, you've already saved because the Ford's Timing Chain broke at 80,000 miles. (so much for chains being better than belts; chains break too (this example was a Project Managers Ford Explorer or Escape, can't remember).
It wasn't until recently that toyota has fallen from being a leader in fuel economy either.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
That's why I've always told anyone who will listen to me, if your going to buy Japanese or German, you want to steer clear of any vehicles with a VIN # that DOES NOT start with a W or a J.
Get the J or the W, helps you to avoid rusty parts from US companies like Dana, and faulty accelerators like CTS. Now that doesn't mean that vehicles assembled in Japan and Germany are 100% foreign parts, but it certainly seems to help.
My car was made in Ingolstadt, Germany, by people who know how to make cars, just like people in NY city can't make salsa, I get my salsa from folks in San Antonio! :P :P
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I can understand the 'Nox being #2. My sister and brother-in-law bought one a couple weeks ago, after debating between that, the CR-V, and the Rogue. They choose the 'Nox since they felt it was larger than the other two, the interior was top-notch, and the value was very good. The only thing that wasn't good was the financing, they went through a credit union since the 3.9% for 4 years was a little too much.
Geez, a high financing rate for a GM vehicle? When's the last time you heard that one?
What's surprising is the Escape! How many are being sold into fleets?
That's why I've always told anyone who will listen to me, if your going to buy Japanese or German, you want to steer clear of any vehicles with a VIN # that DOES NOT start with a W or a J.
Wow, your word carries a lot of weight with a lot of people, cause people who rely on trucks for their living are sure avoiding that tundra. :lemon:
edit... just kidding nobodys listening to you... its just coincidence :P
If Honda had treated me like Dodge/Chrysler, they'd be getting trounced too!
Had Audi decided to conduct business like Dodge/Chrysler, then they'd be getting trounced lately too.
Not only are the companies like night and day, but the products are too!
But it goes beyond that, as the Dealers make a difference in your perception as well. Act like it's normal for parts to break down, must be a Big 3 dealer. Act embarrrassed and fix the problem expeditiously, must be a foreign nameplate's dealer is my impression.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
trust me, the F150's and Silverados were breaking down more often than once every 7 years. Heck, they might not even last 7
The electrician next to me at work has a 1986 Suburban that he uses every winter to plow snow from his and our commercial driveway. The body has some rust but the frame is sound, and the 350 V-8 keeps plugging away. It's his daily driver.
I don't see too many 25 year old Toyota trucks still on the road.
Got upgraded to a caddy CTS this past week. It drove and handled nice for a mid 30's car, but it had a few shortcomings as well. The trunk was small, there was no inside fuel filler door release, nor a step on parking brake release. Bob Lutz promotes himself as an important product guru for GM, but this vehicle had one glaring deficiency -extreemely short and uncomfortable seat bottoms. I don't know why because there was plenty of front seat travel. Something tells me that maybe Lutz was as much a cost cutter as product guru. Inexcusable and dumb decisions on an entry level near lux model. I thought they Lutz claimed he brought in cars like lexus and BMW for cadillac to design against? This rental makes me think his book may be a fiction entry.
It's been awhile since Lutz had retired. It may well be that the bean counters are counter attacking. I seriously doubt that he was behind any short comings in design.
Inexcusable and dumb decisions on an entry level near lux model.
Yep, that sounds like it's those bean counters again.
I didn't realize GM offers less than a 3.42 ratio. I was unable to get less than a 3.42 back in '01 with my 4X4 ext cab. The 3.42 gets me 18.5 mpg on trips. I doubt any Toyota from 10 years ago can claim higher mileage. I see the advantage of a 6 speed trans giving my 4 cyl car unexpected pep. My truck would get 20.7 mpg with a 3.08 rear axle if all things were equal. I hope 10 years of tech improvements to save fuel don't boil down to my suggestion back then to offer a lower gear ratio. The 3.08 would run 70 mph at 1700 where mine runs 1900 rpm.
I didn't realize GM offers less than a 3.42 ratio.
I believe the change was made with the intro of the 6 speed. considering the 6 speed has a taller o/d vs the old 4 speed I can't imagine how tall 6th gear would be with a 3.08. It would be completely useless for towing much weight. Well 6th gear would be and maybe even 5th.
I have 3.73 gears with the 6speed in my Expedition and it turns about 1,800 rpm 70 vs. my Suburban with 3.73 and 4speed was around 2k rpm at 70.
The Expedition gets a bit better mileage above 70mph vs the burb, but the new burbs with the 6speed would get better mileage than I currently get. I can get 17.5 or so max at 70mph or so. Drops above that.
I don't think GM offers the 3.73 anymore with the 6speed trans in a 1/2 ton. Ford still does. I think Ford offers a 3.15, 3.31, 3.55 and 3.73. I don't think all ratios are offered across all models and engine choices though.
The newer trucks do have more HP and more weight to offset. My '00 5.3/4speed Suburban would have been about useless with 3.42 gears. It was bad enough towing my boat on hills with 3.73 gears. The 5.4/6speed combo in the Expedition pulls like a diesel in comparison. Better gearing and more torque at lower rpm is more than noticeable. I'd expect the current 5.3 with the 6 speed and 3.42 gears to perform much better than the old 4 speed and 3.73 gears. I know the gas mileage is better. Though Fords (until the current F150) have never been very good on gas. I get 12-13 around town to 15-18 hwy. My Suburban was 12-13 around town and 15-17 hwy.
Most 25 year old Toyota trucks are actually being used *off* road
yeah sure.
Actually, most serious off-roaders and rock crawlers use 15-25 year old Jeeps and Toyotas. The things actually are still often in use for years after they get too old to use on the road.
270hp and a very solid 295 lb-ft. It's a bit spendy, but I bet street prices will be a lot less.
eAssist is a $2000 option now, but I think a diesel would have made more sense, and certainly could return better than 25/36mpg. Jetta TDI gets 30/42. Diesel powertrains usually cost about that much more than gas, too.
Comments
Actually, you don't stand alone there. I'm really not much of a Ford guy, but I'd say the '58 is about my favorite year for 50's Fords. I didn't care for the jutting, bug-eyed headlights of the '57, but I think the '58, despite being more heavy-handed and glittery, actually looks better. Now for '59, I think they got a little TOO heavy and bulky looking, as they were really showing their Thunderbird influence by that time.
I think the '56 Ford is attractive enough, but just doesn't excite me.
But, I'm also weird in that I prefer the '58 Chevy to the '57!
Korean, Chinese, parts from India? yes.
Japan, no.
Well a new Camry is just around the corner. No idea how good it will be, but it's common for sales to drop before a new model comes out, particularly when there is tough competition.
The choices for a competent family sedan are better today than in a long time. I've driven about 3k miles over the past month or so and it seems Hyundai and Kia are doing great. I've seen tons of new Elantras and Sonatas. Cruzes and Malibu too. I've been seeing lots of new Jettas too. The increased sales of the models I mentioned are coming at the expense of Toy/Honda.
The Cam/Cords are outdated, not much incentive to buy one now.
So obviously they did *not* meet all of Toyota's specs.
If an owner of a Tundra has this issue, the LAST thing they care about is where or who actually made the truck frame, they care about the fact that it's a Toyota truck that's causing the headache, that a "quality" name such as Toyota shouldn't be having these issues if they're serious about building full-size trucks, and that they'll be avoiding Toyota in the future for their next truck purchase, and they'll tell their friends and colleagues to do the same thing.
You can blame Dana all you want. The owners won't, they'll look at the name on the tailgate as the responsible party.
One problem I have with owners of show cars of that era, is they so often tack every single accessory on them. I saw an otherwise-beautiful '56 Ford Sunliner a couple weeks ago that was like this.
The only thing I don't like about a '58 Impala is that 'comb' on the rear quarter!
Same for GM. Now your talkin' reality.
Regards,
OW
Think it only affected Japanese brands?
GM had to suspend Colorado production due to parts shortage.
I mentioned the Escape hybrid earlier. Ford also ran out of black paint, the color! Pigment was supplied from Japan.
VW had to phase out rear-view cameras!
Expedition, Super Duty, and Navigator had shortages on parts from Japan:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/02/report-ford-idles-first-plant-due-to-japan-fa- llout/
Heck, even some NYC subway trains sat waiting for Hitachi parts.
More and more and more, there's a whole thread about it:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f229863/0#MSG0
I like the 58's over the 57's any day. Some of the 58 models are in the beautiful category.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards,
OW
I've owned a few GM products that seemed that way;)
Bash away, I could care less.
The companies name was "CTS"! :surprise:
The CTS Corporation, the Indiana-based automotive supplier that makes the gas-pedal assembly at the center of Toyota’s “stop sale” order and recall announcements this week, also produces assemblies for other manufacturers, including Honda and Ford.
Enough said? If the parts suck, Toyota takes the heat...just like GM did to loose their dominance in the US market. Always said Toyota was getting GM Disease!
Regards,
OW
Hyundai.
July fleet sales rose 13% from last July, and fleet deliveries accounted for 26% of GM's total sales for the month.
Is GM tops in fleet?
Brand highlights:
The Cadillac brand's CTS sales were off 19%, SRX was down 27% and the Escalade was down 27%. Year-to-date, Cadillac sales are up 9%, which still lags behind overall industry gains.
The Chevrolet brand sold 149,005 vehicles, up 6%, GM said. Year-to-date, Chevy is up 14%. The hot compact Equinox crossover was up 73%, but the Malibu sedan and Silverado pickup were both down 4.5%.
Buick sales of 16,873 were up 0.4% from last year. Year-to-date Buick sales up 27%, GM said. LaCrosse was down 15%, but the new Regal was up 107% and the Enclave crossover was up 22%.
GMC sales were up 36% to 37,918, and are up 25% year-to-date, GM said. The Terrain compact crossover was up 93%, while the full-size Acadia was up 87%. Sierra pickups rose 5.8%.
Regards,
OW
Trust me, the F150's and Silverados were breaking down more often than once every 7 years. Heck, they might not even last 7 years. My company had a policy of junking the trunks once they hit 150,000 miles regardless of age, which with all the driving going on from site to site and office to office was usually in a lot less than 7 years.
Someone mentioned that Tundra's might run $5K more per piece when new. That is penny wise and pound foolish to decide on that factor! For one, the Tundra is more reliable and won't have down time (except after 7 years when it rusts through according to some). For two, it won't need expensive repairs, tow trucks, and maintenance constantly (to the point where my company hired Enterprise to run the repair and maintenance program of our fleet!). And lastly, when you go to sell it, it'll probably recoup all of that 5,000 dollars if not more on resale value; which by the way, you've already saved because the Ford's Timing Chain broke at 80,000 miles. (so much for chains being better than belts; chains break too (this example was a Project Managers Ford Explorer or Escape, can't remember).
It wasn't until recently that toyota has fallen from being a leader in fuel economy either.
Get the J or the W, helps you to avoid rusty parts from US companies like Dana, and faulty accelerators like CTS. Now that doesn't mean that vehicles assembled in Japan and Germany are 100% foreign parts, but it certainly seems to help.
My car was made in Ingolstadt, Germany, by people who know how to make cars, just like people in NY city can't make salsa, I get my salsa from folks in San Antonio! :P :P
Let's get back to GM, folks...
If you want to talk Toyota, click here:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/14209#MSG14209
2) Chevy Equinox, 17,094
3) Jeep Wrangler, 14,355
4) Chevy Traverse, 14,283
5) Honda CR-V, 13,943
The invincible CR-V is now No. 5....
Geez, a high financing rate for a GM vehicle? When's the last time you heard that one?
What's surprising is the Escape! How many are being sold into fleets?
Wow, your word carries a lot of weight with a lot of people, cause people who rely on trucks for their living are sure avoiding that tundra. :lemon:
edit... just kidding nobodys listening to you... its just coincidence :P
Had Audi decided to conduct business like Dodge/Chrysler, then they'd be getting trounced lately too.
Not only are the companies like night and day, but the products are too!
But it goes beyond that, as the Dealers make a difference in your perception as well. Act like it's normal for parts to break down, must be a Big 3 dealer. Act embarrrassed and fix the problem expeditiously, must be a foreign nameplate's dealer is my impression.
The electrician next to me at work has a 1986 Suburban that he uses every winter to plow snow from his and our commercial driveway. The body has some rust but the frame is sound, and the 350 V-8 keeps plugging away. It's his daily driver.
I don't see too many 25 year old Toyota trucks still on the road.
The #2 vehicle after Jeep is Toyota for serious off-roading. They are cheap to fix, durable, and work well.
yeah sure.
Regards,
OW
Inexcusable and dumb decisions on an entry level near lux model.
Yep, that sounds like it's those bean counters again.
I believe the change was made with the intro of the 6 speed. considering the 6 speed has a taller o/d vs the old 4 speed I can't imagine how tall 6th gear would be with a 3.08. It would be completely useless for towing much weight. Well 6th gear would be and maybe even 5th.
I have 3.73 gears with the 6speed in my Expedition and it turns about 1,800 rpm 70 vs. my Suburban with 3.73 and 4speed was around 2k rpm at 70.
The Expedition gets a bit better mileage above 70mph vs the burb, but the new burbs with the 6speed would get better mileage than I currently get. I can get 17.5 or so max at 70mph or so. Drops above that.
I don't think GM offers the 3.73 anymore with the 6speed trans in a 1/2 ton. Ford still does. I think Ford offers a 3.15, 3.31, 3.55 and 3.73. I don't think all ratios are offered across all models and engine choices though.
The newer trucks do have more HP and more weight to offset. My '00 5.3/4speed Suburban would have been about useless with 3.42 gears. It was bad enough towing my boat on hills with 3.73 gears. The 5.4/6speed combo in the Expedition pulls like a diesel in comparison. Better gearing and more torque at lower rpm is more than noticeable. I'd expect the current 5.3 with the 6 speed and 3.42 gears to perform much better than the old 4 speed and 3.73 gears. I know the gas mileage is better. Though Fords (until the current F150) have never been very good on gas. I get 12-13 around town to 15-18 hwy. My Suburban was 12-13 around town and 15-17 hwy.
Unfortunately it doesn't breakdown the GM and Ford pickups by 1/2 ton rather total truck sales. Note the awesome Tundra sales...
No. 2 is not invincible....
yeah sure.
Actually, most serious off-roaders and rock crawlers use 15-25 year old Jeeps and Toyotas. The things actually are still often in use for years after they get too old to use on the road.
It might be if it includes a third row in '12!
Regards,
OW
Look at Ranger sales. Unbelievable that it outsells the Frontier and Colorado. I'm guessing it can be bought extremely cheap.
What about Year-to-date? One month is not that significant. Edit: #2 per OW, that's what I thought.
Plus, you may have missed it, but the replacement is already being shown in concept form.
Escape sells a ton to fleets so I'd like to see sales to consumers separately.
Have you ever been off road?
There are tons of old 4Runners a Toyota pickups on those trails.
You overlooked Tacoma is the #1 compact picukp...
So you think the "invincible CR-V" "is not invincible"?
Which is it?
You're the only one who called it invincible.
You seem confused.
No car is invincible, ever. All it takes is a bunch of fleet sales and huge incentives and any lame old design can take over the #1 sales spot.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/04/cadillac-confirms-xts-and-ats-coming-next-yea- r/
They went with FWD, but we can't complain given no one was buying the RWD STS. The CTS serves that customer, I suppose.
At least you can get AWD. :shades:
270hp and a very solid 295 lb-ft. It's a bit spendy, but I bet street prices will be a lot less.
eAssist is a $2000 option now, but I think a diesel would have made more sense, and certainly could return better than 25/36mpg. Jetta TDI gets 30/42. Diesel powertrains usually cost about that much more than gas, too.