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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I love "Collectible Automobile!" I have every issue back to May 1984!

    Don't you love how they have designer renderings and the like, that you never see anyplace else! That, and they track down stylists and engineers and interview them, which is great.

    Speaking of that mag--I got pics this morning of my old white Lark Daytona Skytop R1 in Australia. It took a pretty severe hit a few months back on the right side and is being rebuilt now. The guy got what to me is a staggering insurance check (at least in Oz dollars) to rebuild it and is doing just that. Wish I could post them someplace on one of these forums.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I also love the fact they're not the typical 1957 Chevrolet/Mustang/Thunderbird/muscle car/exotic car magazine. They feature a lot of cars in which I find immense interest like the 1971-76 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight that's in the current issue. The articles are very informative. The photography is stellar!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I remember in '72 when the Ninety-Eight Regency was introduced for Olds' 75th anniversary. First car I'm aware of that had the loose-pillow interior look. Nothing at Cadillac could compare at the time, at least in my 14-year old mind. It was a magnificent car.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    One area in which I'm a snob, and I admit it, is buying a used car. The PT I bought my daughter two years ago, was my first used car since my first car, and my parents gave me that car when they bought a new one for themselves.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    One area in which I'm a snob, and I admit it, is buying a used car.

    I understand, but some vehicles just aren't worth buying new (I do love new cars though). I saved over $20k buying my Expedition 1 year old with 30k miles on it. I don't need a new one that bad. I'm not going to spend $50k on something that my kids, their friends, and our dog is going to climb all over, spill stuff in, and generally trash.

    Pickups are a little different, they seem to hold their value much better. I've been looking at 1-2 year old F150's and I don't think I'd save $5k buying a used one.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2012
    With a new car you want good/reliable plus a strong residual.

    Funny thing is, with used cars you want a good/reliable with a bad residual.

    I remember one time the Grand Marquis was the ideal used car in that depreciation was very bad but reliability was actually quite good for a few model years.

    Lemko is probably tearing up right about now. :D
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Right on the nose. I was a Honda guy for years and was always amazed at the residuals though that had nothing to do with buying the. I just liked them.

    I'm thinking a good used car now would be lemko's DTS.

    I never buy new anymore. Leave that initial hit to the guy who does buy it new and then snag it two years old.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I remember one time the Grand Marquis was the ideal used car in that depreciation was very bad but reliability was actually quite good for a few model years.

    They still are a good deal, if you're in the market for that type of car. A few months ago, one of my friends picked up a used 2009 Grand Marquis LS "Ultimate" (which doesn't mean much anymore, as they've been de-contenting these things). I think it had about 51,000 miles on it, and he paid around $13,500 for it.

    Lemko is probably tearing up right about now.

    Last time I talked to Lemko, he was actually hating on his a bit. I think mainly because it's a Ford product and not GM. ;)

    My biggest beef with the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis is that it's very difficult, if not downright impossible, to find one with a sunroof. Did they ever even offer a sunroof on them? I do seem to recall the Marauder could be had with a sunroof, but could be mistaken. I do see them, once in a blue moon, on the Town Car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Since I tend to not buy expensive cars, I'm usually mystified by dealers' asking prices on one or two-year old cars like mine. I usually think, "Why would I buy one or two years old when brand-new is not that much more?" If I bought more expensive cars, with bigger depreciation, I'd probably feel differently. Still, as a bachelor I bought every three years or so and I no longer do that. It used to be that a Chevrolet had the best resale out there compared to initial cost, although I know that is no longer the case.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I think the experience that woke me up to just how inexpensive a used car can be was when I took my Dad car shopping back in September 2003. He ended up buying a used 2003 Regal GS that had about 19,500 miles on it, and a build date of 6/2002. It had been a rental car. It was $10,995, or something like $12,840 out the door, which included an extended warranty he wanted.

    At the time, I'm sure that car MSRP'ed for about $26,000, although I'd imagine that with rebates and stuff it was probably more like $21-22K.

    I remember they also had a 2002 Intrepid, base model similar to the one I had. It had about 40,000 miles on it, and they wanted $8,995. I don't know what it would have stickered for new, but my 2000 had been $20,390, plus $560 freight.

    Even though I liked my Intrepid, I told my Dad the Buick was probably the better deal. One year newer, half the miles, gutsier 3.8 (compared to the 2.7), and a more reliable transmission, for just $2,000 more. Oh, and a better seating position for shorter drivers.

    In those days though, there was a lot of fleet-dumping going on that tended to drive a lot of prices down. So I don't think cars are depreciating quite that badly these days.

    The dealer I bought my Ram from had a few leftover 2012 Chrysler 200's. Even with leather, V-6, and sunroof, they were marked down to around $22,000 I think. While the 200/Avenger platform is outdated and outclassed, it still seemed like a lot of car for the money.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's about $2 grand less than a base Scion iQ. :D
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I've thought about something like a Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, or Town Car myself. But, next time around I want something that's at least a little more fuel efficient than my Park Ave...and I don't think one of those would be it.

    I've thought about a Charger with the V-6, but by the time you put Leather and a sunroof on one, they're not much cheaper than the Hemi.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I think used car prices have been up the past couple of years. That's what I've heard, anyway, and what I've noticed when I look at what my dealer is charging for very late model used cars.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    They ask outrageously high prices used by a year or two for the higher loan risk many who buy used have. A red Cruze caught my eye at the local dealer. I checked it out and for not much more above _asking_ price I could buy a new one. The used probably had lots of discount available however. It had been on the lot several days at the high windshield price. In fact, I think someone within a mile of me bought it.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You're right but new cars sales have been doing good again, so that should mean more trade-ins and lower prices now.

    Famous last words. :)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I think used car prices have been up the past couple of years. That's what I've heard, anyway, and what I've noticed when I look at what my dealer is charging for very late model used cars.

    Yeah, I think "Cash for Clunkers" raised prices to some degree. That, and I guess the fact that new car sales were down for a few years cut restricted the supply of more recent used cars.

    My 2000 Park Ave, at the age of 10 years old and 56,000 miles, was $7500. A local dealer has a 2003 Park Ave, which is now 10 years old, with about 86-87,000 miles on it, equipped about the same (Ultra with sunroof), for $8600.

    So in this comparison, you get a 10 year old car with 30,000 more miles for about $1100 more.

    Of course, who know what it'll actually sell for?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Per NADA, Sandy wiped out 200,000 vehicles. 15,000 new ones, in addition to that.

    So once the dust settles down, there should be strong demand for new cars, and used ones, at least in the Mid Atlantic.

    Let's see which automakers supply the replacements for those.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Flood damaged used cars.

    Coming soon to a car lot near yet.

    And the title will also be washed. :shades:
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Diesel, if they used their platform that underpins the Caprice here and in Austrailia, that may work for global sales. Problem is, how many MB's get sold worldwide and how much of a presence does Caddy have outside of N.A.? THAT, and not the platform may be more of a stumbling block.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Hmmm... I remember when Jags were famous for oil leaks.

    The old joke about the XKE's was when the driver pulled into a service station (back then, gas stations were full service), he would tell the attendant "Check the gas and fill'r up with oil...".
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    For the price of a 3-Series, I could've bought a loaded Mercury Grand Marquis and still have change left over.


    But you would have careened off the road at the first hairpin in the MGM while the 3'er could add speed in the same spot. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Apparently, police departments were never worried about that, with whatever tires and suspension bits were available on the police versions. I also recall reading a contemporary review on the Impala SS of the '90's, where whatever magazine it was said that despite common perception, its slalom numbers were right up there with BMW 5-series. But people believe what they want to believe.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I also recall reading a contemporary review on the Impala SS of the '90's, where whatever magazine it was said that despite common perception, its slalom numbers were right up there with BMW 5-series.

    Strangely enough, I remember even the Buick Roadmaster and Cadillac Fleetwood, after the LT-1 treatment at least, getting high praise for handling. I don't think they were up to Impala SS standards, but supposedly better than the Caprice.

    Which, I find odd, as you'd think the typical Roadmaster or Fleetwood buyer would rather have the floaty, isolated ride?

    Back in late 1999, I test drove a used '94 Caprice with the 4.3 V-8 (and before anyone chimes in, YES, it was the almost-forgotten V-8 used only in 1994-96, and not the 4.3 V-6!), and a '96 Caprice with the 350. I've never driven an Impala SS, but I could definitely tell that 350 Caprice was set up to handle much better than the 4.3 version! I wonder if the Impala SS was set up to handle even better?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited November 2012
    We had a '93 with the 305 and F-41 and it was better than most people would think in that department. The LT-1 equipped later ones had even bigger tires and sway bars I think.

    My wife and I actually discussed buying a new '96 Caprice wagon, as she always wanted a wagon and we knew the RWD ones were going away. We decided it wasn't the smartest thing we could be spending money on then.

    I didn't love the '91-93 instrument panel, but I liked the '94 and later even less, with the digital instrumentation.

    I've always thought I could have enjoyed a '96 LT-1 Caprice in that maroon color with matching red leather interior and the stiffer suspension pieces. A real sleeper I think.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I spotted a 1991-96 Buick Roadmaster wagon on my way home from work yesterday that appeared to be in excellent condition. Maybe I should've followed him and made an offer for it?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited November 2012
    I've always thought I could have enjoyed a '96 LT-1 Caprice in that maroon color with matching red leather interior and the stiffer suspension pieces. A real sleeper I think.

    The '96 I drove was sort of a grayish-green metallic with a gray cloth interior. I remember it had about 36,000 miles on it, and they wanted about $13.8K for it. It was nice, but had a strong cigarette smell in it.

    They wouldn't budge on the price, and just gave me a bad vibe in general. They did give me a call the last weekend of October to say they were ready to deal, but by the time I got back to them it was November 1 or 2, and they basically said "that was then, this is now", so I said screw it, and figured I'd get the thought of another car out of my head. But then, the following weekend, I drove my uncle to the dealer to pick up his '97 Silverado that was having some work done, and that afternoon drove home in a new Intrepid!

    Actually, now that I think about it, I didn't *totally* get the thought of another car out of my mind. I almost forgot, that I had been planning on going to look at a 1995 Riviera that was for sale at another dealer, after taking my uncle to the dealership. But then my uncle said one fateful sentence. "Let's go look at the new cars". :surprise:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Police departments were more worried about ease/cost of repair than handling. The Vic had been around for a zillion years, and parts and bits were plentiful and cheap. Probably still are, frankly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just got the print copy of CR last night and just as I suspected the reliability ratings for these two are similar, in fact they're right next to each other in the rankings.

    Avalanche barely eeked out the advantage and since they've always loved it there's no surprise it's their top pickup.

    FWIW in the subjective scores it crushed any import brand truck by more than 10 points (out of 100).
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Which, I find odd, as you'd think the typical Roadmaster or Fleetwood buyer would rather have the floaty, isolated ride?

    My grandpa had a '92 Roadmaster at the same time as my dad had a '92 CrownVic. The CrownVic felt like a sports sedan in comparison as the the RM was far softer. Maybe they changed them some later on, but I never particularly liked driving the RM. The steering was far to light and numb, the brakes were mushy, the suspension did all it could to discourage any type of fun. Plus the TBI 350 was a truck engine. It wasn't nearly as smooth as Ford's 4.6 at the time and with super tall gearing it was sluggish, particularly over 30 mph, it hated to rev. Granted in routine driving it had plenty of torque. I'm sure the LT1 would have completely transformed the car in terms of powertrain performance.

    In the late '90's when I was active in SCCA Solo II autocross we had a member that was a police officer. He'd occasionally run his late '90's Caprice patrol car (with department permission). It was hilarious, like watching a beached whale flopping around. Nothing but squealing tires, lots of noise, lean, and dive and always the slowest times of the day. Tight handling they simply didn't have. Now that's not to say they didn't handle well enough for pursuit duty.

    BTW, I found an article comparing the top HP domestic vehicles from the mt 90's on MT. The Impala SS performance numbers weren't much different than the Cadillac Deville Northstar. The slalom speed was better, but no where near the muscle cars (Mustang, Camaro, T/A).
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    American companies DO know how to build good trucks. That's probably why they pushed SUVs so hard.

    Frankly, even if we got rid of the Chicken Tax the domestics would top the imports.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I believe the pickup truck is a uniquely American innovation that's been around since farmers began adding cargo boxes to the backs of their Model Ts.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Police departments were more worried about ease/cost of repair than handling. The Vic had been around for a zillion years, and parts and bits were plentiful and cheap. Probably still are, frankly.

    Ironically, once upon a time the Crown Vic was often considered to be least desireable of the full-sized police cars. From 1979-81 the car of choice was usually Mopar...the '79 Newport, '79-81 St. Regis, and '80-81 Gran Fury. With the 360 V-8 they were pretty fast...in fact, it wouldn't be until 1989 that the Caprice, with a fuel-injected 350, 4-speed automatic, and 3.42:1 axle would finally outrun a 1979 Mopar, with just a 360-4bbl, 3-speed automatic, and 2.94:1 axle. And even then, the differences were miniscule.

    However, the '79-81 Mopars were not popular with the general public and sold poorly, so after they were canceled, the '82 M-body Gran Fury/Diplomat took over for police duty. While smaller than an Impala or Crown Vic, it was still rugged and considered big enough. As time went by though, it simply fell behind the times.

    The Crown Vic really wasn't much of a police car until the 1992 version, with the 4.6. And even then, the car of choice was by far the Caprice. When the Caprice went away after 1996, many police departments actually bought refurbished, used Caprices before they'd buy a new Crown Vic!

    The Crown Vic ultimately won out, but mainly by default, as GM and Chrysler pretty much left the police car market. They did return, in a degree, with the Impala, Intrepid, and now the Charger. I dunno how the current 3.6 Impala rates, but the last police car test I saw showed the 3.9 Impala, 3.5 Charger, and 4.6 Crown Vic fairly evenly matched. The Hemi Charger, naturally, blew them all away.

    However, the Crown Vic is still fast enough, and as they say, you can't outrun the radio! And, as you mention, the Crown Vic is pretty cheap to fix. Also relatively simple and durable, and can take more of a beating than an Impala or Charger.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    if they used their platform that underpins the Caprice here and in Austrailia, that may work for global sales.

    I seriously doubt the Zeta platform would be good enough to compete with an S-Class type vehicle. It would have to be a ground up specifically designed platform if Cadillac truly wanted to build a car at that level. I don't think a 6+ year old platform that was designed for a much lower price point is how you succeed at building a flagship Cadillac, but OTOH, at GM, that's probably exactly how they'd do it and then scratch their heads two years later when it's cancelled.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    merican companies DO know how to build good trucks.

    I've driven a buddies '08 Tundra crewcab limited many times. It's got plenty of room, a powertrain to die for, and seems well built. But I don't particularly like how it drives. The ride can't compete with the domestics and the interior is ugly (IMO). I wouldn't doubt the Tundra is more reliable overall, but you can't beat the domestics with all of the variations they offer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tundra's interior is very plasticky. I don't know if it's the colors or textures they chose, but it leaves me cold.

    They sell for more money, too. Toyota may keep it that way just so that they don't have to go head to head with the Big 3 pickups.

    Avalanche and Ram (Ram Box, coil springs) have been the innovators in that segment. Kind of fun to see where they go from here. It's a shame the Avalanche is discontinued, hopefully once the next gen Suburban is out they'll design a new one.

    Or let's see the new S10 sold here (doubtful).
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    The Caprice was definitely not svelte, but I think the Roadmaster just really looked bloated. The Fleetwood looked like a Cadillac--throwback styling cues which I liked, for the most part.

    We've discussed this before, but one of the car magazines (probably C&D) had a pic of a '96 Roadmaster LT1 with a lady in a gray old lady's wig behind the wheel, leaving a huge cloud of smoke coming off the rear wheels on the strip. Funny visual.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    but I think the Roadmaster just really looked bloated.

    I agree, I never cared for the looks, but for some strange reason I kind of like the Roadmaster wagon.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    The Roadmaster wagon had that 'Vista Cruiser' type roof, which was pretty cool.

    Remember that Olds didn't make a sedan like a Caprice but made a wagon? Can't recall when I last saw one, or when they were discontinued (I'm thinking before '96, but not sure).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    "Or let's see the new S10 sold here (doubtful). "

    What new S10? GM replaced the S10 with the Nissan Colorado. I mean Chevy Colorado.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Nissan Colorado

    Huh? There's not a Nissan thing about the Colorado. I don't like it, but there is nothing Nissan about it at all.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    edited November 2012
    Here's a 1994 Olds along the era your're talking about. I can't find any pictures of the wagon version.

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    That's just a Caprice with the Olds grille insert and hood ornament. The wagon was called the "Custom Cruiser", but in the U.S. anyway, there wasn't any sedan version from Olds.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    S10 is alive and well in Brazil:

    http://www.chevrolet.com.br/veiculos/todos-os-modelos.html

    That's what they call the new compact pickup, anyway.

    Since the Colorado never did well, they should bring back the S10 name as well.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I think I read somewhere that the new truck to be sold here will still be called 'Colorado'. I do think it ties in nicely with 'Silverado', although I never liked the looks of the truck.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited November 2012
    I think 1993 was the last year for the Custom Cruiser. I used to see one in a pretty shade of light metallic blue on a fairly regular basis at work, but that was awhile back now.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited November 2012
    I remember that article: "Holy Stewed Prunes! The Geritol Set Gets Some Real Firepower!" Hey, remember the "Little Old Lady From Pasadena!"
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited November 2012
    Should've left the wood paneling off the Roadmaster wagon and called it the SportWagon! Make mine Arctic White over Teal Blue Mist!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I think he's confused the Suzuki Equator which is the Nissan Frontier underneath.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Meh, never liked the Colorado name, plus that was sort of a joint venture with Isuzu.

    I say go back to S10. The name carries more value IMHO.

    Ever watch Trucks! ? They had a project car, S10K, where they stuffed a small block V8 in one. Once that was done they keep building it up, too.

    I liked the truck at the end of phase I, for $10 grand they had a V8 truck finished.
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