5 years is nothing. The wife's 2007 Honda Civic is about exactly 5 years old and 44,000 miles. Took it in to Honda today because it was making strange noises, and it wasn't while braking. Turns out it was the brake sensors apparently telling us that it's time to change the pads and fluid.
Might as well do the power steering fluid too.
Is the Civic an economy car, or a premium car?
This is the first out of warranty visit, and it only had 2 in warranty visits during its lifetime thus far. One for a trim piece that didn't fit perfectly, and faulty window regulator (same visit), and another for the dumb stupidly cheaply made window visor replacement issue.
I'd have no problem having a 60 month payment on a Honda if the rate was low enough (which right now would be .9% or lower
However, based on my prior Dodge experience, 60 months is about the lifetime of a Chrysler product, so you might as well lease them if you have to buy American. Buying American is like taking a lease with almost 0.00 residual value after 60 months.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Hahahah! Actually, Honda openly admits they use short-life pads as OEM and often have people come in as early as 30K to get them replaced.
Short life doesn't necessarily mean cheap though, it might be that they are extra quiet, produce less brake dust, and have superior stopping power in exchange for shorter lifespan. I know that last one isn't true though :P
But they do seem to be fairly "dust and noise" free. Well, noise free until they are down to 1-3 mm.
Also, my wife tends to drive semi-aggressively, so I'm sure the brakes get a workout every now and then.
Rest assured, we got every ounce of life out of these original pads.
But these things aren't annoying because it didn't require a Tow Truck. Problems that cause failures to operate are my pet peeves.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Root of this problem goes back to Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), Franklin Raines, Acorn.
What about the root cause being horribly inaccurate, bad, and downright fraudulent appraisals. The appraisers sole purpose of existence is to verify the prices on the loan are real, and not artificially inflated. Why were loans for 300K allowed on homes clearly worth 250K.
The whole job and industry of appraisals was completely useless. Why do we even pay those guys. I laugh that banks still use them. You'd be better off hiring a monkey that throws darts at a board with price appraisal values on them.
There must be some kickback from appraisers to banks. Something along the lines of, hey, keep making homeowners pay $400 for the appraisal, and I'll give you a kickback of $100 for every one you send my way.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
My wife's car will be with us seven years in six days with 62K+ on it. So far, so good. Financed it for five, paid it off in three. Had 1% financing on her ride. Despite the low interest, I just don't like to owe people money. I don't really consider the car as belonging to me until it's paid for. Until then, I may own a fraction of a car, but the bank can still take it away if I don't pay the remainder. I guess I'm just old school.
Did the same for my 2007 Cadillac DTS. Financed it for five years, paid it off in three despite having a 0% loan from GMAC/Ally.
Why were loans for 300K allowed on homes clearly worth 250K.
My sister timed the market well and just bought a short sale. Her price paid was 410k and the previous owner had a loan balance of 770k. Nearly double.
My Cobalt has 55K on its original brakes. No noises or anything feeling funky yet. Damn Hondas!
I'll see your Cobalt and raise you an ION. My '06 has 65K on it and still has the original pads and shoes.
My old '02 Saturn L300 was a different story. Since it had European roots, it used softer pads that needed to be changed more frequently. Had to replace the front rotors twice in 97K miles, too.
I'll see your Cobalt and raise you an ION. My '06 has 65K on it and still has the original pads and shoes.
My Suburban had the original pads F & R when I traded it in with 106k or so. Not that it means, much, it probably had the worst braking performance of any vehicle I've ever owned.
My 07 Expedition needed pads F&R around 70k, but I do more in town driving than I used too.
My sister timed the market well and just bought a short sale. Her price paid was 410k and the previous owner had a loan balance of 770k. Nearly double.
A house across the street from me just sold for $152,500. It had been listed as a short sale for $162,900. It had last sold in November 2007 for...are you ready for this? $375,000!
I had thought about buying it myself when I saw that $162K pricetag. But, the last thing I need is more real estate in this corrupt county!
Funny thing is, years ago, when I was recovering from my divorce, I tried to get one of those loans on my condo where they'd let you borrow more than what the place was worth. My rationale was that if I could make the ~$800/mo mortgage, and the ~$550/mo debt repayment, then I could easily handle a consolidated mortgage payment that would have run, in my estimation, around $1000-1100 per month. I was declined but, get this...it was because my situation, while shaky, wasn't BAD ENOUGH, in their opinion! They were looking for people who were so deep in debt that they'd never get out, and would hand themselves, where I would have been the type who really would use a situation like this to pay it down quicker.
So I'm convinced that, in many cases, these mortgage companies WANTED the homeowners to fail, so that they could get the house! They just hadn't counted on so many people defaulting, and almost taking the banks down with them.
Agreed on the Chrysler product. I leased a 2011 Grand Cherokee, great car...leaps and bounds above its predecessor, but still a quality disaster. I can't imagine owning this thing after the warranty expires. This vehicle rivals my sister's Acadia for quality problems, and the Acadia set the bar VERY low.
I wish someone could make a vehicle that's both fun to drive AND reliable. If I could combine the features/drive of the Jeep with the quality of my 4Runners I'd be set. Just seems like you always have to choose between reliability or fun. Such a shame.
Lemko, no wonder you like the '70 Caprice...got a little bit o' '63 and '64 Cadillac thing going on over the headlights!
I wish in '70 one could still get bucket seats or at least the Strato-back seats with center armrest in a Caprice coupe. Still, a great-looking car and the interiors went south beginning in '71 I think.
I can plainly remember seeing a light blue '70 Caprice Sport Sedan for the first time...being cleaned up before introduction day in the little 'prep' building at our hometown Chevy dealer. The old salesman, Virgil, said to me on my bike, "Five thousand for a Chevy. Never thought I'd see it. You can buy a Buick or Olds for that!"
Now I wonder if he was trying to get me to stop hanging out there and move on to the Buick and Olds dealer?!
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
In profile, I like our '11 Malibu better than the '13. I like our car's long rear doors. I like the new car's taillights better, and I'd say the front end is a draw.
Inside, the new car is plusher and has a glossy, non-woodgrain trim panel in the center which I like. The door panels look soft. I'd say the interior in the new car is better, but legroom looks less in the back which is a negative to me.
I'd definitely consider one. If I could save $$ by not buying the 'Eco' at some point, I'd probably do that. As I've said, 'notorious cheapskate'. If I'm spending in the 20's, I wouldn't want a car any smaller than this new Malibu.
So yes, I'd absolutely consider one. I'm years and thousands of miles away from that at this point though.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Actually, Honda openly admits they use short-life pads as OEM and often have people come in as early as 30K to get them replaced.
Depends on where you drive of course and driving habits. My wife just recently had the first brake job, new pads, rotor resurfacing, on her 2007 Acura TL with 105K miles.
Years ago, to get better brake performance for driving my Firebird on the twisties, put on sintered metallic linings. They were great. No fade, but a small amount of screeching. Great performance, BUT. Not to good unless the pads, rotors heated up a bit. Quite a surprise when coming to the first stop sign two blocks away on morning commute. Other problem was rapid rotor wear rate.
They don't put a lot of miles on their car, at least.
I hope this latest re-boot of the Chrysler corporation does manage to produce some long-lasting products. I still have a bit of a lust for the Charger, although most likely I'm just going to buy my Mom's '08 Altima off of her and call it a day. The kind of Charger I want is stickering for around$27K +TTL at Fitzmall, whereas I think Mom might let me have the Altima for around $12K.
I wonder if a Hemi would still spike insurance rates at my age (42 in less than a month)? Actually, I should probably check to see how much insurance is going to be on Mom's Altima. When I went from the Intrepid to the Park Ave, my rate actually went down. I guess even though it was a much faster car, it was still considered safer since it was bigger, a Buick, and as Park Aves are mainly driven by older people, claims rates are probably pretty low. The Altima might jack my rate too for all I know, since it's smaller and lighter. And even though I'm sure it's perfectly safe, they might still have higher accident/claims rates and such.
Subject: Update on 2012 Camaro ZL1 Shipments and DOSP
The purpose of this note is to provide you with an update on 2012 Camaro ZL1 production and vehicle shipment plans.
All Camaro ZL1 models produced to date are currently being held by General Motors for a quality assessment. At this moment, the duration of the hold is undetermined, and may last a few more weeks. As soon as the hold is cleared, a note will be sent to all dealers to advise that 2012 Camaro ZL1 shipments are underway.
Because of the hold, the upcoming Dealer Order Submission Process (DOSP) cycle that was to be dedicated to ZL1 is being postponed. This DOSP cycle was scheduled to start this Thursday, March 1, 2012, and continues through Tuesday, March 6, 2012. A new date for this DOSP cycle will be provided in the near future.
We regret to have to undertake these actions, especially given the high anticipation for the new Camaro ZL1. We ask for your patience and will continue to keep you posted on any developments regarding production and vehicle shipments from Oshawa.
Sincerely,
Russell M. Clark Director – Chevrolet Small Cars, Small Utilities and Performance Cars Marketing
I have a soft spot for wagons, both modern and vintage, but they just don't seem to sell well against the CUV's and Minivans in today's American market. They are picking up steam and interest at the old car events and auctions though. Chevy's - Personally, I like their wagons from 58 through 64, but in general I think I prefer Ford and Mopar wagons from yesteryear. When I was a teenager seemed like a lot of my friend's mom's had Rambler wagons for whatever reason (maybe because Chicago was close to Kenosha, WI).
Nice car. Did you spend a lot of your youth looking backwards at the world - Mopar was an early adapter of rear facing 3rd rows and roll down tailgate windows. Japan Inc put out some nice wagons in the 80's and the Maxima's were certainly one of the best.
They are being discounted? They're not even at dealers yet.
Time to take that Rx.
Again, when they show up, I'd like to see what dealers are selling them for. They will go for sticker or damn close...I wouldn't doubt dealers will add markup as I remember on the first SS Camaros I saw in '09.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Rocky, only far-smaller recalls of GM cars are discussed here. Any other competitors' products can be discussed here, but no one seems to ever post any large foreign-nameplate recalls; only GM's. This recall will be considered part of some vast government conspiracy.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I have a soft spot for wagons, both modern and vintage, but they just don't seem to sell well against the CUV's and Minivans in today's American market.
Had a Chevy Caprice full size station wagon and, quality aside, was a very functional and comfortable vehicle. Had a Chevy Suburban and it was much better than the wagon. Now have a minivan Honda Ody and would say that this type of vehicle is way more practical, functional than was the Chevy full-size station wagon.
Cannot see the full-size wagon as viable, coming back when alternatives such as mini-vans, SUVs and CUVs are more practical.
Concerning the huge Toyota recall of this week, I did something I rarely do...I looked at the "Toyota on the mend?" forum. Not a single word about it there.
I believe that even the biggest GM detractors who post regularly on this board would have to...have to...confess, that if the recall were GM's, it would have been posted here the same day.
I didn't post anything over on the Toyota board...it's not for me to, you know, in their Wheaties over there.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Not true, mcdawgg posted at 5am, not specific, but warning that the hate parade was coming.
You keep implying there are no haters in Toyota threads but there are plenty. After the tsunami last year they were spewing Hate, saying they deserved it, etc. Many, many posts had to be deleted by the Moderators.
Maybe if you had read those you wouldn't have this "holier than thou" attitude. :lemon:
And then when we do get the odd wagon, it isn't marketed at all, is offered only in the most boring format (V6 slushbox TSX, I am talking to you), nobody buys it, so then the band of overpaid underworked cookie cutter MBAs can thump their chests and say "we were right, nobody wants wagons" and then dump another ungainly bland crossover on the market.
>week, I did something I rarely do...I looked at the "Toyota on the mend?" forum. Not a single word about it there.
Naaah. Those are the perfect cars. Nothing ever goes wrong.
They've got a snoop-dog or somebody over there that keeps trying to taunt the toyota haters into posting there. Wish he'd bird dog his way over here and handle the haters who post meaningly things over and over.
You don't think the moderators should step in when people post tastelessly like they did? Children died and the guy was cheering like it was good news. Pathetic. :lemon:
It was far worse than anything I've seen in this thread.
They are being discounted? They're not even at dealers yet.
One did arrive but was recalled and shipped back.
Doran confirmed that one ZL1 was shipped "inadvertently" to a Chevy dealer in Texas: "That dealer prematurely delivered the car to a customer, so we had to go get the car back (because) we had not approved the car for sale."
ALL Camaros have incentives.
Model Year Rebate Expires Source Camaro 2012 Financing Incentive: 1.9% to 3.9% 04/30/2012
Ford caught a lot of slack for not meeting SAE HP targets on hot rod Mustangs. Those are the types of owners who will dyno them to find out. Wonder if it could be something like that?
Comments
Might as well do the power steering fluid too.
Is the Civic an economy car, or a premium car?
This is the first out of warranty visit, and it only had 2 in warranty visits during its lifetime thus far. One for a trim piece that didn't fit perfectly, and faulty window regulator (same visit), and another for the dumb stupidly cheaply made window visor replacement issue.
I'd have no problem having a 60 month payment on a Honda if the rate was low enough (which right now would be .9% or lower
However, based on my prior Dodge experience, 60 months is about the lifetime of a Chrysler product, so you might as well lease them if you have to buy American. Buying American is like taking a lease with almost 0.00 residual value after 60 months.
My Cobalt has 55K on its original brakes. No noises or anything feeling funky yet. Damn Hondas!
Short life doesn't necessarily mean cheap though, it might be that they are extra quiet, produce less brake dust, and have superior stopping power in exchange for shorter lifespan. I know that last one isn't true though :P
But they do seem to be fairly "dust and noise" free. Well, noise free until they are down to 1-3 mm.
Also, my wife tends to drive semi-aggressively, so I'm sure the brakes get a workout every now and then.
Rest assured, we got every ounce of life out of these original pads.
But these things aren't annoying because it didn't require a Tow Truck. Problems that cause failures to operate are my pet peeves.
What about the root cause being horribly inaccurate, bad, and downright fraudulent appraisals. The appraisers sole purpose of existence is to verify the prices on the loan are real, and not artificially inflated. Why were loans for 300K allowed on homes clearly worth 250K.
The whole job and industry of appraisals was completely useless. Why do we even pay those guys. I laugh that banks still use them. You'd be better off hiring a monkey that throws darts at a board with price appraisal values on them.
There must be some kickback from appraisers to banks. Something along the lines of, hey, keep making homeowners pay $400 for the appraisal, and I'll give you a kickback of $100 for every one you send my way.
Did the same for my 2007 Cadillac DTS. Financed it for five years, paid it off in three despite having a 0% loan from GMAC/Ally.
My sister timed the market well and just bought a short sale. Her price paid was 410k and the previous owner had a loan balance of 770k. Nearly double.
I wouldn't call that typical, but it happened.
I'll see your Cobalt and raise you an ION. My '06 has 65K on it and still has the original pads and shoes.
My old '02 Saturn L300 was a different story. Since it had European roots, it used softer pads that needed to be changed more frequently. Had to replace the front rotors twice in 97K miles, too.
My Suburban had the original pads F & R when I traded it in with 106k or so. Not that it means, much, it probably had the worst braking performance of any vehicle I've ever owned.
My 07 Expedition needed pads F&R around 70k, but I do more in town driving than I used too.
A house across the street from me just sold for $152,500. It had been listed as a short sale for $162,900. It had last sold in November 2007 for...are you ready for this? $375,000!
I had thought about buying it myself when I saw that $162K pricetag. But, the last thing I need is more real estate in this corrupt county!
Funny thing is, years ago, when I was recovering from my divorce, I tried to get one of those loans on my condo where they'd let you borrow more than what the place was worth. My rationale was that if I could make the ~$800/mo mortgage, and the ~$550/mo debt repayment, then I could easily handle a consolidated mortgage payment that would have run, in my estimation, around $1000-1100 per month. I was declined but, get this...it was because my situation, while shaky, wasn't BAD ENOUGH, in their opinion! They were looking for people who were so deep in debt that they'd never get out, and would hand themselves, where I would have been the type who really would use a situation like this to pay it down quicker.
So I'm convinced that, in many cases, these mortgage companies WANTED the homeowners to fail, so that they could get the house! They just hadn't counted on so many people defaulting, and almost taking the banks down with them.
I wish someone could make a vehicle that's both fun to drive AND reliable. If I could combine the features/drive of the Jeep with the quality of my 4Runners I'd be set. Just seems like you always have to choose between reliability or fun. Such a shame.
I wish in '70 one could still get bucket seats or at least the Strato-back seats with center armrest in a Caprice coupe. Still, a great-looking car and the interiors went south beginning in '71 I think.
I can plainly remember seeing a light blue '70 Caprice Sport Sedan for the first time...being cleaned up before introduction day in the little 'prep' building at our hometown Chevy dealer. The old salesman, Virgil, said to me on my bike, "Five thousand for a Chevy. Never thought I'd see it. You can buy a Buick or Olds for that!"
Now I wonder if he was trying to get me to stop hanging out there and move on to the Buick and Olds dealer?!
Inside, the new car is plusher and has a glossy, non-woodgrain trim panel in the center which I like. The door panels look soft. I'd say the interior in the new car is better, but legroom looks less in the back which is a negative to me.
I'd definitely consider one. If I could save $$ by not buying the 'Eco' at some point, I'd probably do that. As I've said, 'notorious cheapskate'. If I'm spending in the 20's, I wouldn't want a car any smaller than this new Malibu.
So yes, I'd absolutely consider one. I'm years and thousands of miles away from that at this point though.
Regards,
OW
1969 COPO 9560/ZL1 427 cu in (7.0 L) V8 430 hp (321 kW) @ 5200 rpm, 450 lb·ft (610 N·m) @ 4400 rpm :shades:
Regards,
OW
Depends on where you drive of course and driving habits. My wife just recently had the first brake job, new pads, rotor resurfacing, on her 2007 Acura TL with 105K miles.
Years ago, to get better brake performance for driving my Firebird on the twisties, put on sintered metallic linings. They were great. No fade, but a small amount of screeching. Great performance, BUT. Not to good unless the pads, rotors heated up a bit. Quite a surprise when coming to the first stop sign two blocks away on morning commute. Other problem was rapid rotor wear rate.
I'm hoping dad's new 200C holds up...
They don't put a lot of miles on their car, at least.
I prefer the wagon over the 5 door. What do you guys think?
That's a sharp looking car, very practical, not big yet roomy enough to haul around a family.
2 diesel engines options available in Europe, too.
They don't put a lot of miles on their car, at least.
I hope this latest re-boot of the Chrysler corporation does manage to produce some long-lasting products. I still have a bit of a lust for the Charger, although most likely I'm just going to buy my Mom's '08 Altima off of her and call it a day. The kind of Charger I want is stickering for around$27K +TTL at Fitzmall, whereas I think Mom might let me have the Altima for around $12K.
Not the Altima in particular, just any mainstream, already-been-depreciated sedan.
Actually, one equipped like this is enough to make me happy. Although I don't think I'd go for red. And I noticed it's now around $28K, so I guess there was some incentive that went away.
I wonder if a Hemi would still spike insurance rates at my age (42 in less than a month)? Actually, I should probably check to see how much insurance is going to be on Mom's Altima. When I went from the Intrepid to the Park Ave, my rate actually went down. I guess even though it was a much faster car, it was still considered safer since it was bigger, a Buick, and as Park Aves are mainly driven by older people, claims rates are probably pretty low. The Altima might jack my rate too for all I know, since it's smaller and lighter. And even though I'm sure it's perfectly safe, they might still have higher accident/claims rates and such.
40+, married? Insurance shouldn't be too bad.
I doubt the Altima will be bad either, unless it's a V6 SE manual or something.
03/02/2012
Ref. number:
Sales / New Vehicles / G_0000109294
Subject:
Update on 2012 Camaro ZL1 Shipments and DOSP
The purpose of this note is to provide you with an update on 2012 Camaro ZL1 production and vehicle shipment plans.
All Camaro ZL1 models produced to date are currently being held by General Motors for a quality assessment. At this moment, the duration of the hold is undetermined, and may last a few more weeks. As soon as the hold is cleared, a note will be sent to all dealers to advise that 2012 Camaro ZL1 shipments are underway.
Because of the hold, the upcoming Dealer Order Submission Process (DOSP) cycle that was to be dedicated to ZL1 is being postponed. This DOSP cycle was scheduled to start this Thursday, March 1, 2012, and continues through Tuesday, March 6, 2012. A new date for this DOSP cycle will be provided in the near future.
We regret to have to undertake these actions, especially given the high anticipation for the new Camaro ZL1. We ask for your patience and will continue to keep you posted on any developments regarding production and vehicle shipments from Oshawa.
Sincerely,
Russell M. Clark
Director – Chevrolet Small Cars, Small Utilities and
Performance Cars Marketing
Regards,
OW
-Rocky
One of my favorites of cars I've actually owned was an 87 Maxima wagon. Loved that thing.
Regards,
OW
Time to take that Rx.
Again, when they show up, I'd like to see what dealers are selling them for. They will go for sticker or damn close...I wouldn't doubt dealers will add markup as I remember on the first SS Camaros I saw in '09.
Had a Chevy Caprice full size station wagon and, quality aside, was a very functional and comfortable vehicle. Had a Chevy Suburban and it was much better than the wagon. Now have a minivan Honda Ody and would say that this type of vehicle is way more practical, functional than was the Chevy full-size station wagon.
Cannot see the full-size wagon as viable, coming back when alternatives such as mini-vans, SUVs and CUVs are more practical.
I believe that even the biggest GM detractors who post regularly on this board would have to...have to...confess, that if the recall were GM's, it would have been posted here the same day.
I didn't post anything over on the Toyota board...it's not for me to, you know, in their Wheaties over there.
Psst, this is a GM thread.
As for the Toyota thread, looks like xlu is slacking off...
Wagons used to command a $1000 or so premium compared to the sedans they were based on. Look at crossovers - it's more like $4-5 grand extra.
I'm sure the profit margins are much greater, too.
Not true, mcdawgg posted at 5am, not specific, but warning that the hate parade was coming.
You keep implying there are no haters in Toyota threads but there are plenty. After the tsunami last year they were spewing Hate, saying they deserved it, etc. Many, many posts had to be deleted by the Moderators.
Maybe if you had read those you wouldn't have this "holier than thou" attitude. :lemon:
And then when we do get the odd wagon, it isn't marketed at all, is offered only in the most boring format (V6 slushbox TSX, I am talking to you), nobody buys it, so then the band of overpaid underworked cookie cutter MBAs can thump their chests and say "we were right, nobody wants wagons" and then dump another ungainly bland crossover on the market.
Naaah. Those are the perfect cars. Nothing ever goes wrong.
They've got a snoop-dog or somebody over there that keeps trying to taunt the toyota haters into posting there. Wish he'd bird dog his way over here and handle the haters who post meaningly things over and over.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It was far worse than anything I've seen in this thread.
I'm glad to see you have finally come to your senses. :P
One did arrive but was recalled and shipped back.
Doran confirmed that one ZL1 was shipped "inadvertently" to a Chevy dealer in Texas: "That dealer prematurely delivered the car to a customer, so we had to go get the car back (because) we had not approved the car for sale."
ALL Camaros have incentives.
Model Year Rebate Expires Source
Camaro 2012 Financing Incentive: 1.9% to 3.9% 04/30/2012
Source
GM
03/05/2012
Regards,
OW
What I'm curious about is - why are they keeping the problem a secret? Quality issue? They can't be more specific?
Regards,
OW
I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later.
Model Year Rebate Expires Source
Camaro 2012 Financing Incentive: 1.9% to 3.9% 04/30/2012
Yes...all Camaros that are now available to customers.
My bet is that when the ZL-1 is out, the website will say "excludes ZL-1".