Factor in the TB clones and I don't believe 300K would rise to 830K.
Just sayin', this is so classic here. 3,996 got posted again and again (SRX), but nobody said a thing about 830K.
I'm not saying GM doesn't have recalls. It's just that on this board, folks act like they're the only one and put on the big blinders about everyone else, or post a three-year old closed review and pass it off as being new.
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There was an article in Collectible Automobile about the LaCrosse and Lucerne Supers. I think I'll seek these two out as possible used car choices in the future...if I can find one! They are quite rare. Only 2,000 Lucerne Supers and a miniscule 1,000 LaCrosse Supers were built. I imagine a LaCrosse Super with the 5.3 V-8 would be an amazing car at a bargain basement price! My wife's ordinary 3.8 V-6 LaCrosse has been an awesome, trouble-free car all this time.
Acura messed up big time when they put those ugly chrome "beaks" on their cars. There's a previous generation Acura TL in the lot at work and it looks much nicer than the current cars.
GM may have narrowed it down, though. NHTSA gave them more time before the announcement for PR damage control. Remember there were twice as many complaints.
There's a previous generation Acura TL in the lot at work and it looks much nicer than the current cars.
Stongly agree. Wife has an 07 TL and will hang onto it until the next gen (2014?) comes along. Will take a look at it, maybe test drive and also consider other brands in this category. But, she probably would not consider buying anything from GM.
I'll bet that next gen Acura remains mediocre. Here's a recent quote from it's leader:
“We are having a lot of discussions about Acura and which way it should be going. And what we confirmed is that the brand direction should be smart premium, not top tier We agreed that smart premium is what we should be targeting with Acura, not the upper-segment vehicles such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz. We must apply advanced technologies which make our vehicle more fun to drive, achieve a more comfortable drive and high environmental performance. "
Only 2,000 Lucerne Supers and a miniscule 1,000 LaCrosse Supers were built. I imagine a LaCrosse Super with the 5.3 V-8 would be an amazing car at a bargain basement price!
I don't think I've seen a Lucerne Super. I have seen a few LaCrosse Supers over the years.
Didn't the lucerne Super use the 292 HP version of the Northstar? I don't think the 5.3 was ever placed in a Lucerne.
Lemko, you already have a Lucerne Super, it's basically a dopy looking version of a DTS performance.
Didn't the lucerne Super use the 292 HP version of the Northstar? I don't think the 5.3 was ever placed in a Lucerne.
I had to look it up on Wikipedia, but yeah, it looks like the Super, offered from 2008-2011, used the 292 hp Northstar. There was a 275 hp version used from 2006-2008, which I think was in the CXS model.
While the Super might be hard to come by, I don't think the CXS is particularly rare. I remember doing a local used car search a few months ago, and a few of them came up.
There was a guy at work who bought an Impala SS with the 5.3 V-8 a few years ago, and it wasn't long before he started crying about how much gas it used. :confuse:
The interesting thing is that the TB is an old school SUV, the RAV is a crossover, and the Camry is a sedan, so the parts' versatility means it could have been used in anything.
If indeed it's the same supplier. You wonder what other vehicles they went in.
Two CEOs walk in to a bar, Lutz orders power window switches, Toyoda says, "I'll have what he's having".
President Obama's proposed budget calls for boosting electric-car subsidies to $10,000, up from the present $7,500, even though plug-ins are typically bought by the wealthy.
That's significant because the election-year budget attempts to narrow deficits by increasing taxes on the wealthy.
If 10,000 electrics like the Chevrolet Volt extended-range sedan, a plug-in that qualifies for the subsidy, were sold a year, the program would cost taxpayers another $100 million a year,the Daily Caller points out, via Yahoo News.
Interestingly, the Daily Caller points to General Motors' statements that the cars are bought by individuals with an average family income of $170,000 a year, which would make them among the nation's top earners.
No wonder sales of Volts are so low. Now, it'll sell around 100 more per month as average family income affordability will drop to $150,000. Whoopee!!
In the DC area, for example, if you want to be one of those elusive 1-percenters, you need a household income of at least $513K. $170K merely gets you into the top 17%. $150K? top 23%.
But then, if you live in a high-priced area, and have a few kids, that $150-170K won't go very far when you're trying to save for retirement, your kids' college education, a mortgage, etc. So, I guess that Volt could still be out of reach for many people.
I live in #12 but I'm surrounded on all sides by #1, 2, and 3.
#1 is Loudon, that's I'm-so-rich-I-own-a-ranch kind of money. You'd own more horses than cars.
#2 is CIA territory. If you told us how much you earned, you'd have to kill us.
#3 surprises me a little. Montgomery has more wealth but it's also more diverse, you have Takoma Park and Silver Spring keeping the average down.
Back to the Volt, it would really only be suitable for the close-in suburbs, so Fairfax and Montgomery counties, yes.
$10,000 in federal aid plus $2000 from the state of Maryland here, so $12k in subsidies. That's still, what, $28k for a small 4 seater? EV charging stations here at work are free, however.
Acura messed up big time when they put those ugly chrome "beaks" on their cars. There's a previous generation Acura TL in the lot at work and it looks much nicer than the current cars.
I currently drive the previous generation TL, and I agree, it looks much better than the current generation. The current TL has no interest from me, and I doubt I'll be shopping Acura for a replacement.
Don't get me wrong, my TL has been near flawless at 118K miles. It's just that it's almost too big for my tastes. The current TL is too big and ugly; the TSX has gotten bloated and numb, too. I'd be looking at a premium compact sedan, or possibly a small SUV.
I was shocked to see Charles, Calvert, and St. Mary's counties all made the list. I never really thought of any of those as wealthy areas...in fact, I look at those as possible places to move to as I get closer to retirement, where I could get more house for less money! Heck, St. Mary's county doesn't even do emissions testing yet; a few years back they ran a feasibility study, and it turned out that all the work associated with putting in a test facility, paving over land, making people drive to it, wait in line idling their engines, etc, would actually do more harm than good to the environment!
And at the same time, I'm surprised to NOT see Anne Arundel county on that list. I'd figure it would definitely have a lot more wealth than Southern Maryland.
I guess Southern Maryland does have those upscale, ritzy places on the Potomac and Patuxent Rivers, and Chesapeake Bay, but then AA County has its nosebleed sections such as Annapolis, Davidsonville, etc.
I like that '04-08 style TL a lot. I thought it seemed like it was just the right size. Not too big, but still big enough inside that it felt cozy to me, rather than cramped. One of my coworkers had one, but then he traded it for a 2009...SH-AWD or something like that. I really didn't care for it. That Joker slashy-face across the front looks awful, and at many angles I think it looks like a bad copy of a Saturn Aura. Inside, it didn't seem as upscale as the previous model...a bit more plasticky here and there. And it definitely didn't seem as space efficient. While the car got bigger, it somehow seemed to lose some interior room.
He got it in a fairly tasteful color though, a deep, rich midnight blue.
While losses coming from Opel are obviously not a good thing for GM, they don’t bode well either for GM CEO Dan Akerson, the man who made the call to hold onto Opel during the automakers’ restructuring. Now, Bloomberg is reporting that Opel’s struggles will likely result in GM delivering its weakest quarterly performance since emerging from bankruptcy back in 2009.
In fact, the losses stemming from Opel are believed to be so great that they may drive GM’s European operations to a $358 million loss for Q4, compared to losses of just $292 million the previous quarter for the region. In case anyone is interested in keeping score, GM Europe has run a deficit of $14.7 billion since 1999 – posing a real risk to the global automaker as it continues to attempt to perform as the world’s largest automaker.
Akerson may also be faced with taking tough actions to shore up losses, with one analyst at Barclays Capital suggesting that GM may cut another 3,000- to 5,000 jobs in Europe, in addition to the 5,800 it has already disposed of.
I currently drive the previous generation TL, and I agree, it looks much better than the current generation. Don't get me wrong, my TL has been near flawless at 118K miles.
Same here. Wife's 07 TL has over 100k miles and has been flawless as well as my 04 TL at 90k miles. I am not ready for awhile to replace the 04 TL. I could be tempted with the new Cadillac ATS. Will wait for all the reviews, and, if excellent, might be interested in look-see and test drive. Expect that if great reviews, ATS will be in high demand with dealer markups.
Interestingly, the Daily Caller points to General Motors' statements that the cars are bought by individuals with an average family income of $170,000 a year, which would make them among the nation's top earners.
Curious. Would think that people at that income have discriminating tastes and would want to buy a 3-Series, Audi, entry level Benz, even a Cadillac CTS rather than a Volt.
Curious. Would think that people at that income have discriminating tastes and would want to buy a 3-Series, Audi, entry level Benz, even a Cadillac CTS rather than a Volt.
Considering how many BMW's and Mercedes sell a year vs a Volt you're correct.
Looks like the Volt is selling to those who want to use less fuel regardless of whether it makes economic sense.
Yep, just like the GTO and G8. That'll ensure sales skyrocket, right?
Camaros sold with a premium right out of the box--although I know that irked you .
GTO's and G8's got good reviews, except for styling (especially the GTO). Don't think that'll be an issue with the new Caddy.
Plus, I think we'd honestly have to conclude that a lot of people didn't know what to make of a car built in Australia. The Caddy won't have that issue, right?
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The ATS certainly has potential. No one can say at this point if it has what it takes to go head to head with BMW.
I'm going to the Chicago Auto Show on Saturday, so I'll be anxious to see the ATS.
I really don't see the ATS challenging a 3 series in sales, but that doesn't mean it won't be successful either. The 3 series just has a broader lineup with both sedans, coupes, convertibles, and wagons.
Camaros sold with a premium right out of the box--although I know that irked you .
I will say I don't get it. Sure the Camaro looks cool, but IMO, it's a disaster once you get in it. But the Camaro isn't competing against BMW or MB. That's a whole different league.
For many with excess cash, it's more of a novelty. I saw the same thing around where I live when the Smart car was introduced. BMWs, MBs Audis in the driveway, alongside a Smart.
The Smart is not longer in many of those driveways. I guess the novelty wore off.
IMO, it was a failure because it was rushed to the US market too soon. You couldn't even get Sat radio in the beginning, which was a given in the price range the G8 was selling at...
I doubt the average buyer knew it was basically a Holden model from Australia, nor would many of them cared. Ie had the Pontiac emblem on it, and those that bought it felt they were buying a Pontiac.
IMO, it was a failure because it was rushed to the US market too soon. You couldn't even get Sat radio in the beginning, which was a given in the price range the G8 was selling at...
I thought the G8 actually seemed like a lot of car for the money. I think there was some kind of voluntary quota on them, that GM could only bring so many of them over, before the UAW got pissed. And, bringing it over as a Pontiac, when that brand was at death's doorstep and about to ring the bell, wasn't the smartest move...
Personally, I think the G8 would've made a nice Buick Wildcat or Centurion.
Where I live now, Kent, OH, has a fleet of new Caprice police cars. I think it's too bad they're not available for civilian purchase, and that they're not built in the 'States. If they were, I'd be interested. Some time, I'd like to be able to ask a cop how he likes driving them.
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I doubt the average buyer knew it was basically a Holden model from Australia, nor would many of them cared. Ie had the Pontiac emblem on it, and those that bought it felt they were buying a Pontiac.
I guess we can agree to disagree on this point, as I think your average Camry/Accord/Fusion buyer wasn't looking at G8's. I never read a magazine article (and there were a bunch) that didn't mention its Holden lineage.
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Plus, I think we'd honestly have to conclude that a lot of people didn't know what to make of a car built in Australia.
We'd honestly agree the G-8 was the best car Pontiac sold here in the USA, right? And we also would honestly agree that GM made one of it's many blunders not offering it as a Chevy, right?
Here’s an example of throwing the baby out with the bath water. As General Motors barrels through bankruptcy and ditches the long-troubled Pontiac brand, along with it goes the G8 sports sedan. What a shame. The car started in price at $28,000 and the sticker price got close to $40,000 if you bought the high-powered GXP model. When is the last time a Pontiac sold for that kind of sticker price? You’d have to sell two G6 coupes to get that kind of money.
What’s more is that the cars were selling pretty well, especially considering how dismal this car market is. Sports car fans loved the roomy sedan that could be had with a 256-horsepower 3.6-liter V-6 or the 361-hp 6-liter and 4-2-hp 6.2-liter V-8 engines. It’s far better than the GTO was when it came back in 2004. Motor heads snapped up the G8 models as GM prepared to shut down production. Its Australian Holden unit made the last G8 in June.
Sure that last-minute rush pushed sales up. Still, G8 sales rose 150% last month. Pontiac, which everyone knows is dying, sold nearly 16,000 G8s this year.That’s more than Acura sold of its top-selling TL sedan and Infiniti sold of its G37 sedan. In other words, GM had a sporty sedan that was appointed with luxury amenities and sold at top-shelf prices.And out it goes.
All you needed to do was drive one and you would know. Too bad the dealers added that MAP. As for the Camaro, it is incentivized in every iteration at the moment. :surprise:
As for the ATS, I'll bet it's priced too high as a typical GM blunder. Then when sales drop off from the first few months, incentives will rear their ugly head. I'm just sayin'...
You certainly realize that the Camaro is in its third model year with virtually no change, right? What import is in its third year and similar price range, is now selling for sticker or more?
And I know, and I think you know, that if you and I went to our nearest Chevy dealer and looked for the latest Camaro with that monster engine (can't think of what they call it), it wouldn't be being discounted. In fact, I feel quite certain the opposite...there'd be additional markup on it.
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Ok, we can disagree, but it isn't a huge disagreement.
My main point was that I don't think it being Australian made was any big deal.
US customers are used to buying foreign made cars, ones made in Canada, Mexico, Japa, Korea, etc.
I personally have never heard any comment that could remotely tied to any perception (positive OR negative) about the G8 being built by Holden. I just don't think that fact entered into the buying formula one bit. Again, that's just my perception.
On another note, I see a lot of comments nowadays about incentives. IMO, what the manufacturers feared years ago has come to fruition... Buyers get addicted to incentives, and they (at least, some) will walk away from a better deal simply because no incentives were available on a particular model.
Incentives have become coupons for car buying. Whether or not its in rebates or special financing, I see incentives being a widespread factor in most cars being sold for the foreseeable future, excluding super-hot model introductions.
Personally, based upon incentives alone (and I'm talking reasonable incentives, not something like $3000 off of a $12000 vehicle) I find it difficult to link any disadvantage to any particular vehicle.
The local Chevrolet dealer near me discounts EVERY model. It's one of the ways he sells quite a few Corvettes. In fact, a few years ago, he claimed to sell more Corvettes than any other dealer in SC. Maybe he still does. I know when I bought one from him a few years back he discounted it thousands off of MSRP.
I guess it's easy enough to check out, though...just find a dealer with a hotrod Camaro on the lot and request an Internet price quote...
Never since 1990 have cars been as dependable. On the average, a car has 1.3 problems in the first three years of ownership. Last year, the number stood at 1.5 problems. 25 of 32 brands have improved in dependability from 2011, only six have declined and one has remained stable. Domestic nameplates have improved in 2012 at a slightly faster rate than imports, narrowing the dependability gap to 13 problems per 100 from 18 problems per 100 in 2011. Still, America’s most dependable cars aren’t American.
Toyota Motor Corporation received eight segment awards, more than any other automaker in 2012. Ford received three model awards, General Motors and Nissan receive two.
Not to nitpick, but I have issues with graphs like this.
Exactly what is a problem?
Did the car strand it's driver, or did he find it difficult to store a satellite radio station in the presets?
In the graph, there's no difference.
Of course, one could legitimately say that any issue that is reported as a problem counts, and I agree in general. Still, a seized engine is in a different ballpark than a loose door trim panel...
Comments
Factor in the TB clones and I don't believe 300K would rise to 830K.
Just sayin', this is so classic here. 3,996 got posted again and again (SRX), but nobody said a thing about 830K.
I'm not saying GM doesn't have recalls. It's just that on this board, folks act like they're the only one and put on the big blinders about everyone else, or post a three-year old closed review and pass it off as being new.
No kidding. What were they thinking? It looks like something the Joker would drive in a Batman movie.
Stongly agree. Wife has an 07 TL and will hang onto it until the next gen (2014?) comes along. Will take a look at it, maybe test drive and also consider other brands in this category. But, she probably would not consider buying anything from GM.
“We are having a lot of discussions about Acura and which way it should be going. And what we confirmed is that the brand direction should be smart premium, not top tier We agreed that smart premium is what we should be targeting with Acura, not the upper-segment vehicles such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz. We must apply advanced technologies which make our vehicle more fun to drive, achieve a more comfortable drive and high environmental performance. "
AKA, mediocrity...just like Buick. :surprise:
Keep that last gen TL as long as possible!!
Regards,
OW
I agree 100%.
I don't think I've seen a Lucerne Super. I have seen a few LaCrosse Supers over the years.
Didn't the lucerne Super use the 292 HP version of the Northstar? I don't think the 5.3 was ever placed in a Lucerne.
Lemko, you already have a Lucerne Super, it's basically a dopy looking version of a DTS performance.
I had to look it up on Wikipedia, but yeah, it looks like the Super, offered from 2008-2011, used the 292 hp Northstar. There was a 275 hp version used from 2006-2008, which I think was in the CXS model.
While the Super might be hard to come by, I don't think the CXS is particularly rare. I remember doing a local used car search a few months ago, and a few of them came up.
There was a guy at work who bought an Impala SS with the 5.3 V-8 a few years ago, and it wasn't long before he started crying about how much gas it used. :confuse:
Uh, yeah, but we're still talking about twelve versus six. I mean, you can count either's complaints on your fingers.
Perhaps NHTSA went to Toyota first as they used those parts in so many more vehicles.
The interesting thing is that the TB is an old school SUV, the RAV is a crossover, and the Camry is a sedan, so the parts' versatility means it could have been used in anything.
If indeed it's the same supplier. You wonder what other vehicles they went in.
Two CEOs walk in to a bar, Lutz orders power window switches, Toyoda says, "I'll have what he's having".
Make that...'fingers and toes'.
President Obama's proposed budget calls for boosting electric-car subsidies to $10,000, up from the present $7,500, even though plug-ins are typically bought by the wealthy.
That's significant because the election-year budget attempts to narrow deficits by increasing taxes on the wealthy.
If 10,000 electrics like the Chevrolet Volt extended-range sedan, a plug-in that qualifies for the subsidy, were sold a year, the program would cost taxpayers another $100 million a year,the Daily Caller points out, via Yahoo News.
Interestingly, the Daily Caller points to General Motors' statements that the cars are bought by individuals with an average family income of $170,000 a year, which would make them among the nation's top earners.
No wonder sales of Volts are so low. Now, it'll sell around 100 more per month as average family income affordability will drop to $150,000. Whoopee!!
Regards,
OW
Actually, depending on where in the US you live, $150K, or even $170K isn't all that much. Here's an interesting interactive map that lets you put in a household income, and you can see how it stacks up by region.
In the DC area, for example, if you want to be one of those elusive 1-percenters, you need a household income of at least $513K. $170K merely gets you into the top 17%. $150K? top 23%.
But then, if you live in a high-priced area, and have a few kids, that $150-170K won't go very far when you're trying to save for retirement, your kids' college education, a mortgage, etc. So, I guess that Volt could still be out of reach for many people.
10 of top 15 richest counties are in D.C. suburbs
http://wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2746965
I live in #12 but I'm surrounded on all sides by #1, 2, and 3.
#1 is Loudon, that's I'm-so-rich-I-own-a-ranch kind of money. You'd own more horses than cars.
#2 is CIA territory. If you told us how much you earned, you'd have to kill us.
#3 surprises me a little. Montgomery has more wealth but it's also more diverse, you have Takoma Park and Silver Spring keeping the average down.
Back to the Volt, it would really only be suitable for the close-in suburbs, so Fairfax and Montgomery counties, yes.
$10,000 in federal aid plus $2000 from the state of Maryland here, so $12k in subsidies. That's still, what, $28k for a small 4 seater? EV charging stations here at work are free, however.
I currently drive the previous generation TL, and I agree, it looks much better than the current generation. The current TL has no interest from me, and I doubt I'll be shopping Acura for a replacement.
Don't get me wrong, my TL has been near flawless at 118K miles. It's just that it's almost too big for my tastes. The current TL is too big and ugly; the TSX has gotten bloated and numb, too. I'd be looking at a premium compact sedan, or possibly a small SUV.
And at the same time, I'm surprised to NOT see Anne Arundel county on that list. I'd figure it would definitely have a lot more wealth than Southern Maryland.
I guess Southern Maryland does have those upscale, ritzy places on the Potomac and Patuxent Rivers, and Chesapeake Bay, but then AA County has its nosebleed sections such as Annapolis, Davidsonville, etc.
He got it in a fairly tasteful color though, a deep, rich midnight blue.
I'd go for the 2.0T 328-i (if you have the cash). ATS should be good but I doubt it'll beat the King.
Take a tour of the suspension at Inside Line. No one has this level of sophistication, period.
King Springs
If you like to drive, a whole lot, no comparison. :shades:
Regards,
OW
Great post...
While losses coming from Opel are obviously not a good thing for GM, they don’t bode well either for GM CEO Dan Akerson, the man who made the call to hold onto Opel during the automakers’ restructuring. Now, Bloomberg is reporting that Opel’s struggles will likely result in GM delivering its weakest quarterly performance since emerging from bankruptcy back in 2009.
In fact, the losses stemming from Opel are believed to be so great that they may drive GM’s European operations to a $358 million loss for Q4, compared to losses of just $292 million the previous quarter for the region. In case anyone is interested in keeping score, GM Europe has run a deficit of $14.7 billion since 1999 – posing a real risk to the global automaker as it continues to attempt to perform as the world’s largest automaker.
Akerson may also be faced with taking tough actions to shore up losses, with one analyst at Barclays Capital suggesting that GM may cut another 3,000- to 5,000 jobs in Europe, in addition to the 5,800 it has already disposed of.
Let's warm up the Bailout Funds.....
Regards,
OW
Same here. Wife's 07 TL has over 100k miles and has been flawless as well as my 04 TL at 90k miles. I am not ready for awhile to replace the 04 TL. I could be tempted with the new Cadillac ATS. Will wait for all the reviews, and, if excellent, might be interested in look-see and test drive. Expect that if great reviews, ATS will be in high demand with dealer markups.
Curious. Would think that people at that income have discriminating tastes and would want to buy a 3-Series, Audi, entry level Benz, even a Cadillac CTS rather than a Volt.
Considering how many BMW's and Mercedes sell a year vs a Volt you're correct.
Looks like the Volt is selling to those who want to use less fuel regardless of whether it makes economic sense.
Yep, just like the GTO and G8. That'll ensure sales skyrocket, right?
328i looks even better at that point! :shades:
Regards,
OW
Camaros sold with a premium right out of the box--although I know that irked you
GTO's and G8's got good reviews, except for styling (especially the GTO). Don't think that'll be an issue with the new Caddy.
Plus, I think we'd honestly have to conclude that a lot of people didn't know what to make of a car built in Australia. The Caddy won't have that issue, right?
I'm going to the Chicago Auto Show on Saturday, so I'll be anxious to see the ATS.
I really don't see the ATS challenging a 3 series in sales, but that doesn't mean it won't be successful either. The 3 series just has a broader lineup with both sedans, coupes, convertibles, and wagons.
I will say I don't get it. Sure the Camaro looks cool, but IMO, it's a disaster once you get in it. But the Camaro isn't competing against BMW or MB. That's a whole different league.
The Smart is not longer in many of those driveways. I guess the novelty wore off.
IMO, it was a failure because it was rushed to the US market too soon. You couldn't even get Sat radio in the beginning, which was a given in the price range the G8 was selling at...
I doubt the average buyer knew it was basically a Holden model from Australia, nor would many of them cared. Ie had the Pontiac emblem on it, and those that bought it felt they were buying a Pontiac.
I thought the G8 actually seemed like a lot of car for the money. I think there was some kind of voluntary quota on them, that GM could only bring so many of them over, before the UAW got pissed. And, bringing it over as a Pontiac, when that brand was at death's doorstep and about to ring the bell, wasn't the smartest move...
Personally, I think the G8 would've made a nice Buick Wildcat or Centurion.
...or a really nice Chevrolet Caprice or Impala.
You could speed, run a red light or stop sign, drive recklessly, etc.
:P
Australia.
I guess we can agree to disagree on this point, as I think your average Camry/Accord/Fusion buyer wasn't looking at G8's. I never read a magazine article (and there were a bunch) that didn't mention its Holden lineage.
We'd honestly agree the G-8 was the best car Pontiac sold here in the USA, right? And we also would honestly agree that GM made one of it's many blunders not offering it as a Chevy, right?
Here’s an example of throwing the baby out with the bath water. As General Motors barrels through bankruptcy and ditches the long-troubled Pontiac brand, along with it goes the G8 sports sedan. What a shame. The car started in price at $28,000 and the sticker price got close to $40,000 if you bought the high-powered GXP model. When is the last time a Pontiac sold for that kind of sticker price? You’d have to sell two G6 coupes to get that kind of money.
What’s more is that the cars were selling pretty well, especially considering how dismal this car market is. Sports car fans loved the roomy sedan that could be had with a 256-horsepower 3.6-liter V-6 or the 361-hp 6-liter and 4-2-hp 6.2-liter V-8 engines. It’s far better than the GTO was when it came back in 2004. Motor heads snapped up the G8 models as GM prepared to shut down production. Its Australian Holden unit made the last G8 in June.
Sure that last-minute rush pushed sales up. Still, G8 sales rose 150% last month. Pontiac, which everyone knows is dying, sold nearly 16,000 G8s this year. That’s more than Acura sold of its top-selling TL sedan and Infiniti sold of its G37 sedan. In other words, GM had a sporty sedan that was appointed with luxury amenities and sold at top-shelf prices. And out it goes.
All you needed to do was drive one and you would know. Too bad the dealers added that MAP. As for the Camaro, it is incentivized in every iteration at the moment. :surprise:
And that is for the brand spankin' new 2012!!
2012 Camaro Incentives
As for the ATS, I'll bet it's priced too high as a typical GM blunder. Then when sales drop off from the first few months, incentives will rear their ugly head. I'm just sayin'...
Regards,
OW
And I know, and I think you know, that if you and I went to our nearest Chevy dealer and looked for the latest Camaro with that monster engine (can't think of what they call it), it wouldn't be being discounted. In fact, I feel quite certain the opposite...there'd be additional markup on it.
You did see the Camaro incentive page. Hardly going for more than sticker. Even the halo ZL-1 has incentives!!
Regards,
OW
Wow, $500, and only for 'loyalty cash'. The sky is falling!
IOW, EVERYONE is paying less than sticker price. Wanted to make sure you understood.
Regards,
OW
My main point was that I don't think it being Australian made was any big deal.
US customers are used to buying foreign made cars, ones made in Canada, Mexico, Japa, Korea, etc.
I personally have never heard any comment that could remotely tied to any perception (positive OR negative) about the G8 being built by Holden. I just don't think that fact entered into the buying formula one bit. Again, that's just my perception.
On another note, I see a lot of comments nowadays about incentives. IMO, what the manufacturers feared years ago has come to fruition... Buyers get addicted to incentives, and they (at least, some) will walk away from a better deal simply because no incentives were available on a particular model.
Incentives have become coupons for car buying. Whether or not its in rebates or special financing, I see incentives being a widespread factor in most cars being sold for the foreseeable future, excluding super-hot model introductions.
Personally, based upon incentives alone (and I'm talking reasonable incentives, not something like $3000 off of a $12000 vehicle) I find it difficult to link any disadvantage to any particular vehicle.
BMW, MB to Kia all give incentives nowadays...
I guess it's easy enough to check out, though...just find a dealer with a hotrod Camaro on the lot and request an Internet price quote...
Toyota Motor Corporation received eight segment awards, more than any other automaker in 2012. Ford received three model awards, General Motors and Nissan receive two.
Regards,
OW
Exactly what is a problem?
Did the car strand it's driver, or did he find it difficult to store a satellite radio station in the presets?
In the graph, there's no difference.
Of course, one could legitimately say that any issue that is reported as a problem counts, and I agree in general. Still, a seized engine is in a different ballpark than a loose door trim panel...