When an automaker is forced to issue a recall, the defective part or feature is generally the fault of the automaker or of an OEM supplier it contracted to. In the case of the Toyota Tacoma – part of a 110,000-unit recall in 2009 – the problem appears to have been traced back to the supplier. And now the supplier is forced to pay for its mistakes.
As is the case with most anything that goes wrong in a car...there are tons of supplier-produced parts in any car, no matter who makes it. Fact is, Dana apparently built the frame to Toyota specs. And nobody else's frame did that. Just the facts. Apparently passed Toyota's QC standards when new.
The customers bought a Toyota...not a Dana. The manufacturer is ultimately responsible, of course.
GM's intermediate steering shaft issues were because of a supplier, and GM sued that supplier. I doubt anybody (especially anybody on this board, sheesh) is saying, "Hey, my Bendix (or whomever, just using that name as an example) steering column went bad."
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Hey, due to our open trade policies, I'm aware it's a world market (although I'm not crazy about that). I have to believe some folks in Detroit had something to do with the way it is being built and sold here. It's the only car that size built in the 'States...and despite whatever attempts someone will no doubt make here, that's a good thing.
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GM's intermediate steering shaft issues were because of a supplier, and GM sued that supplier. I doubt anybody (especially anybody on this board, sheesh) is saying, "Hey, my Bendix (or whomever, just using that name as an example) steering column went bad."
I don't dispute that. My question is why was it a problem for nearly 10 years when the problem was know as early as '00. Granted it's not a serious problem, but more of an annoyance. In my case, it was just one of many issues I've had with GM products. If the issues were limited to the ISS, I would be happy.
As for as the Tacoma frame issue, while that's a serious problem, it doesn't change the fact the Tacoma is by far the best compact truck available and still owns the market. A friend of mine has an 06 and it's an impressive truck. When ever I'm in it, it feels impressively tight and well built. An obvious contrast to my previous Suburban or my Expedition.
I sure wouldn't want a Ranger or Colorado over it and looking at sales, I'm not alone. The frame issue wouldn't scare me one bit.
GM's intermediate steering shaft issues were because of a supplier, and GM sued that supplier. I doubt anybody (especially anybody on this board, sheesh) is saying, "Hey, my Bendix (or whomever, just using that name as an example) steering column went bad."
Well, I have to confess that when the a/c compressor on my 2000 Intrepid seized up, I took a little perverse pleasure in announcing that it was a Japanese part that failed, on that Canadian car built by a German-owned company! :P
Although to be honest, it seized up because I let it run low on freon. And I KNEW it was low on freon. I was just trying to hold off until hot weather arrived, but it seized up in the winter, while I was running the defroster.
Although to be honest, it seized up because I let it run low on freon. And I KNEW it was low on freon. I was just trying to hold off until hot weather arrived, but it seized up in the winter, while I was running the defroster.
I hate it when that happens. Save a little here only to spend a bunch later. Unfortunately those compressors are expensive no matter the vehicle. I spent over $1200 to replace on in my Suburban and it only had 60k miles on it or so. That really hit hard as the previous year I had to pay for a trans rebuild. We were living in Kansas at the time, so no A/C on 110 degree days is not an option.
Andre, your Intrepid had the 2.7 right? Was it one of the 2.7s susceptible to oil sludge?
Yeah, I had the 2.7 and, from what I've heard, mine does fall in that range when they were susceptible to sludging. I think it was actually worse in cars like the Sebring and Stratus, where the 2.7 was shoehorned into a tighter space, and didn't "breathe" as well. IIRC, there was also some issue with the way the cooling system was routed on the transverse 2.7's that made them worse than the Intrepid/Concorde, which was mounted fore/aft.
That being said, I've heard that to get a 2.7 to sludge, it's pretty much like the Toyota 3.0. You have to go a really long time between oil changes, let it run low, overheat it, etc. I also got pretty bad with the oil changes on mine. I really wanted to keep it to every 3,000 miles, but started stretching it out in later years, and I think over the 10 years and 150,000 miles I had that car, it averaged one oil change every 4500 miles or so. It also ran low on occasion, but never enough to make the oil light come on. Now, that light DID come on when the car was about 4 years old, but was fixed under a TSB, and it had nothing to do with actual oil pressure.
I probably let it get down to 3 quarts every once in awhile. Never let it overheat, though.
I also should confess that I've been a little lax with changing the oil on the Park Ave. I've been stretching it out to around 4500-5000 miles, but just checking frequently to make sure it doesn't run low.
A good friend of mine has a Tacoma he bought new in '05. He has over 100K on it now and likes it. It has needed an oxygen sensor for a long time; he's too cheap to fix it! It did need tie rods or tie rod ends, I can't remember which, at around 100K. Not a huge thing, but something I've never replaced on a single car I've ever owned.
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It did need tie rods or tie rod ends, I can't remember which, at around 100K. Not a huge thing, but something I've never replaced on a single car I've ever owned.
Unfortunately, my 2000 Park Ave needed tie rods (or the ends, can't remember which now) replaced around the 75,000 mile mark, back in September. Along with the swaybar links. :sick:
Unfortunately, my 2000 Park Ave needed tie rods (or the ends, can't remember which now) replaced around the 75,000 mile mark, back in September. Along with the swaybar links. :sick:
That's because a P/A floats so much going down the road all suspension components probably should use high speed needle roller bearings;)
I had to have the rear stabilizer links replaced on the Suburban at around 70k. My FIL has gone through two sets on his Tahoe. Plus I had to have a pitman arm replaced on the Suburban at 50k or so. I swear the car Gods don't like me.
I guess when someone makes a statement like, "GM put Cavalier steering wheels in Corvettes", when discussing Corvette product planning going on, and it's on a world-wide information board, it's not an accurate statement. I'm for dotting the 'i's' and crossing the 't''s, information-wise, as best as one can
Don't get me wrong, I'm o.k. with that but the main point was the sharing and use of the wheel. It's a chicken versus egg thing.
For me, I've been in the auto industry too long and the hobby longer than that so that I know what someone means and can make the differentiation. And even if I wasn't I'd still know. At the end of the day the vehicles used the same wheel and that was the point, the same wheel used in the low-rent car was used in the supposed high-rent one, be it Cavalier, Vega or Camaro.
And you'd be surprised if you actually sat in vehicle product & production planning the type of ideas that come up and which vehicles are picked over, plucked and plundered over for parts to use in another vehicle, Corvette included. :surprise:
I guess if a Supra wheel was changed, and the old wheel put in a Corolla, most people would say, "Wow, the Corolla has the old Supra's wheel", instead of "Geez, the Supra and Corolla shared steering wheels, bad on the Supra". I think you know that.
But I also get your point.
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I had to have the rear stabilizer links replaced on the Suburban at around 70k. My FIL has gone through two sets on his Tahoe. Plus I had to have a pitman arm replaced on the Suburban at 50k or so. I swear the car Gods don't like me.
Even though vehicles are a lot better in many ways these days, I wonder if they're getting cheaper in the suspension department? For example, I don't remember my Mom's '80 Malibu, which she bought new, gave to me when I got my license, and then I got rid of at 100,000 miles, ever needing front suspension work. It ended up needing new axle shafts around the 80,000 mile mark, though.
With my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, bought new and given to me, it needed new upper ball joints around 144,000 miles, but that was the first suspension repair. It did need a lot of other work around 157K though.
Same with my '85 Silverado, that Granddad bought new. Now to be fair, it DOES need a lot of suspension work, but it's also never had any. 137,000 miles, and it's not *too* difficult to keep it between the painted lines on the road! :P
Thinking back, I don't remember my '89 Gran Fury ever needing suspension work. I bought it at 73000, got rid of it at 118000. It had other issues in that timeline, but suspension wasn't one of them. Can't vouch for its earlier years, though.
I'll have to ask my uncle if he's had any suspension work done on his '97 Silverado. He might not remember though, and isn't so great at keeping receipts. All I remember is the two transmissions, water pump, fuel pump, belt tensioner, a couple of other coolant leaks, and the fact that it STILL smells of antifreeze from time to time.
I don't know. Seems like back then ball joints and tie rods were a constant issue.
I'm at 95k on the Expedition and have needed zero suspension work so far and everything still feels tight. No slop in the steering or suspension noises etc.
My FIL's Tahoe is a '95 or so. I think he has 170k miles on it now. It's been fairly reliable, but has certainly had the typical fuel pump problems, and the starter and alternator have bee replaced lately. he's gone through stabilizer links, and other front end parts. Not a big deal on a vehicle of that age and mileage.
I just can't keep a vehicle that long, to many things start to degrade. My FIL's Tahoe is horrid to drive. It vibrates, shakes, the steering has a ton of play and brakes are down right scary. The interior is falling apart. He had to fabricate a piece of metal to replace a part in the drivers seat to keep the back of the drivers seat from just falling backwards. The leather is ripped and faded etc.
My MIL has an 05 Camry v6 which they put all the miles on (my MIL has a 90 mile round trip commute into downtown Chicago). At 160k it's only had one failure being a front hub. It's still very quiet and smooth. No rips in the seats etc. Impressive considering the abuse it endures on the roads she drives on.
They keep vehicles until they die, so I'm curious to see what finally starts to fail on the Camry. It's got to quit at some point. Her previous Saturn SL2 was literally falling apart at 120k while enduring the same commute. It burned oil, leaked fluids from the engine, trans, and power steering. I'd guess another Toyota will be in their driveway.
Not too bad of a put down of Chevy. '10 Malibu LS 22,300 32 mpg '10 Malibu LT 24,400 33 mpg by adding a 6 spd '13 Malibu Eco 25,995 37 mpg by adding electric motor, DGI, motorized front grille, low rolling resistance tires, engine shut off, 17 in rims, fan cooled batteries,......... In summer on flat windless day, I can get 37 from my '10 LT at 70 mph.
'12 Camry Hybrid 26,995? far better than 37?
The article is capped off by saying that for $1000 more you can get a full Hybrid Camry with "far more efficient" gas mileage. How to rate more effifient than 37: slightly more...39 a fair amount more...41 far more....44 now to fact check the '12 Camry hybrid mpgs on epa site......39 hwy what the heck??????? 39 is 'far more' efficient than 37? Typical anti Chev leaning conclusions
now to fact check the '12 Camry hybrid mpgs on epa site......39 hwy what the heck??????? 39 is 'far more' efficient than 37? Typical anti Chev leaning conclusions
No, but 43 city vs. 25 city is a huge difference. Where do most people drive? It's fairly well known that the hybrids advantages aren't with hwy driving. Just look at a Volt. It probably would struggle to get the mileage of the Malibu Eco on a several hundred mile hwy trip.
Plus from everything I've read, a Hybrid Fusion or Camry has quite bit better acceleration too. Every article about the Malibu has commented on lack of power under certain situations. You don't read that about a Camry or Fusion hybrid. Plus a 4cyl Camry non hybrid is rated at the same city mileage as the Malibu. While also offering much better acceleration.
My wife and I live in a rural area and rarely do any vehicles we own get their hwy ratings. I find the city ratings a far better guide. Those numbers I can routinely achieve.
Sure I've gotten 20mpg from the Expedition, but that's a rare occasion under ideal conditions. Have gotten 32 or so from the Taurus too. But that's very rare.
Most of the various vehicles we've had would return mileage between the epa city/hwy numbers no matter the make. So which would likely have a much better avg. for the avg driver. Car A) 25/37 31avg or B)43/39 41avg.
Ya know, I'm amazed that no one has popped in to say how impressive GM is in that they put a Corvette steering wheel on that little Cavalier....
Years ago, I worked with a guy who said he once had a Corvette, but he got mad and sold it when GM started putting the Corvette engine in a bunch of other cars. I think he was referring to the old LT-1 350, which started as a Corvette engine, but found its way into the Camaro, Trans Am, and the Caprice/Roadmaster/Fleetwood/Impala SS?
If it's any consolation, it was de-tuned in those other cars. And by the time the rest got the LT-1, maybe the Corvette had moved on to the LS-1? I dunno, I get all those letters and numbers mixed up!
Remember on that other board, where a certain person continued to pound that a 250 hp 327 V8 in a Corvette was a special engine, with special block and heads, and was a different engine than a 250 hp 327 V8 in the same year's, say, Biscayne? The Chevy parts book blew that theory out of the water.
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>GM's intermediate steering shaft issues were because of a supplier, and GM sued that supplier. I doubt anybody (especially anybody on this board, sheesh) is saying, "Hey, my Bendix (or whomever, just using that name as an example) steering column went bad."
It shows how desperate the company is to either get these trucks off the road or re-framed to avoid resulting lawsuits and bad publicity. The bought back trucks go directly to the crusher.
Nice dishonest spin there.
How about Toyota actually stands behind their products, and the few models and specific factory outputs that go defected get taken care of in a manner that makes the customer feel like the company actually cares about their quality? I like to see a manufacturer stand behind products they make, whether it's letters extending warranties to 10 years and 120,000 miles like Audi, replacing transmissions for free as goodwill like Honda, or Toyota replacing frames and or paying a multiplier over the book value to take the defect away from you.
Dodge never extended any of my warranties. Dodge never paid for any goodwill past a battery that was already a compromise to the whole repair bill. Dodge never made me an offer to buy back their lemon. Dodge never offered to fix any problems for free once day 365X3 +1 hits! and/or mile 36,001 hits the odometer, whichever comes first.
You either stand behind the stuff you make (even on the ultra rare occassion something goes defective), or you don't (because they routinely go defected and you'd go bankrupt covering all that). But either way, the funny thing is, you'll go bankrupt anyway, just as Chrysler and GM did, only with pissed off burned customers rather than the former more respectable option.
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Seems like the Neon was death from a thousand cuts, while Vega was death from a few large stab wounds.
I haven't heard it put that way before, but I'd say the death from a Neon was more like death from a hundred deep gashes and lacerations (deep cuts). A few lost limbs along the way (head gasket, tranny, A/C system).
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Ahhh frameless glass..... makes me think of (with the way Chrysler implemented it):
1) cool unique styling idea, but.... 2) easy to injure and stab your ribs on the glass edges, OUCH! 3) let some water and soap suds enter the rubber seals and seams of the inside part of the glass when you got it washed. 4) let in wind noise 5) sometimes whistled wind noise
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I've talked to some people who live in the "country" far from civilized culture in the US (midwest for example). No place in CA really qualifies as "country" or far enough from big cities in my view, but what I found out is this:
1) They don't disagree that american cars suck. 2) They are scared of foreign cars, because, despite their tremendous reliability for never breaking down, you can't find a competent mechanic in some parts of the US for a foreign car. 3) Big 3 mechanics are as numerous as BofA and McDonald's.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
You either stand behind the stuff you make (even on the ultra rare occassion something goes defective), or you don't (because they routinely go defected and you'd go bankrupt covering all that). But either way, the funny thing is, you'll go bankrupt anyway, just as Chrysler and GM did, only with pissed off burned customers rather than the former more respectable option.
>I've talked to some people who live in the "country" far from civilized culture in the US (midwest for example).
Now that's a bunch of blabber from an arrogant position! :shades:
>1) They don't disagree that american cars suck.
>2) They are scared of foreign cars, because, despite their tremendous reliability for never breaking down, you can't find a competent mechanic in some parts of the US for a foreign car.
ROFLMAO
>3) Big 3 mechanics are as numerous as BofA and McDonald's.
Ditto first comment.
This stuff belongs in the foreign car discussions.
Many more than 500,000 obviously, but as an American, plus the fact we didn't start the war, and it affected people in my close-knit small hometown (35 casualties in a town of under 10,000), that matters more to me personally. Maybe it doesn't to you. I have a hunch this will get deleted by Steve. But you must admit, that was a dopey comment by that unnamed poster. Good grief.
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Hey, don't drag me into this. I'm still counting the mechanics in my area and I'm about to run out of fingers. On one hand. :P
My in-laws drove a Bimmer in Nevada before moving back here (the UP part of the Midwest) a decade ago. They sold it and got a Buick. I think there are 3 mechanics near me plus some helpers. And a couple of body work guys. Big 3 vehicles outnumber foreign cars by 99 to 1 I bet.
They are scared of foreign cars, because, despite their tremendous reliability for never breaking down, you can't find a competent mechanic in some parts of the US for a foreign car.
Apparently there are many internet posters that are not aware of the fact that foreign cars never break down
Among these ignorant people who have experienced:
Premature Engine Failures in Mazda 6, CX-7, and RX-8, Subaru 2.5L, Honda Civics, Toyota Tundras, Nissan 2.4L, numerous VW's and yes even BMW and Porsche!
Transmission failure in many Hondas, mostly Odyssey. CVT failure in Nissans and Audis.
Excessive oil consumption in Hondas, Toyotas, VW's Mazda and Nissan.
How about rust? Hyundai and Kia early 2000's subrame failure, Nissan Altima rusting floorboards, Mazda and Subaru Paint problems, not to mention the Toyota rusted truck frames.
Yeah, vent windows. Surviving smokers should be thrilled (except I seriously doubt it opens).
Fezo, there's another Outback across the street. Newer, but lots more rust than mine. The DAV down the block has a Kia (think it's his wife's though). There's a Prius next door but it's just visiting the neighbors. One couple we know has a Pilot and there's an Element a block away. There's one Eclipse that you can hear from blocks away.
But mostly it's big honking Big 3 pickups, and the majority of the rest are Big 3 SUVs and sedans.
The Pilot owner drives a couple of hours for warranty service. Well, that's mostly true for everyone around here.
Comments
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1112_2013_chevrolet_malibu_eco_drive- n/index.html
So, circle, what say you about the Michigan-built Sonic's 17-day inventory?
Uh... you realize the Sonic was designed in Korea, right?
They also build them there and export them to Australia as the Holden Barina.
The T200 was our first gen Aveo, the T250 was the 2nd gen Aveo, and the T300 is the 3rd gen, with a new name here - Sonic.
Spark was designed in Korea, and will be built there too.
Makes total sense for GM to design their small cars there, and lately it's working.
ToyotaDana pickup frame replaced? I read that was a $13,000 job.Corrected that for you, an American supplier BTW. Made in the good ol' USA.
They also paid for them:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/18/report-dana-coughs-up-25m-to-toyota-over-rust- y-tacoma-frames/
Autoblog pulls no punches:
When an automaker is forced to issue a recall, the defective part or feature is generally the fault of the automaker or of an OEM supplier it contracted to. In the case of the Toyota Tacoma – part of a 110,000-unit recall in 2009 – the problem appears to have been traced back to the supplier. And now the supplier is forced to pay for its mistakes.
Enough mud slinging at Toyota in a GM thread, ok?
The customers bought a Toyota...not a Dana. The manufacturer is ultimately responsible, of course.
GM's intermediate steering shaft issues were because of a supplier, and GM sued that supplier. I doubt anybody (especially anybody on this board, sheesh) is saying, "Hey, my Bendix (or whomever, just using that name as an example) steering column went bad."
I don't dispute that. My question is why was it a problem for nearly 10 years when the problem was know as early as '00. Granted it's not a serious problem, but more of an annoyance. In my case, it was just one of many issues I've had with GM products. If the issues were limited to the ISS, I would be happy.
As for as the Tacoma frame issue, while that's a serious problem, it doesn't change the fact the Tacoma is by far the best compact truck available and still owns the market. A friend of mine has an 06 and it's an impressive truck. When ever I'm in it, it feels impressively tight and well built. An obvious contrast to my previous Suburban or my Expedition.
I sure wouldn't want a Ranger or Colorado over it and looking at sales, I'm not alone. The frame issue wouldn't scare me one bit.
Well, I have to confess that when the a/c compressor on my 2000 Intrepid seized up, I took a little perverse pleasure in announcing that it was a Japanese part that failed, on that Canadian car built by a German-owned company! :P
Although to be honest, it seized up because I let it run low on freon. And I KNEW it was low on freon. I was just trying to hold off until hot weather arrived, but it seized up in the winter, while I was running the defroster.
I hate it when that happens. Save a little here only to spend a bunch later. Unfortunately those compressors are expensive no matter the vehicle. I spent over $1200 to replace on in my Suburban and it only had 60k miles on it or so. That really hit hard as the previous year I had to pay for a trans rebuild. We were living in Kansas at the time, so no A/C on 110 degree days is not an option.
Yeah, I had the 2.7 and, from what I've heard, mine does fall in that range when they were susceptible to sludging. I think it was actually worse in cars like the Sebring and Stratus, where the 2.7 was shoehorned into a tighter space, and didn't "breathe" as well. IIRC, there was also some issue with the way the cooling system was routed on the transverse 2.7's that made them worse than the Intrepid/Concorde, which was mounted fore/aft.
That being said, I've heard that to get a 2.7 to sludge, it's pretty much like the Toyota 3.0. You have to go a really long time between oil changes, let it run low, overheat it, etc. I also got pretty bad with the oil changes on mine. I really wanted to keep it to every 3,000 miles, but started stretching it out in later years, and I think over the 10 years and 150,000 miles I had that car, it averaged one oil change every 4500 miles or so. It also ran low on occasion, but never enough to make the oil light come on. Now, that light DID come on when the car was about 4 years old, but was fixed under a TSB, and it had nothing to do with actual oil pressure.
I probably let it get down to 3 quarts every once in awhile. Never let it overheat, though.
I also should confess that I've been a little lax with changing the oil on the Park Ave. I've been stretching it out to around 4500-5000 miles, but just checking frequently to make sure it doesn't run low.
Unfortunately, my 2000 Park Ave needed tie rods (or the ends, can't remember which now) replaced around the 75,000 mile mark, back in September. Along with the swaybar links. :sick:
That's because a P/A floats so much going down the road all suspension components probably should use high speed needle roller bearings;)
I had to have the rear stabilizer links replaced on the Suburban at around 70k. My FIL has gone through two sets on his Tahoe. Plus I had to have a pitman arm replaced on the Suburban at 50k or so. I swear the car Gods don't like me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm o.k. with that but the main point was the sharing and use of the wheel. It's a chicken versus egg thing.
For me, I've been in the auto industry too long and the hobby longer than that so that I know what someone means and can make the differentiation. And even if I wasn't I'd still know. At the end of the day the vehicles used the same wheel and that was the point, the same wheel used in the low-rent car was used in the supposed high-rent one, be it Cavalier, Vega or Camaro.
And you'd be surprised if you actually sat in vehicle product & production planning the type of ideas that come up and which vehicles are picked over, plucked and plundered over for parts to use in another vehicle, Corvette included. :surprise:
Have a good one.
That's right.
I guess if a Supra wheel was changed, and the old wheel put in a Corolla, most people would say, "Wow, the Corolla has the old Supra's wheel", instead of "Geez, the Supra and Corolla shared steering wheels, bad on the Supra". I think you know that.
But I also get your point.
Even though vehicles are a lot better in many ways these days, I wonder if they're getting cheaper in the suspension department? For example, I don't remember my Mom's '80 Malibu, which she bought new, gave to me when I got my license, and then I got rid of at 100,000 miles, ever needing front suspension work. It ended up needing new axle shafts around the 80,000 mile mark, though.
With my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, bought new and given to me, it needed new upper ball joints around 144,000 miles, but that was the first suspension repair. It did need a lot of other work around 157K though.
Same with my '85 Silverado, that Granddad bought new. Now to be fair, it DOES need a lot of suspension work, but it's also never had any. 137,000 miles, and it's not *too* difficult to keep it between the painted lines on the road! :P
Thinking back, I don't remember my '89 Gran Fury ever needing suspension work. I bought it at 73000, got rid of it at 118000. It had other issues in that timeline, but suspension wasn't one of them. Can't vouch for its earlier years, though.
I'll have to ask my uncle if he's had any suspension work done on his '97 Silverado. He might not remember though, and isn't so great at keeping receipts. All I remember is the two transmissions, water pump, fuel pump, belt tensioner, a couple of other coolant leaks, and the fact that it STILL smells of antifreeze from time to time.
I'm at 95k on the Expedition and have needed zero suspension work so far and everything still feels tight. No slop in the steering or suspension noises etc.
My FIL's Tahoe is a '95 or so. I think he has 170k miles on it now. It's been fairly reliable, but has certainly had the typical fuel pump problems, and the starter and alternator have bee replaced lately. he's gone through stabilizer links, and other front end parts. Not a big deal on a vehicle of that age and mileage.
I just can't keep a vehicle that long, to many things start to degrade. My FIL's Tahoe is horrid to drive. It vibrates, shakes, the steering has a ton of play and brakes are down right scary. The interior is falling apart. He had to fabricate a piece of metal to replace a part in the drivers seat to keep the back of the drivers seat from just falling backwards. The leather is ripped and faded etc.
My MIL has an 05 Camry v6 which they put all the miles on (my MIL has a 90 mile round trip commute into downtown Chicago). At 160k it's only had one failure being a front hub. It's still very quiet and smooth. No rips in the seats etc. Impressive considering the abuse it endures on the roads she drives on.
They keep vehicles until they die, so I'm curious to see what finally starts to fail on the Camry. It's got to quit at some point. Her previous Saturn SL2 was literally falling apart at 120k while enduring the same commute. It burned oil, leaked fluids from the engine, trans, and power steering. I'd guess another Toyota will be in their driveway.
'10 Malibu LS 22,300 32 mpg
'10 Malibu LT 24,400 33 mpg by adding a 6 spd
'13 Malibu Eco 25,995 37 mpg by adding electric motor, DGI, motorized front grille, low rolling resistance tires, engine shut off, 17 in rims, fan cooled batteries,.........
In summer on flat windless day, I can get 37 from my '10 LT at 70 mph.
'12 Camry Hybrid 26,995? far better than 37?
The article is capped off by saying that for $1000 more you can get a full Hybrid Camry with "far more efficient" gas mileage.
How to rate more effifient than 37:
slightly more...39
a fair amount more...41
far more....44
now to fact check the '12 Camry hybrid mpgs on epa site......39 hwy
what the heck??????? 39 is 'far more' efficient than 37?
Typical anti Chev leaning conclusions
what the heck??????? 39 is 'far more' efficient than 37?
Typical anti Chev leaning conclusions
No, but 43 city vs. 25 city is a huge difference. Where do most people drive? It's fairly well known that the hybrids advantages aren't with hwy driving. Just look at a Volt. It probably would struggle to get the mileage of the Malibu Eco on a several hundred mile hwy trip.
Plus from everything I've read, a Hybrid Fusion or Camry has quite bit better acceleration too. Every article about the Malibu has commented on lack of power under certain situations. You don't read that about a Camry or Fusion hybrid. Plus a 4cyl Camry non hybrid is rated at the same city mileage as the Malibu. While also offering much better acceleration.
My wife and I live in a rural area and rarely do any vehicles we own get their hwy ratings. I find the city ratings a far better guide. Those numbers I can routinely achieve.
Sure I've gotten 20mpg from the Expedition, but that's a rare occasion under ideal conditions. Have gotten 32 or so from the Taurus too. But that's very rare.
Most of the various vehicles we've had would return mileage between the epa city/hwy numbers no matter the make. So which would likely have a much better avg. for the avg driver. Car A) 25/37 31avg or B)43/39 41avg.
That's OK. We don't like you either. :P
Ya know, I'm amazed that no one has popped in to say how impressive GM is in that they put a Corvette steering wheel on that little Cavalier....
Years ago, I worked with a guy who said he once had a Corvette, but he got mad and sold it when GM started putting the Corvette engine in a bunch of other cars. I think he was referring to the old LT-1 350, which started as a Corvette engine, but found its way into the Camaro, Trans Am, and the Caprice/Roadmaster/Fleetwood/Impala SS?
If it's any consolation, it was de-tuned in those other cars. And by the time the rest got the LT-1, maybe the Corvette had moved on to the LS-1? I dunno, I get all those letters and numbers mixed up!
X2
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Nice dishonest spin there.
How about Toyota actually stands behind their products, and the few models and specific factory outputs that go defected get taken care of in a manner that makes the customer feel like the company actually cares about their quality? I like to see a manufacturer stand behind products they make, whether it's letters extending warranties to 10 years and 120,000 miles like Audi, replacing transmissions for free as goodwill like Honda, or Toyota replacing frames and or paying a multiplier over the book value to take the defect away from you.
Dodge never extended any of my warranties. Dodge never paid for any goodwill past a battery that was already a compromise to the whole repair bill. Dodge never made me an offer to buy back their lemon. Dodge never offered to fix any problems for free once day 365X3 +1 hits! and/or mile 36,001 hits the odometer, whichever comes first.
You either stand behind the stuff you make (even on the ultra rare occassion something goes defective), or you don't (because they routinely go defected and you'd go bankrupt covering all that). But either way, the funny thing is, you'll go bankrupt anyway, just as Chrysler and GM did, only with pissed off burned customers rather than the former more respectable option.
I haven't heard it put that way before, but I'd say the death from a Neon was more like death from a hundred deep gashes and lacerations (deep cuts). A few lost limbs along the way (head gasket, tranny, A/C system).
I'm sure it did. Likely the same 4cyl used in the Probe and Mx-6.
1) cool unique styling idea, but....
2) easy to injure and stab your ribs on the glass edges, OUCH!
3) let some water and soap suds enter the rubber seals and seams of the inside part of the glass when you got it washed.
4) let in wind noise
5) sometimes whistled wind noise
1) They don't disagree that american cars suck.
2) They are scared of foreign cars, because, despite their tremendous reliability for never breaking down, you can't find a competent mechanic in some parts of the US for a foreign car.
3) Big 3 mechanics are as numerous as BofA and McDonald's.
X16 Million.
Regards,
OW
Now that's a bunch of blabber from an arrogant position! :shades:
>1) They don't disagree that american cars suck.
>2) They are scared of foreign cars, because, despite their tremendous reliability for never breaking down, you can't find a competent mechanic in some parts of the US for a foreign car.
ROFLMAO
>3) Big 3 mechanics are as numerous as BofA and McDonald's.
Ditto first comment.
This stuff belongs in the foreign car discussions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sheesh times 500,000 (number of U.S. dead in WWII).
Now that's a bunch of blabber from an arrogant position!
What's that, Jethro? :P
Try Barstow. I think that's the last place we'll colonize on Earth before we move out to the Moon, Mars, and the outer planets!
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
My in-laws drove a Bimmer in Nevada before moving back here (the UP part of the Midwest) a decade ago. They sold it and got a Buick. I think there are 3 mechanics near me plus some helpers. And a couple of body work guys. Big 3 vehicles outnumber foreign cars by 99 to 1 I bet.
My Uncle was a casualty.
Regards,
OW
Another 2013 Buick Encore Teaser Photo Released (Inside Line)
Note the quarter window.
Apparently there are many internet posters that are not aware of the fact that foreign cars never break down
Among these ignorant people who have experienced:
Premature Engine Failures in Mazda 6, CX-7, and RX-8, Subaru 2.5L,
Honda Civics, Toyota Tundras, Nissan 2.4L, numerous VW's and yes even BMW and Porsche!
Transmission failure in many Hondas, mostly Odyssey. CVT failure in Nissans and Audis.
Excessive oil consumption in Hondas, Toyotas, VW's Mazda and Nissan.
How about rust? Hyundai and Kia early 2000's subrame failure, Nissan Altima rusting floorboards, Mazda and Subaru Paint problems, not to mention the Toyota rusted truck frames.
Fezo, there's another Outback across the street. Newer, but lots more rust than mine. The DAV down the block has a Kia (think it's his wife's though). There's a Prius next door but it's just visiting the neighbors. One couple we know has a Pilot and there's an Element a block away. There's one Eclipse that you can hear from blocks away.
But mostly it's big honking Big 3 pickups, and the majority of the rest are Big 3 SUVs and sedans.
The Pilot owner drives a couple of hours for warranty service. Well, that's mostly true for everyone around here.
Regards,
OW
A couple of hours was a slight exaggeration, although it could take that long, depending on how bad the blizzard is and how many deer you clip. :P