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Back to the topic, here's Michelle Krebs' report on the loans over at AutoObserver. $13.4B now and $4B more in February.
Edmunds predicts GM will sell 194,000 units in December, down 39.3 percent compared to December 2007 and up 26.6 percent from November.
Totally agree with you. This appears to be an easy loan with really no conditions. It's a punt to the next administration. There are no givebacks by UAW, no car czar, nothing other than "restructure". It's going to be up to Obama's administration to see what happens. The beginnings of the "bail out endlessly" scenario are starting to happen unless GM really intends to do some major restructuring. I'm doubtful that the UAW will really give much unless a gun is held to their heads.
recent overtime (not 60's)
Three car and crossover plants will add Saturday shifts and overtime as GM looks to build more of those vehicles. Those plants are:
• The Fairfax plant in Kansas City, Kan., which makes the Chevrolet Malibu and Saturn Aura.
• The Orion Township, Mich., plant, which builds the Malibu and Pontiac G6.
• The Lansing Delta plant in Delta Township, Mich., which makes the Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-164355195.html
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/12/A01-179537.htm
Interesting, I'm perfectly aware that those plants were never here to begin with. However, the Shenyang plant will be new, in case you haven't noticed. The only GM plant in China builds Buicks, not Cruze.
Actually GM has 8 plants in China. And again the China plant will build vehicles for China and the Lordstown plant will build Cruzes for NA.
http://news.alibaba.com/article/detail/car-news/100031381-1-gm-expands-8-plants-- china.html
Additionally, another plant supplies engines and transmissions for US built GM cars, Equinox, Cobalt, and Lacrosse to name a few. I wonder how GM can say their death also means the death of US suppliers when lots of their components now are made overseas...
Not sure where you get your data. LaCrosse currently has a flint built 3800, and US built 3.6 and V8. Cobalt also uses a US built engine. The Equinox base engine was a Chinese built 3.4 Liter but that will be gone with the new model coming out. I know of no other engine being imported. Perhaps a manual tranny is imported because we might buy one from a supplier. Please name another few vehicles because I am not aware of any. Anybocy else know of any?
I wont believe it, not when in reality most the engines, trans, suspension bits and even the batteries are produced somewhere else.
You can believe what you want but the data does not agree with your beliefs. I do agree though that GM is buying more from overseas every year. They have to to be competitive with the other companies that also buy from overseas. But I would say that GM buys more from NA than anyone else, but I do not have a data source. Does somebody have one? Rocky?
As far as importing outside of NA I do not know of any plans to do more and the only ones they import are the G8 and Astra. Am I wrong here?
Where did you get this? Well like you said things must be real bad right now.
The internet
Enclave is best looking of bunch IMO. Of course that is why I bought one. Only issue I have is the chrome on the rear taillamp pulled off. Supplier (not Delphi) did not install it correctly.
MPG on mine is what I expected. Getting 15 all city which is all I drive. Did drive it highway for about 16 hours and got 23.
My wife has a Traverse and I can see why it might get less mpg. It is cal'd like a sports car. Way too easy to get into it. I was very surprised how much more powerful it feels than my '08 Enclave.
Enclave 41K...2300
Acadia 63K..2600
Traverse 4500...3000
So the GMC/Buick/Pontiac franchise has sold 100K units.
Aveo. Not that it's competitive.
The Hummer brand (name) would still be owned by GM. Why can't they obsolete it, just like Coke did with "New Coke"? The Hummer name has little to no value, w/o the ability to actually make Hummers. In fact given the current sales of Hummers, and the anti-environment fervor over vehicle slike the Hummer, I'd say the brand-name has no value w/o the physical assets to make the vehicles.
And good luck to anyone who wants to sue because one car looks like another - there are many years of history of rebranding the same basic vehicle, and competitors making similar looking vehicles.
The point is GM, Chrysler and Ford can sell off their physical assets anytime they want to; there are buyers at some price. And those buyers might be willing to turn around and run those plants with a new management model, and produce autos. I'd bet that I could buy any of the physical assets of the B3 and turn around and make vehicles in that plant for about 67% of what it costs today. With that sort of cost savings I would have the most competitive price vehicles on the market.
Yes, especially today. Cerberus has been trying to find buyers and their are none. No one that I know of has the money to buy Chrysler and keep it running. GM does not. Ford does not. China does not (they are looking at loans for their companies already). Only Honda and Toyota may have the money and perhaps the pres. could split off some to them but I doubt Honda wants a 2nd minivan or a full size truck or even the Jeep line. Toyota is basically the same as Honda but they already have the full size truck. Perhaps Toyota would take Jeep?
there are buyers. The problem is Cerebus is asking for too much. Plus why buy now when in two months after Chrysler files for bankruptcy and it will be a much better buy?
Mitsu and Hyundai might have a crack at them too, with business partnerships and engine development/sharing agreements already in place. Hyundai uses the same blocks in many cases, so it'd be very advantageous for them. Mitsu...not so much probably.
I see, I'm only aware of 4 of them and they all build cars for local sales, although it doesn't change the fact that the Cruze plant is new and GM has no plan to sell Cruze in China as far as I know. But then again I may have missed the latest update.
As far as importing outside of NA I do not know of any plans to do more and the only ones they import are the G8 and Astra. Am I wrong here?
The Vue is a rebadged Opel Antara. Aveo a rebadged Daewoo Kalos.
Not sure where you get your data. LaCrosse currently has a flint built 3800, and US built 3.6 and V8. Cobalt also uses a US built engine. The Equinox base engine was a Chinese built 3.4 Liter but that will be gone with the new model coming out. I know of no other engine being imported.
The manual tranny is imported from China, while the automatic is built in Japan. I've personally seen Tahoe's rear shocks still in box and it says "made in Mexico", also Cobalt and Equinox batteries has "made in China" stamped on them. I asked a few people working for GM and they expect to see some future Camaro parts imported from Australia. There's much more but you get the idea.
I do hope GM trims this down. It's a difficult spot and clearly they are only getting holdover change from the current admin. If they hold on to three distinct lines after restructuring and make everything that survives fit into that they might have a shot. We're talking Chevy, Cadillac and whatever you want to call the middle.
Sorry, I thought I pasted the link.
General Motors Corp. opened its eighth vehicle plant in China and said it had no plans for adding further capacity amid slowing demand in Asia's biggest auto market. GM expects to boost China sales about 9 percent next year as it adds new models and an economic stimulus plan helps revive overall demand. Auto sales in China have declined in three of the past four months because of the global economic slowdown.
GM's China-made vehicle sales rose 8.1 percent in the first 10 months to 861,458. Its U.S. sales fell 20 percent to 2.56 million. China's industrywide auto sales jumped 11 percent to 7.83 million in the period, compared with a 15 percent drop in the U.S.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aWHbmXZFhiEs&refer=asia
GM has announced that its all-new compact sedan Chevrolet Cruze that debuted at the 2008 Paris Motor Show will enter the China market for sale simultaneously with its European launch. Shanghai GM confirmed that Chevy Cruze will come to the Guangzhou auto show next month and go on sale in China as a locally made car early next year, said Chinese media today.
According to GM, the Chevy Cruze "was developed by a global design and engineering team and will be built in multiple locations around the world" and is underpinned by the GM Delta II platform.
Always planned to be built and sold in China and in the US to be sold in the US.
Vue is built in Spring Hill, which is not in China. Did forget the Aveo. It is built at GM Daewoo Korea. I do foresee the sub compact Aveo replacment to be built overseas and imported. Then again I do not think any volume subcompact of any company is built in NA.
Never said GM did not buy parts form suppliers overseas. Quite the opposite. However GM is not importing very many vehicles from outside NA. Same with powertrains. Individual parts, yes.
Actually have (not at JC though) thank you very much and did very well.
It really wasn't an economics / finance-knowledge statement, but a common sense one.
The point I'm making is no serious buyer is in the market for a maker of oversized vehicles that play into the suburbanite / show-off / keeping up with the Jones' "needs" a large vehicle niche anymore. That only survives with the instant credit, cheap gas scenario. They've all but become extinct in my home area as well as other places I dwell - their market is based on that, a fleeting market. Maybe it's different in your neck of the woods and/or you feel Hummer is a great product and buy right now, for a low-ball offer. But there's a point where you (or GM in this case) says they can't take less than "whatever". Yes, I'm sure they could off-load Hummer if they ask for peanuts, but they aren't going to do that, feeling it's not justified to do that. They have not hit that point yet, wouldn't you agree?
VEBA: Agreed
My thinking on the Chrysler RWDs was that this may be a way for Ford to have an updated RWD platform, maybe give each division another RWD vehicle other than Mustang and the SUVs / Trucks (I'm not sure if Ford is still working on the RWD platform for Lincoln). I think with GM and their Holdens / Sigmas they would just dump the LX/LY-platform.
I didn't think of the GMC replacement. I actually like that because you can get rid of GMC and if you still want that "Professional Grade" you have higher-end Chevrolets or can jump to a Caddy Truck. The minivan is still a toss-up to me because either company could benefit from it, but considering their past efforts...
Have a good weekend!
I think the name/brand/goodwill may be the most valuable part of the package that GM is trying to sell. It's always been a luxo bling niche vehicle although the H3 diluted the Rambo image a bit. GM really should find a buyer in the Middle East to take it over. $4 gas pretty much killed the brand in North America.
GM did win a suit over the Jeep-like slotted Hummer grill a while back. (bnet)
They could put a Hummer-style body on a Malibu and call it the H4. Put a Hummer-style body on a Cobalt and call it the H5. Put a Hummer-style body on an Aveo and call it the H6! Hummer can grow into a full division!
But what I'm saying is that many millions hate GM because they own Hummer, whereas GM is selling thousands of Hummers. How much of a publicity boost would GM get if it ran ads saying Hummer is being ditched and they were sorry for ever having built those? Did they just gain millions of people who will now consider a GM product for that wonderful environmental stand? I think the Hummer name is a detriment to GM as a whole, despite that they may have made some money once from them. The luxo bling of GM is actually the Escalade - that is what the sports starts drive.
I forgot about that Jeep thing. It seems ridiculous to me though, unless something is trademarked and an exact match.
My understanding is VW is quite happy with their Mini-Van sales to date. They are a bit over priced. Maybe they upgraded the interior to their much higher standards.
That would not make Ahnold happy. Where would he get his Hummer fix. Of course he converted one to run on Hydrogen to make the greenies in CA like him. I think Ahnold only buys the H1 models. The real man off road machine.
The fellow that is buying a ranch from us drove his Accord to the property for close to a year until it totally disintegrated. He bought the H3 and absolutely loves it. It sure makes the 2.7 miles of fire road bearable. I don't like them but different strokes. I think the only Hummer dealer around here is a tag-along on the Cadillac dealership.
Don't they also build them for the military?
I'll give you that for sure. Instead GM mothballs the Volt engine plant. :sick:
Agree, like I mentioned before China and Mideast are Hummer's strong potential market.
Maybe they upgraded the interior to their much higher standards.
I checked out both in their websites. Seats, consoles, interior trim (not doors) are identical. IP and door trim are different. The Chryslers to me look a bit more upscale in a US way with wood trim. The VW looks nicely appointed in a teutonic way. They do share all the buttons/radio/HVAC/gauges/nav/steering wheel components. No idea what the materials are (soft/hard/etc.) w/o touching them though.
Don't they also build them for the military?
H1 was built by an outside company for GM. They also built a version for the government. GM has not sold H1's for years and I thought they were not being built for the government anymore but I could be wrong on that.
Wagoner said they would have news on a Hummer sale in January. There is a big market for them overseas. So perhaps a rich sheik will but the company? Whoops, they are no longer that rich anymore.
Yep, sure, GM is really re-forming itself. Sounds more like the old GM we know, love, and is going to go bankrupt.
GM, as some here seem to repeat constantly, is on the verge of going out of business in this 10 million vehicle anneal sales. Even Honda and Toyota are taking downtime and have announced they will be unprofitable THIS fiscal year and will be next year if things do not change. It is only prudent that all the OEM's delay what they can until sales increase and profitable times are back. The plant that was to be a truck plant was revised to be a small car plant and now is mothballed. All in 3 months. That sounds prudent to me.
The Pontiac Solstice GXP, Saturn Sky Redline, and Chevrolet HHR SS are
plenty of fun with 260 horsepower underfoot, and we can only imagine
that the joy quotient increases as power improves. General Motors'
performance division knows as much, and it's now offering an LNF Turbo
Upgrade kit to kick its 2.0L turbo direct injection engine into gear.
The kit consists of a new engine calibration and MAP sensors that will
push your turbo four to 290 horsepower and up to 340 lb-ft of torque
with the six-speed manual transmission (315 - 325 lb-ft with a slush
box). The new factory turbo kit also keeps the precious warranty intact,
which is a huge bonus over other aftermarket setups.
The LNF Turbo Upgrade also gives the GXP, Redline and SS the same
"no-lift shift" functionality as the Cobalt SS Turbo, which enables you
to shift without taking your foot off the accelerator. The kit also
bumps the redline by 200 to 6500, but the hulkified 2.0L engine will now
demand premium fuel to deliver its increased power delivery. The General
is also working on a similar upgrade kit for the Cobalt SS, and it
should arrive at your local Chevy dealer during Q1 2009. The LNF turbo
kit delivers some added pop to three already fun vehicles, and it can be
purchased at a GM dealer for $650.
Yet Toyota already has a place to build Priuses, so it's not like it's going to disappear...they're just delaying additional manufacturing capacity. The Volt, on the other hand, will remain vaporware.
GM, as some here seem to repeat constantly, is on the verge of going out of business in this 10 million vehicle anneal sales. Even Honda and Toyota are taking downtime and have announced they will be unprofitable THIS fiscal year and will be next year if things do not change. It is only prudent that all the OEM's delay what they can until sales increase and profitable times are back. The plant that was to be a truck plant was revised to be a small car plant and now is mothballed. All in 3 months. That sounds prudent to me.
GM has a habit of not thinking long term, that's been their problem for quite a while, and it continues to be such. If the VOlt plant was just additional capacity I'd agree with mothballing it, but that's supposed to be a new model that carries them into the future, which means the move is penny-wise but pound foolish. They don't even have a full two-mode hybrid that isn't a truck yet, for pete's sake! And now we see them delaying ANOTHER small, fuel-efficient vehicle. Long term, this is going to HURT GM.
Any word on the Cruze? How much do you want to bet that gets delayed too? But I bet whatever new Cadillac BLING that's coming comes out right on time (well, at least Caddy is worth some effort these days, they're popular, profitable, and desirable). This is the sort of thing we've learned to expect from GM, which is why so few are hopeful about their survival. Though maybe Caddy will make them enough money to skid along for a while.
Compare this to Ford...you may have heard of them? New Fusion coming out in 3 months? Brand new full hybrid version a little later? Most advanced hybrid setup around? Beats up on Camry and Altima hybrid in MPG? Work continuing on Escape, new Explorer, etc, etc? new Fiesta coming? Just released an F150 that they can't keep up with demand for?
And one-tenth the quality and handling. :shades:
Price in USD Regular/Gallon
Saudi Arabia Riyadh $0.91
Kuwait Kuwait City $0.78
Egypt Cairo $0.65
Nigeria Lagos $0.38
Venezuela Caracas $0.12
I'll take 3 Hummers please at the Red Tag price!
Regards,
OW
Even if Toyota makes no profit on Prius they can still afford it, doesnt matter if sales are down this year, Toyota still has plenty of cash around. GM? Go figure.
They are ramping up production after changeover to the new model. Plants were down and not producing for awhile. Even with a brand new truck they have a 67 day supply which in this market is darn good but then again the now old Silverado has a 96 day which is about right for today. Toyota truck is at 98.
My point is that every OEM is stopping any capital investments they can. Everybody will be losing money or they soon will be.
They are ramping up production after changeover to the new model. Plants were down and not producing for awhile. Even with a brand new truck they have a 67 day supply which in this market is darn good but then again the now old Silverado has a 96 day which is about right for today. Toyota truck is at 98.
I think bpituzzi's original point was that Ford is better positioned with mainstream products in the near-term pipeline and GM has a dearth of those. The problem with GM has been that they have the CTS, which is great but not a mainstream high volume vehicle, the Camaro is not going to be a high volume vehicle, and the Volt is too expensive, too much vaporware, and is not likely to make GM any money for many years if at all. You have to question the strategy and priorities at GM in product development. Ford has mainstream products - hybrids, midsize sedans, small cars, that look to be very competitive and they are near production.
GM should have a full product line with great quality at all levels. They currently have pretty good large trucks and SUVS -that's great until the market tanks (which it has done). OK, midsize mainstream sedans - well the Malibu is at least competitive. Aura not selling and Saturn is a failure. G6 is tired and not competitive. Midsize crossovers - doing OK, but reliability is still not great. Small car - Cobalt - not competitive against market leaders and probably number 4 or worse in ranking of competitiveness in this segment. Very small car - Aveo - not competitive at all against Fit, Yaris, Mini. Premium sport sedan - nothing competitive against Jetta, TSX, BMW 3 series, A4, etc.
GM will never support a large sized company on competitive Volt, CTS, and Malibu. GM needs more than good trucks and SUVs. GM needs world-class vehicles to compete with Prius, Civic, Mazda 3, Fit, Accord, and Camry. Getting somewhat close with Malibu but that is only one car. What about the others? GM could have been spending it's Billion used on Volt to make those other competitive vehicles, but they have not.
Exactly. GM reminds me sort of as a "one hit wonder." They only seem to have one "hit" at a time, and it tends to be at the expense of everything else, and it's not often that that "hit" is in the mainstream areas. Malibu is Ok, as mentioned, but it's about to be SERIOUSLY one-upped (by the Fusion rather than a Camcord, which HAS to sting). Camaro is coming, but that's only in response to Ford's Mustang. Volt has already been back-burnered, Impala, Cobalt, and Aveo are getting grey hairs right now but there's no replacements in sight except for the Cruze. The Cruze MIGHT help GM if it ever makes it to dealers, however, it's also a prime candidate for a delay as a money-saving measure.
Other than the Camaro and Cruze, what does GM have coming for the mainstream? Heck, they don't even have a full hybrid car yet (only trucks) do they?
Will it find buyers for Saab & Hummer? Can it declare Saturn as dead and close Saturn dealers? Can it cut production of all other models by 30%? I know all of this can (painfully) be done, but 3 months is just too short. Maybe I am missing something here, unless they declare bankrapsy.
They have their "weak hybrids" which is not much more than a motor in place of the alternator to add a tiny bit of "boost" to the engine. It adds about 2mpg but that way GM can call it a hybrid even though for all intents and purposes it isn't worth a damn. Sort of like advertising the Volt 5 years before its availability. The emperor has no significant clothes and the big money spent on product development has been on the emperor's jewelery, not the clothes.
The reason Ford should be admired is that even thought their product has been poor for years, in the last 2 years they
- replaced the CEO with an industry outsider for fresh perspective (even Bill Ford was smart enough to know he was not the right guy). Mullally then:
- put a plan in place
- mortgaged Ford to the hilt to get the money to execute the plan
- has been shedding crappy models and divisions
- is focusing on product - he is bringing successful European vehicles to US and has a great looking Fusion and Fusion hybrid coming soon
GM on the other hand has
- never admitted Wagoner should go, even though he's a big part of the problem
- spent $$$ on the Camaro, a reaction to the Mustang
- brought out the HHR, a reaction to the PT Cruiser
- spent $$$$$$$ on the Volt which will cost 40K
- they continue to make excuses about the bad economy being their problem rather than their poor strategic decisions
- been totally reactive to market forces
Camaro - reaction to Mustang
HHR - Reaction to PT Cruiser
Malibu "hybrid" - reaction to Camry, Altima, Prius hybrids.
Thankfully dead minivans - reaction to Dodge Caravan
Cruze - reaction to Ford successfully bringing Euro small cars over
Saturn - reaction to Honda and Toyota.
GM spends a lot of time one step behind everyone else. Not only that, but their reactions aren't usually refinements of the original, but more like poorly-done imitations..like Malibu Hybrid or the minivans. Time will tell about the Cruze, though I'm worried given GM's recent record. Same with the Camaro, though I bet the Camaro has more chance of reaching dealer lots than the Cruze.
GM seems to save a lot of its innovation for Cadillac. All well and good, makes Cadillac a great brand with great cars, but because of their desire for some exclusivity surrounding Caddy, the technology and platforms don't make it into the mainstream Chevy brand. Basically, they're killing Chevy to save Caddy.
I mean come on, can you imagine if the next Malibu or Impala was based on the CTS? :shades:
It will take a heck of a lot MORE to convince me. That POC Equinox I rented for two weeks in Hawaii last April was horrible in just about every aspect. Noisy, noisy, noisy. Road noise, engine noise, brake noise. It had less than 10k miles and was worse than a 20 year old vehicle should be. And the mileage was at best 1-2 MPG better than the much nicer Trail Blazers and Explorers from previous years. I think one tank yielded 18 MPG. Pretty pathetic for an under powered CUV.
Well, the car itself looks tons better than the outgoing model. The Captiva by itself has been around for 2-3 years already. Regardless of that, good choice from GM, finally.
After people drive it, they're going to realize that it's the same old Equinox, just facelifted.
Actually the current Captiva is built on the same platform as the current Vue, Theta I. This 2010 is the new heavily revised Theta II architecture. Not sure where you got your data since it is all new. I would hope that this also would become the Captiva sold overseas and elsewhere in the world.
Why? That's what the Traverse is for. Cannibalizing itself is one of the things that got GM into its current predicament.
Hawaii Chevrolet dealer crushes auto competition (Idaho Statesman)
I swear I've seen that steering wheel before, somewhere.
Regards,
OW