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Comments
Not a shame in light of the congratulatory bailout success news going out as campaign propaganda for the status quo.
Some things never change.
When production gets cut later in the year, they can always pay the layed-off UAW workers to hang out at the Tavern!
Regards,
OW
You are correct in that some things that aren't changing is this decades long spending spree to support our lifestyles. Some things are changing and that is the Bill. Sometimes I feel like the designated-driver on News Year Eve, saying the party is near over, and the bill is coming due. And you're not going to be able to pay it.
So GM enjoy your bailout, give bonuses, bailout Peugeot, don't pay income tax, and stuff your dealers with inventory so Obama looks good, and the false positive news can flow. The day of reckoning may not come based on the Mayan calendar, but the day of reckoning is coming because of our finances.
Short-term fixes have been bought, just like a junkie paying for 1 more hit of heroin. The problem with our economy is overborrowing, overspending, and spending on inefficient and unproductive ventures. How's your infrastructure after the big Obama stimulus? All we're doing is kicking-the-can down the road, and it's getting bigger. This is going to end real ugly, my friends. We've spent trillions on this "recovery". Are you seeing the recovery Lemko? Phillie should be a paradise with that amount of $ spent.
Whatever crisis in the world blows up first in the next few years is going to sink GM and many others.
Swell. Now GM cars will have a four step operation to turn the headlights on.
You do realize most Americans have no idea how to responsibly spend money, so they continually waste it on lost causes like uber unreliable vehicles like the Neon.
I kept the Neon running beyond 3 years and 36,000 miles too, but it took a few fortnights in the shop from time to time and thousands and thousands of dollars.
You do realize things that break can be fixed, and fixed again, and fixed again and again?
Once you realize that, you will then see how some of those cars still run.
:P :P :P
There was a recent 24 hour Race where 3 faster Peugeot's were beating the team of Audi R15's until all 3 of them (the Peugeots) broke down and Audi got a 1, 2, 3 finish.
Just 4? Did you count the step where you have to bang on the dash a few times?
Government Motors is buying 7 percent of PSA Peugeot Citroen stock to become its second-largest shareholder, and the two will develop a parts and components purchasing alliance that will save $2 billion per year combined within five years.
Ya, we bailed out these clowns and they go on a shopping spree buying stake in non-American companies... :mad:
Buy American!!! Oh wait...
Oh ya, And French!!!
:sick:
If this were another company, you'd be all for it, even though the others have all received government help in their homelands past or recent.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So I take it you don't see a problem here? Wow, those are some rosy glasses you're wearing there... :sick:
Toyota building new plants in US = Bad
GM buying stake in the French after recieving 60 billion dollars from Americans = Kosher
Wow...
PSA Chairman Phillippe Varin - "Thank you for your vested interest in our company, we look forward to a bright future together"
"Coke Can Dan" Akerson - "Pffft, it's not my money..."
As I said before about GM, and this certainly goes for banks and Wall Street - they have called the government's bluff, and the government blinked. The banks, Wall Street, and GM all confirmed a few years ago, that regardless of what they do, regardless of how much risk or bad deals they make, the government will have to bail them out. Would you like a deal where you could take the equity out on your house, and go to a casino and bet it on the Craps table? And if you win you get to keep the proceeds, and if you lose and squander your money, well the government yells at you, but gives you your $ back?
That is what the bailouts created. As an aside, go do some research and see whether the Big Banks are smaller or bigger then they were in 2008. And see if you can find out if the same sort of derivative trading is going on. There's very little to stop another financial collapse, hurting the economy, and dragging GM under again. GM should be holding onto any profits and cash they can.
Oui! Oiu!
Just goes to show you that certain corporate behaviors are embedded in their DNA. Like stupidity. Many of us knew the Volt was a bad idea, many of us knew saw that 10 divisions were a bad idea, and now many of us know that Pugeot is a bad idea. They seem to want to do ANYTHING other than continual pursuit of excellence in their own vehicles!
Your tax dollars at work.
And do you have any links that compare how much "help" was received in relation to the >>$60billion in loans and gifts that GM received? (not counting the years of income tax-free profits)
A.K.A. "Everybody else is a crack addict, it's ok if I'm a crack addict, and I can snort a bunch more than everybody else..."
Chrysler Execs should all be tried for TREASON!
GUILTY!
Send them all to Guantanamo!
There is been a constant move to the right the place is supposed to be run by corporations rather than people. The Supreme Court is for likely to recognize GM as a person than it is an 8 month old fetus. The corporations intend to take over and to do it with out tax dollars as best they can.
Oh, yeah, if someone would like to yell at me for a few hours in exchange for a couple billion dollars I'm free on Friday. I need to see the money up front first.
Government Motors concedes to Khulumani in apartheid reparations case
The Government Motors settlement this week is important partly because it was a voluntary engagement on the part of the company, according to Jobson. While GM was not required by the court to admit liability, the payment of damages amounts to a tacit acknowledgement of responsibility. The settlement is to the tune of $1,5-million in shares in the new GM, when it emerges from bankruptcy – not a lot of money, but Jobson sees the settlement as symbolically important as much as anything else.
"What's good for GM is good for GM" (screw America) :lemon:
Intend to take over? It's already done, and GM is actually one of the not so bad guys.
Interesting Peugeot move...Peugeot is linked with Citroen, a DS3 or C6 would be pretty cool.
Buick and Cadillac were down, GMC flat, Chevy was up.
Let's see how the overall market does.
Interesting that Buick and Cadillac continue to decline. Supposedly the recovery is helping the 1%er's the most or the top 10%. Seeing that they're doing well, it's obvious that group isn't buying Cadillacs. So who are Cadillacs appealing to then? They're appealing to people who can't afford to buy them? That means Cadillac is in no-man's-land. And GM's "premiere" "standard-of-the-world" division, is not really good enough, or have enough brand-prestige to compete with the premium vehicles of the world.
Buick - the Regal certainly has not become a volume car that they need. At least I used to see Centuries on the road! C'mon Buick, take the Camaro platform, fix the claustophobic nature, put in the 3,6DI, and give us a split-window Riviera, for under $30K.
My wife would like a new Buick LaCrosse CSX, but her 2005 LaCrosse is still a champ!
The Volt is a short wheelbase Cruze and has 4 seats. Cruze is more car for less cost, any way you look at it.
Yeah, but the Cruze doesn't give you that same warm, fuzzy, I-hugged-a-tree-today feeling. :P
Can you really get a Cruze for $169 per month? That sounds downright cheap to me? Honestly, even the $349 for a Volt sounds cheap. That's about what the monthly payment on my 2000 Intrepid was, over 12 years ago!
But yeah, point well taken. There's no way in hell the Volt is going to save you $180 per month over the Cruze.
Let us not forget the GM bailout is really only part of the story. They bailed out friends and family of GM too. GMAC was really a WIFE of GM.
Hell of a divorce settlement for all. AIG's bailout helped wall street and others as well.
I'm talking business here. It cost too much to develop, and it is too expensive, and it is selling WAAAAAY below expectations - even WITH increasing gas prices.
GM hates itself. No need to add any fuel to the fire.
Of course, genius management can make this story a Cinderella one. What are the odds??
Regards,
OW
No doubt unless you put down a substantial down payment. I'd bet the average payment on a Cruze is in the $300-350/mo range. Depending on term. Seems more and more people are going 72 mos.
2012 CHEVROLET CRUZE w/MZ0/2LS
$159/month 39 month lease. $1,589 due at signing (after all offers). Includes security deposit. Tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment extra. Mileage charge of $0.20 /mile over 39,000 miles.
I was $10 high. So you'd have to save $190 a month to come out ahead with the smaller 4-seat Volt. It's just not possible to ever break even.
Sure it's subsidized, but I'm comparing apples to apples, lease vs. lease, and let's not forget the Volt lease has MUCH higher subsidies, including the $7500 from the fed, if you even qualify.
If you want green in your wallet, get the long wheelbase model with an extra seat instead. Remember, they share a platform.
The Chevrolet Volt is actually an engineering marvel...I wouldn't judge it so severely. It's powertrain makes sense in this nasty ghastly environment. I'd like to drive one for a month and plug-in, drive, keep close notes on ghastly mileage, see how comfortable the ride is, etc. Then get back to y'all.
Walk a mile in the Volt's owner's shoes, don't ya know?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Best-case scenario let's say you use the full 35 mile EV range every single day. Other 4 seat compacts, well, 5 seats really, are routinely getting 30/40 mpg ratings, so let's say you save about a gallon of gas a day.
Keep in mind that once the 35 miles are used up, the Volt is far less efficient, but we are looking at an ideal, best-case scenario, so let's ignore that for now.
So 1 gallon of gas a day, let's also assume every month has 31 days, you're saving 31 times the price of a gallon of gas.
To make up that $190 premium per month, gas would have to cost $6.13 or more per gallon.
And you would need free electricity.
And you could not drive more than 35 miles a day.
And you could not drive less than 35 miles a day.
And you would need a free 220v outlet.
And you would STILL give up the 5th seat and some interior room.
Point is, you get a Volt for other reasons. You won't ever break even, though, and many people are OK with that.
Why do they charge more the more you use? Because there is no great overcapacity of electricity generation or transport in the infrastructure. States like CA frequently experience rolling brown-out and ask for voluntary reductions. A fleet of Volts would not make it, as not everyone is going to recharge at night, and not everyone is going to have high-voltage; so recharging will probably start around 6pm.
The Volt is too expensive to serve the purpose of an economy car. It is similar to a Hummer which was purchased by posers and wealthy-off-roaders, but not something that is available to the masses, who would choose a used Jeep. Therefore you will never see vehicles like Hummers and Volts sell in mass, and therefore it will not be a major part of what people are driving.
Cars like the Volt will make it when they cost the same, and provide the same comfort, power and other qualities as ICE vvehicles.
So ... ? Haven't they had new models in the last few years like the SRX, the CTS-V? etc. those models were supposed to be just what Cadillac needed to. So why are those new models really going to change anything. Have the new models of Lincoln really changed much? Has Buick's new models like the Regal, Verona, and redesigned Lacrosse really helped their sales?
Optimism and $1 will get you a coffee at McD's.
The memo, sent to employees of GE Healthcare Americas team explains that all sedan, crossover, and minivan purchases in 2012 will be replaced by the Chevy Volt. Only field engineers are exempt from having to drive a company Volt.
People saw both the ATS and the XTS on the auto show circuit, so Caddy buyers may be waiting on the sidelines for those.
link title
That’s because none of the $2 billion in annual savings that the automakers project they eventually will split evenly from joint purchasing and sharing platforms and capital expenditures will show up any time soon.
The first jointly produced vehicles -- mostly small and mid-sized cars -- won’t arrive until 2016. :sick:
Yes but I mentioned the "V". That was just uppdated from 400 and some hp to 550-hp a year or 2 ago. A halo car right? The BMW M and AMG fighter, but at a lower cost. Has GM hurt either BMW M or AMG sales much? I'm just saying new models are like baseball teams in spring training - if things just go a little their way, they'll be in the World Series.
People saw both the ATS and the XTS on the auto show circuit, so Caddy buyers may be waiting on the sidelines for those.
But Cadillac and Buick need customers who are going to be alive to buy another vehicle in a few years! The problem with those 2 is that their brands have been damaged from their heyday, and it is tough to rebuild that brand image. People who really have $$ - like the Wall Street types are buying more prestigious makes, and people who are becoming doctors and lawyers are not running out and buying domestic either. The brands are "tween" what the rich want, and what the masses can afford, with a lot of people remembering what Buick and Cadillac were like in the 80' and 90's.
I know I've seen the pictures here, but I honestly can't remember anything distinct or memorable about the ATS or XTS. If I were to have the means and desire to get a luxury car right now, I'd get a Jaguar XJ.
Give communities and states $$ to buy a police version. Consider all the gas that could be saved, when you see the Crown Vics and Chargers sitting there idling in the median or at some construction site.
How about requiring all new non-van taxis, have to be Volts?
Can you mount a snow-plow on a Volt? LOL
Maybe GM can make a deal with Apple, that the IPad4 is only available with the purchase of a Volt, as it is only sold as a removeable piece of the infotainment system?
Can't wait for that Peugeot technology and quality to seep into GM vehicles! Pontiac (Daewoo) Lemans of circa-1990, deja vu?
ATS should do some volume, given the price point. XTS will capture all the former DTS buyers.
Buick exists because of China, mostly.