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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Why? That's what the Traverse is for. Cannibalizing itself is one of the things that got GM into its current predicament.

    Because the Traverse / Enclave are huge vehicles. Big as Yukons. I would like something smaller but need the capability of 4 kids in the back for carpooling to schools/events. The current Captiva does have 3 rows available.

    The Equinox is a smaller, midsize segment CUV. Do you think the Enclave is competing with the CR-v/Rav4? I sure was not worried about cannibalizing, just looking for what I need.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=129330

    A secret photo of the 2010 Chevrolet Equinox has just emerged from within from GM, showing the face of the new, five-passenger crossover utility vehicle expected to come to market late in 2009 as a competitor for the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4.

    The 2010 Chevrolet Equinox is based on the mid-size sedan architecture that underlies such cars as the Chevrolet Malibu and Saturn Aura. The mechanical package will be shared with the 2010 Cadillac SRX and 2010 Saab 9-4X.


    Not quite true. The SRX will use a very modified and upgraded version of the Theta II platform.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The Vectra is sold here as the Saturn Aura. The old Malibu was also based on the same architecture as the Vectra, as is the current one.

    Is there another vehicle sold in the US similar to the Zafira? Compact 7 passenger minivan. Would like to see the volume. A good vehicle but here in the US it seems like a CUV type vehicle is more sellable.

    Its a different market here in the US than Mexico. Mini vehicles like the Corsa have not sold well. When gas went up to $4 the subcompacts started to sell but now that gas is down to $1.50 even the compacts have plummeted. Now the Mini is selling well but I believe it is selling more on it's cute factor than anything.

    But when gas goes back up to $4 in a few years mini cars may sell a bit more but I believe most US people like a larger vehicle. But I did read that GM will be selling the sub compact Beat here in the US. Hopefully it will be here in time for the $4 gas and not before.

    Another good reason is that GM does not make a lot of, if any, money an vehicles as small as the sub compacts. Perhaps that will change by March.
  • jamcjamc Member Posts: 11
    Yes I know, but we got the turbo vectra in 2 years ago, and the Astra turbo in the same time and maybe we might even get the insignia sooner the you guys will get it, if you get it, we also have the euro Focus, but thats an other story. And personally I have always liked american cars. I always see them in better shape than the japanese cars over the years, they don't seem to stay intact with our terrible roads And the best selling car here is called Tsuru, also know as 93-96 model Sentra. We and gms bets selling car is called the "Chevy C2" Its a good car, but not american taste. There is a 3 door hatch, 4 door hatch and a 4 door sedan. Its reliable, but no safety options. But its priced arroun 5500 grand. And you get around 40 MPG in HW and around 32 city.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "It is true that, due to our current liquidity situation among other things, we have temporarily suspended some construction activities at the new engine plant in Flint," he said. "This has no impact on our production timing for the Volt or the Chevy Cruze. Moreover, our global manufacturing process is flexible enough to construct this plant within a year, and the planning activities that require less cash up front are continuing in Flint."

    Addressing Skeptics, GM Says Volt "Remains on Schedule" (Inside Line)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I mentioned earlier that now that Saturn is gone the Insignia will need to find a new home here in the US. To me it would make a great G6 with AWD. With the Solstice and G8, Pontiac would have plenty of great product to meet the Pontiac sporty performance market they keep missing trying to keep a full stable. It would be nice to round it out with a economy/sport compact. Any suggestions for that? I guess the Vibe cold continue there but it would be nice if it was something a bit more performance oriented pocket rocket.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yes. Lancer Evolution is a great icon. A BETTER candidate could compete made by GM or F if they really had the desire.

    Simple.

    Regards,
    OW
  • jamcjamc Member Posts: 11
    Have you ever checked any gm web page from Mexico. GM in Mexico is kind of funny. The vectra is sold next to the Malibu. They are both chevrolets. Pontiac gets the Spark. No G8 here. The auto columnist are weird to. They called the Optra underpowered with 127 hp,while calling the Jetta a great car with great power and all that stuff. The Jetta was rated at 114hp here.Kinda funny. GM in here has been the sales leader 12 years in a row. Of course our market is about 1.2 million per year.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Its been awhile since I went to a Mexican website. But I have been at the Ramos Arispe plant.

    How do they differentiate the Vectra/Malibu? I went to the site but my spanish is very poor. I could look it up but what are the sales volumes of each?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I thought the Lancer was more mid sized? Volume stinks though. Only about 30,000 total Lancers annually. But it is a fun car.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I searched google for Chevrolet Mexico and got this page.

    I clicked on the [translate this page] and was provided with this

    We can also drop the url of the page into this

    http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

    and get a translated page (mostly).

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jamcjamc Member Posts: 11
    Well, the sales are quite low. I think the malibu sales around 900 cars per month, and the vectra's sales are lower, around 300 per month. The thing is you can't go to a dealer and get any rebate here. Their are no discounts until this december that all manufactures are given then. We bought a 2007 Ford Ranger Crew cab for about 21 thousand including tax and interest. We always buy american brand cars, specially if they are made here in mexico.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Is your Ford Ranger CC a diesel or gas engine?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Another good reason is that GM does not make a lot of, if any, money an vehicles as small as the sub compacts. Perhaps that will change by March.

    This is where I question GM's strategy. They think that a $Billion on the Volt and then sell for $35K is ok, but selling a really high quality small car is not OK if they cannot make money on those. But the small car is where the entry buyers are and where brand loyalty is built. This is a very long term strategy. My friend bought a new Vega in '74 and it turned me off to GM for life. The excellent Cruze or whatever (as an example) would be the starter car that if excellent would bring in an entire generation of GM-loyal buyers. Seems like that would be more of a halo effect than the Volt.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Cobalt is a compact. GM has and will always probably sell a compact vehicle and even a sub compact. Our discussion was on vehicles like the Aveo and smaller and why there are not that many for sale here in the US yet they are in Mexico. Different buyers.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    LOL! One of the comments to that article points out that the "American" Chevy was built in Mexico while the "foreign" Honda was built in Ohio. But it's even funnier that the Chevy broke down immediately while the Honda remained unaffected. :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Cobalt is a compact. GM has and will always probably sell a compact vehicle and even a sub compact. Our discussion was on vehicles like the Aveo and smaller and why there are not that many for sale here in the US yet they are in Mexico. Different buyers.

    OK, but Honda sells the Fit and it has received excellent reviews, especially the new redesign. They expected to sell 30K/year but have been selling more like 80K. That's not too shabby and if those buyers are happy then you have another generation of people who are going to look at Honda first. Imagine if the Aveo hatchback was that good. Those buyers would be wanting to stay with GM. Even if GM lost some money, would they lose more than with the Volt? Will the Volt sell as many as a subcompact sedan? Things to consider.

    Perhaps the Cruze will be excellent. They should not even produce the car unless it is BETTER than the Civic or Mazda 3.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Toyota will drop more than GM this month. Trucks are selling. Compacts and subs are not.

    Toyota Motor Corp. forecast a first-ever annual operating loss, blaming a relentless sales slide and a crippling rise in the yen while declaring an emergency unprecedented in its 70-year history.
    The world's biggest automaker had been expected to issue its second profit warning in less than seven weeks after domestic rival Honda Motor Co. also cut its outlook again last week, but today's downward revision was bigger than analysts predicted.
    "We are facing an unprecedented emergency," President Katsuaki Watanabe told a year-end news conference today. "This is a crisis unlike the crises of the past."
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I was at Costco, and they had a 2009 Chevy Malibu sitting out in front, to advertise their car buying program. This was just a base Malibu, an LS1 or something like that. Had a sticker price of around $22,500. But, get this...there was an extra sticker on the side for add-ons, one of them being $995 for ADMU!

    Seriously, in this day and age, what dealer is going to stick a $995 markup on an entry-level midsize?!
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Actually the current Captiva is built on the same platform as the current Vue, Theta I. This 2010 is the new heavily revised Theta II architecture. Not sure where you got your data since it is all new.

    Hmm, AutoBild and C/D HK dont seem to agree. According to them (translated): the Theta II is a mildly revised Theta I, and even though GM claims the 2010 Captiva to be all new, the use of an altered Theta1 platform, the re-use of various components like the current model's whole A to C pillars, roof, doors, base engine, and even the same rear end as a whole leads us to assume that the "new" car will not be so new afterall. On the other hand we really welcome the upgraded interior, which leave the outgoing model's totally obsolete

    Well, the engine part is in fact debateable, as each country gets different engine options, but the rest is inexcuseable. Well, it's natural as perhaps you've never seen the Captiva with your own eyes. I have, and I dare say the description is accurate.

    Of course, it doesnt change the fact that the Captiva is a much more competitive product than the Equinox.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    $995 ADM on a base Malibu? image
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Of course, during all this Equinox commotion we all seem to totally forget that the Captiva, a.k.a Vue, Antara, and I guess future Equinox, are all based on Daewoo Winstorm. Yes you read that right, designed as Daewoo in Bupyeong Korea, from Chevy S3X concept.

    The good side? This proves, doesnt matter where a car came from, as long as its good.

    Bad side? Why, GM, why do we have to deal with clones again????
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    OK, but Honda sells the Fit and it has received excellent reviews, especially the new redesign. They expected to sell 30K/year but have been selling more like 80K. That's not too shabby and if those buyers are happy then you have another generation of people who are going to look at Honda first. Imagine if the Aveo hatchback was that good.

    Straight to the point. One will simply never understand what's so great about the Fit until he/she try it for his/herself. Always, always take note of the amazing Ultraseat configurations.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I tried out a Fit overnight last month. The dealer had about $1800 in ADM on it too. I laughed and it was never mentioned again when I asked them for a number. Nice seats but my wife didn't fall in love with it.

    Haven't looked at an Aveo but a Vibe is on the list. But we've quit looking for a while.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    That must be consolation. Hey, I'm going out of business tomorrow after tens of years of long and painful agony, but hey they other guy who did so well for so long has a first bad quarter. Yeah - my problems have nothing to do with my product being an overpriced, undercooked crap - it's all "circumstances".

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jamcjamc Member Posts: 11
    Our Ranger has the gas engine 2.3L no V6 here. They sell the diesel from belize all the way to argentina, but not here
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I could be wrong on the heavily revised. Got the info from a website.

    But in comparing photos of the 2008 Captiva and 2010 Equinox it does look like they share platforms which must mean the Captiva is theta II which would be different than out old Theta Vue?

    Looks like the 2010 Equinox doors are shared with the 2008 Captiva skins. Everything else exterior and interior wise are different. So it is pretty heavily revised coming to our country.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    I've been looking over the Captiva's pics and after a second thought I somewhat agree with you. If I recall correctly the rearside windows on the 2010 have a different shape than the old one. The rear hatch however, I still think it looks exactly the same as the current Captiva's. Also you may not notice but the roof design is also exactly the same.

    But in comparing photos of the 2008 Captiva and 2010 Equinox it does look like they share platforms which must mean the Captiva is theta II which would be different than out old Theta Vue?

    If C/D HK is correct, than I'm not surprised. With the Theta2 itself being a modified Theta1 it's nothing weird if both new and old model have the same or similar proportions.

    Captiva itself came from Theta1 architecture, as far as I know. The current Vue is a rebadged Opel Antara, which oddly also sold as Vauxhall Antara. The Antara-Vue is a reskinned Captiva. Captiva by itself is a mildly reskinned Daewoo Winstorm. Confusing huh?

    I believe the re-use of many parts from the outgoing model, such as doors, roof and rear hatch, plus the use of a revised Theta1 (ok, its Theta2 by name) are the reasons the upcoming 2010 Equinox looks so similar to the current Captiva. Hell put it next to the current Vue and you'll see some similarities as well.

    I've been saying many times that GM should dump the current Equinox and bring the Captiva here. It will finally be done, quite late imo but at least better than nothing.

    PS: is it just me or the instrument panel is lifted directly from the upcoming Camaro, and the steering wheel from the Volt?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >but Honda sells the Fit and it has received excellent reviews, especially the new redesign.

    I think that's a broad brush to say that it has only excellent reviews. I was watching Motorweek review their long term test unit. Amazingly they were throwing in a lot of negatives about it even though it's a foreign brand which they usually love. Their usual method is like consumer reports and they give a positive view about a car they like and in the second half of the compound sentence they include the negative. Most people hear the first part and miss the second part.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The dash is too deep, you can't see where the front end ends, and the automatic is gutless (my experience from test driving a couple). And it's overpriced by about $2,000.

    Back to GM now?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Thanks. That a refreshing evaluation.

    To make many happy or sad, another one bites the dust.

    Last day at Moraine Assembly for GM

    19000 (Delphi included) souls in 1999 to 572 souls employed today by GM in unison with Izusu.


    And there are hundreds in supplier jobs

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jamcjamc Member Posts: 11
    Today GM Mexico stop working, its gonna reopen until february. They where gonna reopen in mid Jan, but delayed it to the first week of feb.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The Bush administration bailout had an immediate impact at some General Motors and Chrysler LLC dealerships around the country. Nervous shoppers forged ahead with deals they had delayed out of fear that the automakers would skid into bankruptcy.

    "I had an elderly man and his wife who loved this new Impala," said Alan Starling, owner of Starling Chevrolet in St. Cloud, Fla., near Orlando. "They were going to buy it, but wouldn't until they knew President Bush was going to make this bridge loan to General Motors."

    The dealership delivered the new car late last week.

    On Monday, Dec. 15, a Manhattan businessman, worried about warranty and parts availability, held off buying a $74,000 Cadillac Escalade hybrid.

    But 30 minutes after President Bush's press conference on Friday, Dec. 19, the customer walked in with a certified check. He drove the black SUV off the lot before noon, said Anthony Ciarlo, Internet sales manager at Cadillac-Hummer of Mahwah in Mahwah, N.J.

    "I talked to him Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, but he was worried," Ciarlo said. "He said he didn't want to buy a Lexus, but he'd wait until he knew if GM would make it."

    Ciarlo said he didn't have an answer to the many people concerned about GM's future.

    Within minutes after Bush announced the $17.4 billion loans Friday, showroom traffic picked up at River Oaks Chrysler-Jeep in Houston.

    "We had customers who were waiting to make sure that parts and service would be there and that Chrysler would be a viable entity years from now," said dealer Alan Helfman.

    Jim Arrigo, co-chairman of the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep national dealer council, said: "We've been sitting on pins and needles."

    Saturn dealer Don Hudler, with six stores in Texas, thinks buyers will return to showrooms now that GM's liquidity issues are at least temporarily off the table.

    Said Hudler: "If we have a good weekend, that will be the barometer that more people have some confidence in all of us going forward."
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The federal and Ontario governments will provide the Canadian subsidiaries of the Detroit Three automakers with $3.29 billion in emergency loans, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Saturday.

    The announcement follows a pledge Friday by President George W. Bush to offer $17.4 billion in emergency loans to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC.

    Harper said Canada's rescue plan, the equivalent of 20% of the U.S. aid package, will help keep the plants afloat while the automakers restructure their businesses to retain one of the country's most important sectors.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Import brand automakers have walked a fine line during the debate here over federal aid to the Detroit 3.

    The companies want the government to help their U.S. rivals survive. But they don't want that help to impose big competitive disadvantages on them, said Mike Stanton, president of the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers. The association represents Toyota, Honda, Nissan and 11 other automakers.

    Late last week, Stanton praised the Bush administration's approval of $17.4 billion in emergency loans for General Motors and Chrysler LLC. He said the money would give the companies "time to work through their issues."

    Stanton said import brand companies also will support legislation aimed at helping the industry over the long term. Those measures include bills that would stimulate consumer interest in buying vehicles, he added.

    But Stanton conceded that members of his association largely avoided talking specifics during the bailout discussions.

    Invited to a senator's office, Stanton recalled, "We kept it at the 30,000-foot level — which, quite honestly, they didn't like."

    arl Quist, a consultant and former director of industry affairs for Toyota Motor North America, said Toyota told policymakers that failure of one or more of the Detroit 3 would take down suppliers that all automakers need.

    "Without parts, we can't make cars," Quist told Automotive News last week.

    Some members of Congress dragged the import brands into the fight. The lawmakers cited the imports' U.S. operations as examples of how to operate profitably and, they said, to build more environmentally friendly vehicles than the Detroit 3 has.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    On Monday, Dec. 15, a Manhattan businessman, worried about warranty and parts availability, held off buying a $74,000 Cadillac Escalade hybrid.

    If the guy can spend that much money on a new ride, the last thing he should worry about is the warranty and parts availability!
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Ford Fusion Hybrid to get 41 mpg city

    DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co.'s much ballyhooed 2010 Fusion Hybrid will get 41 city miles per gallon and 36 mpg on highways, based on final certification figures from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the company said Monday.

    The move is one of the final steps in getting the vehicle to dealerships next spring. Certification of the vehicle was recently completed at the company's testing laboratories in Allen Park.

    Ford said that the Fusion Hybrid tops Toyota's Camry hybrid -- its main competitor -- mileage by 8 mpg in the city and 2 mpg on the highway.

    The Fusion can travel up to 47 miles per hour using only battery power. After 47 miles, the car's four-cylinder engine turns on to power the car and recharge the battery.

    The Fusion's nickel-metal hydride battery is lighter and produces 20 percent more power than the Ford Escape hybrid. It also devised a way to get 28 percent more power out of the battery cells, said Praveen Cherian, program leader for the Fusion Hybrid.

    "It's not just one thing, but thousands," he said of the improved mileage numbers. "We've optimized the heck out of that vehicle, it's individual components."

    The battery can also tolerate higher temperatures, and Ford has eliminated its battery cooling system in the Fusion, allowing the battery to cool using regular cabin air.

    The company has also improved its regenerative braking system, which captures energy lost through brake friction and stores it for battery usage. Ford said 94 percent of brake friction energy is recovered in the new model.

    The Fusion also includes SmartGauge technology, which helps drivers adjust their driving to get more mileage out of the car.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Is this the plant where the Trailblazer/Envoy/9-7X are built? If so, then no tears are going to be shed, except for those workers.

    GM workers reach final day at Ohio SUV plant
    Associated Press
    MORAINE, Ohio -- Workers at General Motors Corp.'s sport-utility vehicle plant in the Dayton suburb of Moraine are working their last day at the factory.

    Tuesday is the final day of production at the plant, which has been pumping out GM vehicles for the past 27 years. About 1,080 hourly workers are employed at the plant.

    In June, GM announced it would close the plant because high gasoline prices were driving consumers away from the SUVs made there.

    Advertisement

    GM employed 19,000 workers in the Dayton area in 1999, before spinning off its Delphi supplier division. Tuesday's closing of the SUV plant will leave 572 workers at a GM engine plant in Moraine the automaker owns jointly with Isuzu.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    America cares little about fate of Detroit's Big Three

    Forget the politicians and their calculated "rescue" of Detroit's automakers. They won't be the ones who save, or kill, the Big Three where it matters most -- in the marketplace.

    It'll be the real people, would-be customers who decide to give General Motors Corp. metal another look or who credit Ford's Blue Oval for trying to make it without federal help. Or it'll be the people who long ago gave up on Detroit, who conflate bad experiences of a generation ago into sweeping condemnations of the companies today.

    I bring this up now because the bailout debate, punctuated by President George W. Bush's decision to throw the automakers a $17.4 billion lifeline, is delivering Detroit more attention than it wants or needs. And government largesse for GM and Chrysler LLC will keep this complex, politicized restructuring in front of taxpayers for months to come.

    Which means those inside the Detroit Bubble eager to remind folks on the outside that the automakers were FDR's "Arsenal of Democracy," that Detroit "created the middle class, and that an independent, U.S.-owned auto industry is an economic cornerstone may find most of the Bigger America doesn't agree and doesn't much care.

    Yes, federal officials are lending GM and Chrysler help, but they are clearly doing so while holding their collective noses with one hand and wagging their fingers with the other. Could it be that the politicians know their constituents are as fatigued by Detroit's troubles as the rest of us mired in this morass?

    Readers periodically e-mail objections to suggestions (from me and others) of an anti-Detroit Auto bias around the country. After the inquisitions called congressional hearings, the misinformed sanctimony from members of the California, New York and Massachusetts delegations and the snide slaps of Senate Republicans from the South, I'm not at all sure the e-mailers have much (if any?) evidence to buttress their point.

    Then, in today's e-mail, arrives more data to bolster mine: A CNN-Opinion Research poll reports that 70 percent of 1,013 Americans polled over the weekend said they opposed extending any additional aid to Detroit's automakers beyond March 31.

    Even as two-thirds said a bankruptcy of one or more automakers would be "a crisis" or would cause "major problems," more than 80 percent said an automaker bankruptcy would cause "minor problems" or "no problems at all" for their personal financial situation. And 65 percent said they would not be likely to consider buying a car from a bankrupt automaker.

    Translation: Detroit, you're on your own, though I'm not at all sure the message is resonating where it matters most.

    'A way of life' under siege
    Over the weekend, I ran into a prominent, thoughtful and recently retired Detroit auto executive out with his family for a holiday dinner. Amid the handshakes he looked at me and matter-of-factly said, "We're dismantling a way of life."

    He's right. But how many people in your workplace or neighborhood or school district realize it? Do they understand that the culture defined by Big Three salaries, benefits, expectations, vacation schedules -- where else in the country do people get a four-day weekend around Easter? -- will be torn apart over the next three months because it has to be?

    And if it isn't -- if United Auto Workers brass can call in enough political chits with congressional Democrats and Team Obama to keep from having to ask their members to vote on wage cuts and work rule changes next year -- what guarantee is there that it won't happen in bankruptcy anyway? None.

    On Sunday, an e-mail landed from Robert F. in Marin County, Calif. "Hello from the Left Coast," he began. "Here in California we don't much care about Ford, GM, Chrysler. We gave up on them years ago, (and) the rest of the country is following California's lead."

    A view from the 'Left Coast'
    I read on, marveling (but not surprised) that decades-old experiences with a '67 Olds Cutlass, an '81 Dodge Omni, a '91 Jeep and a '99 Ford Contour shaped a mind-set that Detroit probably could not break, no matter what it does. Add, too, his self-described "gold standard" -- "the '98 Camry LE I sold with 226,000 miles, with only a starter motor replacement at 180,000."

    "Quite honestly, it does not matter to the Left Coast if they all go bankrupt and take that greedy UAW with their incessant petty work-rule nonsense with them," he wrote. "Those idiots shut down GM in the summer over some ridiculous issues totally oblivious to the disaster upcoming."

    Yes, Robert, they did.

    "Good luck," he added. "You will need it."

    Yes, that too. A more contemporary understanding of Detroit's new metal also would help, but that's probably too much to expect when generalizations rooted in personal experience can suffice -- and show Detroit, yet again, just how problematic its revival truly will be among fellow Americans.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Your title said GM sales were up since Bush announcement. The article was anecdotes about certain individuals buying who had been holding off.

    Was there anything in the article that indicated GM sales, *overall* were up after the Bush announcement? Your title is not supported by the contents of the story unless I've missed it.

    I wonder if the GM market share will go up or down in December and January?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Again, so that we don't think you're just spinning, your title says "imports reiterate supplier issue". The quotes were from an association representing Toyota, Honda, Nissan and 11 other automakers.

    Sounds like a general US trade association that is probably 50% D3. I didn't see any quotes from the J3 in the article. The imports may very well be worried about suppliers, but an an all-US trade association's statement is not the same as "imports reiterating...". The article had no quotes from Honda, Toyota, or Nissan saying anything to that effect. Only vague attribution from third parties.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Congrats to Ford. This is an excellent example of where Ford appears to be making much better strategic decisions than GM. EPA class-leading numbers for a hybrid, from Ford! Not a $Billion Volt announced 5 years in advance that costs $35-40K.

    While GM was trumpeting the Volt, Ford was quietly designing a competitive hybrid.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I was surprised about the Fusion numbers myself. I knew Ford was using the best of the domestic hybrid systems, but that's frankly not saying much. But being able to beat the 800 lb gorilla in the room in the company that invented the modern hybrid vehicle in the first place...that's a serious "something." And the Camry design is relatively new, too, though I think they've got a mid-cycle refresh coming up.

    Malibu hybrid is definitely spanked. Fusion Hybrid may end up being the next Car of the Year, not just for being the best hybrid midsize around, but for bailing out Ford from within. If they can get the message out, get people to come in to the dealers and consider it (let's face it, some people are too sour on the D3 to even consider it)...word is it's a great midsize in general too, though we'll have to see how it holds up against Accord and Altima. AWD availability is a nice thing that Camry, Accord, and Altima just don't offer, which helps too. I think we may have ourselves a seriously competitive midsize here.

    And I DO love Fusion's styling...never liked Camry's looks, Accord's are OK, Altima's are OK, but in both cases I liked the previous generation better.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043

    Again, so that we don't think you're just spinning, your title says "imports reiterate supplier issue". The quotes were from an association representing Toyota, Honda, Nissan and 11 other automakers.

    Sounds like a general US trade association that is probably 50% D3. I didn't see any quotes from the J3 in the article.


    It is a trade association made up of all auto makers in the US EXCEPT the big 3. I have posted Toyota qoutes that agree with the subject matter here before.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Fusion hybrid may put the final nail in the GM coffin. Beating the smaller Malibu hybrid by a whopping 15 MPG in the city is no small feat. If it sells in the Camry Hybrid price range how can Ford lose?

    It will be interesting to see if those who have clamored for more fuel-efficient vehicles from American automakers and less reliance on foreign oil will support these Ford hybrids by actually buying one when the cars go on sale in early 2009.

    Ford also emphasized that the Fusion Hybrid’s E.P.A. rating bests its main competitor, the Toyota Camry Hybrid, by “8 m.p.g. in the city and 2 m.p.g. on the highway.” The Fusion’s city rating also is one mile a gallon better than the Honda Civic Hybrid. The Fusion also crushes anything General Motors and Chrysler have to offer.


    http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/ford-fusion-hybrid-is-rated-at-41-mpg- /?hp

    If it has a bigger trunk than the cramped Camry Hybrid it should outsell the Toyota offering. It is better looking than any of the competitors. It is fitting that Ford should end up the standard bearer for AMERICAN AUTO MAKING. So long GM :sick:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    If it has a bigger trunk than the cramped Camry Hybrid it should outsell the Toyota offering. It is better looking than any of the competitors. It is fitting that Ford should end up the standard bearer for AMERICAN AUTO MAKING.

    I read somewhere that the Fusion hybrid only has a 12 cubic foot trunk. That's pretty bad for a midsized car, but not for a midsized hybrid that's based on an existing car. In contrast, the Camry hybrid has an 11 cubic foot trunk, and the Altima only has a 10 cubic foot trunk!

    The Malibu hybrid has a 15 cubic foot trunk, probably because it's that "mild hybrid" system that probably doesn't take up as much space for batteries, I'm guessing.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The other nice part is that it beast out the CIVIC Hybrid...that's also a big deal, though not as big as beating Camry and Altima. After this, GM should hang its collective head in shame for daring to refer to the Malibu and Aura as "hybrids."

    See, it IS possible for an American company to compete, innovate, and dominate. Unfortunately, GM is not that company.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Unfortunately, GM is not that company.

    GM had the lead with the EV-1 and development of the NiMH battery used in all the Hybrids. They threw it all away to satisfy the 1990s Me generation's lust for the Big SUVs. GM 40 years ago was a leader. Toyota among others copied GM engine designs and who knows what else. They got lazy and lost the drive to be number one. Well now they are no longer number one. I don't think they will be able to hang on as number two much longer.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Unfortunately, it seems like GM fell into the same trap that many large market leaders do...they've been the leader for so long they think they have some divine right to that status. IBM went through the same thing, Microsoft is still finding its way through it, and Toyota may be headed for that as well (they're in for a wakeup call when that new Fusion hits the streets).
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Well, honestly I don't care much either.

    I've received some hate filled comments at other sites saying that I'm evil, unpatriotic, etc, etc. Some even suggested that I'm a terrorist wishing harm to US economy for not supporting the D3. Yeah, whatever.

    Here's the deal, I have issues with the D3 asking for taxpayers money to save them. It's their problem, not ours, and we shouldn't be penalized for it. The same goes to bailing out the banks, I dont support it either. Buy and takeover the banks and companies if the government must, but dont give them money with no strings attached.

    Without this bailout issue, I simply don't care if the D3 goes bust. What's the point supporting the D3 when they dont even bother giving us what we want, high-quality products that we can actually cross-shop with the imports. I won't bother supporting arrogance, greed, lazyness and corrupt minds the D3 are all about. It's made in America so we have to support it? Please.... (well, at least Ford is finally learning a lesson)

    The only reason I'm being soft in my views is because of the current state of the economy. Otherwise, I'd say drop dead, period.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    and Toyota may be headed for that as well (they're in for a wakeup call when that new Fusion hits the streets).

    Toyota is actually pretty pigheaded. It got the first wakeup call when the 2003 Altima hit it, hard. They woke up, for about a second and then went back to sleep. The Malibu didnt do a good job. I'm curious to see if the Fusion will be able to kick Toyota harder in the nut.
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