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I'm baffled, GM has the Opel name, a brand with worldwide reputation. Why bother badging it as Pontiac, why not just Opel?
At least give us this as the next Malibu, now that will be a worthy contender.
Do not have any idea why GM would be going bankrupt with some idea of producing vehicles elsewhere for US consumption
I didnt say anything about GM going BK from this. I'm just saying GM is talking big about keeping employment in US, how are they gonna go that when plants (even if its just 1) go overseas? Why produce Cruze in 4 different plants when the plants probably won't be running at 100%, making it even less efficient? (as far as I know no plants run at 100% capacity) Weird...
I'm just saying GM is talking big about keeping employment in US, how are they gonna go that when plants (even if its just 1) go overseas? Why produce Cruze in 4 different plants when the plants probably won't be running at 100%, making it even less efficient? (as far as I know no plants run at 100% capacity) Weird...
GM has plants all over the world building vehicles for the markets where they are built. These non US plants are not going overseas. They were never here. The plant in the US will build cars for the US. The plant in China will build vehicles for Asia.
GM feels that the Cruze, with any other vehicles built in the same plants (Delta 2), will keep them running at capacity. Lots of plants used to run at capacity. All kinds of overtime. Just ask the UAW who are complaining about the loss of OT and what it has done to their life style.
As far as I know Opel is only a european brand.
In GM's plan, wouldn't it make sense to eliminate Saturn and re-badge the current Saturn line-up as Pontiac? this way you still have a direct avenue to bring the cars overseas to the NA market. Just a thought.
For 2008 they "jumped" to 2 problems per vehicle. Below Cadillac and Buick but above industry average. Chevrolet dropped .1 problems per vehicle.
But as I have said reliability is a non issue today due to how close all the makes are, per the data. Unless you are buying a Land Rover, Kia or Suzuki!!
Perhaps you can forward your Barber's name to Mr. Bush.
It'll take a crew cut required by the Marines to get all D3 companies back into shape.
You will see at the end of the transformation it will be called "prepackaged restructuring". C11 Lite controlled by Uncle Sam, so to speak.
Regards,
OW
Factory Delay
Regards,
OW
The idea of C11 Bankruptcy is to restructure operations and come out a healthy business at the end of the tunnel. That's the idea. Now the Government will oversee US Auto Industry transformation because the insiders are a sad case to get it done on their own. They also KNOW this will happen so plans continue.
Regards,
OW
The idea of C11 Bankruptcy is to restructure operations and come out a healthy business at the end of the tunnel. That's the idea. Now the Government will oversee US Auto Industry transformation because the insiders are a sad case to get it done on their own. They also KNOW this will happen so plans continue.
No idea what your comment has to do with the discussion.
Again GM is not holding possible bankruptcy over the US so they can close plants in the US and open them overseas. The China Cruze plant is just one of four plants to supply a world wide vehicle world wide. The Lordstown plant will build the NA Cruze vehicles.
Toyota is down 33%
Ford down 30%
Chev down 37%
Honda down 30%
Dodge down 44%
Nissan down 44%
Jeep down 42%
Chrysler down 56%
Lexus down 35%
BMW down 36%
MB down 38%
overall down 37%
November was the great equalizer month. Thru November there was quite a range in the data but November really hit everyone similarily.
Toyota -13.4%
Ford -19.0%
GM -21.8%
Honda -5.4%
Chry -27.7%
Nissan -9.1%
BMW -12.3%
MB -8.6%
Overall -16.3%
So you see, GM, C and F lead the fall in 2008. That tells all.
Regards,
OW
Looks to be available in March.
We may see Chrysler 6ft under real soon... GM can be next, then Ford will most likely be the last domestic standing.
Looks like new LaCrosse and Equinox will use it. I assume it will be base in the LaCrosse? 255 hp pretty high since old LaCrosse had 3.8L 200 hp standard.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Wouldn't it make sense to just drop the 3800 completely, and use the 3.5 in Grand Prix/LaCrosse as well? Or are is the 3.5 in too short of supply?
Lot of work to put in a new engine even if the powertrain is already in the architecture. So GM waited for LaCrosse's replacement.
Grand Prix production will be discontinued as of November 2007.
GM has not yet established a final order cutoff date.
In looking at inventory Honda has 107 days. Toyota has 90. Nissan 110. GM 139 Ford 101. Chrysler 117.
But you have to be careful with days supply. Selling rates, which have been crazy lately, really screw them up.
Oh yeah, I guess that would make sense...even if the engine gets discontinued, there are still going to be a bunch of them already on hand that need to be put to use.
GM/Ford would be better off if Chrysler went under.
Best announcement for the country:
Chrysler “bought” by US government for 3 billion from Cerberus. Jeep “given” to GM or Ford with Jeep assembly plants. Minivan does the same thing with VW or Ford or GM. Ram truck and plants sold to Nissan for a respectable amount or if Nissan does not have the cash now have them take with money to be paid later to the government or a percentage of each truck sale. Everyone else at Chrysler bought out with 1 year salary by government. This allows employees one year to get out of town or find another job w/o losing their homes and killing the economy.
GM gets 8 billion to last them thru March but:
No job banks.
No sub pay during temporary lay offs
Get concessions from loan holders
10% pay cut across board (salary and hourly)
no bonus’s
Get rid of Saturn, Hummer
Buy out unneeded dealerships with government money(franchise laws)
Force retiree health care to be paid for by retirees(give retirees a one time cash payout to help)
Lower retiree pensions amounts and take the overfunded funds money and give money to GM
Stay out of the future product plans. They are already doing enough with their small cars and alternative powertrains.
Buy out unneeded dealerships with government money(franchise laws).
Based on public opinion of car-dealers, I don't think that would be very popular. I would say the tactics of car-dealers have contributed to poor B3 sales. I always felt like the B3 dealers were treating customers as if they were idiots (less so with foreign makes, where the prices are firmer, and you don't feel used).
Chrysler “bought” by US government for 3 billion from Cerberus.
I find this curious. Why does the government have to be the middleman here? Please explain why Cerberus can't sell the valued parts of Chrysler directly tomorrow. Because they're not worth $3B?
Ding! Ding! Ding! Give that man a cigar! That's the answer!
Of course the correct answer here is to let Cerberus sell the parts off and take the loss. I understand that they aren't used to that.
Yes, especially today. Cerberus has been trying to find buyers and their are none. No one that I know of has the money to buy Chrysler and keep it running. GM does not. Ford does not. China does not (they are looking at loans for their companies already). Only Honda and Toyota may have the money and perhaps the pres. could split off some to them but I doubt Honda wants a 2nd minivan or a full size truck or even the Jeep line. Toyota is basically the same as Honda but they already have the full size truck. Perhaps Toyota would take Jeep?
The US grab would keep the Chrysler ex employees in their homes for awhile until they can find new jobs. We do not need more foreclosures. The good parts of Chrysler can be kept going and give other OEM's a chance to make some money.
Buy out unneeded dealerships with government money(franchise laws).
Based on public opinion of car-dealers, I don't think that would be very popular. I would say the tactics of car-dealers have contributed to poor B3 sales. I always felt like the B3 dealers were treating customers as if they were idiots (less so with foreign makes, where the prices are firmer, and you don't feel used).
I do not get your response. Dealer franchise laws require that companies supply product unless they go out of business. To reduce the number of dealers someone needs to buy them out. So if GM wants to reduce their dealerships the US government can either change the laws (state laws) or buy them out. This is one big reason why GM has not been able to reduce the number of brands. So to reduce brands they need to do something about the dealers.
What are your "governmental" thoughts on the VEBA payment GM (as well as Ford) was to make? Do you believe the government would cancel that GM / Ford payment all together or just delay it to a certain time period, say, to when the company(s) regain their strengths?
Also, do you think the government would favor Jeep going to Ford instead of GM since GM still has Saturn and particularly Hummer (which it really can't give away right now)? And what of the LX (LY) cars - 300/Charger/Challenger - I would guess Ford as GM would most likely drop them.
Jeep has no value.
Chrysler has no value.
Dodge has no value.
Eagle is extinct.
Plymouth is extinct.
Cerebus should just take a tax write off and mark it down to zero and give it to charity! Donate Chrysler to the Salvation Army or something.
I fear that Chrysler has negative value right now.
Sure there are buyers - at the right price. Cerberus is asking too much, not wanting to accept further loss. That is all. The right price is lower then they're asking. If they put it up for auction then buyers would make bids, and the highest price would be the right price - what someone is willing to pay for it. Who knows, that may be $250M.
You also assume that only existing auto companies would buy it. Cerberus wasn't an auto company and bought Chrysler.
The public would rather the laws be thrown out (laws can be changed with a stroke of a pen), or let GM goes as bankrupt as needed to trash the agreement, before money went to dealers. It would be political suicide for many politicians to bailout millionaire dealers, while the middle-classes are losing hundreds of thousands of jobs, and have lost vast sums on their house and 401K this year.
You're saying they can't get anything for it? $0 ??!! Again they are asking too much for it. It will sell if they lower the price. It is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. They can get more than $0 - I'll make them an offer right now.
Take some Economics and Finance course guys, at your local community college.
For example if I'm down on my luck in Vegas, and I need to get some cash for a plane ticket home I might go to a pawn-shop and sell my gold watch. Now the watch has 2 oz of gold in it which is worth $1,500 just in the gold. The pawn shop offers me $750, I go to another and they offer me $725. I say this is worth $1,500, at least! I'm not going to sell it! They say go see what other offers you get. While trying to sell the watch on the street, I lose track of time, and the pawn shops close. I end up selling the watch for $500 on the street.
If GM or Cerberus want to sell something then they should. What they sell for = what it's worth right now. The government should not absorb a loss based on what either GM or Cerberus think its worth or what they say they need.
Are you willing to accept all the liabilities that will likely accompany any deal?
Even if you think you are just buying an unencumbered asset, anyone with a warranty or tort claim will be knocking on your door.
That's what's attractive about buying the assets in bankruptcy. The judge can keep the new owner clear of lots of those kinds of claims.
Now I know what you smoke!!!!
This recession is going to rip apart the American landscape like nothing we have ever seen. I have a very bad feeling about the next couple of years.
I know I am going to get some grief for this, but with some blame going to the companies themselves, I put most of the blame on the unions for this mess. If they were smart they would go to the automakers and start making deals instead of sitting on their butts, waiting for the impending disaster. If I were an employee of one of these companies I would be a whole lot more happy to take less pay than nothing at all.
If any of us had a family member that had a accident and cut themselves, and that family member was bleeding to death. Would any of us stand over that person and yell at them for not being more careful. No, even though the car companies have made some mistakes, and they shouldn't have made these deals with the unions in the first place, but, does that mean the unions should let them bleed to death. And the truth is, in the next couple of years the economy is going to get a lot worse and every car company is going to be in a world of hurt, so the unions should really smarten up and stop being so bullheaded.
I would think that the Union should allow delay of the VEBA payments until financially viable and I think in March that would be one condition.
The best place for Jeep is probably Ford since they do not really have a truck brand. They could add Jeep to the Ford/Mercury/Lincoln dealerships and that would only help those dealerships.
Only Ford may keep the rwd chryslers since they do not have a strong segment here. GM do not need and I do not see Toyota or Honda wanting them.
On the other hand GM already has GMC. However I could see GMC dropped and replaced by Jeep. GMC is basically only a full size truck seller. Acadia should go and have Jeep vehicles instead. Stronger brand equity than GMC.
Welcome to the heat. There's plenty of bullheadedness to go around between GM, Chrysler and the UAW (probably Ford too, but they're in better shape and can afford to be bullheaded). What you have is Nardelli, Waggoner, and Gettlefinger trying to give up as little of their own empires as possible while making the other guy give up as much as possible.
heard on the radio one day about the UAW's golf course, comparing it with the Big3 jets and how it should be sold too. Except for one thing: a golf course is a revenue generator. A jet is...um...not. Unless Ford Airlines is starting up anyway.
Japan’s seemingly infallible Toyota Motor Corporation is expected to report it first-ever yearly operating loss, according to media reports released early Friday. For the fiscal year between March 2008 and March 2009, the automaker will likely post a small loss, caused by slumping sales in the latter half of the year.
I actually disagree. Almost all plants worldwide are operating below 100% for a simple reason: in total they're capable of producing 30-50% more than what the market can absorb. The story goes further with US plants, where recession and constant sales loss in the D3 left very, very few plants running at full capacity. Lots of plants used to run at capacity? Sure, the keyword here is "USED TO", and I will add the question with "WHEN?" back in the 60s?
UAW complain over the loss of overtime? That's weird, they were the very same people who used to complain about the vast overtime they had to do before, and now they complain because there's no more overtime? The problem was GM isn't allowed to take non-union employees for their plants, otherwise the UAW wouldn't have had those overtimes to begin with.
"GM has plants all over the world building vehicles for the markets where they are built. These non US plants are not going overseas. They were never here. The plant in the US will build cars for the US. The plant in China will build vehicles for Asia. "
Interesting, I'm perfectly aware that those plants were never here to begin with. However, the Shenyang plant will be new, in case you haven't noticed. The only GM plant in China builds Buicks, not Cruze.
Additionally, another plant supplies engines and transmissions for US built GM cars, Equinox, Cobalt, and Lacrosse to name a few. I wonder how GM can say their death also means the death of US suppliers when lots of their components now are made overseas... Feel free to claim that 80% of GM components are built locally. I wont believe it, not when in reality most the engines, trans, suspension bits and even the batteries are produced somewhere else. Not to mention the US sold cars that are built in Korea, Mexico, Canada, etc. With inventories piling up there's no excuse "we cant keep up with demand" crap.
When will we all admit that production cost in US is too high and no matter what the D3 will resort to overseas plants and parts suppliers to cut costs?
Bush in the end agrees to a 17.4 billion loan for GM and Chrysler, its on the news just minutes ago. Naturally UAW must accept the new wage contract as one of the terms.
What I'd buy is the plants, property and parts in those plants. I have no interest in the past agreements of Hummer. I'm buying physical assets only. Those plants then become part of Kernick Motors, and I have my HR manager hiring people, and a Purchasing Manager contacting suppliers to see if they want to sell parts to me - seeing they already have the tooling. I'd have a Sales Manager setup a website where you can design and place an order for your vehicle, and eventually put in the information of what bank will transfer us the money for payment (no dealers). One low price, no MSRP/discount bulloney. We'd offer a 30 day warranty - 3rd party, which would keep our price low. If you want to spend $2,000 more then we'll get the 3rd party warranty extended.
I think the Acadia is the best looking of the bunch on that platform. The Chevy Traverse is Aztek ugly. The Enclave & Vue are not too bad looking. Which one is selling best? I have read reports on the transmission and fuel mileage being less than desirable.
LOL! ROTFLMAO! That is DEFINITELY my favorite remark for this week here at Edmunds! Thank you for a great laugh! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)