"Who is building the car is one of the least important factors," he said.
Boy, here's something we agree on. When I hear certain posters here talk about poor workmanship today by UAW workers, as opposed to Mexican workers, I just have to laugh. For years now, the manufacturers have designed cars to come down the line the easiest way.
Then you should also agree the UAW are one of the big reasons US Auto manufacturers went bankrupt.
As Groucho would say, "And when did you stop beating your wife?"
As soon as the Divorce is final. Looks like many years before we get repaid in full. Then, the beating ends!! :shades:
On January 2, 2011 the stock traded at $37.06, on January 2, 2012, it hovered a few dimes above $20, making GM the worst-performing auto-industry stock of 2011: with a 46.1-percent drop, it edged out Cooper Tire (-41.7), TRW Automotive (-40) and Ford (-37.3).
You know, if the UAW gets reasonable on work rules, and I know that is a big iff - it could actually work to the D3 advantage. New wages are similar or better than that of some transplants and now the UAW picks up healthcare. Might actually become a lower loaded per hour cost than Toyota and Honda down the road? I never say "never" because truth changes over time. If the cuts hold, D3 will be getting a better fixed cost footprint through reduced fringes in addition to the lower variable labor cost input.
Back in September we rented Ford Fusion to take some friends from Germany around for a few days.
I liked the car until we took them to the airport, about 100 miles away. It was the first time we had been in the car continuously for more than 20-30 minutes.
I don't know why, but the driver's seat became a torture chair after an hour. Thinking it was just me, my wife drove the car back from the airport. Her opinion was much more negative than mine.
It was the only car I have ever driven that was so painful to drive.
Other than that, I liked the car. Maybe the upscale seating options would have corrected the problem, but my wife has made it clear that she would never consider the current model Fusion as a possible purchase, and I agree.
On January 2, 2011 the stock traded at $37.06, on January 2, 2012, it hovered a few dimes above $20, making GM the worst-performing auto-industry stock of 2011: with a 46.1-percent drop, it edged out Cooper Tire (-41.7), TRW Automotive (-40) and Ford (-37.3).
Investors are starting to realize the outlook for GM is bleak, especially in North America. What it comes down to is engineering; GM's new offerings are so woefully and poorly engineered. Just check out the discussion boards for the Acadia, Equinox, CTS, etc. e.g. to change a front headlight bulb on an Acadia one has to take off the wheel! A GM dealer charges $200 for this service. How can GM's engineers be so idiotic?
I believe you'll see GM's sales start to take a major nosedive in 2012. Further, they didn't go far enough in eliminating redundant brands (i.e. GMC trucks).
Of the "Big 3", I believe Chrysler will gain the most in 2012. Their newer models are much better received and they are well-positioned to gain market share.
GM isn't the only manufacturer to make it all about going down the assembly line easier. I told a Chrysler service manager, when I had my daughter's PT Cruiser in for service, how I heard a bumper has to come off to change a light bulb in a Malibu. He said, "we have vehicles like that too". So it's not just GM, sadly.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I buy a car for me, not for someone else's impression. I think that speaks volumes for both of us.
Yes, even as a kid I liked to play with Hot Wheels, play with the European MatchBoxes and the interesting and stylish antique models, and build model Corvettes and such. And even fire trucks and construction equipment were big hits. My friends and I weren't dreaming of becoming an insurance salesman and getting some John Doe mobile.
Last I checked you only live once. You may have to live some blah, mundane life in ways, but some people at least WANT something better. No matter if I earned much more or much less, I would not desirea car sold in large numbers to the John Doe fleet world. A car should not be an appliance. GM has a business problem when it makes too many bean-counter appliances. People who have $ are who buy vehicles, and people who have money want something better than an appliance.
I own a Studebaker hobby car for that feeling, I guess. Otherwise, I want something inexpensive, reliable, American, and plenty of available dealers everywhere if I need it. I think 'mainstream' today means Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Hyundai.
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>"we have vehicles like that too". So it's not just GM, sadly.
Gotta love how some pick up on a single item and try to make that their reason for smearing the whole company as if other companies don't have the same "faults."
I love reading the Civic and other discussions where the perfect cars in some peoples' minds have problems. A poster will write about a problem and someone else posts, "Oh yeah. That's a known problem."
Wait...is this the same one or another one you just saw last week?
I guess that means it's fair game to mention again that you claim that American car buffs are racists. Sheesh. Calling Freud...Dr. Oz...Dr. Phil...somebody.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I'd agree with that comment. I didn't get into Studes because parts were available and cheap, but once I did, I enjoyed that! Lots of NOS available for Larks primarily, and there is a ton of reproduction...surprising when you show people some of the catalogs. Although, reproduction parts are creeping up, of course.
I did like that two of their three lines of cars in the '63-64 period I like best, were specialty/luxury coupes. But of course, I haven't wanted to spend the money to buy a really nice one of those!
I've got a daughter going to Miami in the fall.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
..neither is exotic, but I thought the first "new" Altima (2004?) was a handsome car, which probably started the tuner 'clear lens over chromed taillight surrounds' look. I also liked what I think were late '80's Maximas...very simple styling with a wall-to-wall taillight. First car I ever saw in that wonderful pearlescent white.
Just to show I don't dislike them all! Never rode in either, however.
Both were before the 'alien/insectoid' styling theme that lemko has mentioned in the past!
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I didn't mean it in a bad way really, either. Fans of mainstream old MB are just as cheap - because restoration costs are insane, restorations simply don't happen, which means just maintaining the car as you can. Parts supply is also fairly easy - the brands have some kind of link even 50 years later.
I kind of think that a mainstream Stude sedan kind of fits the image and maybe market position of a mainstream Malibu or Impala today - value over all else.
probably the first asian car that I really liked was a Datson 240Z and then 280z. I just loved those Z cars with their inline 6 and I thought they looked cool too.
The first Asian sedan I really liked, ironically was a late 80's Maxima. Those were very good FWD sporty sedans. Nothing domestic could touch it until the Taurus SHO came along. Unfortunately, the SHO was a great engine surrounded by a fairly lousy car, though I still liked them too. To bad Nissan has lost it's formula, outside of the Altima, they don't do much for me anymore.
I also liked Mazda RX-7s. The first time I had an opportunity to really drive one (an '83 or so). I was hooked. I just loved the power delivery of those rotary engines and the go cart like handling. Just a ton of fun. I helped facilitate my younger brother buying an '87 RX-7 while he was in college in the mid 90's.
Man that was a fun car. I loved how smooth the rotary engine was and the fact if you didn't watch the tach you needed a buzzer to warn that you were over revving it. It was hard to tell by ear, it just pulled and pulled right past 7k rpm. Sure, they had a lot of quirks and could be fussy, but man were they fun. I was able to get it for my brother from an auction for $2,500 with 60k on it. He drove it 3 years, put 35k miles on it, then someone hit it while parked in front of my parents house, totaling it. He got a check for $4,500! Nice. Though we were sad to see it go. Outside of lousy gas mileage, and fussy winter starting, it never gave him any trouble.
The crazy thing is, the RX-7 was parked in front of my parents house, the wheel was turned towards the curb. They guy who hit it must have been flying because the RX launched off the curb, hit my dad's '92 Crown Vic (in the driveway) above the rear bumper and actually above the rear wheel well, pushing the back end of the CV partially into the yard and causing over $6k in damage. IIRC, the guy who hit was driving a Taurus.
That style of Altima came out for 2002. I remember driving one in early 2002 and liking it a lot. If I wasn't so upside-down on my 2000 Intrepid, I would've been tempted to trade!
Now, it wasn't without its faults. For one thing, the 4-cyl engine sounded really crude at idle and lower speeds, although at highway speeds it was eerily quiet. The interior was also a bit on the cheap side. I would've been able to tolerate it, though.
Oh, and the fuel economy didn't seem so great for a 4-cyl car, rated at 23/29.
I think that Maxima you're describing is the one that ran from 1989-94? And yeah, that pearly white looked really good on those!
Now, it wasn't without its faults. For one thing, the 4-cyl engine sounded really crude at idle and lower speeds, although at highway speeds it was eerily quiet. The interior was also a bit on the cheap side. I would've been able to tolerate it, though.
What really stood out with the '02 Altima was the exterior styling and the fact you could get the 3.5L 240hp v6 and it was offered with a manual. Plus it was attractively priced.
Nissan 4 cylinders make impressive power, but once they increased the displacement over 2 liters smoothness and refined suffered big time.
Kind of the same thing happened with the VQ v6. The 3.0VQ was simply fabulous, good power, super smooth, and very reliable. The 3.5 version lost some of those qualities, though power is not an issue.
The 3.5VQ that was in my 01 Pathfinder was very good. 265 ft-lbs of torque at 3200rpm was impressive for 2001. It just wasn't as smooth at higher rpm as the previous 3.0L. Granted it was still way better than most domestic v6's at the time.
When I bought the Pathfinder, I was planning on buying a Jeep Liberty. The Jeep dealer was also a Nissan dealer. I had read about how impressive the Pathfinder was at the time, but didn't want to spend that much money. Unfortunately I test drove the PF and Liberty back to back and realized immediately, how lousy the Mopar 3.7 v6 was in comparison and how much better the Pathfinder drove. That cost me several thousand dollars, but I didn't care.
About 6 months later, I needed an 02 sensor replaced in the PF and the dealer gave me a Liberty to drive for the day. I couldn't wait to return that POC.
Why would you say it does not beat the competition?
Why would you say it does not beat the competition? I remember there were months when it was outselling the competition. Are the owner's ratings for all the competitors here on Edmunds better than they are for the Cruze, or are you not considering actual owner's opinions?
Here's why:
DETROIT, - The Hyundai Elantra is the 2012 North American Car of the Year and the Land Rover Range Rover Evoque is the 2012 North American Truck of the Year.
A word of caution, English isn't a second language down there, more like 5th or 6th - Just kidding! Are you talking U of Miami, or just moving down there? I think its actually kind of a nice area from the old style Corral Gables to the Art Deco Miami Beach to Biscayne Bay and the beautiful downtown skyline. And like Honolulu, the predominant winds tend to be from the east.
My bad, she's going to Miami of Ohio! Way down in the SW part of the state. But thanks for the warning, if I ever make it to Miami, FL!
I'm not a big fan of FL. Seems that's where 75% of the country's weird news comes from! And I lived in Atlanta from '83 to '85--that was fun then, but where I live now has 28K people and that's too big for me! I like small towns/the country.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Errrrr, may I correct you, please? That's Miami University.
The other one is University of Miami. The sportscasters decided to use the misnomer Miami of Ohio. They never call the other one Miami of Florida.
As a graduate, I like to protect the "Miami University" name. A beautiful campus. And when I went there, the locals did speak a different language, grin. A joke among some of us was that it was Miami University, home of Oxford, Ohio. :P
"........I believe you'll see GM's sales start to take a major nosedive in 2012. Further, they didn't go far enough in eliminating redundant brands (i.e. GMC trucks). "
Major Nosedive........Ha ha. Who was that? Your CO in the Army..
Comments
Pretty much.
Boy, here's something we agree on. When I hear certain posters here talk about poor workmanship today by UAW workers, as opposed to Mexican workers, I just have to laugh. For years now, the manufacturers have designed cars to come down the line the easiest way.
Then you should also agree the UAW are one of the big reasons US Auto manufacturers went bankrupt.
Regards,
OW
As Groucho would say, "And when did you stop beating your wife?"
As soon as the Divorce is final. Looks like many years before we get repaid in full. Then, the beating ends!! :shades:
On January 2, 2011 the stock traded at $37.06, on January 2, 2012, it hovered a few dimes above $20, making GM the worst-performing auto-industry stock of 2011: with a 46.1-percent drop, it edged out Cooper Tire (-41.7), TRW Automotive (-40) and Ford (-37.3).
Regards,
OW
I liked the car until we took them to the airport, about 100 miles away. It was the first time we had been in the car continuously for more than 20-30 minutes.
I don't know why, but the driver's seat became a torture chair after an hour. Thinking it was just me, my wife drove the car back from the airport. Her opinion was much more negative than mine.
It was the only car I have ever driven that was so painful to drive.
Other than that, I liked the car. Maybe the upscale seating options would have corrected the problem, but my wife has made it clear that she would never consider the current model Fusion as a possible purchase, and I agree.
Live with it.
Regards,
OW
Here is another.
ATS Preview
This might just be the best selling Caddy going forward. Nice!
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Investors are starting to realize the outlook for GM is bleak, especially in North America. What it comes down to is engineering; GM's new offerings are so woefully and poorly engineered. Just check out the discussion boards for the Acadia, Equinox, CTS, etc. e.g. to change a front headlight bulb on an Acadia one has to take off the wheel! A GM dealer charges $200 for this service. How can GM's engineers be so idiotic?
I believe you'll see GM's sales start to take a major nosedive in 2012. Further, they didn't go far enough in eliminating redundant brands (i.e. GMC trucks).
Of the "Big 3", I believe Chrysler will gain the most in 2012. Their newer models are much better received and they are well-positioned to gain market share.
Why would the same identical information or image, posted multiple times bother anybody (LOL)? In conversation, that's called nagging.
Yes, even as a kid I liked to play with Hot Wheels, play with the European MatchBoxes and the interesting and stylish antique models, and build model Corvettes and such. And even fire trucks and construction equipment were big hits. My friends and I weren't dreaming of becoming an insurance salesman and getting some John Doe mobile.
Last I checked you only live once. You may have to live some blah, mundane life in ways, but some people at least WANT something better. No matter if I earned much more or much less, I would not desirea car sold in large numbers to the John Doe fleet world. A car should not be an appliance. GM has a business problem when it makes too many bean-counter appliances. People who have $ are who buy vehicles, and people who have money want something better than an appliance.
Do you buy into their survey results as much when they say the single most-reliable car in their survey was the Volt?
Gotta love how some pick up on a single item and try to make that their reason for smearing the whole company as if other companies don't have the same "faults."
I love reading the Civic and other discussions where the perfect cars in some peoples' minds have problems. A poster will write about a problem and someone else posts, "Oh yeah. That's a known problem."
Gotta love those blinders.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's the reason for twit filters.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well said, sir!
link title
Ask and you shall recieve. :shades:
I guess that means it's fair game to mention again that you claim that American car buffs are racists. Sheesh. Calling Freud...Dr. Oz...Dr. Phil...somebody.
Could it be a trend? Doubt it, but there is a discussion on the forum about (2) folks who have had theirs burn up as well.
Still better than the steering wheel falling off.
Not going to rehash the B.S. all over again. Take my post how you would like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0HyPteBV3o
Also, your 'Buy 'Murican/Racist' comment was in post 12888.
In a way, these cheaper fleet level GM cars are like the mainstream Studes of 50-60 years ago.
I did like that two of their three lines of cars in the '63-64 period I like best, were specialty/luxury coupes. But of course, I haven't wanted to spend the money to buy a really nice one of those!
I've got a daughter going to Miami in the fall.
Just to show I don't dislike them all! Never rode in either, however.
Both were before the 'alien/insectoid' styling theme that lemko has mentioned in the past!
I kind of think that a mainstream Stude sedan kind of fits the image and maybe market position of a mainstream Malibu or Impala today - value over all else.
The first Asian sedan I really liked, ironically was a late 80's Maxima. Those were very good FWD sporty sedans. Nothing domestic could touch it until the Taurus SHO came along. Unfortunately, the SHO was a great engine surrounded by a fairly lousy car, though I still liked them too. To bad Nissan has lost it's formula, outside of the Altima, they don't do much for me anymore.
I also liked Mazda RX-7s. The first time I had an opportunity to really drive one (an '83 or so). I was hooked. I just loved the power delivery of those rotary engines and the go cart like handling. Just a ton of fun. I helped facilitate my younger brother buying an '87 RX-7 while he was in college in the mid 90's.
Man that was a fun car. I loved how smooth the rotary engine was and the fact if you didn't watch the tach you needed a buzzer to warn that you were over revving it. It was hard to tell by ear, it just pulled and pulled right past 7k rpm. Sure, they had a lot of quirks and could be fussy, but man were they fun. I was able to get it for my brother from an auction for $2,500 with 60k on it. He drove it 3 years, put 35k miles on it, then someone hit it while parked in front of my parents house, totaling it. He got a check for $4,500! Nice. Though we were sad to see it go. Outside of lousy gas mileage, and fussy winter starting, it never gave him any trouble.
The crazy thing is, the RX-7 was parked in front of my parents house, the wheel was turned towards the curb. They guy who hit it must have been flying because the RX launched off the curb, hit my dad's '92 Crown Vic (in the driveway) above the rear bumper and actually above the rear wheel well, pushing the back end of the CV partially into the yard and causing over $6k in damage. IIRC, the guy who hit was driving a Taurus.
Now, it wasn't without its faults. For one thing, the 4-cyl engine sounded really crude at idle and lower speeds, although at highway speeds it was eerily quiet. The interior was also a bit on the cheap side. I would've been able to tolerate it, though.
Oh, and the fuel economy didn't seem so great for a 4-cyl car, rated at 23/29.
I think that Maxima you're describing is the one that ran from 1989-94? And yeah, that pearly white looked really good on those!
What really stood out with the '02 Altima was the exterior styling and the fact you could get the 3.5L 240hp v6 and it was offered with a manual. Plus it was attractively priced.
Nissan 4 cylinders make impressive power, but once they increased the displacement over 2 liters smoothness and refined suffered big time.
Kind of the same thing happened with the VQ v6. The 3.0VQ was simply fabulous, good power, super smooth, and very reliable. The 3.5 version lost some of those qualities, though power is not an issue.
The 3.5VQ that was in my 01 Pathfinder was very good. 265 ft-lbs of torque at 3200rpm was impressive for 2001. It just wasn't as smooth at higher rpm as the previous 3.0L. Granted it was still way better than most domestic v6's at the time.
When I bought the Pathfinder, I was planning on buying a Jeep Liberty. The Jeep dealer was also a Nissan dealer. I had read about how impressive the Pathfinder was at the time, but didn't want to spend that much money. Unfortunately I test drove the PF and Liberty back to back and realized immediately, how lousy the Mopar 3.7 v6 was in comparison and how much better the Pathfinder drove. That cost me several thousand dollars, but I didn't care.
About 6 months later, I needed an 02 sensor replaced in the PF and the dealer gave me a Liberty to drive for the day. I couldn't wait to return that POC.
Why would you say it does not beat the competition? I remember there were months when it was outselling the competition. Are the owner's ratings for all the competitors here on Edmunds better than they are for the Cruze, or are you not considering actual owner's opinions?
Here's why:
DETROIT, - The Hyundai Elantra is the 2012 North American Car of the Year and the Land Rover Range Rover Evoque is the 2012 North American Truck of the Year.
2012 North American Car of the Year
Regards,
OW
Just slightly kidding.
A word of caution, English isn't a second language down there, more like 5th or 6th - Just kidding! Are you talking U of Miami, or just moving down there? I think its actually kind of a nice area from the old style Corral Gables to the Art Deco Miami Beach to Biscayne Bay and the beautiful downtown skyline. And like Honolulu, the predominant winds tend to be from the east.
I'm not a big fan of FL. Seems that's where 75% of the country's weird news comes from! And I lived in Atlanta from '83 to '85--that was fun then, but where I live now has 28K people and that's too big for me! I like small towns/the country.
2011 A4 Cars Sold: 2,981,900
D3 = GM, F and C
A4 = HonToyNisHyunKia
Regards,
OW
A4 Light Truck Sales 2011 = 1,983,763
Regards,
OW
Errrrr, may I correct you, please? That's Miami University.
The other one is University of Miami. The sportscasters decided to use the misnomer Miami of Ohio. They never call the other one Miami of Florida.
As a graduate, I like to protect the "Miami University" name. A beautiful campus. And when I went there, the locals did speak a different language, grin. A joke among some of us was that it was Miami University, home of Oxford, Ohio. :P
And yes, for me, it's still the Miami Redskins.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Major Nosedive........Ha ha. Who was that? Your CO in the Army..
Too funny.....
NOT!!!!!
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/09/2013-chevrolet-sonic-rs-detroit-2012/
Tru-140S concept:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/09/chevrolet-tru-140s-concept-is-the-meaner-cruz- e/
Tru 130R concept:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/09/chevrolet-code-130r-concept-detroit-2012/
http://www.dodge.com/en/2013/dart/
I take that as a great compliment. I really wanted my son to go there and he chose OSU .
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,