I know this isn't statistically valid, but here in So Cal I've seen no more than 2 Volts since they came out, yet probably 5-10 Leafs over the same time period. Is that about right for the relative sales volumes?
I drove a CTS-v sedan [ and sat in a CTS-v Coupe ] before finalizing my order for a BMW 335iS Coupe.
I have previously driven a couple of CTS-v sedans, the coupe looks marvelous, and I wanted to try a recent example before I made my final decision. [ I recognize that an M3 would be a closer competitor in several aspects. Not my choice here, however. ]
Though I do have great respect for the CTS-v [ and for GM \ Caddy for bringing these cars to market. In challenging times ] there were still things about the latest CTS-v that I did not find exactly to my liking.
For example: 1 – though instrumented tests show that it is near a full second quicker than my 335iS, it somehow does not feel that quick. 2 – or maybe 1.5 – the CTS-v is quite heavy. The coupe weighs over 4200 pounds. My BMW weighs closer to 3600. The BMW feels [ to me ] much lighter in all responses than the CTS-v. 3 – the GM 6L90 automatic trans. is good, but not nearly as good as the latest seven speed dual clutch auto-manual trans. in the BMW. The 335iS’s DCT is the best such device I have ever driven. Very, very good. 4 – while I do understand the ‘screw the fuel economy’ attitude, the EPA ratings of 12 \ 18 are rather substantially worse than the BMW’s 17 \ 24. [[ aside: I just had an opportunity this weekend to drive on an extended road trip. Approx. 700 miles over 2 driving days. Since I was curious, I filled the tank twice during the trip, both times at approx. half tank remaining. At the 2 fills, the car displayed 28.3 and 28.0. Excel calculates 26.9 and 27.2. Much of the driving was Interstates [ typically posted 70 MPH and maintaining 75-ish ] or divided rural routes [ typically posted 55 and running 65-ish ] – with some ‘in town’ driving as well. Not bad, methinks, not bad at all. ]]
So – for me – the CTS-v was in the running for my $50K plus [ MSRP ] acquisition. But did not quite make the final cut.
But 10 years ago, I could not even have imagined that any Caddy would even be in the running . . . - Ray Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .
I'd certainly rally a fintail over any 1963 Nissan product :shades:
But it's a goofy comparison anyway, cars that don't compete. I was just saying a Juke doesn't really pull off "mean" very well. If anything, it's ugly looks with some kind of performance potential make it a sleeper.
And GM has done no wrong to me! As a result, I reward them with consistent purchases of their excellent Cadillac and Buick automobiles. A new LaCrosse CXS is most likely my next purchase for my wife.
You're inconsistent, though, when you give the Germans a pass when they commit the same offenses (see Benz Christmas commercials with a bow in the other thread).
ZDX is less ugly than an X6.
Lexus has Xmas ads with bows on the RX, just like Mercedes puts bows on the ML.
Same difference. Except to you. Double standard all the way. :lemon:
I think it looks like some kind of weird amphibian. Knowing Nissan's knack for oddball adds, they could make a reptile themed ad for it. Might help sales.
I think it looks like some kind of weird amphibian. Knowing Nissan's knack for oddball adds, they could make a reptile themed ad for it. Might help sales.
The November auto sales data are in and once again GM market share is down from the prior month(s) compared to Chrysler that is soaring. In the past few years GM introduced some interesting cars (Lacrosse, Malibu and Camaro) but since then they have have reverted to predictable and uninspiring cars. If it were not for truck sales the new GM would be on life support.
Add to that the fact that CR has stated that the VOLT won that honor in their magazine before the FIRE DANGER batteries and FIRE DANGER power cords stories had come out.
I would think that having your house burned down would turn that owner satisfaction upside down.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
There's something about that Nissan Puke Juke that reminds me of those old, vulgar Subarus from the 70's... DL or 360 or whatever they called it? I was watching "Smokey and the Bandit III" on Netflix streaming last night (my roommates are still ridiculing me over that), and in one scene there was one of those old Subes, and it immediately made me think a bit of the Juke....
Although, I'll say, after seeing the Juke, the Sube doesn't look so vulgar.
A friend of mine has been looking at Tahoes and Traverse. Ackerson said Chevy is GM's key brand going forward. Lutz said he was giving their cars more appeal. But get this, he said those Chevy trucks he was looking at, even with leather, had manual seatback recline. Herck, even my much cheaper CRV has power seatbacks. So the bean cutters are apparently still controlling GM I guess. They save maybe $30 on a vehicle and make it come off as cheap and chintzy. You have to wonder what other corners they cut that you can't see. Now he's looking at Toyota and Nissan. Strange, because the Acadia I rented had full power seats. Maybe the power recliners are a separate option on Chevy? Sad
I agree. I think the Juke looks totally bizzare. If the AWD came without a CVT, though, I think it would have more of a following, despite its apperance.
Those Subies were weird, but the Juke is in another world. Eating the gecko would be a good one...I can see the Juke as a big bullfrog or something. The old Subaru was called a "GL" or "DL" I think, and a "Leone" in other markets.
The replacement version was one of those Japanese style hardtops. Old lady across the street had one identical to this when I was a kid:
A couple positive points not mentioned here 'til now (geez, imagine that!):
DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors Co. said Thursday its November U.S. sales rose 6.9 percent on strong demand for both cars and trucks. BY THE NUMBERS: Detroit-based GM sold 180,402 vehicles in November, up from 168,739 in the same month last year. TOP SELLER: Sales of the Silverado pickup truck jumped 33.7 percent to 34,251 from 25,619. HOT MODELS: Sales of the Cruze compact car jumped 64.1 percent to 13,238, while sales of the Tahoe SUV jumped 32.8"
and...
Volt sales climb to 1,139, Leaf drops to 672 in November
I might add, although the fire issue in the Volt is not a good thing obviously, they happened days or weeks after the accident...unlike when a gasoline fire can happen in an accident, right now.
And as seen on another forum:
"Earlier this week GM offered loaner cars to all Volt owners until the cause of the fires is found and fixed. So far, Akerson said 16 Volt owners have inquired and only two have taken the loaners."
I personally don't see what all the fuss is about since you have a few hours after a combination of a side impact and rollover potentially triggers a fire to get out of the car. You would think a gasoline fire would not be that patient."
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Ya, that whole Volt fire thing is a bit exaggerated and it looks like they may even go so far as to redesign the entire battery system. Not sure what measures they can take to make it safer but at least they are reacting to the problem...
General Motors Co. may redesign the battery for its Chevrolet Volt to address issues raised after federal officials opened a safety probe into the plug-in electric car, CEO Dan Akerson said today.
And FWIW, that's a good decision. If there is a problem, fix it, no excuses. This is the correct approach. Offer a loaner to appease the nervous ninnies, and if the design can be improved bring them in. They'll buy them back, even, though I don't think GM wants sales going in the opposite direction.
A couple positive points not mentioned here 'til now (geez, imagine that!)
Positive? 7% sales growth YoY November is OK but here is some REALLY positive GM News: Detroit — General Motors Co. says it will unveil four new vehicles at the North American International Auto Show in January, including a new Cadillac that it hopes will take the fight to BMW.
The 2013 Cadillac ATS is an all-new, compact rear-wheel drive sedan, said Mary Barra, president of global product development for GM.
"The ATS is really a crucial part of our Cadillac strategy," she told reporters at an Automotive Press Association luncheon Friday. "It enters one of the biggest segments in the global luxury industry, both from a volume and from an importance perspective. It's a segment, it's well-known, that's dominated by German cars — including the BMW 3-series, the Mercedes C-class and the Audi A4. And we believe we've developed a compelling and convincing new challenger."
The ATS will be built in Lansing at GM's Grand River assembly plant. It is based on an entirely new rear-wheel drive architecture that will also provide the foundation for other future products.
This is not the first time General Motors has challenged the German juggernaut with Cadillac. Its past efforts have enjoyed little success, and BMW continues to dominate the global luxury segment.
But GM says it must find a way to break into that market in order to meet its international growth targets.
BMW's sales were up 14.8 percent in the United States last month — twice as high as General Motors'.
Not to be negative but Caddy sales (as well as Buick) were down again no doubt from less incentives and fleet. Hopefully the ATS will be win for GM.
I have to say GM responded extremely well to this Volt issue. Too bad the Impala thing was not handled the same way. Some Old GM still remains but the Volt recall is an extreme un-GM like bright spot! :surprise:
Or targeted at what I see as lazy or unpleasant design, which just happens to come from some areas more than others. I know it is a crime to not support the "underdog" entrants into established fields even if they are mostly boring to look at and drive, but tough.
Prepare to hear how this is all about the tsunami...you know, the one in Japan that negatively affected all those Japanese automakers whose cars are as American as the Detroit 3 per so many people.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well, you can't deny it has impacted Toyota and Honda greatly. particularly the models with Japan-sourced parts. Plus Toyota is just getting the 2012 Corolla out now, just a LITTLE late.
I'm not complaining, I don't particularly like either's products right now. And tsunami or not they're behind on implementing newer FE powertrain technologies. But the tsunami has to be considered as a factor, not necessarily for GM's good performance, but for Honda and Toyota's bad performance.
Looks like the Camry is taking off again. Over 23k sold in Nov. The Corolla is still ahead of the Cruze. Malibu has really dropped off, it's not even in the top 20 for November. When does production for the new model start? The Prius had a great month with over 15k sold.
VW is on fire, the Jetta was only a few hundred behind the Cruze and the Passat seems to be gaining traction too.
Ford has a few models selling extremely well. The Escape is the head scratcher, over 21k sold. The Explorer was up big almost 13k sold.
GM total cars was only up .7% vs last Nov. vs. an 18.8% increase for Toyota. Toyota sold 19k more cars in Nov. vs. GM. That is only one month, but looking as the past few months, the Cruze hasn't had a 20k unit month in a long time.
F series still holding a lead over the the combined sales of the Silverado/Sierra by 16,621 YTD. Trucks sold well in Nov
YTD sales gain/loss
GM +14.2 F +11 C +25 TM -7.5 HO -5.3 Nis +15.6 HYD +20.6 VW +25.3
Man Mercedes is having a good year up 15.2YTD, but they were up 46.2 in Nov with almost 28k units sold total.
That would be the 2012 Corolla that doesn't exist yet, right?
Credit where credit is due, I don't like the Cruze personally. But it's out there, and Toyota took WAY too long getting the 2012 done. And it's still using a 4 speed auto tranny, and a non-turbo, non-DI engine. GM needed to take a chance and did. Toyota's playing things way too conservative right now to compete.
Comments
I have previously driven a couple of CTS-v sedans, the coupe looks marvelous, and I wanted to try a recent example before I made my final decision. [ I recognize that an M3 would be a closer competitor in several aspects. Not my choice here, however. ]
Though I do have great respect for the CTS-v [ and for GM \ Caddy for bringing these cars to market. In challenging times ] there were still things about the latest CTS-v that I did not find exactly to my liking.
For example:
1 – though instrumented tests show that it is near a full second quicker than my 335iS, it somehow does not feel that quick.
2 – or maybe 1.5 – the CTS-v is quite heavy. The coupe weighs over 4200 pounds. My BMW weighs closer to 3600. The BMW feels [ to me ] much lighter in all responses than the CTS-v.
3 – the GM 6L90 automatic trans. is good, but not nearly as good as the latest seven speed dual clutch auto-manual trans. in the BMW. The 335iS’s DCT is the best such device I have ever driven. Very, very good.
4 – while I do understand the ‘screw the fuel economy’ attitude, the EPA ratings of 12 \ 18 are rather substantially worse than the BMW’s 17 \ 24.
[[ aside: I just had an opportunity this weekend to drive on an extended road trip. Approx. 700 miles over 2 driving days. Since I was curious, I filled the tank twice during the trip, both times at approx. half tank remaining. At the 2 fills, the car displayed 28.3 and 28.0. Excel calculates 26.9 and 27.2.
Much of the driving was Interstates [ typically posted 70 MPH and maintaining 75-ish ] or divided rural routes [ typically posted 55 and running 65-ish ] – with some ‘in town’ driving as well. Not bad, methinks, not bad at all. ]]
So – for me – the CTS-v was in the running for my $50K plus [ MSRP ] acquisition. But did not quite make the final cut.
But 10 years ago, I could not even have imagined that any Caddy would even be in the running . . .
- Ray
Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .
But it's a goofy comparison anyway, cars that don't compete. I was just saying a Juke doesn't really pull off "mean" very well. If anything, it's ugly looks with some kind of performance potential make it a sleeper.
Buick needs the sales, down 7% in November in an otherwise good sales month.
Chrysler was up 45%, Ford 12% and GM 7% overall.
ZDX is less ugly than an X6.
Lexus has Xmas ads with bows on the RX, just like Mercedes puts bows on the ML.
Same difference. Except to you. Double standard all the way. :lemon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPrOTLxa2fg
Those 2 cars are about as different as 2 vehicles can get, in every way.
No, but it really aces silly looking...
Eh, Christmas bows have been done to death! :P
To compare the Santa themed bow ad to the buy off your materialistic wife themed bow ad is a little apples to oranges, IMHO.
No difference, some just don't like seeing their boring underdogs being criticized.
LOL, maybe it will eat a certain gecko!
X6, Crosstour, ZDX and such are all pretty hideous IMO.
November 2011 Auto Sales By Automaker
I would think that having your house burned down would turn that owner satisfaction upside down.
PukeJuke that reminds me of those old, vulgar Subarus from the 70's... DL or 360 or whatever they called it? I was watching "Smokey and the Bandit III" on Netflix streaming last night (my roommates are still ridiculing me over that), and in one scene there was one of those old Subes, and it immediately made me think a bit of the Juke....Although, I'll say, after seeing the Juke, the Sube doesn't look so vulgar.
The replacement version was one of those Japanese style hardtops. Old lady across the street had one identical to this when I was a kid:
Let's all bow our heads in prayer, and have a moment of silence....
DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors Co. said Thursday its November U.S. sales rose 6.9 percent on strong demand for both cars and trucks.
BY THE NUMBERS: Detroit-based GM sold 180,402 vehicles in November, up from 168,739 in the same month last year.
TOP SELLER: Sales of the Silverado pickup truck jumped 33.7 percent to 34,251 from 25,619.
HOT MODELS: Sales of the Cruze compact car jumped 64.1 percent to 13,238, while sales of the Tahoe SUV jumped 32.8"
and...
Volt sales climb to 1,139, Leaf drops to 672 in November
I might add, although the fire issue in the Volt is not a good thing obviously, they happened days or weeks after the accident...unlike when a gasoline fire can happen in an accident, right now.
And as seen on another forum:
"Earlier this week GM offered loaner cars to all Volt owners until the cause of the fires is found and fixed. So far, Akerson said 16 Volt owners have inquired and only two have taken the loaners."
I personally don't see what all the fuss is about since you have a few hours after a combination of a side impact and rollover potentially triggers a fire to get out of the car. You would think a gasoline fire would not be that patient."
the Tahoe SUV jumped 32.8"
I knew the Tahoe had good ground clearance, but jumping up 2 and half feet is quite impressive.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111201/OEM05/111209988/1186-
And FWIW, that's a good decision. If there is a problem, fix it, no excuses. This is the correct approach. Offer a loaner to appease the nervous ninnies, and if the design can be improved bring them in. They'll buy them back, even, though I don't think GM wants sales going in the opposite direction.
Positive? 7% sales growth YoY November is OK but here is some REALLY positive GM News:
Detroit — General Motors Co. says it will unveil four new vehicles at the North American International Auto Show in January, including a new Cadillac that it hopes will take the fight to BMW.
The 2013 Cadillac ATS is an all-new, compact rear-wheel drive sedan, said Mary Barra, president of global product development for GM.
"The ATS is really a crucial part of our Cadillac strategy," she told reporters at an Automotive Press Association luncheon Friday. "It enters one of the biggest segments in the global luxury industry, both from a volume and from an importance perspective. It's a segment, it's well-known, that's dominated by German cars — including the BMW 3-series, the Mercedes C-class and the Audi A4. And we believe we've developed a compelling and convincing new challenger."
The ATS will be built in Lansing at GM's Grand River assembly plant. It is based on an entirely new rear-wheel drive architecture that will also provide the foundation for other future products.
This is not the first time General Motors has challenged the German juggernaut with Cadillac. Its past efforts have enjoyed little success, and BMW continues to dominate the global luxury segment.
But GM says it must find a way to break into that market in order to meet its international growth targets.
BMW's sales were up 14.8 percent in the United States last month — twice as high as General Motors'.
Not to be negative but Caddy sales (as well as Buick) were down again no doubt from less incentives and fleet. Hopefully the ATS will be win for GM.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Handsome outside, too.
I'd rather have a CTS-V, but as a long-legged trip vehicle this would be hard to beat.
Automaker YTD-2011 YTD-2010 Gain/lose
GM 19.7% 19.0% +0.7
Ford 16.8% 16.7% +0.1
Chrysler 10.7% 9.4% +1.3
Toyota 12.7% 15.2% -2.5
Honda 9.0% 10.5% -1.5
Nissan 8.2% 7.8% +0.4
Source: link title
I'm not complaining, I don't particularly like either's products right now. And tsunami or not they're behind on implementing newer FE powertrain technologies. But the tsunami has to be considered as a factor, not necessarily for GM's good performance, but for Honda and Toyota's bad performance.
Yes! Come on Mitsubishi, my friends!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
VW is on fire, the Jetta was only a few hundred behind the Cruze and the Passat seems to be gaining traction too.
Ford has a few models selling extremely well. The Escape is the head scratcher, over 21k sold. The Explorer was up big almost 13k sold.
GM total cars was only up .7% vs last Nov. vs. an 18.8% increase for Toyota. Toyota sold 19k more cars in Nov. vs. GM. That is only one month, but looking as the past few months, the Cruze hasn't had a 20k unit month in a long time.
F series still holding a lead over the the combined sales of the Silverado/Sierra by 16,621 YTD. Trucks sold well in Nov
YTD sales gain/loss
GM +14.2
F +11
C +25
TM -7.5
HO -5.3
Nis +15.6
HYD +20.6
VW +25.3
Man Mercedes is having a good year up 15.2YTD, but they were up 46.2 in Nov with almost 28k units sold total.
But GM sold 62k more trucks than Toyota in Nov. Different business model.
True, GM's business model still requires more incentives than any other manufacturer.
That would be the 2012 Corolla that doesn't exist yet, right?
Credit where credit is due, I don't like the Cruze personally. But it's out there, and Toyota took WAY too long getting the 2012 done. And it's still using a 4 speed auto tranny, and a non-turbo, non-DI engine. GM needed to take a chance and did. Toyota's playing things way too conservative right now to compete.
GM's incentive is 9.8% of the transaction price. It's about the same as Toyota's 9.7% and Honda's 9.3%. See my previous post.
Incentives
And they make more profit than the Japanese.
Here's the data download link.
1 year out of the past 20! I don't trust GM's non-GAAP numbers and it appears neither do most investors.
Just YTD numbers is all I quoted.