GM News, New Models and Market Share

uplanderguy

You surely know what I mean....through the normal retail channels like anyone would buy any other automobile.

busiris

Carmaking in Mexico...

http://azstarnet.com/business/mexico-auto-production-rates-with-world-s-best/art- icle_c2ca81ef-3125-5360-8fd6-5f67797d41d5.html

uplanderguy

Thanks, NAFTA.

tlong

Thanks, NAFTA.

We are exporting tons of our crops south of the border, and it has devastated a lot of small Mexican farmers. It's not like we get a balanced story on NAFTA.

uplanderguy

Well, since I'm on this side of the border and many people I know have been negatively affected by NAFTA, I'm able to say that I care about them more than Mexican farmers affected negatively by the U.S. There, I said it.

obyone

From a business point of view there is no choice. Compare labor rates between a Mexican factory worker and one from the UAW. It's a no brainer to move manufacturing to Mexico or wherever the UAW isn't. Personal feelings be damned. We are talking about profits.

Superior quality workers

uplanderguy

One simply cannot expect Americans to do that work at Mexican wages.

I enjoyed "Gung Ho" too, BTW...remember the part where the Japanese manager wouldn't stop the line when a worker's hand was caught in the machinery?!

Incidentally, the plant (non-auto) that I'm most familiar with that was closed after 80 years and production moved to Mexico--the first Mexican customer order was so screwed up, it had to be returned to be reworked, something that rarely if ever happened at the old Greenville plant.

As a U.S. citizen, I'm more interested in the U.S. than other countries. It used to be that most people were, but I'm not so sure anymore.

uplanderguy

Geez, I hope these renderings are wrong:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2014-chevrolet-corvette-exterior-design-revealed- -in-new-illustrations.html

uplanderguy

We have a Chinese student living with us for this month-long Christmas break from college. My daughter brought her home.

She's a great girl, very smart. She is from southern China (city name escapes me). I asked her about automobiles, and included 'Chery' and Buick in the question. She hadn't heard of either, but said she mostly sees Japanese brands such as Honda and Toyota.

uplanderguy

...since I dropped the wife's Malibu off at the body shop because somebody on a cell phone bumped it from the rear last week.

29.4K miles. It seems fairly tight, but two things sort of surprised me right away:

1) The steering feels more assisted (lighter) than the Malibu, which I think is the opposite of conventional wisdom.
2) There is a lot of play in the brake pedal before they actually grab.

I've never been a fan of Teutonic styling, so the dash design leaves me cold.

I've read that the Jetta is a fairly inexpensive car, so I probably don't have any room to complain.

fintail

And the Jetta has a "3" VIN, so it is an "American" car according to some here :shades:

uplanderguy

I thought serial nos. starting with "1" meant American?

Oh, you're being humorous, I get it! (sorry for the 'slow on the uptake'!)

The seats are comfortable...they are perforated and look like vinyl but I'll assume they're leather. (Does anybody use vinyl anymore?)

Plastic wheel covers, no side molding, silver, black interior. Had I not seen "VW" on the back, I'd have probably guessed it as a Mitsubishi or Kia, honestly. Looks more Asian outside than a German design to me.

fintail

Yes. A "3" is Mexico, the 52nd state (Canada is the 51st) :shades:

No doubt it is a rental spec with vinyl ("leatherette") interior - I don't know if genuine leather is available on a lower line car. They are not uncommon in rental fleets, especially as VW is now fighting with Toyota for sales numbers. I think side molding is going away on many cars, I can't think of the newer style Jetta having it. The car has been criticized for being too big and bland, but I think it now sells better than old ones, and is much more reliable. I knew of a couple people with older style Jettas, bought new, who had endless issues.

Oh, and speaking of GM and issues, my sister bought a Sonic about 4 months ago, and has had no real problems. But...I talked to her yesterday, and she had a fun story. A couple weeks ago, she was sitting in a parking lot, and the rear windshield exploded. She thought she had been shot at. Warranty replacement. Weird.

uplanderguy

Boy, that is weird. I can remember hearing a similar story about two cars over the years...my grandparents' '63 Bel Air wagon and my cousin's '72 Impala Sport Coupe.

On the wagon, the rear window was cracked all over one morning (no sign of anything hitting it), and on the Impala, on a hot day, my cousin came out of the supermarket and the driver's door glass was shattered all over the place.

I gotta believe we'll be hearing about a recall for that on the Sonic eventually.

andre1969

A couple weeks ago, she was sitting in a parking lot, and the rear windshield exploded. She thought she had been shot at. Warranty replacement. Weird.

My grandmother's cousin's '89 Coupe DeVille did that a few years ago, just sitting in her driveway on a hot summer day.

And, this past summer, my buddy's 2006 Xterra's windshield started cracking, from the base upward, for what seemed like no reason at all. It was a hot day, as well.

fintail

It certainly wasn't a hot day here. She seemed to be under the impression that it was installed wrong, but I bet it was just a bad piece of glass, it happens. The warranty claim wasn't too bad - she got a little resistance, but she had called the police when it happened originally, as she suspected something criminal. She had paperwork from them to show it wasn't shot at :shades:

tlong

I enjoyed "Gung Ho" too, BTW...remember the part where the Japanese manager wouldn't stop the line when a worker's hand was caught in the machinery?!

Cute, but irrelevant. No industrialized nation (not even China) operates this way. Kind of a sad implication to bring it up.

busiris

I've never been to China, but I've seen some manufacturing facilities in Mexico. While I'm sure one can find sweat-shops there (here, too), the places I've seen looked no different than I would expect to see here.

OTOH, if one wants too see 3rd world labor practices in the US, go down to Lake Okeechobee and Belle Glade, FL and you can see sugar cane grown and harvested just like they do it in Cuba. Sugar cane is THE industry in that part of Florida, and its easy to quickly forget you're in the US driving through the area.

ateixeira

In fact, the actual name of the car was Volkswagen Type 1.

In Brazil it was called the Fusca.

uplanderguy

Gung Ho WAS a comedy. The American side was exaggerated as well. But we can only bring up the parody of Americans here!

Remember what was going on only about 40 or maybe 50 years before that movie was made, in Japan.

ateixeira

That Jetta was a big step backwards, but it's cheaper and bigger and has sold very well here.

I think it has electric PS assist, too.

You can get a wagon TDI and it's still the previous model, and it's a much better vehicle in many ways.

ateixeira

Michael Keaton at his best.

Love the scene where he wiped the non-existent windshield.

Also when George Wendt (Norm from Cheers) hands him the cigarette lighter and tells him to avoid sushi.

Hysterical movie. Turned out to be very forward thinking, too, more than any of us thought at the time. Look how many transplants operate in the US today.

ateixeira

When Pontiac, Hummer and Saturn were killed off, at least current owners never had to question where they would have to take their vehicle in case it needed to be serviced. The same couldn't be said for Saab owners... until now

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/24/deal-brokered-to-get-saab-warranty-service-ho- nored-at-gm-dealers/

Took 'em long enough. Of course Saab's a hot mess...

fintail

Of course, go back that many years again, and look what was going on right on this continent. Not exactly sunshine and smiles all around - nobody has hands free of blood.

It was an amusing movie though, as mentioned, really gets in on the transplant manufacturing base. I remember the cars used were Argentinian-built Fiats, which is a fun coincidence with the Fiat presence today.

uplanderguy

True, particularly in the south, fintail, but I'm talking about beheadings of prisoners of war, slave labor, kamikazes--nothing like those things happened here. As in anything, there are degrees of 'bad'.

About five miles from our town was a German prisoner of war camp during WWII. The camp was called "Camp Reynolds" or sometimes known as the 'Shenango Depot' of some sort. I have heard some people say that on Saturday nights they marched the German soldiers into town and folks would spit or sometimes throw rocks (terrible, but it's not like there were a bunch of rocks to be had downtown), but it's not exactly like what was happening in Japan or Germany at the same time.

Growing up in a small town in the northeast, I never heard or experienced anything approaching racism, although as a Caucasian, I wouldn't have I guess although we knew African-Americans in town and treated them as we wished to be treated--obviously.

When I lived in Georgia in the mid'80's, I experienced dislike for "Yankees"--although I could just chuckle about it.

BTW, forgot to mention--in Enterprise's lot this a.m. when I picked up the Jetta, there was what I'd guess was a late '70's or early '80's M-B 220D, light yellowish in color, sooty on the back and a bumper sticker that read "Eat My Soot!". The guy who took care of me inside said it was an employee's car.

robr2

That Jetta was a big step backwards, but it's cheaper and bigger and has sold very well here.

To enthusiasts, it was a step backward. To those that buy cars, it was a huge step forward. IIRC, Jetta sales jumped dramatically - just like the new Passat is doing now.

uplanderguy

We are spoiled with automatic headlights, even in my Cobalt. I had to warn my wife about the Jetta not having them before she left to pick up our daughter at driver's ed school (textbook only, thankfully, as we are in the midst of a blizzard here).

ateixeira

True, VW is growing like crazy.

fintail

I wasn't referring only to the south, either. Expansion dictated ethnic cleansing with many lives lost. And I won't even touch on the actions of so-called "allies". If one looks hard enough, everyone is a murderer. There's not a lot of room for a moral high ground if one looks at history in a complete picture. Murder is murder.

Amusing about those POWs that their grandchildren probably have a better quality of life than the grandchildren of the spitters and rock throwers. Oh how things change.

220D would be a real oldie, I think that model was gone by around 1974. Light yellow is a good period color for it. Painfully slow car, almost too slow for modern traffic, and a little deferred maintenance can make them smoky and loud. But, it will probably still be around when today's new cars are gone.

busiris

We are spoiled with automatic headlights, even in my Cobalt.

LOL!

When my younger daughter traded her 2002 Beetle for her 2009 Versa, she lost her auto headlights (but got far more utility and a much better radio and sound system, cruise, etc.).

To hear her complain about no auto headlight option, you would have thought the Versa didn't have an engine. BTW, she's the one that picked the Versa, so she couldn't blame me for the loss...

When I was her age, I was lucky to have power steering.

My, how time changes expectations...

fintail

I'll admit I like the new Passat. It's not bad looking. Funny that it has kind of evolved into kind of a Camcord/Taurus/Impala competitor...I might pick it over any of those, depending on how the Accord performs.

busiris

I wasn't referring only to the south, either. Expansion dictated ethnic cleansing with many lives lost. And I won't even touch on the actions of so-called "allies". If one looks hard enough, everyone is a murderer. There's not a lot of room for a moral high ground if one looks at history in a complete picture. Murder is murder.


+ 1. Speak with some remaining US soldiers that were in WW II and you will find atrocities committed on both sides, mostly done in the name of expediency (we didn't have time or the resources to take prisoners, so we killed them). Both sides committed acts such as this.

The firebombing of cities like Dresden, Tokyo, Coventry, etc. was anything BUT an attempt to target military targets.

The idea of fighting a "civil" war is oxymoronic. Sometimes it's necessary, but no one should try to fool themselves by thinking their side has the moral high ground.

andre1969

I like the new Passat, too. It has a strong resemblance to the Impala IMO, but I think it manages to pull the look off a bit better.

I used to view the Passat as somewhat of a "premium compact"...a nice car, and perhaps worth the price premium, but still a bit small for my tastes. Now it seems more like a mainstream midsize, so I guess it's just more up my alley now. I haven't sat in one yet, but I've heard they're fairly roomy.

ateixeira

You can barely tell any of them apart. The TDI engine option is about the only thing that stands out.

ateixeira

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1302_2012_bmw_335i_2013_cadillac_ats_- mercedes_benz_c350_comparison/viewall.html

Not sure if we shared that link already....

uplanderguy

I say this respectfully, but...ethnic cleansing in the U.S. in the '40's?

uplanderguy

No doubt true, but history is on our side overall during that war.

When atrocities were committed, often (I have no illusion that it always happened, or even a lot), if it became public, court martials ensued. Not sure that was the case 'over there'.

While I was reminded of a race war at the base I talked about, by looking online--and I had heard of that and it is awful, although with 900K guys moving through that base en route to Europe, it doesn't reflect on our town I don't believe, which hit only 10K population during the war--I don't think that we have a 'Bataan Death March' to compare it to. Again, nothing is 'all or nothing', on either side.

busiris

There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders.

Sherry, Michael (September 10, 1989). The Rise of American Air Power: The Creation of Armageddon, p. 287 (from "LeMay's interview with Sherry," interview "after the war," p. 408 n. 108). Yale University Press. ISBN-13: 978-0300044140.


Killing Japanese didn't bother me very much at that time... I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal.... Every soldier thinks something of the moral aspects of what he is doing. But all war is immoral and if you let that bother you, you're not a good soldier.

On the morality of the firebombing campaign [1])

I'd like to see a more aggressive attitude on the part of the United States. That doesn't mean launching an immediate preventive war...
Mission with LeMay: My Story (1965), p. 559.

...Native annalists may look sadly back from the future on that period when we had the atomic bomb and the Russians didn't. Or when the Russians had aquired (through connivance and treachery of Westerns with warped minds) the atomic bomb - and yet still didn't have any stockpile of the weapons. That was the era when we might have destroyed Russia completely and not even skinned our elbows doing it.
Mission with LeMay: My Story (1965), p. 560-561.

Selected quotes from Curtis LeMay, commander. US air forces, Japan, WW II.


-I don't think that we have a 'Bataan Death March' to compare it to. Again, nothing is 'all or nothing', on either side.

No, we had firebombing, which killed a helluva lot more civilians than the Bataan death march.

The point is, if man "A" kills 100 people, and man "B" kills 100,000, they're both still murderers.

The moral "high ground" is determined completely from one's own personal perspective.

I agree that our participation in WW II was needed and necessary, but we should never feel we were the "good guys" in the white hats.

fintail

I never claimed ethnic cleansing in the US in the 40s. But go back a few generations from that point, and yes, plenty of it on this continent. Or in the 40s, plenty of it sponsored by our actions and our dollars. Nobody has a closet free of skeletons. No room for moral high ground. Keeping one's nose up in the air about the actions of others can come back to haunt people.

fintail

It's a handsome look - more angular than the other cars, which makes it look more substantial, and with the right trim, more expensive, to my eyes anyway. It would have to be diesel to get me to buy, but it would definitely be on my short list if I wanted a big mainstream sedan. Being built in the US for NA tastes probably makes it less troublesome than previous models, too.

busiris

I never claimed ethnic cleansing in the US in the 40s. But go back a few generations from that point, and yes, plenty of it on this continent. Or in the 40s, plenty of it sponsored by our actions and our dollars. Nobody has a closet free of skeletons. No room for moral high ground. Keeping one's nose up in the air about the actions of others can come back to haunt people.

Yep!

The US did most of its domestic ethnic cleansing in the 1870-80's.

And, growing up in the South, I can attest to it not being any cakewalk for anyone of a non-Caucasian makeup.

fintail

Or fool themselves that by looking at what their side killed during a specific timeframe, that they are less criminal. Can't limit things to a specific decade, humanity hasn't changed all that much in the past few centuries. Everyone is criminal, which means, IMO, everyone should be able to move on. The only determining factor in being a war criminal or not is being on the winning side.

uplanderguy

It was war. Thank God we interceded, or things would be waaayyyyy different now I'm afraid (although of course, who would actually know?).

I still believe historians are on our side, and it's been written about ad nauseum. LeMay may have felt the way he did as he saw the Japanese invasion as 'starting it'.

We'll agree to disagree.

I remember when Curtis LeMay was the VP running mate of George Wallace in '68. That's a bit of a scary thought.

fintail

If we want to look at things that way, we can always say the British were worse than us. And they've pretty much lost their GM brand now, too :shades:

uplanderguy

I'm glad I didn't live in Britain in the '40's. As a culture and country, their leadership then was not about conquering. For full disclosure, I'm German on both sides, and my wife grew up in Frankenmuth, MI--a town whose tourism is still based on its German roots!

What was Britain's GM brand?

fintail

Today they are about being conquered. Another couple generations and it will all be gone. People lament the decline of the US - they have fallen 100x harder.

They have/had Vauxhall. Today little of it is British made, IIRC, and all German designed (kind of like British Fords). If we want to talk about war stuff, the Germans have conquered the British automotive landscape without a shot being fired :shades:

busiris

I'm glad I didn't live in Britain in the '40's. As a culture and country, their leadership then was not about conquering

No, it wasn't about conquering, it was all about keeping what had already been conquered.

Really, not much difference in the end.

busiris

Agreed.

There's a reason why someone coined the phrase "History is written by the winner".

uplanderguy

Sorry, I don't understand this analogy, but I think I better back off before Steve sends me a nasty email.

fintail...I thought 'Vauxhall' but then I thought, 'nah, that's Australian'. With more thought I know that 'Holden' is Australia's GM brand.

uplanderguy

I'm not aware of any books even being written by European authors that do anything else but label the Allies the 'winner'. I have heard that in Japan, Pearl Harbor is not taught. Don't know if that's BS or not though.