Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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IMO, GM having the oldest pickups of the D3 has to be hurting margins. They're advertising up to $9k in rebates around here on Silverados. The F150 is selling more units with less discounts.
Plus it seems Ford has done a better job reducing production to product demand.
In contrast, mine came out to about $18.5K (plus freight, tax, etc, OTD price was $20,751), but that was with the Hemi/6-speed, power windows/locks, cruise, Siruis radio, remote entry with 3 fobs (I bargained for the third), sliding rear window (bargained for that too), carpeting, floor mats, a trailer hitch, Suregrip (or whatever they call it these days), upgraded wheels/tires, spray in bedliner, and probably one or two things I'm missing.
So it makes me wonder...is Chrysler really hurting so bad that they're willing to sell something like that at a big loss? Or could the stripper Silverado I found for an internet price of $18K really be had for a lot less?
I did try pricing a Silverado 1500 work truck on Edmunds, with the 5.3 and other upgrades to make it more comparable, and came out with a TMV of $23,069, which includes freight and a $3,000 rebate. Freight is $995 for it as well as my truck, so adding the freight back onto my price would bring it up to about $19,500. So there's still about a $3500 difference there.
But yet stock wise F is up 22% vis a vis GM is up 20%. I would expect more from F with 53% higher margins.
Volts or EVs? I wonder if they included the upcoming Caddy in that projection.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20121129/OEM/121129874#ixzz2DdAOVWCv
All the CR haters please disregard completely. :P
Sales have been building, they're close to 3k/month just in the USA. Add a Caddy version and they could potentially see 5k or so.
I wouldn't buy one, but it's a fairly nice-looking car I think and it's clobbering the Nissan Leaf, which I believe is polar opposite of conventional wisdom on this board earlier (ahem).
Where are all the Internet shills who bashed the Leaf and all electric cars?
That's right, the agenda has changed, electric cars are OK now... :sick:
So a survey from a pool of subscribers that supposedly hate the Volt rated it number one?
Must have been sample size error;)
Chrysler has recent upped the rebates on Rams too. I do like the current Ram a lot. I think I'll wait until so I can try the Hemi with an 8 speed and see what the FE looks like.
At this point, I'm considering an F150 crewcab lariat with an ecoboost or 5.0 vs a crewcab Ram with hemi and Laramie or sport. But OTOH, I'm not quite ready to give up a 3row full size SUV so I might consider a used Suburban or Expedition EL.
V6 GM pickups did not do well, but they are older designs competing with newer V6s from the competition, so no surprise. Nissan fared poorly, with the Armada and Versa, plus the Leaf.
Corvette also did really well.
Suzuki and Mitsubishi also had low scoring models. Suzuki is gone and I've been predicting Mitsu is next in line.
It took them until 1986 to start their recovery. They had over 15 years where they simply sucked and were mis-managed into the ground, while the imports ate them for lunch. And it took them until 1990 when they finally became the sales leader again in large engine motorcycles.
You know, to me, it sounds a hell of a lot like GM. Just move everything twenty years forward (1989-2006) and it's like history repeating itself. And GM finally started building great cars around 2010 - about the same four years it took Harley to get up and running again after some new management and designs were added.
That's all true, but there were other significant factors as well.
The 1947 Hollister "invasion" was the distorted "news event" that put a negative light on bikers for decades, and gave rise to the biker bad-boy movies of the 50's-70's. No one recalls ever hearing of a bunch of Cadillac drivers invading a town and turning it into a drunken orgy.
In the 60's, Harley was also the first vehicle manufacturer to get hit with cheap Japanese bike imports, which was one of the main reasons AMF came into play. Before and during AMF's ownership, quality declined as cost-cutting ruled the day. AMF had no idea how to run a motorcycle manufacturing company.
On the other hand, GM held Cadillac 100% of the time post WWII, and they had quite a bit of experience in car making. Also, when Japanese imports finally hit the car scene, luxury level cars such as Cadillac were the last to be targeted.
Whereas HD got hit by a Tsunami in the middle of the night, Cadillac had years to see it coming.
In the 1980's, HD ownership changed and was managed by a group that fully understood the domestic motorcycle market, and the market psyche as well. That background and knowledge allowed HD to do great things.
IMO, that's the main difference today between HD and Cadillac.
I think the CTS has done a pretty good job of giving Cadillac an improved image (domestically), and it looks certain that the ATS will be able to build upon that even more.
The big 800lb gorilla in the room for all GM products is the labor-related cost figure that has yet to be fully addressed.
As George Will recently opined in his column, GM is a health provider that manufactures cars to generate revenue.
http://www.jdpower.com/content/press-release/ItN986X/2012-u-s-sales-satisfaction- -index-ssi-study.htm
Seems like dealers are doing a good job overall.
Yeah, as much as I love those old 70's beasts, that conversion just doesn't work. The problem is that it looks like they tried to get by on the cheap, using the side windows from a B-body wagon. The wagons has a more upright C-pillar than the sedans, and the doors of the wagons were flat across the top, rather than tapering downward towards the back, so they blended in better.
To really work right, that Caddy would have needed custom body work at the back to truly fit the shape of the car, rather than just trying to take a 4-door C-body and force-fitting a B-body wagon rear. Or, if they were going to use the B-body wagon like they did, they should have done some custom work on the rear doors, to make it all flow better.
It also looks like they made the taillights on that Caddy wagon more vertical than they would be on the sedan/coupe, and that makes it seem more awkward to me.
Yes I would!
I've yet to see a full size wagon with a usable 3rd row seat. No way would I want to sit facing backwards and getting into the 3rd row is a major PITA for anyone over 12. Plus a rear facing back seat can't be very safe.
I use the 3rd row in the Expedition often. Drove my daughter + 6 other 14 year old girls home last night from after school activities.
Now I do like midsize wagons, but if you need a usable 3rd row a minivan or full-size SUV (for those who need to tow something heavy) is far better IMO than a traditional fullsize wagon.
Sorry to say but those were not good memories. The suspension floated like crazy, you'd get car sick in the rear facing 3rd row, and for some reason the transmission had trouble finding 1st gear. It would delay, delay, then SLAM in to first.
I went to college without a car rather than keeping that. Seriously. Walked and biked and took the bus until I got my motorcycle.
I think the experience was so bad that I block it from memory. The CTS wagon certainly helps.
Perhaps the GM stock price is already depressed due to low expectations?
No, that was the Volt projection for 2012, made in 2011.
I think most of us admire the tech in the Volt. What is a poor business decision at $40K could be an oustanding vehicle at $20K. Their challenge is to sell it at a low enough price to have it make sense to consumers, while still being able to make money on it. That I'm not so sure they can do, but I'm sure they are trying.
Your comment is just like my comment - we like it but we wouldn't buy it at that price point. If it were a lot cheaper it would be a runaway success.
The Leaf is a lot cheaper but doesn't have the practicality of the gas engine, so the Volt is clearly better in the functionality department -- but at the higher price.
+1
I like clamshells, but this is disjointed -
This on the other hand is pimpy enough to work:
Caddy wasn't alone in odd aftermarket conversions:
Smart EV is only a 2 seater but they priced that far more aggressively at $25k. The conventional car is $12,490, same price as a Spark.
Incentives will bring that one down to $14.5-17.5k or so. That's the same price as the conventional gas model. That's more like it.
GM can't charge $20 grand more for the EV. That's a head scratcher.
No, but for years Caddy (and to a smaller degree, Lincoln) had the image of being driven by mobsters, gansters and pimps. Even "gangstas", thanks to the Escalade. That wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the brand.
WTF did you do to deserve THAT???? LOL.
Has the headache subsided yet?
Each time fuel prices trend upward, they seem to peak at just about the same time the newest, latest and greatest wave of unconventional-powered vehicles hit the market.
Regarding the Volt (and its spawned models that are coming), my personal feeling is that we shouldn't bark too,loudly about governmental support and subsidization of the Volt... At least, for some period of time.
Even though we seem to continuously "discover" new oil fields, it is, in the end, a finite resource. But, the way it's trending, however, I'm beginning to suspect carbon emissions will ultimately have the final say on the pricing of combustible petroleum products we use to make our cars go. The cost of locating, collecting, refining and delivering petro-products may sooner, rather than later, take a back-seat to the costs of dealing with emissions from burning those products.
From a practical standpoint, vehicles like the Volt are a real alternative in that area. That's why I'm cutting the Volt some slack in the short-term.
As in everything, it must become economically viable to succeed, and the clock is ticking. I just don't know how long the allotted time period is...
WTF did you do to deserve THAT???? LOL.
Has the headache subsided yet?
ROTLMAO!!!! No kidding! A Smart Car was sounding good at the time;) Seems my daughter thinks I'm the late bus.
LOL!
Regards,
OW
Depending on where you live though, your Volt may be plugged into a utility that uses oil/natural gas to generate the juice. In lots of ways though, it's nice to concentrate the emissions in discrete "industrial" spots and try to use best practices to minimize them. Unless you live downwind or your faucet tap lights up when you stick a match to it.
A friend gave me an electric shovel and it's easier moving snow around with the lightweight hand shovel than plugging it in. But I did notice an 18" full-on snowblower on the market that's all electric. Sure don't miss my gas mower.
I think it would be good for GM to port a Volt over to Cadillac.
Here in coastal CA your statement doesn't even register in my comprehension. I suspect for Gary as well.
Does GM make snowblowers? Perhaps they should.
Of course, decades back it was either Bonnie and Clyde or John Dillinger I believe who gave a ringing endorsement of the Ford V8, and it was great PR back then for the brand.
Great Rolling Stones song!
Somewhere out there is a plow attachment for your Silverado 3500 that likely blows the stuff as well as pushes it around. (Found one)
Mammoth Mountain
Of course, you're correct.
Still, cars like the Volt aren't directly tied to electricity generated by fossil fuels.
Solar can do it, and as we get more proficient at making solar panels more efficient, the promise of cleaner energy increases. Wind is another possibility. And, in many cases, the cars can be relegated to being charged on "off-peak" hours. This is the strategy that Germany as accepted in a big way.
If nothing else, it gives us options that continuing to use internal combustion engines simply can't provide. I'm certainly no "greenie", but I do see the possibilities that the Volt , at least in theory, can provide.