Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

GM News, New Models and Market Share

1567568570572573631

Comments

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    There are a lot of potential issues on electrics, but I wouldn't write GM off. The company can do some amazing stuff when it puts it's mind and effort into it. Heck, some are saying that Ford is pulling ahead of Toyota and the rest of the Asians on hybrids lately. As for electrics, resolve hot and cold weather battery issues and add some range - that will potentially up volume in urban areas allowing costs to come down. With the often rapid advances in electronics, I learned long ago to never say "never"! Put me in the column of rooting for GM to turn around. UAW or not, I'd like to see a strong Detroit again. It's good for competition and good for America.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Terrible, Rolls/Volvo hybrid. Makes the Caddy look elegant and chic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just looked it up - the Smart EV has a 16.5kw battery.

    Still, you wouldn't think 3.5kw would cost an extra $10 grand. At the $600/kw rate that justifies a premium of $2,100.

    Seems like the Smart bombed badly, and they are rebooting with probably what the ForTwo should have been in the first place, a quirky little EV. Wonder if they'll be sold at a loss?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My off-grid friends down near Taos really should trade in their Subaru and Echo for a Volt

    Problem is they could get a 35mpg Impreza and a Prius C (both) for the price of a new Volt.

    If they're off the grid do they even pay $7500 in taxes to qualify for the rebate?

    Or just get a Cruze Eco or a used TDI and convert it to burn recycled fry oil, then the exhaust will smell like french fries. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    some are saying that Ford is pulling ahead of Toyota and the rest of the Asians on hybrids lately

    I've been following the C Max closely, at a short-lister for my next car, and the real world numbers have been disappointing. EPA is 5 better but the it loses to the Prius V in the real world, and it's smaller to boot.

    Funny thing is Hyundai is the one in hot water. Maybe Ford will get some heat soon as well? They're not even close to the claimed 47mpg.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2012
    A Volt could help their marketing believe it or not (they sell to the adventure tourism crowd), but they can always use the "drive them forever" green card like I do. :)

    And maybe a Volt could be tinkered with and run their house if the panels got blown off their moorings.

    I think you're right about Ford too; it's gotta be bad if even my wife notices the complaints about the C-Max mpg.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    PS to add details:

    Elantra EPA combined of 32 yet owners on the EPA site report 28.9 average, on fuelly it's 29.9, 30.1, and 30.5 by year.

    C Max is rated 47mpg and they average 40.5. Fuelly has it even worse, just 38.5mpg.

    Hyundai off by 9.7% at most, Ford off by 13.8% at least.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    a Volt could be tinkered with and run their house

    I've always thought the GM hybrid pickups could be set up this way. Seriously, as a real generator.

    Imagine marketing that right now to any of the states affected by Sandy. Ford, Dodge, or GM? I bet GM would pick up (pardon the pun) 5% more share.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Seems like they reveal one little bit at a time:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/29/c7-corvettes-second-video-teases-digital-gaug- es/

    These were pioneered on the Lexus LF-A, now the Vette is getting them.

    Pretty sweet looking.

    Hopefully they do a really cool Super Bowl commercial. The timing is perfect.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We were just talking about this car, then I saw this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igC6u-opjrE&feature=player_embedded#!

    And Mercedes-Benz Cars Advanced Design Studios actually collaborated on that. :D
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The car is almost as bad as the guy's shirt.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    C Max is rated 47mpg and they average 40.5. Fuelly has it even worse, just 38.5mpg...Hyundai off by 9.7% at most, Ford off by 13.8% at least.

    There's a difference - Hyundai fudged their numbers and were caught. AFAIK, Ford hasn't been accused of or had fraud proven.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford should be investigated as well.

    I'd be MIFFED if I was told I'd get 47mpg then only got 38.5mpg.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Eh, throw Chrysler on there as well...my new Ram is rated at 14 city and I've only been averaging 13.5 in mostly-local driving! :P

    Seriously though, if I bought something expecting to get 47 mpg and it was only getting 38.5 mpg, I'd be pretty miffed!

    The CMax just came out, right? Maybe the colder weather has been hurting its estimates so far, and they'll hopefully even out as time progresses and we get a few warm months worth of data thrown into the mix?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited November 2012
    Ford should be investigated as well. I'd be MIFFED if I was told I'd get 47mpg then only got 38.5mpg.

    Oh I have no issue with that but the C-Max has been out for about a month. The public has to give it some time to get a real cross section. Further, nobody is being told they'll get 47 mpg. They are told that the EPA test showed 47 mpg and it is for comparison only. AFAIK, it's not a promise!! :)

    Unfortunately, the internet has made it too easy to complain about things and we're all too quick to point fingers and make accusations.

    As andre notes, it's getting colder as well and mileage will drop off. Heck, I've seen my Explorer go from high 18's in city driving to low 17's in the past week with the drop in temps.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah but that's 4%! ;)

    Sure do hope the numbers improve...

    I like those, just-right sized, zippy, cute for what it is.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Reminds me of a Victoria Secret fashion show, where the models wear wings as they parade around on the runway...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They could drive that and then hop out of the car at the end of the runway. It's an EV so it wouldn't even pollute the fashion show. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/30/senate-calling-for-answers-from-hyundai-and-k- ia-over-mpg-debacle/

    That's funny, his name is Rockefeller and they're whining about a couple of mpg.

    Gotta wonder if he'll treat Ford the same way.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited November 2012
    I believe it was on this board where comparisons were made about the Malibu sizing down to approaching the Cruze in interior room and to make room for the new Impala. Just looking on eBay at earlier Chevs for sale and I was reminded how incredibly close in dimensions that '70's Nova coupes and Chevelle coupes were. Nova was on a 111 inch wheelbase; Chevelle coupes, 112. Nova rear seat legroom was 33.4 compared to 32.9 in the Chevelle...actually larger ('73 models). Nova trunk room was down about half a cubic foot from Chevelle's. And Novas cost a good bit less. I always thought a Nova seemed/felt like a big, small car and a Chevelle (at least '73 and later) felt like a smaller big car, though--no doubt due to coil springs all around and a perimeter frame on the Chevelle.

    Also, when downsizing started, a '77 Caprice was on the same wheelbase as a Chevelle sedan but was shorter and lighter. In '78, the Malibu was shorter and lighter than the Nova.

    And my '11 Malibu was on a longer wheelbase (by about 1 1/2 inches I believe) than the same year Impala.

    So it's all nothing new.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    So you're saying it's an ongoing corporate culture problem rather than a recent problem?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Exactly. GM is far behind the competition. Sound redundant? Necessary to keep reminding GM that it's underpinning culture is still broken.

    Here is another reminder why the designs are behind the times:

    You may already know about General Motors’s effort to bring 90 percent of its IT efforts in-house over the next several years will result in the hiring of thousands of new employees around the world. But the endeavor is not about saving GM money ; according to GM Chief Information Officer Randy Mott; instead, GM is focused on improving its ability to design software and data systems used to make vehicles.

    Garbage in = Garbage Out! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    GM needs some hits in its bread-and butter Chevy brand, which accounts for about 75% of its vehicle sales in the U.S. Years ago, GM could credibly tout Chevrolet as American as baseball and apple pie. But a string of poor quality cars and its government-backed bankruptcy have left GM with a tarnished image, and it is paying a price. Through the end of the third-quarter, GM’s market share stood at 17.6%, compared with 19.7% in the same period of 2011.

    What happened to Baseball and Apple Pie cars?

    The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration issues a report each year that details the cars that are made in America. The report looks at where the parts, the transmission and the engine come from.

    According to the latest report, the most "American car" is the Toyota Avalon, which is built in Georgetown, Kentucky. Eighty-five percent of that car's parts are sourced from the U.S and Canada — a higher percentage than for any car made by a U.S.-based manufacturer. Honda just celebrated its 30th anniversary in the U.S.


    Welcome to the New Standard of the World which GM, Ford and C created. Love it or Leave it!

    Regards,
    OW
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Didn't Sprint just announce a new in-car infotainment system for sale? Maybe GM should drop CUE and contract with them. Or, frankly, Apple or Google.

    In fairness, pretty much all of them should be doing so, or just giving us docks for our iPhones and Androids. :shades:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Ahh, but remember, Chevrolet runs deep like an exciting heartbeat rock that you can see the USA's apple pie and baseball in.

    And like most of Chevrolet's marketing, it completely avoids talking about the actual cars. When your main talking point is the country your home office is located in, you have problems. But hey, obviously GM management must know better than me, it's not like their business practices drove them to bankruptcy or anything, right?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Just an observation: I noticed hotrodders began using 1978-83 Malibus when the supply of Novas to use as a base for hot rods started running low.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited December 2012
    Come on dieselone, it's folks like circlew who knocked the Volt right out of the box--like the Camaro, BTW--and are deafening in their silence when good things are said about it.

    I do think, however, there is some psychology involved. It's the car that no doubt had the most negatives publicly said about it....owners probably do feel compelled to thumb their noses at all that. I do think there's a certain mentality in common to owners of the Volt...better-off, high self-esteem about being 'green', etc.

    Looks nice, I hear it's remarkably quiet...but I won't spend that money on a car although I could afford to (at least before my kid started college this year).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited December 2012
    According to the latest report, the most "American car" is the Toyota Avalon, which is built in Georgetown, Kentucky

    This is good news, of course...their most-expensive nameplate takes that title. Of course, they came here with none of the baggage the Big Three have/had.

    I am convinced that the major decisions are still made in Japan, and that the culture of the company is largely Japanese (Samurai swords given to dealers by Japanese management, etc.). Still, of course, IMHO this greatly beats the old Toyotas that sold in large numbers here that were zero percent American.

    Honestly, I wouldn't spend that money for a car that looks like that. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Come on dieselone, it's folks like circlew who knocked the Volt right out of the box--like the Camaro, BTW--and are deafening in their silence when good things are said about it.

    I don't think anyone was directly knocking the volt in terms of design or capability (though I will say efficiency isn't very impressive once the battery is depleted). It's always been the money aspect. Personally, I'm mixed on the Volt. To me the looks are so-so and only having seating for 4 is an issue. Bottom line, at this point gas prices still aren't high enough for me to justify the cost. The Volt is an impressive piece of engineering, no question.

    BTW, I was thumbing threw the current R&T or C&D (can't remember which), on their 10 best list, the Boss 302 was picked over the Camaro ZL1;) No GM cars were on the list, though Ford had 2, the Focus and Mustang;)

    As usual though, Ford can't "Escape" their Detroit roots. Another serious recall for the Fusion and Escape. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Funny, the Avalon was about the only Toyota-branded car I would've considered - that is until they gave it that ugly makeover this year! Vomitrocious!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Lemko, I think the 'old' Avalon was the best-looking Asian make available here...because it didn't look 'Asian'!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Shh...you're just being biased and hating Asian cars (or something like that)! ;)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Maybe GM should drop CUE and contract with them. Or, frankly, Apple or Google.

    Just don't do like Ford and use Microsoft!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    From the early reports I've read so far, CUE isn't much or any better than My Ford Touch.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Ahh, but remember, Chevrolet runs deep like an exciting heartbeat rock that you can see the USA's apple pie and baseball in.

    Their marketing is horrible. Perhaps if they had an image they were actually striving for, they might get there.

    With baseball and apple pie it seems that their advertising was just appealing to the patriotism of citizens to "not buy those non-US cars". But of course we know that the most US-sourced cars don't come from Chevy these days.

    And now this "Chevy runs deep" silliness. What does THAT mean? Does it mean that the car is low to the ground? That the running engine is deep in the engine compartment? That the spirit of Chevy is (haha) supposed to be deep in my soul?

    Even other mass marketers like Toyota and Honda have images that relate to the vehicles. Chevy should come up with a plan to *stand for something* related to their actual vehicles - something that actually is positive. And then make their vehicles match THAT.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    > other mass marketers like Toyota and Honda have images that relate to the vehicles.

    You mean like "Wield Precision"?

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Honestly, you can call me a Luddite because I don't really see the advantage to all of this touch screen stuff. Give me back my knobs and buttons - Please!

    PS - wait a few years until people start experiencing the durability and related repair bills for touch screen. Nothing wrong with a cheap and reliable rheostat instead.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited December 2012
    Seeing that only 20K have been sold in the U.S. and Canada, it's not like it's a screaming success. When the price drops without the subsidy, then it will sell more mainstream. GM still doesn't lead, even on Green Street! :)

    Volt Sales YTD = 19,309
    Prius Sales YTD =200,114

    The Camaro? Did you forget the horrible launch details? It's people like you that hide those details under the carpet. You work for Chevy, right? :lemon:

    Regards,
    OW
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    More like "Built Ford Tough." or "Have you driven a Ford lately?" or "Zoom Zoom" or "Das Auto" or even Caddy's "ATS vs. the World" campaign, which proves GM actually DOES know how to do a marketing campaign about the CAR. Not sure if that makes the whole Chevy thing better or worse. Is it only the Chevy division that doesn't know how to market cars? Or is it perhaps that Chevy knows they can't market the cars themselves because they don't measure up?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    No, he meant "Like A Rock!"

    image

    Chevy = :lemon:
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    One really good commercial I saw the other day had a Toyota pickup pulling one of the Space Shuttles to its final destination hangar.

    Had the "patriotic" appeal to it, along with demonstrating the trucks power and utility...
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    One really good commercial I saw the other day had a Toyota pickup pulling one of the Space Shuttles to its final destination hangar.

    Had the "patriotic" appeal to it, along with demonstrating the trucks power and utility...


    Yeah, if only some other company had managed to successfully lobby for that job....
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Why Caddy follows. Watch.

    3'er vs. ATS

    Nice first try! People like UL won't notice but driving enthusiasts will choose the best. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Goes to show you how important a transmission is. And that's tricky, because even barring the manual/auto debate, a driver is looking for a sporty sort of transmission that gives them control and is slick to use, and an appliance shopper is simply looking for a transmission that is smooth and stays out of the way. And generally someone looking for one won't be happy with the other.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I'm willing to bet the A/T version would prove more worthy. Either way, GM is finally getting it and the upcoming Buick GN/GNX on the same platform as the ATS has my attention as well. Ditto the Chevy SS.

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Talk about avoiding relevant facts...you are the 'Standard of the World' for that!

    You predicted the Camaro as a whopping failure at launch time.

    Guess what? For years it outsold the Mustang, even with one less bodystyle and without the refresh the Mustang had. Just last month the Mustang eked out a small sales improvement on the Camaro. "Aha! I was right"!!

    Sheesh.

    I believe you also predicted the Leaf would outsell the Volt.

    You could get a job at a polling company!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited December 2012
    I can guarantee, though, that the ATS will cost a lot less in upkeep. It's already about $70 cheaper to lease one as well, and you can actually contemplate buying it at the end of the lease while you're stuck with leasing another BMW.

    In terms of raw performance, the BMW has a small edge. But it's also a lot harsher riding and you have to flog the poor things to death to get a measurable difference between the two vehicles.

    I every-day driving, it's too close to call.
    Except for the better warranty, lower cost to maintain, (not to mention it works fine without premium gas), and much better reliability.

    It seems like a clear win for the ATS after you leave the test track and actually own one.

    EDIT: Of course GM manuals suck. GM makes among the best automatics in the world, though. The engine is also designed with the automatic's gearing in mind.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    There is no prediction about it. The Camaro was a whopping failure at launch. Tell you what: You define what a successful auto launch is and let me know if the Camaro passes. :lemon:

    Guess what? The Mustang out sold the Camaro historically because GM stopped making them. Ford did not. Which company sold more? As an auditor you should be able to verify that.

    I believe I did not predict the Leaf would outsell the Volt.

    You should get a job as a GM lawyer! You would ALWAYS be right! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited December 2012
    Can you admit that the Camaro has been a success, and that it didn't have rebates on the ZL-1 at introduction time?

    Incidentally, I thumbed through the Dec. 'Popular Mechanics', and they gave the ZL-1 the "2013 Automobiles of Excellence" award for performance cars.

    I don't even like the Camaro, but I'm able to admit that the current generation has been a sales success from the get-go.

    I'm reminded of Fonzie on Happy Days, when friends were trying to get him to say he was wrong.

    "I was w...I was wr.....I was w.....I was wr....."

    By spending about two minutes, I was able to find this post of yours back when:

    Well, so much for the Volt making a precedent...............



    May the Best Car Win.

    Regards,
    OW

    The post included a link that's only a little red 'x' for me now.

    Not much of a case for your having said something like 'hey, maybe the Volt is a decent little car', or something of that nature.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Sign In or Register to comment.