Silverado is number 1, followed by the Cruze and Malibu.
I noticed that CR rates the Cruze's reliability as "much worse than average".
So GM has this best-ever for them good looking smaller car, great interior, slightly unrefined powertrain, but poor reliability.
They get close, but why can't they ever seal the deal on a GREAT car?
They need to be addressing the reliablity issues. Anything that is a common warranty complaint, they should be fixing that part for the newer vehicles so it can't happen again. Continuous engineering. And then the warranty repairs replace the bad part with the re-engineered parts.
Perhaps they could take their "standard of the world" advertising budget and put it toward that part engineering? :surprise:
I like to pick on Consumer Reports because they steered me wrong on a canoe purchase back in 1974, but I'll still read them. Even so, they aren't the only game in town. JD Power doesn't think much of the Cruze either.
But the 101 owners who wrote reviews here mostly seem to like theirs, and some of those reviews are six and twelve month updates.
Don't recall seeing 2014 Impala talked about on this board.
Latest issue of Autoweek has spy photos of 2014 Impala. Says that it will share platform with Cadillac xts and be longer than current Impala. Will be FWD or AWD.
Better than if I'd have spent more and sent that money someplace else.
Like to the southern U.S. ?
Might be foreign (no pun intended) to you southerners, but I'm a believer in the old adage, 'charity starts at home'. Yes, I'm happier to have spent money, and not much of it, on vehicles I enjoyed that were built by people who lived around me. Duh.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
For balance, that same issue of CR lists the new Focus as 'worse than average'.
I'm seeing very few if any complaint posts about the Cruze here on Edmunds, either. Must just be those fussbutt CR subscribers . You don't subscribe, your opinion isn't counted.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I'm seeing very few if any complaint posts about the Cruze here on Edmunds, either. Must just be those fussbutt CR subscribers.
If you want a small sample then these boards are the place to go. Just look at the f150 forums. Ford sold over 100k ecoboost f150's last year on and the f150 ecoboost forum has like 160 posts and maybe 2 of those are from someone who actually owns one. The whole f150 forum has little traffic.
Just give an idea of the differences among buyers. The Toyota Tundra has about as many posts as the f150. The Silverado has over 18k posts which is substantially more the 8,900 posts Ford has.
At Carcomplaints.com Ford has a total of 19,800 complaints, Chevy 15,400, Toyota 3,800, and VW 900. Does that really mean anything? Probably not. 200k cruze's sold last year and there is a whole 830 posts on the cruze forum and those are probably the same 20-30 people.
Point being, the Cruze is the best small car GM has made vs. the competition but does not beat the competition. We'll see if the sales numbers stay high.
That's one of the main reasons why I drive BMWs, because BMW has done more to bring modern manufacturing to the upstate of SC than any other entity in the state's history.
They made a big deal out of the $7500 tax incentive to buy a Volt. Don't recall a big deal made of the Prius tax rebate??
Maybe because the Volt rebate is targeted to 2 vehicles, thus much more biased. The rebate on the Prius that I believe you're referring to, covered 20+ hybrids and diesel vehicles from many manufacturers - GM, Ford, Toyota, VW, and some others. Therefore the Prius rebate as you refer to waqs much broader and less biased to 1 or 2 manufacturers.
Not a word about the 250 million in tax incentives given to Honda to build a plant to make Civics in Indiana.
AFAIK that was state $, and not federal $. It is as likely to make the national news as some state giving a sports team owner $500M to build a new (unneeded) stadium. Many of these projects are "waste" of taxpayers' money, and are done to buy votes, and unions' loyalty.
Why won't America but a $32500 Volt (after rebate)?
Have you? Or when are you getting one? How about that New GM stock? Did you buy much of that, to support GM?
The Volt is only going to be a tougher-sell in the next 6 months as more vehicles llike Mazda's Skyactiv technology hit the market, and the smaller, more economical Prius C hit the market. If people want a high mpg commuter or run-about the Prius C, estimated to base <$20K, is going to be tough to beat.
CR's opinion or what you read on any forum have a minimal effect on my decision making process when buying a car.
There's so much more to it.
A great car can end up as a horrible owner's experience if the dealer network is disfunctional. Likewise, a great dealer can make a mediocre car palatable.
When buying, I do spend quite a bit of time researching the makes/models I am interested in, and far more often than not, I end up knowing more about those particular models that the salespeople I deal with at the local dealership.
Personally, I don't see that as odd... After all, I'M the one making the huge investment.
Seems to me that, if you're buying a car primarily based upon an opinion of any publication, more often than not you are going to feel some level of disappointment at some point...
Who is it hasn't heard anything negative about a Cruze in here? I posted some time ago about my daughter's boyfriend who bought a Cruze only to have engine rebuild before it hit 5K? It's been fine since then and the dealership did everything right on the repair but that was pretty chilling.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I guess my take is this: all manufacturers make the occasional dud. My daughter just had her CVT replaced in her 09 Nissan Versa at 50k miles, but since it's repair it's been doing fine, like the Cruze you mentioned.
I'm a big fan of BMW, but they have had some recall issues with their direct injection HPFPs over the last 3-4 years.
I'm not making any quality judgment (pro or con) on any vehicle or manufacturer. Cars are SO complex nowadays that I really can't see how any manufacturer can avoid recalls/TSB's/etc. anymore.
It's easy to fall into the trap of condemning a particular product if you concentrate on a very limited number of experiences, and I am certainly guilty of that.
My bane is LG. I have owned LG cellphones, a 50" plasma TV and a couple of appliances made by LG. I had problems with every single one, and I no longer will consider LG products if a viable alternative is available. Of course, if everyone had MY experience, LG would be out of business.
Intellectually, I know my perception is faulty, but my emotional feelings are so strong against LG that I refuse to take another chance on them...
I looked at truedelta and the Cruze appears to be doing well with the owners that are reporting there. Granted the sample is small, but reported problems are about on par with the Civic, better than the Focus and bit worse than the Elantra.
Oh, yeah. There's nothing like a personal experience = or multiple personal experiences - to sway one's opinion.
My daughter is off in the Cruze down to Atlantic City tonight. Boyfriend taking her out to a nice dinner for her birthday. That's about 35 miles each way.
I give GM an "anyone can make a mistake" on this one. The car has been fine since. Other than that story she talks about what a nice car it is. She also mentioned that the boyfriend said he'd let me drive it to see how I liked it but not her. J guess she got over that since they are still together.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Excellent post. Th reality is hard to swallow for the "GM is Great" crowd but old GM is alive and well.
At General Motors (GM, Fortune 500), the cars look, drive and feel better than ever. But GM's cars -- Chevrolets, Buicks, GMCs and Cadillacs -- still suffer from problems at a relatively high rate, according to a recent owner survey by Consumer Reports.
The popular Chevrolet Cruze compact car, for instance, was ranked as the least dependable car in its class, as was the Chevrolet Malibu and the all-wheel-drive Buick LaCrosse. No GM models ranked best-in-class for dependability.
GM's quality, said Champion, has been a hit-or-miss affair with some models doing pretty well and others not at all. In fact, some models that do well one year are buggy the next and vice-versa.
GM's aware of the problem and is working to fix it, said Terry Woychowski, who was recently appointed GM's head of vehicle quality.
But here is a good approach that "New GM" has added:
GM now has every part that's pulled from a car during a warranty repair sent to a special room at the carmaker's Michigan testing center where it's scrutinized to figure out what went wrong and why.
"You have to look at that mistake and try not to have it again," he said.
The system seems to be working, he said, citing the troublesome Cruze as an example.
"Since launching the Cruze, there's been a 25% reduction in warranty claims already," he said.
The system is now being replicated at GM facilities in Asia, South America and Europe.
Let's hope they can continue to improve quality going forward.
The popular Chevrolet Cruze compact car, for instance, was ranked as the least dependable car in its class, as was the Chevrolet Malibu and the all-wheel-drive Buick LaCrosse.
That same magazine showed the Sonata and the Malibu tied for reliability..."average".
I know they have some convoluted formula, but it's comical to me to see a row of red dots, then a big black dot for 'overall', when there's not a single black dot in the individual items. It seems to me, too, that in the old days, they'd break out reliability not only by model but by engine, and it seems they don't do that anymore. The sample error was more glaring then, though, when you'd see the V6 of a model may have had a more reliable audio system than the V8, for example. :P
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
If you look at things with a broader perspective, though, everything is as planned.
"We tried our best to make a decent EV..." Quickly followed by pleas to the government to relax regulations and let them do business as usual, since EVs are "still not ready for mass production".
The reality? Toyota already beat them to the game 10+ years earlier. The usability and range of the Volt was similar to DIY kits that have existed since the 60s. By the 80s for sure, with better battery technology being available.
So now GM can have its excuse and make another 20+ years of the same old business as usual.
Consumer Reports has been cooking its data like that since the 80s. Quite often, the raw data in the back of the book does not appear to make it to their review in the front of the magazine.
The rule of thumb for myself and most of my friends is to take CR's list of recommended cars and not buy one of those soulless toasters. It serves as a pretty good yard-stick that way, because if CR recommends it, it's automatically (or maybe "only"?) rental fodder and tragically un-cool to be seen in.
In the magazine that's on the stands right now, also, there are no 'overall' ratings by year, only one rating for all models. For example, they list the one word "average" at the bottom, for all model years for the Malibu, which includes the old '04-07 style. I wonder why...and I mean that seriously.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
It seems to me that this Cruze rating is a 'plant'. I recently rented and drove a new Impala about 200 miles and found it fast, efficient, comfortable, roomy, quiet, and convenient. I'm sure CR would rate it 'garbage'. I have always found that CR is 180 degrees from the truth in rating vehicles. Just like Obama saying that he found the car in the ditch and isn't giving the keys back to those who drove it there.
Why would you say it does not beat the competition? I remember there were months when it was outselling the competition. Are the owner's ratings for all the competitors here on Edmunds better than they are for the Cruze, or are you not considering actual owner's opinions?
Not to be a wiseguy, but online (don't have the link handy; I should; I expect others to!), the other day I watched a CR review video clip of the '12 Impala. The guy driving looked like Skippy Handelman on "Family Ties" just-about--you could almost see his Birkenstocks. That was no conservative Republican driving that car! Of course, he didn't like it.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Plant? Yeah, I planted the link (gotta drive some traffic that way :shades: ). But surely you don't mean all 100+ reviews are plants? We do review all those before they get posted.
>Just like Obama saying that he found the car in the ditch and isn't giving the keys back to those who drove it there.
And his solution of putting the selector in D(emocrat) and trying to ram forward along the sideditch has cost trillions of wasted monies. Putting selector in R(epublican) and backing up on the spending spree and getting back on the road first will allow a better future traveled down the middle of the road instead of stumblling along the sideditch in D. :surprise:
Cruze gets 4.5 stars on overall ratings by 100 posted ratings. The one guy doesn't mention a single item that he found deficient--he just bitches about the CR ratings.
Corolla has a 4 star rating over on Edmunds.
Civic model has 4 star rating over on Edmunds for 2011 model. Civic modle has a 4.5 star rating on Edmunds for 2012 model--must be something wrong with it not to have 5 stars!!! Grin.
Looks to me like some PR plants (not by Edmunds) are trying to degrade Cruze with faux ratings in the link Steve posted to Edmunds to a single review.
Dated and unimpressive, the large Impala sedan falls short of modern standards in most key areas. 2012 brings a more refined 3.6-liter V6 mated to a six-speed automatic that managed 22 mpg overall in our tests. Its short list of strengths includes easy-to-use controls and a large trunk. The cabin is actually less roomy than the smaller, but nicer, Chevrolet Malibu. Handling is clumsy, the ride is unsettled, and the powertrain is short on refinement. The rear seat is skimpy for a car this size, and fit and finish is second-rate. Reliability is average, but the Impala scores too low to be recommended.
That's pretty much how I'd describe it myself. As for FE, CU reported up to 34 hwy. 27mpg overall on a 150 mile trip. Not bad for a 300hp sedan.
I looked at CU's report on the Taurus and it pretty much matches my opinion of my wife's car. The FE they netted fall in line with what my wife gets as well.
Does anyone here really think the Impala is a class leading car?
I guess when it comes to CU some just don't like what they have to say.
God forbid they say anything bad about a car that's been outdated since the last time it was refreshed 6 years ago.
Granted, the Impala is likely a fine choice for those who don't care about the areas it's lacking.
One area of concern is safety, it doesn't score as well as newer designed vehicles. It's simply due for a redesign. I'm sure the new model will address the current models short comings, just as many of GM's newer designs have done.
I think nobody's saying it's a class-leading car. Not everybody has to have a 'class-leading car'. Fact is, although it's dated, there's really nothing else in the Impala's class....you can equip it as a six-passenger sedan. And regardless of sticker, Impalas routinely sell for quite a bit less.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I think nobody's saying it's a class-leading car. Not everybody has to have a 'class-leading car'. Fact is, although it's dated, there's really nothing else in the Impala's class....you can equip it as a six-passenger sedan. And regardless of sticker, Impalas routinely sell for quite a bit less.
All I'm saying is the Impala is due to be redesigned. Very few people care about 6 passenger capacity in a sedan. They buy SUVs or minivans. I can't imagine 6 people in an Impala, unless 4 of them are kids.
I'm willing to bet most people would agree with CU's opinion of the Impala. It's a reliable but dated mode of transportation. If that's all you want, then you'll likely be happy with it.
Hat's off, though, to those who know what they like and want and don't let someone else make the decision for them.
I'd probably not put a person in the middle of an Impala, but on the other hand, I've yet to feel a center console lid that feels as comfortable as a fold-down center armrest. One thing everybody moans about in a Taurus, enormous, room-cutting center console, can be avoided in an Impala.
Why do you think they are still so popular? Even if many sales are rental companies...why would they continue to buy them if they're such a lame car? Begs the question.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Why do you think they are still so popular? Even if many sales are rental companies...why would they continue to buy them if they're such a lame car? Begs the question.
$ They are cheap. Not all of the fleet sales are to rental fleets. These companies and governments don't care about the short comings. But fact is, nearly 70% of all Impala sales are fleet sales. They want something cheap. Period.
I'm not saying the car is lame or junk. It's just not very desirable. Most new car buyers don't want to buy a brand new car that's going on a 7 year old design, well unless it's cheap enough.
My wife gets a new company car every 3-4 years. Not one has been a car I'd spend one dime of my own money on. They've all been reliable though (granted she's never had one past 80k miles)
One thing everybody moans about in a Taurus, enormous, room-cutting center console, can be avoided in an Impala.
I don't know what Ford was thinking with the Taurus. I like center consoles, but the one in my wife's Taurus is horrible. It's way to big yet there isn't any storage room. It's virtually unusable outside of the column shift and cup holders.
The center console in my Expedition is far better. It's comfortable to use as an arm rest. It has plenty of storage, and it's unobtrusive. Ford obviously went for style over the function with the Taurus and achieved neither.
Outside of the powertrain and style, I like the '06 500 better than the '11 Taurus. It was more comfortable and much easier to see out of.
An '08 to '10 Taurus would likely make a great used family sedan. It has far more room than an Impala and a better powertrain (no lame base v6 and 4speed trans). I bet those can be had cheap. Sure, the looks are nothing to right home about, but the interior materials and design are tolerable, I don't think you'll find a better performing or roomier sedan for the price.
And his solution of putting the selector in D(emocrat) and trying to ram forward along the sideditch has cost trillions of wasted monies. Putting selector in R(epublican) and backing up on the spending spree and getting back on the road first will allow a better future traveled down the middle of the road instead of stumblling along the sideditch in D
Oh c'mon - you don't really think either of these political parties is capable of truly fixing this mess for our future do you? They are both owned by special interests. Heck, this new riser Santorum lost his Senate re-election and went to work as a millionaire Washington lobbyist. I think its going to take Americans finally waking up and pushing independents and new parties into office before DC really changes. Its all just special interest financed sound bites right now from both sides. Regardless of which party wins, the middle class will keep getting screwed over - just a question of who gets the spoils from our money.
I think the market for large sedans will continue to shrink. The older buyers used to get these, but they seem to also be moving into minivans and CUV's. I don't think the Impala or Taurus is all that great of a car or buy new, but they can be a good deal for a used vehicle I suppose. The latest gen Taurus to me is a huge disappointment - cramped and heavy, hopefully next year's impala will be better.
GM, F and C are still many car lengths behind but poised to catch up....someday.
One of the biggest drivers of quality improvements at Detroit automakers will be the introductions of completely new products, said David Sargent at market research firm J.D. Power and Assoc.
A common misconception is that quality is the job of workers on the factory line, he said. Good cars are ones that were designed with an emphasis on quality and dependability from the start. That includes designing them so the parts go together correctly on the assembly line every time.
"Who is building the car is one of the least important factors," he said.
As Ford, Chrysler and GM focus more on quality during the design and engineering phase -- and as older, less-reliable models get phased out -- things should continue to get better, he said.
Still rebuilding while others advance beyond the "now."
Exactly right! The 2 parties have slight differences in what government should be. Besides Ron Paul they would have the same departments and ways of trade. Want proof - Bush and the Rep. started the bailouts and Obama and the Dems did nothing to change that. The rich and powerful have gotten more rich and powerful under both parties. Anyone who tries to change that, will be labelled "dangerous" and "a nut" by the experts who the rich and powerful will trot out.
Don't be fooled by many of these politicians claims to cut government. They propose a 5% increase and then "cut" the increase to 3%.
Chrysler has failed before, and failed again, and GM has failed, and both GM and Chrysler will fail again, at the next major economic downturn. The system is broken. If we were playing Monopoly with our parents, and everytime they started to lose, they changed the rules, or the bank gave them a loan, that would exemplify what happens now, and why the 99%'er's are so unhappy.
Granted, the Impala is likely a fine choice for those who don't care about the areas it's lacking.
Agree. Many people who are perfectly satisfied with going down to Sears and buying a shirt, shoes, and suit for their best outfit. Probably nothing wrong with that. Just don't expect to look like Brian Williams of NBC News. (That dude has got a great wardrobe person.)
If you want to make a good impression on people, you don't show up in a dated vehicle, that looks like a cop car, or an industrial-salesman, who has the trunk full of valve brochures and samples.
One group controls them both, which is why no matter who gets your vote, you are kind of throwing it away. Anyone who could actually change the reality would never be allowed to gain office to begin with. He'd be JFK'd before he got close. We have the greatest gap since before the depression, and I don't see that changing without some massive pains.
Bailing out laggards is something our competitors have done for eons. Either we have to play the same game, or not allow them level entrance to our playing field/market.
"Who is building the car is one of the least important factors," he said.
Boy, here's something we agree on. When I hear certain posters here talk about poor workmanship today by UAW workers, as opposed to Mexican workers, I just have to laugh. For years now, the manufacturers have designed cars to come down the line the easiest way. I've got to believe that hanging a door, for example, isn't at all today what it was like thirty-five years ago. There's probably not many ways the door could go on. I doubt moving Taurus assembly to Mexico would change much of anything.
BTW, when the latest Taurus came out, I thought it was the best-looking Taurus ever. Now when I see one, all I think of is how chunky it looks. I think the Five-Hundred was an underrated Ford, whether they called it a Five-Hundred or Taurus. Roomy inside, handsome instrument panel IMO, but supposedly they didn't sell well (as a Five-Hundred, anyway).
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
When I hear certain posters here talk about poor workmanship is today by UAW workers, as opposed to Mexican workers, I just have to laugh.
I tend to agree, but all we have to go on is the finished product. When I look at my wife's Chicago built Taurus and it looks like it needs a set of braces while parked next to my brother's Mexican made Fusion you have to wonder.
At the same time, my Mexican built Suburban was pretty bad. So who knows, maybe it's just normal variation in manufacturing process.
I think the Five-Hundred was an underrated Ford, whether they called it a Five-Hundred or Taurus. Roomy inside, handsome instrument panel IMO, but supposedly they didn't sell well (as a Five-Hundred, anyway).
I have to agree. The 500 was one of the few company cars we've had that actually exceeded my expectations. I was sorry to see it go, particularly considering what replaced it.
The 500/Taurus and current Taurus haven't sold particularly well.
Comments
I noticed that CR rates the Cruze's reliability as "much worse than average".
So GM has this best-ever for them good looking smaller car, great interior, slightly unrefined powertrain, but poor reliability.
They get close, but why can't they ever seal the deal on a GREAT car?
They need to be addressing the reliablity issues. Anything that is a common warranty complaint, they should be fixing that part for the newer vehicles so it can't happen again. Continuous engineering. And then the warranty repairs replace the bad part with the re-engineered parts.
Perhaps they could take their "standard of the world" advertising budget and put it toward that part engineering? :surprise:
Out here in the real world, the Cruze gets close to a 5 star rating from owners. :shades:
One guy gave the Cruze a low rating because of the CR rating, but neglected to say what, if anything, was wrong with his Cruze.
2011 Chevrolet Cruze Consumer Review
I like to pick on Consumer Reports because they steered me wrong on a canoe purchase back in 1974, but I'll still read them. Even so, they aren't the only game in town. JD Power doesn't think much of the Cruze either.
But the 101 owners who wrote reviews here mostly seem to like theirs, and some of those reviews are six and twelve month updates.
Latest issue of Autoweek has spy photos of 2014 Impala. Says that it will share platform with Cadillac xts and be longer than current Impala. Will be FWD or AWD.
Haven't seen much on it. I knew it would be based on the XTS. Should be a much nicer car than the current Impala.
Like to the southern U.S. ?
Might be foreign (no pun intended) to you southerners, but I'm a believer in the old adage, 'charity starts at home'. Yes, I'm happier to have spent money, and not much of it, on vehicles I enjoyed that were built by people who lived around me. Duh.
I'm not a southerner, I'm from the Illegal Republic of Kalifornia...
I'm seeing very few if any complaint posts about the Cruze here on Edmunds, either. Must just be those fussbutt CR subscribers
If you want a small sample then these boards are the place to go. Just look at the f150 forums. Ford sold over 100k ecoboost f150's last year on and the f150 ecoboost forum has like 160 posts and maybe 2 of those are from someone who actually owns one. The whole f150 forum has little traffic.
Just give an idea of the differences among buyers. The Toyota Tundra has about as many posts as the f150. The Silverado has over 18k posts which is substantially more the 8,900 posts Ford has.
At Carcomplaints.com Ford has a total of 19,800 complaints, Chevy 15,400, Toyota 3,800, and VW 900. Does that really mean anything? Probably not.
200k cruze's sold last year and there is a whole 830 posts on the cruze forum and those are probably the same 20-30 people.
Regards,
OW
That's one of the main reasons why I drive BMWs, because BMW has done more to bring modern manufacturing to the upstate of SC than any other entity in the state's history.
Maybe because the Volt rebate is targeted to 2 vehicles, thus much more biased. The rebate on the Prius that I believe you're referring to, covered 20+ hybrids and diesel vehicles from many manufacturers - GM, Ford, Toyota, VW, and some others. Therefore the Prius rebate as you refer to waqs much broader and less biased to 1 or 2 manufacturers.
Not a word about the 250 million in tax incentives given to Honda to build a plant to make Civics in Indiana.
AFAIK that was state $, and not federal $. It is as likely to make the national news as some state giving a sports team owner $500M to build a new (unneeded) stadium. Many of these projects are "waste" of taxpayers' money, and are done to buy votes, and unions' loyalty.
Why won't America but a $32500 Volt (after rebate)?
Have you? Or when are you getting one? How about that New GM stock? Did you buy much of that, to support GM?
The Volt is only going to be a tougher-sell in the next 6 months as more vehicles llike Mazda's Skyactiv technology hit the market, and the smaller, more economical Prius C hit the market. If people want a high mpg commuter or run-about the Prius C, estimated to base <$20K, is going to be tough to beat.
Have you?
No kidding. Gas isn't nearly expensive enough for me to buy a volt. Other than FE it doesn't appeal to me.
I'd be just as happy with a Cruze and keep the $10k+
For me, gas would have to double before I'd consider something like a Volt.
There's so much more to it.
A great car can end up as a horrible owner's experience if the dealer network is disfunctional. Likewise, a great dealer can make a mediocre car palatable.
When buying, I do spend quite a bit of time researching the makes/models I am interested in, and far more often than not, I end up knowing more about those particular models that the salespeople I deal with at the local dealership.
Personally, I don't see that as odd... After all, I'M the one making the huge investment.
Seems to me that, if you're buying a car primarily based upon an opinion of any publication, more often than not you are going to feel some level of disappointment at some point...
I'm a big fan of BMW, but they have had some recall issues with their direct injection HPFPs over the last 3-4 years.
I'm not making any quality judgment (pro or con) on any vehicle or manufacturer. Cars are SO complex nowadays that I really can't see how any manufacturer can avoid recalls/TSB's/etc. anymore.
It's easy to fall into the trap of condemning a particular product if you concentrate on a very limited number of experiences, and I am certainly guilty of that.
My bane is LG. I have owned LG cellphones, a 50" plasma TV and a couple of appliances made by LG. I had problems with every single one, and I no longer will consider LG products if a viable alternative is available. Of course, if everyone had MY experience, LG would be out of business.
Intellectually, I know my perception is faulty, but my emotional feelings are so strong against LG that I refuse to take another chance on them...
My daughter is off in the Cruze down to Atlantic City tonight. Boyfriend taking her out to a nice dinner for her birthday. That's about 35 miles each way.
I give GM an "anyone can make a mistake" on this one. The car has been fine since. Other than that story she talks about what a nice car it is. She also mentioned that the boyfriend said he'd let me drive it to see how I liked it but not her. J guess she got over that since they are still together.
At General Motors (GM, Fortune 500), the cars look, drive and feel better than ever. But GM's cars -- Chevrolets, Buicks, GMCs and Cadillacs -- still suffer from problems at a relatively high rate, according to a recent owner survey by Consumer Reports.
The popular Chevrolet Cruze compact car, for instance, was ranked as the least dependable car in its class, as was the Chevrolet Malibu and the all-wheel-drive Buick LaCrosse. No GM models ranked best-in-class for dependability.
GM's quality, said Champion, has been a hit-or-miss affair with some models doing pretty well and others not at all. In fact, some models that do well one year are buggy the next and vice-versa.
GM's aware of the problem and is working to fix it, said Terry Woychowski, who was recently appointed GM's head of vehicle quality.
But here is a good approach that "New GM" has added:
GM now has every part that's pulled from a car during a warranty repair sent to a special room at the carmaker's Michigan testing center where it's scrutinized to figure out what went wrong and why.
"You have to look at that mistake and try not to have it again," he said.
The system seems to be working, he said, citing the troublesome Cruze as an example.
"Since launching the Cruze, there's been a 25% reduction in warranty claims already," he said.
The system is now being replicated at GM facilities in Asia, South America and Europe.
Let's hope they can continue to improve quality going forward.
C'mon GM! Catchup! We know you can do it!
Regards,
OW
That same magazine showed the Sonata and the Malibu tied for reliability..."average".
I know they have some convoluted formula, but it's comical to me to see a row of red dots, then a big black dot for 'overall', when there's not a single black dot in the individual items. It seems to me, too, that in the old days, they'd break out reliability not only by model but by engine, and it seems they don't do that anymore. The sample error was more glaring then, though, when you'd see the V6 of a model may have had a more reliable audio system than the V8, for example. :P
"We tried our best to make a decent EV..."
Quickly followed by pleas to the government to relax regulations and let them do business as usual, since EVs are "still not ready for mass production".
The reality? Toyota already beat them to the game 10+ years earlier. The usability and range of the Volt was similar to DIY kits that have existed since the 60s. By the 80s for sure, with better battery technology being available.
So now GM can have its excuse and make another 20+ years of the same old business as usual.
The rule of thumb for myself and most of my friends is to take CR's list of recommended cars and not buy one of those soulless toasters. It serves as a pretty good yard-stick that way, because if CR recommends it, it's automatically (or maybe "only"?) rental fodder and tragically un-cool to be seen in.
I recently rented and drove a new Impala about 200 miles and found it fast, efficient, comfortable, roomy, quiet, and convenient. I'm sure CR would rate it 'garbage'.
I have always found that CR is 180 degrees from the truth in rating vehicles. Just like Obama saying that he found the car in the ditch and isn't giving the keys back to those who drove it there.
Just about every car that competes with an Impala offer that with more style (inside and out) and features.
That doesn't mean the Impala is a bad car, but for most people there are more attractive choices.
And his solution of putting the selector in D(emocrat) and trying to ram forward along the sideditch has cost trillions of wasted monies. Putting selector in R(epublican) and backing up on the spending spree and getting back on the road first will allow a better future traveled down the middle of the road instead of stumblling along the sideditch in D. :surprise:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Corolla has a 4 star rating over on Edmunds.
Civic model has 4 star rating over on Edmunds for 2011 model.
Civic modle has a 4.5 star rating on Edmunds for 2012 model--must be something wrong with it not to have 5 stars!!! Grin.
Looks to me like some PR plants (not by Edmunds) are trying to degrade Cruze with faux ratings in the link Steve posted to Edmunds to a single review.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Dated and unimpressive, the large Impala sedan falls short of modern standards in most key areas. 2012 brings a more refined 3.6-liter V6 mated to a six-speed automatic that managed 22 mpg overall in our tests. Its short list of strengths includes easy-to-use controls and a large trunk. The cabin is actually less roomy than the smaller, but nicer, Chevrolet Malibu. Handling is clumsy, the ride is unsettled, and the powertrain is short on refinement. The rear seat is skimpy for a car this size, and fit and finish is second-rate. Reliability is average, but the Impala scores too low to be recommended.
That's pretty much how I'd describe it myself. As for FE, CU reported up to 34 hwy. 27mpg overall on a 150 mile trip. Not bad for a 300hp sedan.
I looked at CU's report on the Taurus and it pretty much matches my opinion of my wife's car. The FE they netted fall in line with what my wife gets as well.
Does anyone here really think the Impala is a class leading car?
I guess when it comes to CU some just don't like what they have to say.
God forbid they say anything bad about a car that's been outdated since the last time it was refreshed 6 years ago.
Granted, the Impala is likely a fine choice for those who don't care about the areas it's lacking.
One area of concern is safety, it doesn't score as well as newer designed vehicles. It's simply due for a redesign. I'm sure the new model will address the current models short comings, just as many of GM's newer designs have done.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/Chevrolet/Cruze/2011/Sedan/ratings/
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-category/compact-car/
Honda wins the compact IQ for 2011.
Now IMO, that doesn't mean the Civic is the best car. I would buy a Cruze or Focus over it an accept the fact they likely will be less reliable.
All I'm saying is the Impala is due to be redesigned. Very few people care about 6 passenger capacity in a sedan. They buy SUVs or minivans. I can't imagine 6 people in an Impala, unless 4 of them are kids.
I'm willing to bet most people would agree with CU's opinion of the Impala. It's a reliable but dated mode of transportation. If that's all you want, then you'll likely be happy with it.
I'd probably not put a person in the middle of an Impala, but on the other hand, I've yet to feel a center console lid that feels as comfortable as a fold-down center armrest. One thing everybody moans about in a Taurus, enormous, room-cutting center console, can be avoided in an Impala.
Why do you think they are still so popular? Even if many sales are rental companies...why would they continue to buy them if they're such a lame car? Begs the question.
$ They are cheap. Not all of the fleet sales are to rental fleets. These companies and governments don't care about the short comings. But fact is, nearly 70% of all Impala sales are fleet sales. They want something cheap. Period.
I'm not saying the car is lame or junk. It's just not very desirable. Most new car buyers don't want to buy a brand new car that's going on a 7 year old design, well unless it's cheap enough.
My wife gets a new company car every 3-4 years. Not one has been a car I'd spend one dime of my own money on. They've all been reliable though (granted she's never had one past 80k miles)
One thing everybody moans about in a Taurus, enormous, room-cutting center console, can be avoided in an Impala.
I don't know what Ford was thinking with the Taurus. I like center consoles, but the one in my wife's Taurus is horrible. It's way to big yet there isn't any storage room. It's virtually unusable outside of the column shift and cup holders.
The center console in my Expedition is far better. It's comfortable to use as an arm rest. It has plenty of storage, and it's unobtrusive. Ford obviously went for style over the function with the Taurus and achieved neither.
Outside of the powertrain and style, I like the '06 500 better than the '11 Taurus. It was more comfortable and much easier to see out of.
An '08 to '10 Taurus would likely make a great used family sedan. It has far more room than an Impala and a better powertrain (no lame base v6 and 4speed trans). I bet those can be had cheap. Sure, the looks are nothing to right home about, but the interior materials and design are tolerable, I don't think you'll find a better performing or roomier sedan for the price.
Oh c'mon - you don't really think either of these political parties is capable of truly fixing this mess for our future do you? They are both owned by special interests. Heck, this new riser Santorum lost his Senate re-election and went to work as a millionaire Washington lobbyist. I think its going to take Americans finally waking up and pushing independents and new parties into office before DC really changes. Its all just special interest financed sound bites right now from both sides. Regardless of which party wins, the middle class will keep getting screwed over - just a question of who gets the spoils from our money.
One of the biggest drivers of quality improvements at Detroit automakers will be the introductions of completely new products, said David Sargent at market research firm J.D. Power and Assoc.
A common misconception is that quality is the job of workers on the factory line, he said. Good cars are ones that were designed with an emphasis on quality and dependability from the start. That includes designing them so the parts go together correctly on the assembly line every time.
"Who is building the car is one of the least important factors," he said.
As Ford, Chrysler and GM focus more on quality during the design and engineering phase -- and as older, less-reliable models get phased out -- things should continue to get better, he said.
Still rebuilding while others advance beyond the "now."
Regards,
OW
Don't be fooled by many of these politicians claims to cut government. They propose a 5% increase and then "cut" the increase to 3%.
Chrysler has failed before, and failed again, and GM has failed, and both GM and Chrysler will fail again, at the next major economic downturn. The system is broken. If we were playing Monopoly with our parents, and everytime they started to lose, they changed the rules, or the bank gave them a loan, that would exemplify what happens now, and why the 99%'er's are so unhappy.
Agree. Many people who are perfectly satisfied with going down to Sears and buying a shirt, shoes, and suit for their best outfit. Probably nothing wrong with that. Just don't expect to look like Brian Williams of NBC News. (That dude has got a great wardrobe person.)
If you want to make a good impression on people, you don't show up in a dated vehicle, that looks like a cop car, or an industrial-salesman, who has the trunk full of valve brochures and samples.
Bailing out laggards is something our competitors have done for eons. Either we have to play the same game, or not allow them level entrance to our playing field/market.
Boy, here's something we agree on. When I hear certain posters here talk about poor workmanship today by UAW workers, as opposed to Mexican workers, I just have to laugh. For years now, the manufacturers have designed cars to come down the line the easiest way. I've got to believe that hanging a door, for example, isn't at all today what it was like thirty-five years ago. There's probably not many ways the door could go on. I doubt moving Taurus assembly to Mexico would change much of anything.
BTW, when the latest Taurus came out, I thought it was the best-looking Taurus ever. Now when I see one, all I think of is how chunky it looks. I think the Five-Hundred was an underrated Ford, whether they called it a Five-Hundred or Taurus. Roomy inside, handsome instrument panel IMO, but supposedly they didn't sell well (as a Five-Hundred, anyway).
I tend to agree, but all we have to go on is the finished product. When I look at my wife's Chicago built Taurus and it looks like it needs a set of braces while parked next to my brother's Mexican made Fusion you have to wonder.
At the same time, my Mexican built Suburban was pretty bad. So who knows, maybe it's just normal variation in manufacturing process.
I think the Five-Hundred was an underrated Ford, whether they called it a Five-Hundred or Taurus. Roomy inside, handsome instrument panel IMO, but supposedly they didn't sell well (as a Five-Hundred, anyway).
I have to agree. The 500 was one of the few company cars we've had that actually exceeded my expectations. I was sorry to see it go, particularly considering what replaced it.
The 500/Taurus and current Taurus haven't sold particularly well.